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LAXdude1023
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:58 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

Absolutely not. UA has gone on record to say SFO and DEN are getting the most new mainline planes to the hubs. Well which of all the hubs is shrinking the most? IAH.


Im sorry, what are you responding to? You didn't address one thing I wrote.


You aren't asking anything, you are just rambling on about Houston. I said in a previous post that UA isn't going to open a hub in Florida.


Have you looked at where IAH has shrunk? Most of what they have gotten rid of were oil based routes or reductions in places that fed oil based routes.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
LH491
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:09 pm

TPA-EZE has to be fewer than 20 pax a day. We will see JAX-EZE perhaps by 2050.

How do you think a hub sounds in TPA or FLL if the hub carrier in MIA can't sell enough tickets for a flight to FRA? Honestly, I think United pulled out of Miami for a reason. Look at AA's European offerings out of MIA

LHR
MXP
MAD
CDG

Granted, MIA isn't best positioned for these kind of flows but there are a class of airports anywhere in the US with this level of European service by a domestic carrier. It would be in the same class as SLC and DEN. Two of those flights are to partner hubs and I don't know the history of the MXP route but I'm guessing it's around because the foreign carrier left town a few years ago and no Arab carrier stepped in to operate the flight.

How do you think a hub sounds in FLL if the hub carrier in MIA can't sell enough tickets for a flight to FRA?

Florida is more of a destination. There are parts of the US where the average income is approaching $60k. Florida is not one of them.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:12 pm

enilria wrote:
I think UA has looked at closing IAD and creating a new hub. I'd think TPA would be a second choice behind RDU in such a scenario, but I think RDU is a much better choice because there isn't enough USA south of TPA and it's Latin ties are too weak compared to MIA/FLL/MCO.


IAD's hub has always been interesting to me.

As much as I personally would love an RDU hub scenario, it's very unlikely. Airlines (in the US) just aren't in the business of opening new hubs these days. They don't have to, they're all merging together...

There's been talk of closing IAD for at least a decade. It got louder during the CO merger but alas, it's still there. I think of IAD as more of a International gateway than a hub. It's been a while since I've seen the numbers, but I recall that UA has less than 100 flights a day there (and 20+% of those are Int'l). UAX has another 100-200.

If DCA had parallel RWY's long enough for regular TATL widebodies and pre-9/11 security restrictions, IAD probably would've closed a long time ago...but alas it doesn't and IAD serves all the defense contractors in DC and NoVa quite well. I don't see them closing it, maybe pulling back a bit, but IIRC there's only ~4 flight banks per day.
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piedmont762
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:39 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Im sorry, what are you responding to? You didn't address one thing I wrote.


You aren't asking anything, you are just rambling on about Houston. I said in a previous post that UA isn't going to open a hub in Florida.


Have you looked at where IAH has shrunk? Most of what they have gotten rid of were oil based routes or reductions in places that fed oil based routes.


This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:45 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

You aren't asking anything, you are just rambling on about Houston. I said in a previous post that UA isn't going to open a hub in Florida.


Have you looked at where IAH has shrunk? Most of what they have gotten rid of were oil based routes or reductions in places that fed oil based routes.


This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.

Nope, and where are you getting the info to back up these assertions, would love to see you back it up with actual evidence. I follow IAH alongside LAXdude, and I can tell you that he knows what he is talking about. I think you need to review whatever info you are looking at to come up with these assumptions of yours.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:56 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Have you looked at where IAH has shrunk? Most of what they have gotten rid of were oil based routes or reductions in places that fed oil based routes.


This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.

Nope, and where are you getting the info to back up these assertions, would love to see you back it up with actual evidence. I follow IAH alongside LAXdude, and I can tell you that he knows what he is talking about. I think you need to review whatever info you are looking at to come up with these assumptions of yours.


Yes you two have an unhealthy obsession for defending the airport at all costs. Much like the EWR folks.

Simple google search and proves my point: http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news ... urces.html
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:02 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.

Nope, and where are you getting the info to back up these assertions, would love to see you back it up with actual evidence. I follow IAH alongside LAXdude, and I can tell you that he knows what he is talking about. I think you need to review whatever info you are looking at to come up with these assumptions of yours.


Yes you two have an unhealthy obsession for defending the airport at all costs. Much like the EWR folks.

Simple google search and proves my point: http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news ... urces.html

That is old news! Call us obsessed, but one article from earlier on the year doesn't tell the whole story.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:11 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
Nope, and where are you getting the info to back up these assertions, would love to see you back it up with actual evidence. I follow IAH alongside LAXdude, and I can tell you that he knows what he is talking about. I think you need to review whatever info you are looking at to come up with these assumptions of yours.


Yes you two have an unhealthy obsession for defending the airport at all costs. Much like the EWR folks.

Simple google search and proves my point: http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news ... urces.html

That is old news! Call us obsessed, but one article from earlier on the year doesn't tell the whole story.


It's not old news, it's from 2016. UA has not built back Houston in less than a year. Quit spinning and go back to topic.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:31 pm

I am not spinning, LAXDude knows what he is talking about. Using one article from 2016, that mentions that UA is shrinking IAH in the energy sector is not going to tell how IAH is doing now.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
CIDFlyer
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:50 pm

winginit wrote:
intotheair wrote:
UA is in a tough spot having direct or indirect competition at nearly all of its hubs.


Direct or indirect competition, so said differently, they have competition within their hubs... does any carrier not have that issue?


compared to DL & AA pretty much all of UA's hubs have large competition whether in the same airport or a competing airport.
For example:
ORD- AA hub there, and WN at MDW down the road
IAH-WN at HOU across town
IAD-AA at DCA, WN at BWI to a lesser extent
EWR-B6/DL/AA at JFK AA/DL at LGA
LAX-DL/AA/WN all have large or equal ops
SFO-WN at OAK across the bay
DEN-WN & F9

Delta is probably the best at having fortress hubs. ATL even with a hundred and so WN flights DL is such a behemoth at about 900 daily flights it rules there.
MSP & DTW have about 400-500 flights whereas the next largest carrier probably has 20/30 some flights. SLC basically the same 300 flights vs the next largest carrier. DL owns their main hubs.

American is also somewhat good with fortress hubs. CLT being the main one with nearly 700 flights up against DL which probably has 30 some flights. DFW is kind of the same boat like DL at ATL...while the do have WN across town at DAL WN until recently has been hamstrung there and will always probably have some constraints whereas AA has 800 flights. After that they kind of deal with the same issues at LAX up against UA/DL/WN, PHX has WN to contend with, ORD has UA. DCA they probably get the nod there since its the preferred airport and they are probably actually bigger than UA at IAD.

UA(CO) at one point had IAH at a fortress level with over 700 daily flights but that has shrunk substantially (I think down to 500 plus or minus--a big drop off for sure).

I still think UA's best bet to serve the Southeast is a combination between IAH & IAD. They geographically touch the fringes of the region. IAD in particular could be utilized more, but they go up against DL which pretty much owns the region and always has and AA which is the next biggest (vis a vis US and PI before that). People in that region are just used to going through either ATL or CLT.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:27 am

piedmont762 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

Yes you two have an unhealthy obsession for defending the airport at all costs. Much like the EWR folks.

Simple google search and proves my point: http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/news ... urces.html

That is old news! Call us obsessed, but one article from earlier on the year doesn't tell the whole story.


It's not old news, it's from 2016. UA has not built back Houston in less than a year. Quit spinning and go back to topic.

If you won't listen to LAXDude, who is one of the most respected users on this forum, then what do you listen to?

I'm honestly asking, what do YOU (Piedmont762) think United is going to do with IAH and EWR?

EWR is getting Polaris service and a whole new Polaris lounge, and UA is completely renovating Terminal B and half of C, and just broke ground on what will be a huge MRO facility for all of UAs fleet types in IAH.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:28 am

piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

You aren't asking anything, you are just rambling on about Houston. I said in a previous post that UA isn't going to open a hub in Florida.


Have you looked at where IAH has shrunk? Most of what they have gotten rid of were oil based routes or reductions in places that fed oil based routes.


This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.


Who is denying numbers are down? Did you miss my first post where I said they were down? WHERE they are down is where you are off. I've said from the get go that IAH was taking it in the short to other oil destinations. IAH-GIG/ABZ/SIN/MAF/BFL/ISN/YYC/CCS have come down significantly. But the assertion you're making is that IAH is down to non oil destinations which, across the board, isn't true. IAH is currently running flat to most non oil destinations. The Latin American network hasn't really been touched. The long haul flight are all still there. The frequencies to non oil destinations are relatively flat.


The article you posted didn't negate anything I've said.
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2travel2know2
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:14 am

Taking specifically about UA in MIA, while UA isn't a big airline there, its Star Alliance partners (?) do have a sizeable piece of the MIA-Latin America marked and offer code-share with UA.
What UA could probably do in MIA is offer more connectivity between MIA and some of its hubs and perhaps major markets in the U.S. where the Star Alliance partners want connectivity from MIA (IMHO, BOS and LAS are some of those).
Also noticeable, Star Alliance has no presence on MIA major non-stop markets like MEX, MAR, CCS, PAP, KIN, POS, STI, SDQ and LON.
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thekorean
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:29 am

TWA772LR wrote:
The only one I see as remotely feasible is JAX, and it's not feasible...


TPA is more viable and even there its unlikely.
 
globalcabotage
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:39 am

UA is weak in FL. I like the idea of a TPA hub, but TPA is not MIA/FLL/PBI or MCO, so not sure if this is viable.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:30 am

thekorean wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
The only one I see as remotely feasible is JAX, and it's not feasible...


TPA is more viable and even there its unlikely.

TPA is the larger city, but I was thinking in terms of geography. Both cities have their merits. IAD is just too close for UA to have a true SE hub, unless they want to go into Birmingham, Alabama.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:34 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
Taking specifically about UA in MIA, while UA isn't a big airline there, its Star Alliance partners (?) do have a sizeable piece of the MIA-Latin America marked and offer code-share with UA.
What UA could probably do in MIA is offer more connectivity between MIA and some of its hubs and perhaps major markets in the U.S. where the Star Alliance partners want connectivity from MIA (IMHO, BOS and LAS are some of those).
Also noticeable, Star Alliance has no presence on MIA major non-stop markets like MEX, MAR, CCS, PAP, KIN, POS, STI, SDQ and LON.

The beauty of global aviation is that even though nonstops are offered from cities, a person can connect from anywhere to anywhere making all airlines in de facto competition with each other. MIA may have nonstop service to LHR, but what's to stop a person from connecting through EWR, IAD or ATL if the price is right or they reap FF benefits? Not being a jerk, just pointing that out. But, of course nonstops are always the highest yielding.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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ADent
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:27 am

codc10 wrote:
In 2004, all that remained was hub service, and LAX/SFO were dropped around that time too.

At some point MIA was not even a mainline station for UA.

RDUDDJI wrote:
Airlines (in the US) just aren't in the business of opening new hubs these days.

DL is working on something in SEA. Ironically UA had a good sized operation in SEA, but pulled it down to basically a spoke.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:15 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Have you looked at where IAH has shrunk? Most of what they have gotten rid of were oil based routes or reductions in places that fed oil based routes.


This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.


Who is denying numbers are down? Did you miss my first post where I said they were down? WHERE they are down is where you are off. I've said from the get go that IAH was taking it in the short to other oil destinations. IAH-GIG/ABZ/SIN/MAF/BFL/ISN/YYC/CCS have come down significantly. But the assertion you're making is that IAH is down to non oil destinations which, across the board, isn't true. IAH is currently running flat to most non oil destinations. The Latin American network hasn't really been touched. The long haul flight are all still there. The frequencies to non oil destinations are relatively flat.


The article you posted didn't negate anything I've said.


There are plenty of resources to show that UA has drawn down frequency and seats to IAH. It's not just "oil rich" destinations at all. And I really can't believe you are still arguing about this considering how many threads have been started about UA drawing down Houston because of the energy recession. And good riddance, those jobs can go away and never come back IMHO.
 
B737900ER
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:33 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.


Who is denying numbers are down? Did you miss my first post where I said they were down? WHERE they are down is where you are off. I've said from the get go that IAH was taking it in the short to other oil destinations. IAH-GIG/ABZ/SIN/MAF/BFL/ISN/YYC/CCS have come down significantly. But the assertion you're making is that IAH is down to non oil destinations which, across the board, isn't true. IAH is currently running flat to most non oil destinations. The Latin American network hasn't really been touched. The long haul flight are all still there. The frequencies to non oil destinations are relatively flat.


The article you posted didn't negate anything I've said.


And good riddance, those jobs can go away and never come back IMHO.

What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:36 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

This, without a doubt definitely isn't true. They've scaled back frequencies to major business destinations as well. Numbers are down, can't deny it.


Who is denying numbers are down? Did you miss my first post where I said they were down? WHERE they are down is where you are off. I've said from the get go that IAH was taking it in the short to other oil destinations. IAH-GIG/ABZ/SIN/MAF/BFL/ISN/YYC/CCS have come down significantly. But the assertion you're making is that IAH is down to non oil destinations which, across the board, isn't true. IAH is currently running flat to most non oil destinations. The Latin American network hasn't really been touched. The long haul flight are all still there. The frequencies to non oil destinations are relatively flat.


The article you posted didn't negate anything I've said.


There are plenty of resources to show that UA has drawn down frequency and seats to IAH. It's not just "oil rich" destinations at all. And I really can't believe you are still arguing about this considering how many threads have been started about UA drawing down Houston because of the energy recession. And good riddance, those jobs can go away and never come back IMHO.


You have nothing to show for it other than your words. Part of my career involves studying this very thing. Ive seen numbers on it. They reflect exactly what Im saying. Your "plenty of resources" don't add up to a hill of beans.

And you hate Houston. Fine. But when you wish economic disaster for the people that live here, it shows who you really are.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
codc10
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:38 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
There are plenty of resources to show that UA has drawn down frequency and seats to IAH.


FSDan and ORDFlyer99 did a nice job with this work in years past, which I am reproducing here since I don't know how to link to the respective posts. But here are the IAH numbers from 2014, 2015, 2016, keeping in mind that these are generally at the peak of the peak seasons:

Summer 2014

IAH

ER3: 35
ER4: 269
CR2: 12
CR7: 31
E70: 17
E75: 3
319: 26
320: 48
73G: 20
738: 67
739: 56
752: 12
753: 5
763: 9
764: 1
788: 4
777: 5

Total = 620
367 UAX
253 Mainline
40.8% mainline

Summer 2015


IAH:
772: 5
788:6
764:1
763:6
753: 10
752: 3
739: 61
738: 61
73G: 19
A320: 39
A319: 36
E75: 44
E70: 14
CR7: 58
ER4: 223
Mainline: 247
Regional: 339
Total: 586

Summer 2016

Houston Intercontinental 50,000 Seats
772: 5
789: 2
788: 6
764: 1
763: 6
752: 3
739: 53
738: 38
73G: 33
320: 39
319: 17
E7W: 74
E70: 21
CR7: 38
ER4: 155
Mainline: 203
Regional: 288
Total: 491, 41.3% Mainline

Major cuts in the 50-seater network, increases on the large RJ side, mainline down as well. No doubt the oil collapse really hurt IAH. I think the point of the 2016 guidance is that we are beginning to lap a lot of the capacity cuts, so the bleeding is essentially stopped and the hub does not need to be cut any further. Still, there can be no denying the operation has been drawn back materially to the point that it is now a lot smaller than ORD, when at the time of the merger they were essentially neck-and-neck.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:49 pm

Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.

B737900ER wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:

Who is denying numbers are down? Did you miss my first post where I said they were down? WHERE they are down is where you are off. I've said from the get go that IAH was taking it in the short to other oil destinations. IAH-GIG/ABZ/SIN/MAF/BFL/ISN/YYC/CCS have come down significantly. But the assertion you're making is that IAH is down to non oil destinations which, across the board, isn't true. IAH is currently running flat to most non oil destinations. The Latin American network hasn't really been touched. The long haul flight are all still there. The frequencies to non oil destinations are relatively flat.


The article you posted didn't negate anything I've said.


And good riddance, those jobs can go away and never come back IMHO.

What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.
 
B737900ER
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:12 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.

B737900ER wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

And good riddance, those jobs can go away and never come back IMHO.

What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.

Where did I mention industry specific jobs? I mentioned my own experience, and to wish job loss on anyone in this country shows where you stand.

Im sure the thousands of American engineers, administration, and industry support staff who lost jobs don't share your views. As well as the tens of thousands of business that rely on their economic support.

And just for the record, nowhere in your post did you mention oil specific jobs. You only mention job losses in the context of flight reductions. But nice job trying to weasel out of that one.
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:20 pm

B737900ER wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.

B737900ER wrote:
What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.

Where did I mention industry specific jobs? I mentioned my own experience, and to wish job loss on anyone in this country shows where you stand.

Im sure the thousands of American engineers, administration, and industry support staff who lost jobs don't share your views. As well as the tens of thousands of business that rely on their economic support.

And just for the record, nowhere in your post did you mention oil specific jobs. You only mention job losses in the context of flight reductions. But nice job trying to weasel out of that one.


You weasel out of every post by continuously misquoting people and trolling users. I was pretty specific about oil jobs in my post, hence why you can't read.

I have a family member who used to work in oil and gas consulting and lost her job in Houston. She says it was miserable to work in that industry and she's better off now.
 
a380787
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:23 pm

B737900ER wrote:
What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.


Don't feed the troll. Clearly someone isn't doing their job to clean up this thread.
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:24 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.

B737900ER wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

And good riddance, those jobs can go away and never come back IMHO.

What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.

Are we? LAXDude and I have seen those numbers, but like COD10 said these numbers are essentially lapping in the capacity cuts, and the major drawdown in rjs,and doesn't not necessarily prove you are right. IAH has stopped shrinking and has stabilized, as COD10 has said in the post you are quoting, and as LAXDude said before, is growing in domestic O&D, and has a strong international market. But I have to admit that 2016 has been a rough year for IAH. If you actually follow IAH as much as LAXDude and I, you would see there is a lot more to this story than you say there is.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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piedmont762
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:42 pm

AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.

B737900ER wrote:
What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.

Are we? LAXDude and I have seen those numbers, but like COD10 said these numbers are essentially lapping in the capacity cuts, and the major drawdown in rjs,and doesn't not necessarily prove you are right. IAH has stopped shrinking and has stabilized, as COD10 has said in the post you are quoting, and as LAXDude said before, is growing in domestic O&D, and has a strong international market. But I have to admit that 2016 has been a rough year for IAH. If you actually follow IAH as much as LAXDude and I, you would see there is a lot more to this story than you say there is.


Oh please - the hub has shrunk from 620 flights to 491 flights in 2 years and he mentioned there were capacity cuts as well. At this point I think you're delusional.
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6174
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:42 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.

B737900ER wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

And good riddance, those jobs can go away and never come back IMHO.

What a sick comment.
As someone who has had their share of airline relocations and layoffs, I wouldn't wish that against my fiercest competitor.


Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.


Ignorant to facts, go re-read my first post.

Reading comprehension? Maybe you should read the article you posted where UA said IAH was going to be flat YOY. Ive also said over and over that capacity was down. Show me where the hell I said otherwise.

As to your last comment, you don't know anything about the O&D industry. That's so plain to see. Most of the O&G jobs in Houston are created by jobs that are located here not overseas. Yes we have companies like Shell and Schlumberger, but they don't create nearly the jobs that Haliburton, Exxon, Marathon, etc. do in this market.

Are you so naïve to believe that somehow oil companies are any more or less corrupt than finance, pharma, government, or any other part of our economy? Youre 29, I wouldn't think someone that age would be so freaking clueless about the world around them.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:48 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.



Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.

Are we? LAXDude and I have seen those numbers, but like COD10 said these numbers are essentially lapping in the capacity cuts, and the major drawdown in rjs,and doesn't not necessarily prove you are right. IAH has stopped shrinking and has stabilized, as COD10 has said in the post you are quoting, and as LAXDude said before, is growing in domestic O&D, and has a strong international market. But I have to admit that 2016 has been a rough year for IAH. If you actually follow IAH as much as LAXDude and I, you would see there is a lot more to this story than you say there is.


Oh please - the hub has shrunk from 620 flights to 491 flights in 2 years and he mentioned there were capacity cuts as well. At this point I think you're delusional.

I already new about that, but not all of that shows your point, I even said there were capacity cuts, but there was a reduction in rjs which certainly pulled down that number and other factors.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
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AVENSAB727
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:55 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:

Oh please - the hub has shrunk from 620 flights to 491 flights in 2 years and he mentioned there were capacity cuts as well. At this point I think you're delusional.

I already new about that, but not all of that shows your point, I even said there were capacity cuts, but there was a reduction in rjs which certainly pulled down that number and other factors.


Wrong - it does. At this point, I don't know if there is a point to anything you're saying. Just a blind supporter of CO and Houston

And now you resort to name-calling. Look, yes IAH has shrunk in places, but UA has said that they would put those planes right back when oil recovers, You clearly are not even considering the investments that UA is continuing to make in Houston IAH, only looking at the numbers of flights. Keep up the one-sided argument.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 6174
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:03 pm

piedmont762 wrote:
AVENSAB727 wrote:
piedmont762 wrote:
Thanks for that insight COD10! Some people are just ignorant to facts.



Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I see. I said oil jobs which were dominant "can go away and never come back" which were corrupted by overseas oil companies. It's sick that you would want that corruption in this country and higher oil prices to benefit a hub.

Are we? LAXDude and I have seen those numbers, but like COD10 said these numbers are essentially lapping in the capacity cuts, and the major drawdown in rjs,and doesn't not necessarily prove you are right. IAH has stopped shrinking and has stabilized, as COD10 has said in the post you are quoting, and as LAXDude said before, is growing in domestic O&D, and has a strong international market. But I have to admit that 2016 has been a rough year for IAH. If you actually follow IAH as much as LAXDude and I, you would see there is a lot more to this story than you say there is.


Oh please - the hub has shrunk from 620 flights to 491 flights in 2 years and he mentioned there were capacity cuts as well. At this point I think you're delusional.


You would make a terrible analyst. Break down the data YOY:

Below is wide body, which for the most part, represents long haul but also a couple of flights to hubs:

2015:

772: 5
788:6
764:1
763:6

2016:

772: 5
789: 2
788: 6
764: 1
763: 6

Increase: 2 789 flights.

Below are the mainline Boeing aircraft:

2015:
753: 10
752: 3
739: 61
738: 61
73G: 19
Total: 144

2016:
752: 3
739: 53
738: 38
73G: 33
Total: 127

Down 17 flights which is primarily due to the 753's no longer being based at IAH. There have been some capacity reductions with 737-700's replacing the 737-800/900 but to a lesser degree.

Below are mainline Airbus aircraft:

2015:
A320: 39
A319: 36

2016:
320: 39
319: 17

320's are flat and 319's are down 19. This reason will become apparent below when looking at the 175's.

RJ flying:

2015:
E75: 44
E70: 14
CR7: 58
ER4: 223
Total: 339

2016:
E7W: 74
E70: 21
CR7: 38
ER4: 155
Total: 288

This ties into the reduction of the 319 flying and the reduction of the ERJ145's. We are some routes be right sized. A few are down as evidenced by the reduction of 319's, but a lot more are up as evidenced by the big increase of E175 and E170 flying. If you did a seat county, it would pretty much even out.

If all you do is look at the bottom number, youre not cut out for this board. You have to be able to extract the data. This goes back to what Ive said all along. YES, IAH IS DOWN YOY. YES, ITS NOT AS BIG AS IT ONCE WAS. YES, O&G DESTINATIONS HAVE FALLEN HARD. YES, THIS IS STILL A MASSIVE INTERNATIONAL MARKET BIGGER THAN MOST OTHER HUBS IN THE US. YES, DOMESTIC O&D IS STILL GROWING.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:08 pm

This is a thread about United and Florida.
How it segued into a gigantic ridiculous pissing match about Houston is beyond me.
I'd suggest that moderators either close this thread down or delete all the comments that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
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OA412
Moderator
Posts: 4784
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:20 pm

There were at least two posts in this thread asking where the moderators are. Please report posts that violate the rules! We are not everywhere and don't read all threads. I happened to come to this thread because of a reported post. It's not a topic that interests me and I would not otherwise have opened the thread. I'm sure there are other moderators in the same boat. Unless posts are reported, we cannot do anything about those in threads we don't visit.

In addition, I've noticed this thread is beginning to veer off topic. Keep it on topic and cut it out with personal attacks. If they continue, this thread will be locked.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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N717TW
Posts: 564
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Re: United and a Florida Hub

Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:20 am

codc10 wrote:
a380787 wrote:
The issue is mostly regarding high-level corporate strategy, in which UA has been reluctant to do p2p routes, and even less so now that the EMB120 fleet draw down is (mostly) complete. UA doesn't need more hubs, but they can likely benefit from an expanded list of focus cities.


I think many of the decision-makers responsible for United's strict adherence to its hub-and-spoke strategy have left the building in the past few months (even weeks). Though I seriously doubt a new hubsite is in the mix, I am not foreclosing on the possibility of United being more opportunistic (on a smaller scale) in non-hub markets going forward. Time will tell.



I wouldn't call Scott Kirby a big proponent of non-hub flying. Legacy USAir probably had the most non-hub (or at least the most non-core hub) flying between all the legacy Mohawk, Allegheny and Piedmont stuff plus other things they added over the years right up to the double bankruptcies of the '00s. Then Scott and Doug took over (via Am. West) and slowly it all went away with only a very small handful of flights to/from PIT and BOS.

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