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jfkflyer
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Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:22 pm

Is the 777-200LR still being produced? There are no current orders but is it possible for Boeing to deliver one? Why the 777-200LR and not the 787-8?
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77H
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:08 pm

From what I can see on Boeing's site one could potentially order the 777-200ER/LR/F and 777-300ER. I am sure if a customer expressed interest in ordering a -200ER/LR Boeing would built it. They are still cranking out 77W's keep the line in action until the 77X comes online.

As for why the 772LR over the 788, the fact that their are no orders for the 772LR and 788's are still being delivered gives you the answer.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:50 pm

Boeing would offer discounts. The perfect time to order a VIP around the world cruiser!!!

The issue is the pending A359LR and 778. The 77L will have poor resale prospects and few years to pay for a pricey airframe before more economical planes put it out to pasture.

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theSFOspotter
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:21 am

The 77L is also much more expensive to operate unless its on a long haul route. The 787-8 is more economically viable to do short and medium haul, especially in the domestic US, ME short hops, Intra Asia etc. I remember hearing from a DL rep that when the 77L would fly ATL-LAX it would cost them the same amount as a 767 and sometimes more.
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DeSpringbokke
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:36 am

Yes, Boeing is still trying to sell 77Ls and 77Ws. EK was rumoured to be interesting in purchasing 10-15 77Ls some time ago, but it appears nothing came of it. The 77F uses the same frame as the 77L. I suspect all remaining 777 sales and builds will be either 77Fs or 77Ws before the line ends and the 77X takes over.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:51 am

theSFOspotter wrote:
The 77L is also much more expensive to operate unless its on a long haul route. The 787-8 is more economically viable to do short and medium haul, especially in the domestic US, ME short hops, Intra Asia etc. I remember hearing from a DL rep that when the 77L would fly ATL-LAX it would cost them the same amount as a 767 and sometimes more.

This makes no sense. If it was the same cost as a 767 that means that you have hundreds more seats and the same cost. What is the problem?
 
jfkflyer
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:30 am

Wow. Who would order a 777L?
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Stitch
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:33 am

InselMotherFokk wrote:
Is the 777-200LR still being produced?


It's being produced as a freighter.


InselMotherFokk wrote:
There are no current orders but is it possible for Boeing to deliver one?


Absolutely.


InselMotherFokk wrote:
Why the 777-200LR and not the 787-8?


The 777-200LR is a fairly larger frame and will lift a fair bit more payload and fly it a fair bit farther,
 
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77west
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:57 am

InselMotherFokk wrote:
Wow. Who would order a 777L?

Someone like EK who has them already and could do with a few more for commonality and delivery timeliness.
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KrustyTheKlown
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:51 am

InselMotherFokk wrote:
Wow. Who would order a 777L?


As lightsaber said, VIP customers could be interested.

But even so I think it's extremely unlikely as the most recent 777 VIP costumer (Japan Air Force one replacements) bought two 777-300ER.
 
ericm2031
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:29 am

I would expect FedEx to possibly have some more orders for the 77F (77L). They seem to be very pleased with theirs and are finally going through their current order book after deferring quite a few. UPS may even order some if the price is right.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:56 am

Boeing will happily build you one. It's still on the price list and has near-total commonality with the 777-300ER.

The challenge would be finding a bank or lessor to finance it, as Lightsaber indicates:

lightsaber wrote:
The 77L will have poor resale prospects and few years to pay for a pricey airframe before more economical planes put it out to pasture.
 
OMAAbound
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:37 am

Yes they are still available, they are basically the same as the F version barring a few difference.

The problem which has been mentioned is the resale of them, and this was shown just a few years ago when Etihad bought 5 77L's from Air India for the price of one.

This explains perfectly why nobody is buying them!
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:27 am

InselMotherFokk wrote:
Wow. Who would order a 777L?

If my Credit Card company allowed me, you would see... :)

OMAAbound wrote:
The problem which has been mentioned is the resale of them, and this was shown just a few years ago when Etihad bought 5 77L's from Air India for the price of one.

Ex-AI frames for the price of one? Way too expensive...
 
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redzeppelin
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 1:30 pm

32andBelow wrote:
theSFOspotter wrote:
The 77L is also much more expensive to operate unless its on a long haul route. The 787-8 is more economically viable to do short and medium haul, especially in the domestic US, ME short hops, Intra Asia etc. I remember hearing from a DL rep that when the 77L would fly ATL-LAX it would cost them the same amount as a 767 and sometimes more.

This makes no sense. If it was the same cost as a 767 that means that you have hundreds more seats and the same cost. What is the problem?


I assume that theSFOspotter is talking about per passenger or seat-mile costs. The CASM is usually lower for larger aircraft, but for the ATL-LAX stage length, the 77L had no advantage over the 767. That's how I understood it. If the costs are similar on this route, you might expect that the 77L to start showing a CASM advantage for anything longer.
 
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flyingclrs727
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:03 pm

redzeppelin wrote:
I assume that theSFOspotter is talking about per passenger or seat-mile costs. The CASM is usually lower for larger aircraft, but for the ATL-LAX stage length, the 77L had no advantage over the 767. That's how I understood it. If the costs are similar on this route, you might expect that the 77L to start showing a CASM advantage for anything longer.


I thought their 77L ATL-LAX flights were mostly for the purpose of allowing premium passengers to fly ATL-LAX-SYD on an internationally configured plane for the whole trip. Also, it can carry lots more freight between ATL and LAX than a 767.
 
winginit
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:34 pm

Was it Air India who recently (in the last two years?) had a heck of a time offloading their used 77Ls? I understand that the frames were in pretty bad shape, but even so I think that was evidence of what would be challenging prospects in offloading the frame once it had run its course.
 
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:43 pm

The 77L has a parts list that is almost identical with the 77W's. I think there may be a few differences in the interior fittings, and of course Boeing still has those parts to support the world 772 fleet. So there are a fixed number of 777L/W production slots left. Those slots can be filled with a 77L/F/W order and Boeing will happily build the aircraft for you.

Now, as to who might order a 77L...well, that's a different matter entirely.
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SEPilot
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 7:32 pm

The 77L never had much demand (Boeing almost did not make it) and the 77W offered enough range for almost all of the operators. Now that more efficient alternatives are available (if not quite as long ranged) I do not see anyone ordering another. But seeing as it is essentially the same as the 77W and 77F Boeing will happily build all of them that anyone would order. That is not the case with the 77E, however.
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Yakamoz
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:34 pm

Why not TK?
 
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scbriml
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:02 pm

77H wrote:
As for why the 772LR over the 788, the fact that their are no orders for the 772LR and 788's are still being delivered gives you the answer.


The main reason is that the 200LR is a niche plane with just 59 orders (all delivered).
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DFW789ER
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:15 pm

Yakamoz wrote:
Why not TK?


Given they seem to be hemorrhaging money and cutting back on many routes, they are not going to be ordering and older generation a/c.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:50 pm

DL operates 10 77L's but with the A350-900's coming on line next year I can't see them ordering any more.
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Stitch
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:38 pm

DTWPurserBoy wrote:
DL operates 10 77L's but with the A350-900's coming on line next year I can't see them ordering any more.


That's a given considering Boeing offered 777-200LRs with the 787-9s in the RFP that was won by Airbus.
 
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jetjack74
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:45 am

Stitch wrote:
DTWPurserBoy wrote:
DL operates 10 77L's but with the A350-900's coming on line next year I can't see them ordering any more.


That's a given considering Boeing offered 777-200LRs with the 787-9s in the RFP that was won by Airbus.


Well, if we're taking delivery of them next year, thats news to us. We're pushing back the delivery date to mid to late 2018, as well as some A330s, but somehow, i'm predicting the 350 is gonna get pushed out further to 2019/20. If it were to be taking delivery next year of the A350, we'd probably would've heard about a training timeline for it by now. We haven't heard a peep. If the pilots contract gets settled, then I thin we might see some sort of schedule.
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jfkflyer
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:14 pm

Can we still see 777-200er?
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Stitch
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:03 pm

InselMotherFokk wrote:
Can we still see 777-200er?


In theory, but Boeing (and GE) will work hard to sell you a 777-200LR for not much more.
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:05 pm

winginit wrote:
Was it Air India who recently (in the last two years?) had a heck of a time offloading their used 77Ls? I understand that the frames were in pretty bad shape, .


So Etihad, one of the world's richest airlines that can afford to, and has been buying clutches of brand new planes from Boeing and Airbus, chooses instead to get cheapo, allegedly substandard planes from AI?

Something doesn't quite make sense here.
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hOMSaR
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:11 pm

DIJKKIJK wrote:
So Etihad, one of the world's richest airlines that can afford to, and has been buying clutches of brand new planes from Boeing and Airbus, chooses instead to get cheapo, allegedly substandard planes from AI?

Something doesn't quite make sense here.


It does if they got something more than a handful of planes out of the deal. I can't remember with certainty, but I recall there being more to the story at the time (e.g. maybe EY got/tried to get additional access to markets in India or something of that sort). But it was definitely about more than picking up some used 77Ls.
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jfkflyer
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:15 pm

What Aircraft does boeing still make that customers simply- won't order?
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airlinebuilder
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:03 am

that is one aircraft that made me think why Philippine Airlines did not consider to order for the ULR like New York and for its European expansion instead of (moot and academic) the A350s considering the former's commonality to its current 77W?

can anyone enlighten me on this one? thanks
 
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richcam427
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:04 am

As long as the 77F is in production, so will the 77L.
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:42 am

hOMSaR wrote:
DIJKKIJK wrote:
So Etihad, one of the world's richest airlines that can afford to, and has been buying clutches of brand new planes from Boeing and Airbus, chooses instead to get cheapo, allegedly substandard planes from AI?

Something doesn't quite make sense here.


It does if they got something more than a handful of planes out of the deal. I can't remember with certainty, but I recall there being more to the story at the time (e.g. maybe EY got/tried to get additional access to markets in India or something of that sort). But it was definitely about more than picking up some used 77Ls.


So you are suggesting that Etihad was actually willing to pick up the allegedly substandard planes, with all the associated safety and maintenance problems that would come with them, just in return for some additional market access to India? This, when other Gulf carriers have been literally ruling the roost with the Indian government and getting all the market access they want without having to pick up old AI planes for cheap?

Sorry my friend. Still doesn't make sense to me. The only plausible explanation I can see is that those AI 77Ls weren't as badly maintained as claimed by the armchair specialists on this forum.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
LJ
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:01 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
So you are suggesting that Etihad was actually willing to pick up the allegedly substandard planes, with all the associated safety and maintenance problems that would come with them, just in return for some additional market access to India? This, when other Gulf carriers have been literally ruling the roost with the Indian government and getting all the market access they want without having to pick up old AI planes for cheap?

Sorry my friend. Still doesn't make sense to me. The only plausible explanation I can see is that those AI 77Ls weren't as badly maintained as claimed by the armchair specialists on this forum.


Etihad had to please the Indian government as they wanted to get more out of its stake in 9W. AFAIK there were some allegations by the Indian government that EY controlled 9W and too much long haul went via AUH. This wasn't allowed. EY took these 777s as nobody wanted them (and they could use some). You cannot compare the relationship between Etihad and the Inifian government with the one the other ME3 airlines have as they don't have a large stake in an Indian airline (and thus less political exposure).
 
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Momo1435
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:30 am

Etihad could take delivery of these Air India 77Ls within 6 months. They wouldn't have been able to get new delivery slots at Boeing this quick back in 2013/14. Add a very good price and you have a very sweet deal for these planes. As for the state of the planes, if poor maintenance is properly documented it should not be an issue. From what I see from the outside their biggest problem is that they have spare part stock issues. Hence the always grounding a couple of planes for spare parts. That just makes Air India a loss making company, not so much an unsafe airline to fly. But never mind, that's a whole different discussion. I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing somewhere in the background even helped both airlines getting this deal of the ground, including technical assistance.

Air India did get some heat from the Indian regulators about this deal, that doesn't suggest that Etihad got something out of it other then a very quick delivery. The government wasn't too pleased that Air India sold these planes at a loss. There's no reason why they given a bonus to Etihad if it was such a bad deal for Air India.


As for this thread topic, Boeing did offer Delta some 77Ls in their recent wide body deal which they eventually lost to Airbus.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:16 pm

EY-India Quid-pro-quo aside B77L is a niche plane and there is very limited market.

EY, QR and lot of airlines have a long standing relationship with AI Engineering and they trust their capability. 9W/SpiceJet are also giving their MRO business to AIESL. DWC MRO project is managed by AIESL.

$65 Million each including heavy check and interior redo labor(EY purchased interior cabin components) is a good deal for EY.

In hindsight $65 was not a bad deal for AI either. It was paying $14 Million/year finance charges each. With A350 launch and former DL CEO's help resale values of B777s went down drastically. It will be worth lot less now.

On alleged rumors mostly started by AC and EK fans.

There is no evidence of any technical reliability issues with A6-LR*, ie., no statistical abnormalities. If EY purchased IFE or seat controls doesn't work it has nothing to do with AI keep up.

AC was never in a position to buy used planes because its entire MRO was screwed up(long story). Even today AC cannot even take delivery of brand new B787s from Boeing because it has no in-house expertise. Its GE90 are maintained by AFKL, heavy checks/interiors in Singapore/Hongkong. Total cluster... For its fans to comment on AI B77Ls cannot be registered with Transport Canada is disingenuous at best. AI Interiors were bad is another BS theory, any buyer will gut and put their own interiors.

Of course competitors won't let go any opportunity to tarnish AI's image, Indian international air traffic market is huge and a rumor that AI planes are unsafe works very favorable for their business.

With ME3 capacity dumping/price lowering DL dropped its DXB so it has little use for B77Ls in future.

In fact AI B77Ls the only ones still have aux tanks and right to use. EK allegedly scrapped those tanks and license fees.

Finally these written off/cannibalized/dilapidated/parted-out/undocumented B77Ls are breaking world records.
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Stitch
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 9:45 pm

InselMotherFokk wrote:
What Aircraft does boeing still make that customers simply- won't order?


The 767-300ER.
 
jfkflyer
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Mon Oct 31, 2016 7:46 pm

Is the 767-300er still offered?
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Stitch
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:55 pm

InselMotherFokk wrote:
Is the 767-300er still offered?


Yes.
 
Viscount724
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:59 am

Stitch wrote:
InselMotherFokk wrote:
Is the 767-300er still offered?


Yes.


Last order almost 5 years ago and last delivery (to Air Astana) more than 2 years ago (June 2014).
 
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Stitch
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:43 am

Viscount724 wrote:
Stitch wrote:
InselMotherFokk wrote:
Is the 767-300er still offered?


Yes.


Last order almost 5 years ago and last delivery (to Air Astana) more than 2 years ago (June 2014).


Still available for order, though, since it shares enough parts with the 767-300F. :)
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:13 am

Will Boeing build a 767-200ER if El Al orders some?
 
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Stitch
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:20 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will Boeing build a 767-200ER if El Al orders some?


No. The 767-2C uses some 767-200ER components, but the 767-200ER itself has been withdrawn from offer.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:21 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Will Boeing build a 767-200ER if El Al orders some?


El Al has ordered 787.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: Can you still order the 777-200LR? Will Boeing build it?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:45 am

mjoelnir wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
Will Boeing build a 767-200ER if El Al orders some?


El Al has ordered 787.


Will El Al have trouble filling the 787?

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