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MrGtheSheepA346
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Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:47 pm

http://www.rishworthaviation.com/news/86/breaking-news-for-norwegian-new-bases-announced-and-improved-pay.aspx

According to this article on Rishworth, "Norwegian will establish new European bases in Amsterdam, Barcelona and Paris.". Amsterdam is already a Norwegian destination with flights multiple daily flights from Copenhagen, Oslo and Stockholm. But the rumor of Norwegian opening of a long-haul base surprised me.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 3:07 pm

There was always a rumor for expansion from AMS but not longhaul. I find it quite a suprise though. I bet there will still be a lot more to come.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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MrGtheSheepA346
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:01 pm

lesfalls wrote:
There was always a rumor for expansion from AMS but not longhaul. I find it quite a suprise though. I bet there will still be a lot more to come.


Indeed quite a surprise, nothing is confirmed yet though ;)
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:11 pm

Not so surprising to me. A long haul low cost carrier will do it great in the Dutch marked.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
factsonly
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:26 pm

If Norwegian is planning new B787 long-haul service to its US destinations ex.AMS while further expanding CDG, the two most established low-cost long-haul carriers in these two markets - Icelandair and WOW - may be the most unhappy with this new non-stop competition to the USA.
 
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787fan8
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:32 pm

Any guesses on which US destinations they could serve from AMS? I could see them doing AMS-JFK, AMS-FLL or AMS-LAX.
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JeremyB
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:36 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Not so surprising to me. A long haul low cost carrier will do it great in the Dutch marked.


We already have Arke (TUI) so do we really need another one? I hope KM will react quickly and launch the long haul division based of Transavia as was rumored earlier.
 
a380787
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:46 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Not so surprising to me. A long haul low cost carrier will do it great in the Dutch marked.


We already have Arke (TUI) so do we really need another one? I hope KM will react quickly and launch the long haul division based of Transavia as was rumored earlier.


TUI/Arke's focus is mostly leisure destinations around the Caribbean. Norwegian will you take you to JFK, LAX, OAK etc.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:28 pm

Is AMS slot situation not pretty bad these days? I've hear many have issues with being awarded timings they desire.
mercure f-wtcc
 
eaa3
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:36 pm

factsonly wrote:
If Norwegian is planning new B787 long-haul service to its US destinations ex.AMS while further expanding CDG, the two most established low-cost long-haul carriers in these two markets - Icelandair and WOW - may be the most unhappy with this new non-stop competition to the USA.


But then their model is very different. Icelandair and WOW connect to a bunch of North American destinations through a hub-and-spoke system. Norwegian is doing more point to point, which is minimal competition for a hub-and-spoke model.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:52 am

eaa3 wrote:
factsonly wrote:
If Norwegian is planning new B787 long-haul service to its US destinations ex.AMS while further expanding CDG, the two most established low-cost long-haul carriers in these two markets - Icelandair and WOW - may be the most unhappy with this new non-stop competition to the USA.


But then their model is very different. Icelandair and WOW connect to a bunch of North American destinations through a hub-and-spoke system. Norwegian is doing more point to point, which is minimal competition for a hub-and-spoke model.


Iceland is also a destination itself, there is plenty of P2P traffic on the KEF-AMS lounge. Lots of other people enjoy the stopover in Iceland.
 
factsonly
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:34 am

spinkid wrote:
eaa3 wrote:
Iceland is also a destination itself, there is plenty of P2P traffic on the KEF-AMS lounge. Lots of other people enjoy the stopover in Iceland.


Iceland's 'stop-over' traffic is pure connecting traffic and in this low-cost market, very price sensitive.
There may indeed be some P2P traffic on CDG-KEF and AMS-KEF, but certainly no where near enough to fill 5x daily flights in S17 between AMS-KEF and CDG-KEF.

If Norwegian were to open the following routes on top of its present CDG-JFK:

- AMS-JFK
- AMS-OAK
- AMS-LAX
- CDG-OAK
- CDG-LAX

then particularly WOW-Air with its newly announced S17 double daily KEF-AMS and KEF-CDG will suffer.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:44 am

I don't think it is (only) about Dutch passengers.

AMS is a very popular destination for American tourists and it is often used as a "gateway" to combine it with other European areas (Brugge, Brussels, Paris, London, NRW, etc.) given how well Amsterdam is connected to Europe by air, train and bus.
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:28 pm

factsonly wrote:
spinkid wrote:
eaa3 wrote:
Iceland is also a destination itself, there is plenty of P2P traffic on the KEF-AMS lounge. Lots of other people enjoy the stopover in Iceland.


Iceland's 'stop-over' traffic is pure connecting traffic and in this low-cost market, very price sensitive.
There may indeed be some P2P traffic on CDG-KEF and AMS-KEF, but certainly no where near enough to fill 5x daily flights in S17 between AMS-KEF and CDG-KEF.

If Norwegian were to open the following routes on top of its present CDG-JFK:

- AMS-JFK
- AMS-OAK
- AMS-LAX
- CDG-OAK
- CDG-LAX

then particularly WOW-Air with its newly announced S17 double daily KEF-AMS and KEF-CDG will suffer.

DY already operates CDG-LAX. The rest though look like they would happen. Maybe BOS would also be announced from BOS.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
anstar
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:43 pm

JeremyB wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Not so surprising to me. A long haul low cost carrier will do it great in the Dutch marked.


We already have Arke (TUI) so do we really need another one? I hope KM will react quickly and launch the long haul division based of Transavia as was rumored earlier.


I think some long haul low cost competition would be welcome at AMS. As noted above Arke now Tui only fly to some leaisure caribbean destinations and are actually pretty small with only 4 long haul aircraft. Even Easyjet is now the number 2 carrier at schiphol with their base there and all the other bases that fly into AMS.

Norwegian could take the lead here and pre empt any KLM long haul LCC. Afterall Transavia is not really low cost compared to their competitors (Ryanair, EasyJet, Norwegian).
 
SCQ83
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 12:54 pm

anstar wrote:
I think some long haul low cost competition would be welcome at AMS. As noted above Arke now Tui only fly to some leaisure caribbean destinations and are actually pretty small with only 4 long haul aircraft. Even Easyjet is now the number 2 carrier at schiphol with their base there and all the other bases that fly into AMS.

Norwegian could take the lead here and pre empt any KLM long haul LCC. Afterall Transavia is not really low cost compared to their competitors (Ryanair, EasyJet, Norwegian).


And no one knows TUI or Arkefly in the US.

The enormous advantage Norwegian (and also Icelandair and WOW) is that, despite being European carriers, they are very well known in the US.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:41 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
anstar wrote:
I think some long haul low cost competition would be welcome at AMS. As noted above Arke now Tui only fly to some leaisure caribbean destinations and are actually pretty small with only 4 long haul aircraft. Even Easyjet is now the number 2 carrier at schiphol with their base there and all the other bases that fly into AMS.

Norwegian could take the lead here and pre empt any KLM long haul LCC. Afterall Transavia is not really low cost compared to their competitors (Ryanair, EasyJet, Norwegian).


And no one knows TUI or Arkefly in the US.

The enormous advantage Norwegian (and also Icelandair and WOW) is that, despite being European carriers, they are very well known in the US.


Does TUi even sell tickets in the US?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
airlinermiami
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:17 pm

Hi to all
Besides this rumor for AMS ..there has been also a rumor that Norwegian will be starting next year long-haul flights out of its MADRID base...This will be non-stop MADRID-OAKLAND ( serving the San Francisco bay area)
I hope this becomes an announcement for Norwegian.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:39 pm

Do they really have the planes for all of these supposed routes????
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mbm3
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:50 pm

Let's not forget about the long haul service planned from the Norwegian base at FCO. As I recall, there was a mention of the same within another announcement.
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:19 pm

Dutchy wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
anstar wrote:
I think some long haul low cost competition would be welcome at AMS. As noted above Arke now Tui only fly to some leaisure caribbean destinations and are actually pretty small with only 4 long haul aircraft. Even Easyjet is now the number 2 carrier at schiphol with their base there and all the other bases that fly into AMS.

Norwegian could take the lead here and pre empt any KLM long haul LCC. Afterall Transavia is not really low cost compared to their competitors (Ryanair, EasyJet, Norwegian).


And no one knows TUI or Arkefly in the US.

The enormous advantage Norwegian (and also Icelandair and WOW) is that, despite being European carriers, they are very well known in the US.


Does TUi even sell tickets in the US?

They do. From MCO/MIA-AMS it is bookable on Tui.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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PHBVF
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:51 pm

Through the Norwegian grapevine I've heard it is merely a crew base.
This has to do with the low retirement age at KLM. Lots of rated 787 captains with plenty of time left to continue flying with Norwegian.
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User001
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:05 pm

It seems 2 new UK bases due in 2017, but for the B737 rather than B787. News due around December/January time by all accounts.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:09 pm

Surprising, since Norwegian's presence in AMS is rather limited. Only OSL, ARN and CPH each get one daily flight (and not multiple as someone said earlier). Those are evening flights, meaning Norwegian has no presence at all in AMS in the morning and afternoon. Other important hubs for Norwegian like LGW are not connected. Well, they are, but not by Norwegian.

I do hope the rumours are true and Norwegian is going to grow in AMS. It's my local airport after all. But there's also a shortage of slots at AMS, so I doubt it.

If it's about the Dutch market only they might start operations at EIN. That's the second-largest airport in the Netherlands and the runway in EIN is long enough for long-haul operations. TUIfly once tried starting long-haul operations from EIN, but they picked the wrong destinations (AUA and CUR) and had to blow it off. Norwegian could for example start EIN-JFK or EIN-FLL. There's no restrictions on those destinations from EIN.
 
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PHBVF
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:39 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
But there's also a shortage of slots at AMS, so I doubt it.


This is only the case during peak times, so if they are willing to compromise departure times they have plenty of opportunity.
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:09 pm

User001 wrote:
It seems 2 new UK bases due in 2017, but for the B737 rather than B787. News due around December/January time by all accounts.


Are these completely new destinations (i.e. Leeds/Bradford or Newcastle) or growing EDI/BHX with longhaul to East Coast USA which has been discussed a lot.
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User001
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:15 pm

Going to be MAN and EDI looking at it.

MAN based on Thomas Rahmdahl (UK manager for Norwegian) stating more growth to come for Manchester. Added to that, he confirmed Tenerife is a year round route for Manchester, but not yet bookable past !arch so could be moving to a based aircraft.

Then there are recent press releases stating MAN/EDI-NYC for £200 return next year (BHX was not mentioned in that release), and one would expect a based aircraft is needed for those routes to run, so, bets on for those bases.

Talk of BHX seems to have gone quiet, with unconfirmed reports that a deal cannot be reached between Norwegian and BHX, as well as only 4 routes available to book next summer versus last summers 5.
 
Mortyman
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:06 pm

adamh8297 wrote:
Do they really have the planes for all of these supposed routes????



They are to get at least 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:58 am

Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
AMS18C36C
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:43 pm

So what can we see from Norwegian at AMS? The usual JFK/OAK/LAX/FLL/BOS? wonder if they are entitled to fly to some other popular routes, such as CUR or PBM.
 
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Polot
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:48 pm

Mortyman wrote:
adamh8297 wrote:
Do they really have the planes for all of these supposed routes????



They are to get at least 9 new Boeing 787-9's in 2017


It is also important to remember that very few of their long haul flights are actually daily, so one new plane can open up several new routes.
 
georgiabill
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Sat Oct 29, 2016 1:57 pm

I for one would love to see DY flying BOS to AMS and CDG! That being said I am still waiting for BOS- ORK to become reality!
 
LJ
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:42 pm

AMS18C36C wrote:
So what can we see from Norwegian at AMS? The usual JFK/OAK/LAX/FLL/BOS? wonder if they are entitled to fly to some other popular routes, such as CUR or PBM.


AFAIK they can't fly AMS-PBM and if so I'm sure PY will ensure this won't happen. The AMS-CUR market is already has a lot of capacity and strating in this market wouldn't gain much. I personally wonder if JFK would be a succes. DL/KL have 5 daily during Summer season (4 during WInter) to JFK/EWR and UA 1 daily to EWR. Fares on the route are already very low, and of you really want to go LCC you can alwys fly WOW or Icelandair. OAK and LAX make more sense. I doubt there is a big O&D market from BOS.
 
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adamh8297
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Re: Rumor: "Norwegian opens long-haul base @AMS"

Sat Oct 29, 2016 2:51 pm

LJ wrote:
I doubt there is a big O&D market from BOS.


Over 100 PDEW on average and like anything Europe to/from BOS is much higher in the Summer- granted DL flies double daily in Summer too. BOS-LGW was in the 90's for Load factor this summer in the face of BA/VS/DL being on the route and 1-stop ULCC competition from WW.

DY could easily fill a seasonal 2 weekly in the summer with their low fares.
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