VijayJ
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:12 pm

I have seen reports that their cargo operation has expanded significantly in the past couple of years.
 
sunking737
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:38 pm

SY has been known for carefully planned expansion, since the beginning.
"Don't believe it unless its parked on the ramp, or printed in the schedule...SUBJECT TO CHANGE"

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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:53 pm

InselMotherFokk wrote:
So if All of us here all heard good things (Throug hthe various reviews and tales in this thread), we have to assume they're making money from satisfied customers: however why haven't we seen expansion if nothing but good comes out of this little airline?



This is the most recent news article that I was able to pull up about the airline. In my opinion, if there were any serious doubts about the financial health of the airline, the 5 year pact that was approved by the pilots almost 1 year ago, would never have happened and they would still be at the bargaining table.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... 2Y1t25ACzg
 
jfkflyer
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:23 am

Wow. Has SY increased any schedules at all? what other smallish airlines can SY compare to?
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F9Animal
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:48 am

InselMotherFokk wrote:
So if All of us here all heard good things (Throug hthe various reviews and tales in this thread), we have to assume they're making money from satisfied customers: however why haven't we seen expansion if nothing but good comes out of this little airline?


They have expanded, but very slowly. I don't think they have the business plan to be a dominating carrier, or rule the world mentality. My guess is, they are making plenty of money, likely putting it away for rainy days, and continued slow growth. If Sun Country wasn't doing well, I doubt we would see the route map the way it is.

It would be awesome to see them grow faster, but they seem to have a happy place. Their fares are also pretty good, and their First Class upgrade prices are a no brainer.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:49 am

InselMotherFokk wrote:
So if All of us here all heard good things (Throug hthe various reviews and tales in this thread), we have to assume they're making money from satisfied customers: however why haven't we seen expansion if nothing but good comes out of this little airline?


How are you defining expansion? SY has added destinations from MSP this year, so I interpret that as expansion.
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:04 pm

Talk about good timing! Here's an article that appeared today on the website of the Minneapolis/St. Paul Business Journal. CEO Zarir Erani talks about future plans for Sun Country.

http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... eyond.html
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:06 am

They are.

They don't do anything specifically unique, but no one else does all things they do.

Price everything per leg (allows you to mix F and Y on same booking)
F is affordable: typically $150 - $300 per leg premium
maintain static fares, even at last minute
fly from a desirable secondary terminal (at MSP hub)
NOT an LCC - service comparable or better than legacies (IFE and seat power aside)
offers legit FF rewards, usable for partial or full fares (returns 7.5 - 9% on $ spend), and points can be pooled for redemption (up to 10 accounts)
positive, friendly GA/FA/crews
excellent food in F, very passable BoB in Y
quality beach vacation packages which includes checked bag and ground transport
serves major business destinations like JFK, DCA, LAX, SEA, SFO, etc.

Every time I'm forced to fly WN (thankfully not too often), I think how much better SY is.
Maybe best of all for MSP based travelers, SY really keeps DL fares in check for all competitive routes (which is just about all of SY's).

Every city should have its own SY. Best US carrier, IMO.
 
shankly
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:17 am

jfkflyer wrote:
So if All of us here all heard good things (Throug hthe various reviews and tales in this thread), we have to assume they're making money from satisfied customers: however why haven't we seen expansion if nothing but good comes out of this little airline?


If Havard taught "just be good at what you are good at and don'y worry about expansion" the world would be a better place. Many a great little airline has chased expansion for its own sake and ended up as history.
L1011 - P F M
 
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:20 am

jfkflyer wrote:
Sun country truly is in a league of its own. Who would take over sun country?


Why this odd obsession in the US of removing choice?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:12 am

SY got lucky with their decision regarding Cuba. They were awarded the slots. Didn't use them right away. Even got an extension, and most likely won't use them now since everyone else is pulling out.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
tphuang
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:20 am

[email protected] wrote:
jfkflyer wrote:
Sun country truly is in a league of its own. Who would take over sun country?


Why this odd obsession in the US of removing choice?

Depending on the airline taking over, there may not be removing of choice at all.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:46 am

The relationship with HV seems very good, they operate each others aircraft in the high-low and low-high seasons for each airline. I've flown sun country planes loads of times as a Dutchmen. Does anyone know how many planes cross the pond each year?

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OSL777FLYER
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Although I have never flown them, everyone I know who has, loves them. They offer very competitive first class fares compared to their competitors. They also make use of a "partnership" with Transavia and Tuifly/Thomson, which are charter carriers where they "borrow" their aircraft during the winter season which is slower for them.

The only negative thing I have heard in recent years are from Sun Country pilots, who claim that they are the lowest paid 737 pilots in the U.S.

Anybody know if that has changed?
 
Flighty
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Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:03 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
Excellent airline and generally good staff. Loved flying with them out of the Humphrey terminal a few times. Seems to me that staying small and niche-like has helped them throughout the years. My guess is that the leisure-heavy markets out of MSP, especially Mexico, are easy for them to cater to with low prices, especially when the flights are packaged with hotels. They remind me a lot of Thomas Cook. That makes SY very unique in the States; we still tend to fly the legacies when going on vacation, and Americans still lag behind their European counterparts when it comes to purchasing packages. They often take shorter trips, and that can make it hard for the package industry to guarantee occupancy.


Your comment that "staying small and niche-like has helped them throughout the years" is spot-on. Conventional wisdom states that SY should grow and pursue alliances. People always exaggerate the rosy upside of mindless expansion. Without looking at the downsides. SY has a fairly low risk business strategy that makes money. People tend to underrate businesses like that.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:16 pm

TUSDawg23 wrote:
I don't see them as an acquisition target because they really don't hold anything of value to another airline in my opinion.


They put some price pressure on flights to/from MSP. Eliminating that is worth something to at least one major airline.

Hint: Southwest didn't buy Airtran because it wanted a bunch of 717s and a hub in ATL. As proven by their subsequent dismantling of it. What they primarily wanted to do, IMHO, is eliminate competition. And they somehow convinced the DOJ that higher fares and less competition were in the public interest. (The laughable "network benefits" argument.)
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:27 pm

OSL777FLYER wrote:
Although I have never flown them, everyone I know who has, loves them. They offer very competitive first class fares compared to their competitors. They also make use of a "partnership" with Transavia and Tuifly/Thomson, which are charter carriers where they "borrow" their aircraft during the winter season which is slower for them.

The only negative thing I have heard in recent years are from Sun Country pilots, who claim that they are the lowest paid 737 pilots in the U.S.

Anybody know if that has changed?


Though their pilots received a significant raise with the new contract in 2015, it is likely that they are still the lowest paid 737 pilots. Having said that, **somebody** has to be the lowest paid, and in return, SY pilots have the opportunity to live in a high-standard, low-cost of living, mid sized city. I perceive that nights away from home are few. For a pilot wanting some semblance of a normal family life, I would think SY has some appeal, despite the lesser pay. I've never heard of them having unusual difficulty in attracting or retaining pilots. Obviously, 80k or a 120k goes a lot further in MSP than SFO, ORD or elsewhere.

This is only my view as a customer, so forgive me if I am off. Personally, I'd be happy for them if they were the highest paid, but hopefully its a happy compromise for them. I make a similar choice, in my profession.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:53 pm

wjcandee wrote:
TUSDawg23 wrote:
I don't see them as an acquisition target because they really don't hold anything of value to another airline in my opinion.


They put some price pressure on flights to/from MSP. Eliminating that is worth something to at least one major airline.

Hint: Southwest didn't buy Airtran because it wanted a bunch of 717s and a hub in ATL. As proven by their subsequent dismantling of it. What they primarily wanted to do, IMHO, is eliminate competition. And they somehow convinced the DOJ that higher fares and less competition were in the public interest. (The laughable "network benefits" argument.)


Delta and Northwest before them could have aggressively targeted SY, but seems to have never done so. I think in the current environment, Delta tolerates them (mostly ignores, but obviously price matches which hurts SY far more than DL) mostly to "ingratiate" and not alienate itself to the MSP base crowd.

I hypothesize that SY generally tries to avoid direct solo competition with DL. If you examine their route map, you'll see that most year round US domestic routes overlap not just with DL, but also with AS, F9, UA, AA, WN, thus the price pressure on DL is not just from them. Many of the routes competing only with DL are seasonal (such as PSP) , under-served, or Int'l beach packages where DL isn't trying that hard (themselves forcing an ATL connection).

I think SY has just been very smart about staying under the Big-Boy radar, and this goes back thru multiple owners, profitable or not.
I would hope that any future attempt by DL to kill off SY (if it were to happen) would be recognized by the DOJ for precisely what it would be. There are can hardly be any serious arguments about "network enhancement", "economies of scale" or other silliness.
SY is a throwback to the best of 1980's US aviation.
 
packcheer
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:02 pm

In terms of expansion, maybe they can add more charter work (if fleet availability allows), but if not, just keep doing what they are doing! I had not flown Sun Country before, but this March I had about 8 charters on them. The comfort, the service, and the staff personalities were fantastic. We didn't pick them since it was NCAA travel for the basketball tournaments, but everyone in our group loved it!
Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
 
Zidane
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Re:8 Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:33 pm

I think an expansion in the Caribbean would do them well. New and upcoming destinations like UVF could really benefit from their service.
 
wingnutmn
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:56 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
OSL777FLYER wrote:
Although I have never flown them, everyone I know who has, loves them. They offer very competitive first class fares compared to their competitors. They also make use of a "partnership" with Transavia and Tuifly/Thomson, which are charter carriers where they "borrow" their aircraft during the winter season which is slower for them.

The only negative thing I have heard in recent years are from Sun Country pilots, who claim that they are the lowest paid 737 pilots in the U.S.

Anybody know if that has changed?


Though their pilots received a significant raise with the new contract in 2015, it is likely that they are still the lowest paid 737 pilots. Having said that, **somebody** has to be the lowest paid, and in return, SY pilots have the opportunity to live in a high-standard, low-cost of living, mid sized city. I perceive that nights away from home are few. For a pilot wanting some semblance of a normal family life, I would think SY has some appeal, despite the lesser pay. I've never heard of them having unusual difficulty in attracting or retaining pilots. Obviously, 80k or a 120k goes a lot further in MSP than SFO, ORD or elsewhere.

This is only my view as a customer, so forgive me if I am off. Personally, I'd be happy for them if they were the highest paid, but hopefully its a happy compromise for them. I make a similar choice, in my profession.


What part of the Twin Cities is "Low-Cost of living? I've been here a long time, and haven't found it. Our taxes are the 3rd highest behind CA and NY, housing is outragous, and all expenses are increasin year after year. Being the lowest paid is hard. Especially when you are trying to get first officers to leave regional CA pay to start over at regional FO pay to fly a 737. I bet first year Regional FO's make more with retention bonuses than SY first year FOs.

Wingnut
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
 
wrongwayup
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:58 am

Sun Country's onboard product is great. Most of it is "local" to the MSP area including a couple great microbrews. Most significantly, the cabin crews actually seem to *care*.

In other news, Sun Country's CEO Zarir Erani has just been let go from the position...

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 432744483/
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:56 am

wingnutmn wrote:

What part of the Twin Cities is "Low-Cost of living? I've been here a long time, and haven't found it. Our taxes are the 3rd highest behind CA and NY, housing is outragous, and all expenses are increasin year after year. Being the lowest paid is hard. Especially when you are trying to get first officers to leave regional CA pay to start over at regional FO pay to fly a 737. I bet first year Regional FO's make more with retention bonuses than SY first year FOs.

Wingnut


well, the world is a nuanced place and everything is relative. Being that this is a discussion about aviation and pilot pay, the relativity is where a 737 pilot might realistically live (and not commute, which is part of my quality of life point). Consider a partial list of cities where these pilots are based:

New York
Boston
Baltimore
Wash DC/NoVa
Atlanta
Miami
Houston
Dallas
Chicago
Detroit
Denver
Phoenix
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Seattle

Few of those metropolis's are clearer cheaper than MSP, and many far more expensive.
But we can agree to disagree. What I know is that 87% of the SY pilots voted in favor of the contract in 2015, which by modern standards of contentious labor/management pay disputes is pretty overwhelming.

I excerpted the text of two posts on a Sun Country thread on airlinepilotforums.com , which seems to give a reasonable pilots-eye view of things:

"Even though its a recent post, this is worth seconding. As its been mentioned before, you wont find legacy pay, but the QOL is great, the flying is usually really fun, its a small community and the people are fantastic. I think for the MSP pilot its a great spot to be. I cant comment on life as a commuter, but as a homer its a pretty sweet "local" gig flying 737s with some potential for the future."

"The pros:
3 year upgrade
Growing airline
A chance to get out of the fee for departure model and work for your own airline.
B737NG
A livable wage (Its not United, and still low, but after 2 years most FOs are in the $85-$100k range. Captains are in the $100-$200k + depending on seniority.
Hometown airline culture
Ability to credit 100-120+ hrs as an FO in most months
INTL and ETOPS charters
Caribbean and Mexico layovers
Good Per Diem ($500-$800 a month for layover lines)
150% for open time pickup above 75hrs.
Turn Lines are 17-21 days off. Layover lines are around 14-16 days off


Cons:
11/12 min days off
No min day pay
Scheduling flexibility is poor
401k is 6%, goes to 8%
$20,000 training contract
Not entirely commuter friendly
Lines fluctuate based on the season. A high number of "turns" in the fall and winter and lots of 4-5 days in the spring and summer.


Most people like it, even those that leave enjoyed their time for the most part. It was just time for them to move on to greener pastures.

Most people know nothing about us, but it is a really good place to work and one of the better kept secrets in the industry.

If you don't have an offer anywhere else, you should seriously think about flying here. I think you'll like it, good luck."
 
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:45 am

packcheer wrote:
In terms of expansion, maybe they can add more charter work (if fleet availability allows), but if not, just keep doing what they are doing! I had not flown Sun Country before, but this March I had about 8 charters on them. The comfort, the service, and the staff personalities were fantastic. We didn't pick them since it was NCAA travel for the basketball tournaments, but everyone in our group loved it!

The athletic department at my university charters SY for events that are further than one state over.

Our football team used them in December for the playoffs and since some of the players were missing commencement as a result, the crew let them do their own commencement ceremony in-flight. It was even featured on ESPN.
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Scooter
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:56 am

I usually fly to MSP once a year from SAN (I've got family there), and Sun Country is my airline of choice for that route. As a matter of fact I just flew SAN-MSP-SAN over the last few days on SY, and as usual, it was a great experience. I'm definitely a Sun Country fan!
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mariner
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:55 am

jfkflyer wrote:
So if All of us here all heard good things (Throug hthe various reviews and tales in this thread), we have to assume they're making money from satisfied customers: however why haven't we seen expansion if nothing but good comes out of this little airline?


Because some of the a.net assumptions might be wrong?

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 432744483/

"Sun Country Airlines CEO ousted; owner Davis steps in as he seeks successor for Erani

The chairman of Sun Country Airlines has fired its president and chief executive following several challenging months for the Eagan-based carrier.

The Minnesota airline has failed to meet monthly forecasts for more than a year, and its financial results reflect that struggle. Sun Country's 2016 operating income was $16 million, a 41 percent decline over the previous year. Its operating revenue dropped more than 1.3 percent to $511 million, according to its 2016 fiscal filing with the federal government. Davis said Wednesday the company's as-yet-unpublished first- and second-quarter results for 2017 are showing improvement."


http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/n ... irman.html

"Sun Country Airlines removes current CEO, chairman steps in as interim leader

There doesn't appear to be any bad blood - the ousted CEO is to continue to work for the owning family - it would seem the airline just isn't making enough money - no decent return on the investment.

mariner
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Elementalism
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:01 pm

I prefer Sun Country and will fly them when possible. DL will usually match Sun Country but who wants to go through terminal 1 security when there is an option for terminal 2? It is so much more pleasant to fly out of terminal 2 compared to terminal 1. I'd even pay a premium to avoid the mess. And Sun Country typically is put into terminals at bigger airports that are not as busy. JFK we were in a terminal that had very little traffic. In DFW they are put into the international terminal. Very easy to get to the gate with minimal hassle.

One of my conspiracies regarding Sun Country and why NWA or DL havent bought them out. Sun Country is a driver of Terminal 2 expansion. Terminal 2 expansion allows DL to argue moving competition to terminal 2. Allowing DL to have terminal 1 in its entirety.

MSP had a sizeable charter presence in the 80s and 90s during the winter months. Sun Country was part of that with their 727s and DC-10.
 
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MSPSXMFLIER
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:30 am

Yes, I think Sun Country is definitely something special, as far as airlines go.

Service often goes well above and beyond the norm....from baggage check-in at Terminal 2 (MSP) to the gate agents to the plane's flight crew. Everyone really seems to enjoy their job and interacting with passengers. I often find the reverse to be true when flying Delta. I travel first class on their flights and the product and experience they offer puts Delta to shame, when comparing flights on routes that both carriers serve. I fly Sun Country 3-4 times per year and have yet to ever see any empty seats in first class. People are quite willing to pay whatever the ticket price is, to enjoy a very pleasant experience.

I do think it's quite amazing how Sun Country has been able to 'rise from the ashes' after such setbacks as filing for bankruptcy in December 2001 and again in October 2008. Having to deal with relentless pressure from Northwest Airlines, who barely even tolerated the airline and knew how to go only so far and not provoke the MAC (Metropolitan Airports Commission) into investigating and/or punishing Northwest for predatory moves. A protracted and somewhat uncomfortable contract negotiation with the pilots union, in 2014-15, which ultimately resulted in quite a good deal for the pilots (as some previous comments spell out).

I hope that they just keep doing what their doing, it's proven to be successful for them. I'm more than happy to give them my business as often as I can.
 
burnsie28
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Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:21 am

flyguy89 wrote:
Anybody know how many flights they operate per day at MSP on average, or what their peak-day operation is like?



For the last week in July (historically one of the busiest travel times).

July 23- 24 arrivals/ 29 departures
July 24- 29 arrivals/ 28 departures
July 25- 28 arrivals/ 27 departures
July 26- 26 arrivals/ 27 departures
July 27- 26 arrivals/ 26 departures
July 28- 28 arrivals/ 28 departures
July 29- 27 arrivals/ 23 departures
 
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SteveXC500
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:46 am

The number of arrivals and departures is just a few above Southwest at MSP, but the number of cities served sets them apart at Terminal 2. Of course, in the winter, it's a completely different story.
 
MNgopher
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:44 am

A league of their own? Probably not, but they fill a nice niche in the Twin Cities.

Yes, their pilots are among the lowest paid of the 737 pilots in the US. They raised their pay significantly a few years ago, but that still doesn't bring them up near the top. As others have pointed out, it brings them flying a 737 out of a good hub and a good quality of life if you want to live here in MSP. Another poster made the claim MSP is expensive. Clearly they need to get out more - compared to many, many places that are hubs for 737 operators MSP is reasonably priced. Inexpensive no, but in relative terms a pretty good deal.

They are an excellent overflow valve for the jump in spring break traffic from this area, and they do a ton of sports charter work for university teams.

They have raised themselves from the ashes several times - pretty amazing they are still around!

All in all, I do enjoy flying them when it works, but the lack of frequency on some of their routes is what makes it difficult sometimes.
 
stlgph
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Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:51 am

burnsie28 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Anybody know how many flights they operate per day at MSP on average, or what their peak-day operation is like?



For the last week in July (historically one of the busiest travel times).

July 23- 24 arrivals/ 29 departures
July 24- 29 arrivals/ 28 departures
July 25- 28 arrivals/ 27 departures
July 26- 26 arrivals/ 27 departures
July 27- 26 arrivals/ 26 departures
July 28- 28 arrivals/ 28 departures
July 29- 27 arrivals/ 23 departures


Keep in mind Sun Country's winter schedule is far far busier than the summer schedule.
In the winter season, the mid to high 30 range in terms of total daily departures from MSP is pretty common.
I believe, a couple of days in the past winter season, the schedule may have been up to 40 or more flights a few days during high peak times. That, of course, included something like 6 departures to Cancun.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Flighty
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:20 am

I am shocked their departure count is that small compared to their route map. They run an actual mainline airline on a miniature scale. That is no mean feat, and not just anybody can accomplish that. It is probably smaller than Delta's operation at Seattle (maybe a lot smaller?).
 
roadpilot
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:32 am

Flighty wrote:
I am shocked their departure count is that small compared to their route map. They run an actual mainline airline on a miniature scale. That is no mean feat, and not just anybody can accomplish that. It is probably smaller than Delta's operation at Seattle (maybe a lot smaller?).


You also have to remember they run a pretty robust charter program. You can loosely call GPT and IFP "hubs" for their casino flying and they do quite a bit of DOD and college sports flying.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:52 am

Flighty wrote:
I am shocked their departure count is that small compared to their route map. They run an actual mainline airline on a miniature scale. That is no mean feat, and not just anybody can accomplish that. It is probably smaller than Delta's operation at Seattle (maybe a lot smaller?).


many of those routes are seasonal, but still - you are exactly right. Its one of the interesting and unique things about them (at least, for this era). For them to stick around doing this in a NW/DL fortress hub is, I think, really amazing.
 
CanesFan
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:41 pm

jfkflyer wrote:
So if All of us here all heard good things (Throug hthe various reviews and tales in this thread), we have to assume they're making money from satisfied customers: however why haven't we seen expansion if nothing but good comes out of this little airline?


They have been expanding, albeit at such a cautiously slow rate it is hard to notice, which is probably a good thing.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:49 pm

Flighty wrote:
I am shocked their departure count is that small compared to their route map. They run an actual mainline airline on a miniature scale. That is no mean feat, and not just anybody can accomplish that. It is probably smaller than Delta's operation at Seattle (maybe a lot smaller?).


It's a fraction of DL in SEA. It's probably closer to AA or WN in SEA in departures. I would have guessed 60-80 departures/day based on their route map. Good for them.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
trex8
Posts: 5338
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:19 pm

jfkflyer wrote:
I wonder if they'll ever order larger aircraft or new aircraft outright. The embraer 190 family would be ideal for them

They had DC10s in the past, 10 across. Flew them to LA from MSP. Lucky I was 30 lbs lighter in those days!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4243
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:14 am

trex8 wrote:
jfkflyer wrote:
I wonder if they'll ever order larger aircraft or new aircraft outright. The embraer 190 family would be ideal for them

They had DC10s in the past, 10 across. Flew them to LA from MSP. Lucky I was 30 lbs lighter in those days!


My first job was with Signature Flight Support in Vegas. I was assigned to clean Sun Country planes. Absolutely loved it! All DC-10's and 727's. They really took good care of their planes and it was a pleasure to work there.

Sun Country is indeed in a league of their own. I really appreciate their cautious growth, and their operation. I know they nearly failed a few times, but always found a way to survive. I am a huge fan of these smaller airlines, and I am always saddened when one of them fails. I personally hope the merger mania is finally over. I miss the vast variety of airlines to be able to choose from. So, I am going to raise my glass to the hopes and continued success of this beautiful little airline. I know it has some amazing employees, and some very faithful customers.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
FlyHappy
Posts: 1047
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:26 am

F9Animal wrote:
trex8 wrote:
jfkflyer wrote:
I wonder if they'll ever order larger aircraft or new aircraft outright. The embraer 190 family would be ideal for them

They had DC10s in the past, 10 across. Flew them to LA from MSP. Lucky I was 30 lbs lighter in those days!


My first job was with Signature Flight Support in Vegas. I was assigned to clean Sun Country planes. Absolutely loved it! All DC-10's and 727's. They really took good care of their planes and it was a pleasure to work there.

Sun Country is indeed in a league of their own. I really appreciate their cautious growth, and their operation. I know they nearly failed a few times, but always found a way to survive. I am a huge fan of these smaller airlines, and I am always saddened when one of them fails. I personally hope the merger mania is finally over. I miss the vast variety of airlines to be able to choose from. So, I am going to raise my glass to the hopes and continued success of this beautiful little airline. I know it has some amazing employees, and some very faithful customers.


Is trex8 correct about the 10 across? My first SY flight was DC-10 LAS-MSP, and my hazy recollection was a 2-5-2, but then again, it was Vegas...... ;)
 
TUSDawg23
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:14 am

burnsie28 wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Anybody know how many flights they operate per day at MSP on average, or what their peak-day operation is like?



For the last week in July (historically one of the busiest travel times).

July 23- 24 arrivals/ 29 departures
July 24- 29 arrivals/ 28 departures
July 25- 28 arrivals/ 27 departures
July 26- 26 arrivals/ 27 departures
July 27- 26 arrivals/ 26 departures
July 28- 28 arrivals/ 28 departures
July 29- 27 arrivals/ 23 departures


And this is part of why DL doesn't consider them much of a threat. I too thought they had more departures than that. SY doesn't have a robust enough network to capture many biz pax so DL can retain a pretty large chunk of the pie while giving up a little to SY in terms of leisure pax.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:32 am

The scheduling dept for SY has it down to a science. They make an extremely efficient use of aircraft. As long as they stay the course they should be just fine. Too bad they didn't get the approval for service to PTY.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4243
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:32 pm

FlyHappy wrote:
F9Animal wrote:
trex8 wrote:
They had DC10s in the past, 10 across. Flew them to LA from MSP. Lucky I was 30 lbs lighter in those days!


My first job was with Signature Flight Support in Vegas. I was assigned to clean Sun Country planes. Absolutely loved it! All DC-10's and 727's. They really took good care of their planes and it was a pleasure to work there.

Sun Country is indeed in a league of their own. I really appreciate their cautious growth, and their operation. I know they nearly failed a few times, but always found a way to survive. I am a huge fan of these smaller airlines, and I am always saddened when one of them fails. I personally hope the merger mania is finally over. I miss the vast variety of airlines to be able to choose from. So, I am going to raise my glass to the hopes and continued success of this beautiful little airline. I know it has some amazing employees, and some very faithful customers.


Is trex8 correct about the 10 across? My first SY flight was DC-10 LAS-MSP, and my hazy recollection was a 2-5-2, but then again, it was Vegas...... ;)


Oh wow!!! That is going to require some digging in my brain!! I am pretty sure it was 2, 5, 2. Of course I worked for United later in life, and spent a ton of time on UA's DC-10's. Could be wrong on SY DC-10 configs.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
badgervor
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:58 pm

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:57 pm

F9Animal wrote:
FlyHappy wrote:
F9Animal wrote:

Is trex8 correct about the 10 across? My first SY flight was DC-10 LAS-MSP, and my hazy recollection was a 2-5-2, but then again, it was Vegas...... ;)


Oh wow!!! That is going to require some digging in my brain!! I am pretty sure it was 2, 5, 2. Of course I worked for United later in life, and spent a ton of time on UA's DC-10's. Could be wrong on SY DC-10 configs.


I flew the N153SY MKE-MCO in 1999 and it was 3-4-3 seating
 
CrawleyBen
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:22 am

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:16 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
They tried transatlantic flights to London a few years ago. Had a technical stop in Gander. If they want to venture into that market they need an aircraft with range to do that nonstop.


I remember dealing with those flights at LGW when they were operating. Seem to recall they did tend to depart/arrive late on numerous occasions due to technical issues with the aircraft (could happen to any airline I know). Is there any realistic prospect of them operating the London route again in future does anyone think?

Cheers

Ben
 
wrongwayup
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 pm

Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:50 am

Sun Country has just announced that Jude Bricker will be the new CEO, succeeding Zarir Erani. Prior to this role, Jude was COO at Allegiant Travel Company.
 
af773atmsp
Posts: 2357
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 1:37 am

Re: Is sun country in a league of its own?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:13 am

CrawleyBen wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
They tried transatlantic flights to London a few years ago. Had a technical stop in Gander. If they want to venture into that market they need an aircraft with range to do that nonstop.


I remember dealing with those flights at LGW when they were operating. Seem to recall they did tend to depart/arrive late on numerous occasions due to technical issues with the aircraft (could happen to any airline I know). Is there any realistic prospect of them operating the London route again in future does anyone think?

Cheers

Ben


I wish, but those flights were mostly for proving flights to gain a charter contract. I'm sure someone here knows more detail.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
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jplatts
Posts: 2782
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Re: Is Sun Country in a league of its own?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:23 am

Sun Country is one of two U.S. airlines that only operate Boeing 737 airplanes since Southwest Airlines is the only other airline in the U.S. that operates only Boeing 737 aircraft. Additionally, Sun Country is also the only airline in the U.S. to have a fleet that consists of only Next Generation 737 planes since Southwest Airlines has earlier generation 737-300 planes in its fleet and since Southwest Airlines will be operating 737 MAX 8 planes starting on October 1st.

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