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TWA1985
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Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:29 pm

Hey Guys,

Let me begin my saying that this is purely a rumor that was heard by a Delta flight attendant at ORD. I asked him if the airline planned on closing its Chicago flight attendant base and he responded, "To the contray. Delta is only going to get bigger in Chicago." He went on to say that he's heard from multiple sources that in addition to the seasonal Paris flights, Delta plans on beginning Chicago to Asia service late next year. He didn't have specifics, but said to "mark his words." Any thoughts on this? With Delta hinting at acquiring more gates with the ORD refurbish/new terminal build, this may not be so far fetched.
Last edited by TWA1985 on Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:31 pm

Is it conceivable that, with a JV with KE, DL might pick up some USA-ICN flying? Sure, but we're a long way from that. DL isn't going to play fifth wheel on ORD-TYO . . .
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winginit
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:35 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Any thoughts on this?


Yes - that Flight Attendant rumors are as absurd as ever.

Are we really going to start new threads every time a flight attendant or someone not even remotely tied to the industry speculates that a new route is in the cards? That's a daunting precedent.
 
UAL777UK
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:37 pm

Hmmm, will wait for hell to freeze over first before that comes to fruition!
 
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tlecam
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:38 pm

I can see them growing Chicago- that would be consistent with their strategy of adding flights in key business markets (e.g. ORD-BOS, ORD-RDU and others).

I would have guessed of several other places where they'd add Asia service before Chicago, however.
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a380787
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:39 pm

Just more sheep chest-thumping. Nothing to see here. DL is the airline that cannot figure out how to fly from NYC nonstop to East Asia in any form, own metal or JV, and yet they'll launch from ORD? Oh-gee-pleeez.
 
United1
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:39 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Hey Guys,

Let me begin my saying that this is purely a rumor that was heard by a Delta flight attendant at ORD. I asked him if the airline planned on closing its Chicago flight attendant base and he responded, "To the contray. Delta is only going to get bigger in Chicago." He went on to say that he's heard from multiple sources that in addition to the seasonal Paris flights, Delta plans on beginning Chicago to Asia service late next year. He didn't have specifics, but said to "mark his words." Any thoughts on this? With Delta hinting at acquiring more gates with the ORD refurbish/new terminal build, this may not be so far fetched.


To where would be my question?

There are no more slots avaliable for PVG or PEK service, TYO would be a bit of a bloodbath and besides DL is shrinking at NRT not growing, ICN might work IF they can patch things up with Korean. As for DL getting more gates the ORD terminal expansion program is years from creating more gates...


DL has 7 gates at ORD they are going to have to make due with those for a while.
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enilria
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:46 pm

United1 wrote:
To where would be my question?

There are no more slots avaliable for PVG or PEK service, TYO would be a bit of a bloodbath and besides DL is shrinking at NRT not growing, ICN might work IF they can patch things up with Korean.

Completely agree with that assessment. Perhaps they are just putting their code on KE's ICN-ORD if they haven't already? That would be consistent with the slow ice breaking with KE.
 
commavia
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:46 pm

Delta potentially adding a flight or two to SEA to connect with Asia? Sure.

Delta actually flying nonstop from ORD to Asia, particularly absent a JV with an Asian partner? I highly, highly doubt it.
 
United1
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:50 pm

enilria wrote:
United1 wrote:
To where would be my question?

There are no more slots avaliable for PVG or PEK service, TYO would be a bit of a bloodbath and besides DL is shrinking at NRT not growing, ICN might work IF they can patch things up with Korean.

Completely agree with that assessment. Perhaps they are just putting their code on KE's ICN-ORD if they haven't already? That would be consistent with the slow ice breaking with KE.


Quite possibly...no reason DL can't codeshare with all of their Asian partner airlines in Chicago. Using their own metal seems rather unlikely...
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OA412
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:54 pm

a380787 wrote:
Just more sheep chest-thumping. Nothing to see here. DL is the airline that cannot figure out how to fly from NYC nonstop to East Asia in any form, own metal or JV, and yet they'll launch from ORD? Oh-gee-pleeez.

It would be quite the feat if they figured out how to fly NYC to East Asia with a JV partner considering they don't have an East Asian JV partner...
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winginit
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:57 pm

OA412 wrote:
a380787 wrote:
Just more sheep chest-thumping. Nothing to see here. DL is the airline that cannot figure out how to fly from NYC nonstop to East Asia in any form, own metal or JV, and yet they'll launch from ORD? Oh-gee-pleeez.

It would be quite the feat if they figured out how to fly NYC to East Asia with a JV partner considering they don't have an East Asian JV partner...


Surely the equity partnership with MU checks that box even though they don't (and can't) have ATI. No? Is share ownership not the definition of a JV?
 
TWA1985
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:04 pm

Okay, so let me throw this out there then ... what if the rumor is hinting at an agreement with, say, KE, that is similar to the AF arrangement? KE would serve ICN during the peak season, with DL using their own metal the rest of the year. Just food for thought ...
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United1
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:04 pm

winginit wrote:
OA412 wrote:
a380787 wrote:
Just more sheep chest-thumping. Nothing to see here. DL is the airline that cannot figure out how to fly from NYC nonstop to East Asia in any form, own metal or JV, and yet they'll launch from ORD? Oh-gee-pleeez.

It would be quite the feat if they figured out how to fly NYC to East Asia with a JV partner considering they don't have an East Asian JV partner...


Surely the equity partnership with MU checks that box even though they don't (and can't) have ATI. No? Is share ownership not the definition of a JV?


Generaly share ownership is not a requirement for a JV...ATI is however as without it you cannot coordinate schedules or pricing.
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Sightseer
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:07 pm

Yeah, no. MU already flies to PVG, KE already flies to ICN, and DL is shrinking NRT. Any other cities would be beyond pointless.
 
Sightseer
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:09 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Okay, so let me throw this out there then ... what if the rumor is hinting at an agreement with, say, KE, that is similar to the AF arrangement? KE would serve ICN during the peak season, with DL using their own metal the rest of the year. Just food for thought ...


It could happen, but a lot of other dominoes would need to fall first, and a flight attendant wouldn't be privy to that process.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:10 pm

I don't see this materializing at all.
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raylee67
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:15 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
Okay, so let me throw this out there then ... what if the rumor is hinting at an agreement with, say, KE, that is similar to the AF arrangement? KE would serve ICN during the peak season, with DL using their own metal the rest of the year. Just food for thought ...

Only one problem. For those who knows Korean (I mean the people, not the airline), they are immensely loyal to their own country and to the airline that bears the name of the country. They would not care if this is a JV or anything. If it is not the blue KE plane they are getting on, they don't see this as a KE flight and the JV will lose the Korean business. KE has to serve the route year-round. Now, if the JV is to open a 2nd daily flight seasonally, that can be DL.

Outside of ICN, I don't see DL flying to anywhere in Asia from ORD. It would be suicide. DL would not have connectivity on both ends, while BOTH AA and UA have connectivity at ORD. Whether DL is flying to Japan, TPE, PEK or HKG from ORD, it would also be competing with Asian carriers with connectivity at BOTH ends of the route. Besides, to fly from ORD to anywhere beyond northeast Asia without payload penalties, the only plane DL can use in its fleet is the 777 and 77L. DL only has 18 of those going around and it doesn't have the luxury to deploy 2 out of 18 onto such an adventurous route (assuming daily service). DL would be far better off to deploy the 777 on Asia-ATL or even Asia-DTW routes.

In short, ORD-Asia non-stop is not going to happen with DL.
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lavalampluva
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:02 pm

DL will expand their service to Asia from DTW and MSP before ORD.
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ericm2031
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:11 pm

I think connecting ORD to LAX and SEA should be higher priority first. I feel at least one of them could be added just from trimming a flight here and there from their other ORD-hub flights as they can funnel some of it on the new flight. They're trying to be #1 in LA and probably want to do the same in SEA but both are pretty big gaps in coverage.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:14 pm

I could see it, but I think ORD-SEA/RDU/BOS would come ahead of it. Recall for many years NW operated ORD-NRT.
 
a380787
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:19 pm

Most options make very little sense for DL here :

ORD-PEK : Up against AA UA HU, although there's some MU+CZ feed at PEK end. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority though.
ORD-PVG : Up against AA UA MU, and duplicates MU service with no JV. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority that would've been better spent on things like ATL-PVG.
ORD-ICN : Up against KE OZ, and duplicates KE service with no JV. This route *marginally* makes sense if DL can ink JV with KE.
ORD-NRT : their NRT hub has been shrunk so much that NRT service makes very little sense at this point
ORD-HND : No route authority unless transferred from LAX or MSP, which won't ever happen
ORD-HKG : they can barely sustain SEA-HKG, a monopoly route with no nonstop competitor what-so-ever.
ORD-TPE : are you kidding me ?
 
usflyer123
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:51 pm

a380787 wrote:
Most options make very little sense for DL here :

ORD-PEK : Up against AA UA HU, although there's some MU+CZ feed at PEK end. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority though.
ORD-PVG : Up against AA UA MU, and duplicates MU service with no JV. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority that would've been better spent on things like ATL-PVG.
ORD-ICN : Up against KE OZ, and duplicates KE service with no JV. This route *marginally* makes sense if DL can ink JV with KE.
ORD-NRT : their NRT hub has been shrunk so much that NRT service makes very little sense at this point
ORD-HND : No route authority unless transferred from LAX or MSP, which won't ever happen
ORD-HKG : they can barely sustain SEA-HKG, a monopoly route with no nonstop competitor what-so-ever.
ORD-TPE : are you kidding me ?


that pretty much sums it. first they will add ORD-BOS,SEA and LAX. after that AMS and CDG and then MAYBE an asian route.
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piedmont762
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:19 pm

"ORD-NRT : their NRT hub has been shrunk so much that NRT service makes very little sense at this point"

So has United.
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:23 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
"ORD-NRT : their NRT hub has been shrunk so much that NRT service makes very little sense at this point"

So has United.

Yes, you are correct. Now compare DL's operations vs UA's at the other end of that route.
 
303dk
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:25 pm

Polot wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
"ORD-NRT : their NRT hub has been shrunk so much that NRT service makes very little sense at this point"

So has United.

Yes, you are correct. Now compare DL's operations vs UA's at the other end of that route.

But UA has ANA.

Not that this particular point matters. DL will not be flying ORD-Asia any time soon.
 
commavia
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:25 pm

Polot wrote:
Yes, you are correct. Now compare DL's operations vs UA's at the other end of that route.


... not to mention that United and AA, of course, have JV partner connecting hubs at the NRT end - which Delta doesn't.
 
TWA1985
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:45 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
a380787 wrote:
Most options make very little sense for DL here :

ORD-PEK : Up against AA UA HU, although there's some MU+CZ feed at PEK end. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority though.
ORD-PVG : Up against AA UA MU, and duplicates MU service with no JV. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority that would've been better spent on things like ATL-PVG.
ORD-ICN : Up against KE OZ, and duplicates KE service with no JV. This route *marginally* makes sense if DL can ink JV with KE.
ORD-NRT : their NRT hub has been shrunk so much that NRT service makes very little sense at this point
ORD-HND : No route authority unless transferred from LAX or MSP, which won't ever happen
ORD-HKG : they can barely sustain SEA-HKG, a monopoly route with no nonstop competitor what-so-ever.
ORD-TPE : are you kidding me ?


that pretty much sums it. first they will add ORD-BOS,SEA and LAX. after that AMS and CDG and then MAYBE an asian route.


Delta already operates ORD-CDG seasonally.
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DTWPurserBoy
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:46 pm

DL has Asia well covered out of DTW and MSP or through SEA. There would be no need to add ORD to the list unless it is through a JV.

Now I could give a good argument for ORD-AMS, ORD-LHR rather than Asia. But with the exchange rate between the Euro and Sterling against the dollar being so low it is a great market for US visitors to Europe. Plus the uncertainties of the Brexit make it highly unlikely that DL would devote aircraft and crews to aadditional international service out of ORD at this time.
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usflyer123
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:51 pm

TWA1985 wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
a380787 wrote:
Most options make very little sense for DL here :

ORD-PEK : Up against AA UA HU, although there's some MU+CZ feed at PEK end. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority though.
ORD-PVG : Up against AA UA MU, and duplicates MU service with no JV. Waste of PEK+PVG route authority that would've been better spent on things like ATL-PVG.
ORD-ICN : Up against KE OZ, and duplicates KE service with no JV. This route *marginally* makes sense if DL can ink JV with KE.
ORD-NRT : their NRT hub has been shrunk so much that NRT service makes very little sense at this point
ORD-HND : No route authority unless transferred from LAX or MSP, which won't ever happen
ORD-HKG : they can barely sustain SEA-HKG, a monopoly route with no nonstop competitor what-so-ever.
ORD-TPE : are you kidding me ?


that pretty much sums it. first they will add ORD-BOS,SEA and LAX. after that AMS and CDG and then MAYBE an asian route.


Delta already operates ORD-CDG seasonally.


sorry i meant year round.
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303dk
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:53 pm

DTWPurserBoy wrote:
DL has Asia well covered out of DTW and MSP or through SEA. There would be no need to add ORD to the list unless it is through a JV.

Now I could give a good argument for ORD-AMS, ORD-LHR rather than Asia. But with the exchange rate between the Euro and Sterling against the dollar being so low it is a great market for US visitors to Europe. Plus the uncertainties of the Brexit make it highly unlikely that DL would devote aircraft and crews to aadditional international service out of ORD at this time.


The already serve ORD-AMS and ORD-LHR with their JV partners.
 
a380787
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Re: Rumor: Delta to Start Chicago-Asia Service Next Year

Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:53 pm

DTWPurserBoy wrote:
DL has Asia well covered out of DTW and MSP or through SEA. There would be no need to add ORD to the list unless it is through a JV.

Now I could give a good argument for ORD-AMS, ORD-LHR rather than Asia. But with the exchange rate between the Euro and Sterling against the dollar being so low it is a great market for US visitors to Europe. Plus the uncertainties of the Brexit make it highly unlikely that DL would devote aircraft and crews to aadditional international service out of ORD at this time.


To add to that point, VS is already seasonal to ORD-LHR. ORD "feels" like a market that might be more receptive to VS metal to LHR versus a DL one.

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