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N14AZ
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Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:21 pm

Aero.de is reporting that there will be a press conference tomorrow.
Rumour is that Ryanair wants to start flights from/to FRA.

http://www.aero.de/news-25340/Ryanair-s ... en-an.html
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:30 pm

Now also reported by other media

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/tran ... -1.2850565

Ryanair will on Wednesday announce plans to start flying from Frankfurt airport, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters, stepping up competition with Lufthansa on its home turf.
The flights will likely start from the summer 2017 flight season, which begins in March, the source said.

German daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, citing industry sources, said Ryanair would fly to popular Spanish tourist destinations such as Mallorca.

Airport operator Fraport has been in talks with low cost carriers to boost passenger numbers at Europe’s fourth largest hub, and chief executive Stefan Schulte told Reuters last month that Fraport could offer financial incentives for a limited time to encourage new budget routes.

Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary has previously said high fees and long turnaround times at Frankfurt, London Heathrow and Paris Charles de Gaulle make it difficult for low cost operators to fly from those hubs.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:36 pm

They have invited to a press conference for tomorrow around noon time. Just in the Radio they are likely to announce PMI and ALC for Starters. They get 100 new a/c in the coming years which they have to Station on the continent, due to Brexit. And FRA has to catch up and realize that low cost is real and they have to accept reality.LH will follow suit and turn over some routs to EW from FRA as well. I hope that the uions will get the message now or they can run a musuem of flight as it used to be b4LCC.
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N14AZ
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:10 pm

PanHAM wrote:
They have invited to a press conference for tomorrow around noon time.

Just read on http://fraaviation.forumsfree.de/ that a FR-B737-800 will land tomorrow at 10am.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:26 pm

yes, the press conference is scheduled for 11h15 am
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lesfalls
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:35 pm

Not happy to hear this news. Hope that they don't stick around for too long.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
luftaom
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 3:52 pm

PanHAM wrote:
They get 100 new a/c in the coming years which they have to Station on the continent, due to Brexit.


Why do they have to do this?
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
flyingcat
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:25 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Not happy to hear this news. Hope that they don't stick around for too long.


:roll: :lol:
 
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LH748
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:26 pm

It's not like FRA doesn't have any LCC. WW and PC are just two examples although they are not as extreme as FR is.
I'm not exactly sure if I really want to see FR at FRA though. :?
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wenders825
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:30 pm

FRA? so next you're going to tell me they're going to get LHR slots?

no thanks
 
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mercure1
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:03 pm

Excellent.
As largest airline in Europe its time Ryanair takes more flying to primary airports. They have tip toe'd around for long enough. Fantastic if they begin offering choice and lower fares at heart of legacy hubs.

wenders825 wrote:
FRA? so next you're going to tell me they're going to get LHR slots?
no thanks

Sure why not. EasyJet has already said they would consider LHR, so Ryanair could one day do same.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:32 pm

LH748 wrote:
It's not like FRA doesn't have any LCC. WW and PC are just two examples although they are not as extreme as FR is.
I'm not exactly sure if I really want to see FR at FRA though. :?

They aren't comparable I would say. FR can expand like wildfire from one airport while WW and PC still operate from a hub and have connection passengers.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
SCQ83
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:02 pm

The day Air Berlin collapses, money-conscious Germans will need more budget flights to take them to their beloved Mallorca. Nothing surprising here.
 
ExDubai
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:23 pm

lesfalls wrote:
Not happy to hear this news. Hope that they don't stick around for too long.

Be sure they will and more to come..... how dot hey say in Germany "Geiz ist geil"
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:30 pm

Nice, but let's hope they won't give up HHN for it. After all, flights out of big airports are often more expensive than flights out of smaller airports so don't be surprised if they offer HHN-PMI cheaper than FRA-PMI. But it's nice to have a choice.
 
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:41 pm

There will be 4 routes (all Med services) and flying daily.
 
LGAviation
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:03 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
There will be 4 routes (all Med services) and flying daily.


That's pretty much how every FR in Germany starts out. It will be interesting to see how they develop but the potential for them definitely exists. Fares out of FRA are almost always by far more expensive than out of DUS, MUC or any other German airport. Being an LH loyal and flying domestically dozens of times, I have very ambiguous feelings about the move on the one hand welcoming competition on hopefully more routes while on the other hand seeing the struggles of LH, let's see whether they will commence EW service from MUC/FRA earlier. I would believe though that at least until T3 opens, a huge FR base is prevented by the lack of terminal space.
2018: ADD CPH DAR DEN DME DUB FRA HAH HAM IST JIB KEF LYR MEL OSL PEK PKC PVG RAK STN SVO SYD YVR
 
runway23
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:12 pm

JAmie2k9 wrote:
There will be 4 routes (all Med services) and flying daily.


Logic would point towards these being PMI, ALC, AGP and FAO.
 
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:14 pm

LGAviation wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
There will be 4 routes (all Med services) and flying daily.


That's pretty much how every FR in Germany starts out. It will be interesting to see how they develop but the potential for them definitely exists. Fares out of FRA are almost always by far more expensive than out of DUS, MUC or any other German airport. Being an LH loyal and flying domestically dozens of times, I have very ambiguous feelings about the move on the one hand welcoming competition on hopefully more routes while on the other hand seeing the struggles of LH, let's see whether they will commence EW service from MUC/FRA earlier. I would believe though that at least until T3 opens, a huge FR base is prevented by the lack of terminal space.


2 a/c base for these 4 routes, guess slots will be a big factor in future growth.
 
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:18 pm

runway23 wrote:
JAmie2k9 wrote:
There will be 4 routes (all Med services) and flying daily.


Logic would point towards these being PMI, ALC, AGP and FAO.


Not long to wait and find out :)
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:32 pm

From 28/03/2017:

FRA-AGP 07:10-10:15 D
AGP-FRA 10:50-14:00 D

FRA-PMI 06:55-09:15 D
PMI-FRA 09:55-12:30 D

FRA-FAO 15:00-17:25 D
FAO-FRA 18:15-22:45 D

FRA-ALC 15:50-18:35 D
ALC-FRA 19:45-22:45 D

I would not exclude changes/optimisation before next year. FRA S2017 slot allocation will be confirmed next week so things could improve.
 
runway23
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:52 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
From 28/03/2017:

FRA-AGP 07:10-10:15 D
AGP-FRA 10:50-14:00 D

FRA-PMI 06:55-09:15 D
PMI-FRA 09:55-12:30 D

FRA-FAO 15:00-17:25 D
FAO-FRA 18:15-22:45 D

FRA-ALC 15:50-18:35 D
ALC-FRA 19:45-22:45 D

I would not exclude changes/optimisation before next year. FRA S2017 slot allocation will be confirmed next week so things could improve.


I really don't get why FR are doing these with aircraft based in FRA. Would it not have been easier to fly these in from the respective destinations (bases) ? Especially seeing the horrific utilisation they get out of these aircraft.

I suppose the only real reason is if FR intends to expand into other markets and is using the early morning departures and evening arrivals as place holders for the time being - as it's not like the departure times makes a big difference on any of these markets.
 
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:06 am

With those 2245 arrivals, FR doesn't leave much room for delays but the long ground time in FRA indeed seems a little odd if it were to stay around given that they apparently sought quick turnaround assurances from Fraport.
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:21 am

runway23 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
I really don't get why FR are doing these with aircraft based in FRA. Would it not have been easier to fly these in from the respective destinations (bases) ? Especially seeing the horrific utilisation they get out of these aircraft.


Dont forget, FR generally does not overnight crews. One of the perks they advertise for working with FR ability to sleep in own bed every night.

With basing aircraft in FRA they can open a crew base as well.
mercure f-wtcc
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:33 am

Will never understand why anybody is against certain airlines flying somewhere. I know FR isn't loved, but they have an impressive operation and if there is an opportunity to decrease fares for everybody, it's a win as a consumer.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
JayBCNLON
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:19 am

I think it's a great strategy starting with destinations that are not primary LH destination in order not to get into full war with them. I heard that by next summer the number of destinations served from FRA might go up to 19 (!). Looking at CGN that might even include FRA-Berlin, germany's thickest route, presumably to SXF.

I welcome them even though I grew up next to FRA as the child of a LH manager.
 
OO-VEG
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:28 am

I would hardly call it competition for LH, this is competition for the holiday airlines.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:44 am

I hope they also come to DUS and MUC.
 
runway23
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:01 am

mercure1 wrote:
runway23 wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
I really don't get why FR are doing these with aircraft based in FRA. Would it not have been easier to fly these in from the respective destinations (bases) ? Especially seeing the horrific utilisation they get out of these aircraft.


Dont forget, FR generally does not overnight crews. One of the perks they advertise for working with FR ability to sleep in own bed every night.

With basing aircraft in FRA they can open a crew base as well.


That's not really the point though. They are starting 4 leisure routes and running them at (reported) times that would lend themselves more to business timed slots. On the other hand, the 4 routes they are rumoured to begin are all existing Ryanair bases where they could easily operate flights into FRA from at other times during the day, presumably with quicker turnaround times and thus aircraft utilisation. This would negate the need for creating a base in FRA.

That leads me to believe that these leisure routes are only a temporary measure before the slots are potentially used in another way, probably on more business centric routes (SXF, HAM, MXP, STN ?) and to displace these leisure routes to operating from their respective bases. I'd guess domestic German routes will probably happen from FRA as FR are very keen on continuing to build their German operation. Thinking about it, the slots are very good and gradually building FRA up makes sense if they can get some other slots. Worst case, FR are operating leisure routes with lots of demand.
 
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:28 am

I don't get why ppl don't like this. With the financial situation worsening around Europe, and with many who can't afford a vacation on LH, An airline that offers flights from that airport for the price of headphones is excellent.
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PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:30 am

Just came to my mind that basing Crews around FRA would be difficult for the Crews to pay the rents here with the "salary" FR pays them. Kelsterbach, Raunheim and Moerfelden and all the other places from where FRA can be reached by public Transport are all on the high end, commuting by car is prohibited by the parking fees.

As to the destinations, if they would serve HAM and SXF from here LH would certainly react Price wise, but as Long as TXL is open that would not be a direct competition anyhow. But a nice idea to fly frpm here to Berlin without baggage, just for the Basic Price and eturn the same day. Which means, even at FRA new biz can be created withpout taking away biz from the competition. With bags etc FR would be no match for many, I'd prefer the all in rates by LH.
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PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:35 am

OA940 wrote:
I don't get why ppl don't like this. With the financial situation worsening around Europe, and with many who can't afford a vacation on LH, An airline that offers flights from that airport for the price of headphones is excellent.


LH offered FRA to BCN for 89 € today. People get a seat with their Name on it for that Price and can take baggage as well and can print their Boarding pass at the Airport for no extra Charge. Don't get fooled by the Basic fares.

I just said that flight Crews will have difficulties paying their rent with the wages they get.FR passengers must know that the cheapo fares are at the expense of the FR employees as well.
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SCQ83
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:55 am

PanHAM wrote:
Just came to my mind that basing Crews around FRA would be difficult for the Crews to pay the rents here with the "salary" FR pays them. Kelsterbach, Raunheim and Moerfelden and all the other places from where FRA can be reached by public Transport are all on the high end, commuting by car is prohibited by the parking fees.


Ryanair has bases at very expensive places. What about London? Bad excuse.

I don't know about Ryanair's salaries, but maybe someone can comment. I doubt Eurowings' or those new bases at LH are millionaires.

OA940 wrote:
I don't get why ppl don't like this. With the financial situation worsening around Europe, and with many who can't afford a vacation on LH, An airline that offers flights from that airport for the price of headphones is excellent.


Specially in Germany, where it is obvious the economic deterioration in the last 1 or 2 years. Just walk around Frankfurt or Cologne and the number of people begging or looking for trash is mind blowing (and no, many of those are not refugees). Also Germans are well known for being "savvy" (the country of LIDL after all), so no matter what our pro-Lufthansa friends say in the forum, they will jump at Ryanair's cheap fares in a heartbeat.

PanHAM wrote:
LH offered FRA to BCN for 89 € today. People get a seat with their Name on it for that Price and can take baggage as well and can print their Boarding pass at the Airport for no extra Charge. Don't get fooled by the Basic fares.


You couldn't take a worst example.

BCN is mostly a leisure market and one of the few destinations where there is low cost competition (VY on BCN-FRA). What about pretty much any other European capital where Lufthansa faces no competition?
 
ExDubai
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:14 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Will never understand why anybody is against certain airlines flying somewhere. I know FR isn't loved, but they have an impressive operation and if there is an opportunity to decrease fares for everybody, it's a win as a consumer.

And it's a loss from the point of labour rights.
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:18 am

Flight FR400 is approaching Frankfurt, here the view from the cockpit:

Image
;-)

https://www.flightradar24.com/b7dfce4
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:33 am

@ SCQ83 - I wrote down a thought, not an excuse. Flight Crew is certainly better off at HHN, although that rural Location has seen rents going up with the Airport. The Basic salary of a FA is said to be around 1500,00. That equals DM 3000 and roughly that is what I paid an experienced Export Clerk (airfreight) in 1978. Except that this worth at least twice as much 40 years ago than what 1500€ can buy today.

As to the beggars, they are Romanian / Bulgarian Clans, that is imported organized crime and the politicians should do something about that. . But even that is creating wealth, you should see the mansions of the clan chiefs back home.

As to the BCN fate, I picked a dandom fare that was advertised in a nationwide paper this morning and it Shows that LH is up to compete. They just have to convince their unions that the comüpany can exist either that way or not at all in the Long run. In any case, LH/EW employees in Germany won't be paid less than what FR pays. And LH / EW passengers will get full compensation if their flights are delayed without having to sue in DUB.

And finally, just in the news, LH takes up the challenge and contemplates to bring EW to FRA as well.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
SCQ83
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:43 am

PanHAM wrote:
@ SCQ83 - I wrote down a thought, not an excuse. Flight Crew is certainly better off at HHN, although that rural Location has seen rents going up with the Airport. The Basic salary of a FA is said to be around 1500,00. That equals DM 3000 and roughly that is what I paid an experienced Export Clerk (airfreight) in 1978. Except that this worth at least twice as much 40 years ago than what 1500€ can buy today.


Probably (and unfortunately) many people live in Frankfurt city (not Hahn) with the less than 1500 euro a month. That is the reality. So your point about Ryanair not being able to recruit people at FRA on those salaries is, for the bad or the good, not going to happen, like it or not.

PanHAM wrote:
As to the BCN fate, I picked a dandom fare that was advertised in a nationwide paper this morning and it Shows that LH is up to compete. They just have to convince their unions that the comüpany can exist either that way or not at all in the Long run. In any case, LH/EW employees in Germany won't be paid less than what FR pays. And LH / EW passengers will get full compensation if their flights are delayed without having to sue in DUB.

And finally, just in the news, LH takes up the challenge and contemplates to bring EW to FRA as well.


LH competes where there is competition. Not surprising. If there was no Vueling, they will not charge 89 EUR.
 
372375
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:09 am

lesfalls wrote:
Not happy to hear this news. Hope that they don't stick around for too long.

LH748 wrote:
I'm not exactly sure if I really want to see FR at FRA though. :?


OA940 wrote:
I don't get why ppl don't like this.

Exactly my thought, I really do wonder the arguments behind this "not wanting to see FR at FRA"
Don't like FR for whatever reason, then simply don't fly with them?
Is it because more competition = lower prices = they don't like cheaper flights?
Don't like the livery?

Anyways, congrats to FR and FRA from my side :)
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:17 am

The € 1500 is gross pay, deduct taxes, health, retirement and unemlpoyement insurance a single will take less than a third home. Either you Need another Job with flexible hours or you commute from Fulda which can be a nightmare when you start working at 5 am, or try to get home when the aircraft lands with a delay slightly b4 midnight.

Competetive pricing is normal Business behaviour. Vueling charges a couple of hundred € on that route when few seats are left. There is nothing surprising about that, it would be surprising if LH would not take the challenge. FRA won't be as cosy for FR as HHN is.
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accargofra
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:23 am

SCQ83 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
Just came to my mind that basing Crews around FRA would be difficult for the Crews to pay the rents here with the "salary" FR pays them. Kelsterbach, Raunheim and Moerfelden and all the other places from where FRA can be reached by public Transport are all on the high end, commuting by car is prohibited by the parking fees.


I doubt Eurowings' or those new bases at LH are millionaires.

no they are for sure not:
staring salary for the new hires starts with 1500€, including ALL extra worktime like shifts (nights), weekends and public holidays
and of course minus taxes (based on the country you are based)

scource: http://www.kollektivvertrag.at/kv/aua-bordpersonal-ang
 
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angelopga
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:40 am

Confirmed:

New Frankfurt Am Main Base (No. 85) To Open

FIRST LOW FARES AIRLINE BASE IN GERMANY’S BIGGEST AIRPORT

Ryanair, Europe’s No 1 airline, today (2 Nov) announced it will open a base at Frankfurt am Main (No. 85), from March 2017, with 2 based aircraft (an investment of $200m) and 4 new routes to Alicante, Faro, Malaga and Palma. Ryanair’s lower fares and “Always Getting Better” customer experience programme will deliver over 400,000 customers p.a. at Frankfurt Airport as follows:

2 based aircraft ($200m)
4 new routes: Alicante (daily), Faro (daily), Malaga (daily) and Palma (daily)
28 weekly flights
400,000 customers p.a.

- See more at: http://corporate.ryanair.com/news/news/ ... 3OXHV.dpuf
 
ExDubai
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:46 am

accargofra wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
PanHAM wrote:
Just came to my mind that basing Crews around FRA would be difficult for the Crews to pay the rents here with the "salary" FR pays them. Kelsterbach, Raunheim and Moerfelden and all the other places from where FRA can be reached by public Transport are all on the high end, commuting by car is prohibited by the parking fees.


I doubt Eurowings' or those new bases at LH are millionaires.

no they are for sure not:
staring salary for the new hires starts with 1500€, including ALL extra worktime like shifts (nights), weekends and public holidays
and of course minus taxes (based on the country you are based)

scource: http://www.kollektivvertrag.at/kv/aua-bordpersonal-ang


That's the AUA contract, not LH...

As far as I remember the guarantee at EW is 21.000 €/Year for the new joiners and 24.400 €/year as max. plus sector pay above 281 sectors. Per Diem is on top (o.k, the per diem is more like a joke (1.40€/hour away from home base), at least they pay something..
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven
 
oldannyboy
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:33 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
Will never understand why anybody is against certain airlines flying somewhere. I know FR isn't loved, but they have an impressive operation and if there is an opportunity to decrease fares for everybody, it's a win as a consumer.



Just couldn't agree more with you, exactly. Just cannot get over the fact that some people love to hate FR. Reality is they have expanded the European market so much... they've brought service to so many regional, marginal, neglected, forgotten, underserved parts of this great big Continent; they've helped lower fares and on top of this they fly a fleet of brand new, safe, relatively comfortable jets and offer dependable, safe, frequent service with excellent on-time performance. I mean, why moan about them. And I still believe that despite all of above they've actually not been taking all that business away from the legacies... Most FR customers are probably people who would not otherwise be flying at all.
Right here on this forum I've read that someone has just paid 600Euro for a return flight from (I think) Germany to Brussels...C'mon, it's shameful.. You can fly across the Atlantic for said amount. The fact that LH is perhaps offering you a cold sandwich and a drink doesn't make that price any less shameful. Those are prices shaped by a market stuck in the era of monopolies and it is about time to get to grips with reality. LH will always be LH, and will manage to survive the impact of a FR base at its home turf.... They -just like BA, AF, KL, etc. - make the big money on long-hauls and transferring passengers. They've shown time and time again that they don't care about short haul traffic... And consumers no longer want to pay extortionate amounts of currency to have the privilege of flying their sore ole' butt on an LH slimline seat (now, those are torture, you wish they had they same seats as FR!)..
FRA can happily do with some more competition, and traffic stimulus. If anything FR will mostly be flying to the usual array on sun spots...we can only wish they started to fly to BRU, AMS, FCO, MAD, etc...
And for those poor souls who fly as cabin crew for FR, well, it's not as if somebody is forcing them....They can always apply for a job at LH.. not sure they would be getting a much fatter salary...
And BTW, a good friend's son is flying for them and loves every minute of it, so it can't possibly be always all that bad for everyone all the time...
 
PanHAM
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:36 am

The typical PR BS, "investing" 200 mio at FRA and so on. As a Journalist I would have asked them what the current book value of the designated aircraft is and not that could be called an Investment. The start-up costs, including their Promotion flight to FRA today can be called an Investment but not the deployment of 2 movable assets.

LH's Response will be that they bring EW to FRA and ask for the same handling reductions that were given to FR. . I'd ove to see them going head on.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
ExDubai
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Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:43 am

First response of LH. The demand the same discount as FR. LH CEO Spohr in the local news.

http://hessenschau.de/wirtschaft/erster ... g-100.html
"If we need to bring EW to FRA, we will do it."
"LH will not pay more then FR" . That will save us 200-300 Mio. €/year"
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9719
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:55 am

LH is taking up the gauntlet. In Addition to the above Statement Mr. Spohr also said that they will buy aircraft on the second Hand market as well. Aircraft have a longer lease of life and the second Hand market is favorable right now,
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
sofianec
Posts: 171
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:39 am

Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:03 pm

Most locals in/around Frankfurt cannot afford Lufthansa. Try to fly LH with a family of 6 and you'll see why we've personally taken mostly Ryanair, WizzAir out of far away places such as Hahn or Cologne/Bonn which are 2 - 3 hour away from FRA.

The Airport is largely underutilized and there's plenty of free capacity and gates to welcome more low-cost carriers. Lufthansa has been enjoying a sort of a monopoly both in FRA and down south in MUC it's nauseating. For years in Germany we were only allowed to use Deutsche Bahn and pay often very high prices, with long-haul busses things have changed dramatically. Same I hope with Ryanair starting in FRA - they will be packed to the brims.

I don't understand why some people here are so anti-Ryanair. I've never after hundreds of flights on them had a bad experience. Yes, I hate the soliciting of food/drinks/scratch cards but it is what it is. Being able to take 3 adults and 3 kids to Malta (from CGN) for 200€ round trip is priceless (LH fare from FRA was 1'760€).

As for Lufthansa out of Frankfurt they are competitive only to the US/Canada. To Asia I've mostly found them to be more expensive than EK. Another issue is that LH sells tickets between US and many places beyond Frankfurt cheaper than from here.

I welcome Ryanair in FRA with both hands up.

.
A350WARP
 
User avatar
accargofra
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:23 pm

Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:24 pm

ExDubai wrote:
accargofra wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:


I doubt Eurowings' or those new bases at LH are millionaires.

no they are for sure not:
staring salary for the new hires starts with 1500€, including ALL extra worktime like shifts (nights), weekends and public holidays
and of course minus taxes (based on the country you are based)

scource: http://www.kollektivvertrag.at/kv/aua-bordpersonal-ang


That's the AUA contract, not LH...

As far as I remember the guarantee at EW is 21.000 €/Year for the new joiners and 24.400 €/year as max. plus sector pay above 281 sectors. Per Diem is on top (o.k, the per diem is more like a joke (1.40€/hour away from home base), at least they pay something..


yes - the EW contract i found states 21000/24400€ a year - for those FA based in Germany = equal to 1750€/2033€ a month.

but most new planes of EW will be registered in Austria (and staffed with the above mentioned contract/conditions or even less?) - so lots of new FA's will get that pay at the end of the day.
Last edited by accargofra on Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5809
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:27 pm

Btw I don't understand why this stuff about Frankfurt and cost of housing. FRA is not even a particularly expensive place in Germany (for housing), at least compared to Munich or Hamburg. Not to mention compared to major cities like Paris or London.

So long story short, there are probably dozens of cities in Europe as expensive as Frankfurt which have low cost carriers based, whether those are Ryanair or others.
 
ExDubai
Posts: 229
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:52 pm

Re: Ryanair starting FRA? Will the empire strike back?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:39 pm

accargofra wrote:
ExDubai wrote:
accargofra wrote:

I doubt Eurowings' or those new bases at LH are millionaires.

no they are for sure not:
staring salary for the new hires starts with 1500€, including ALL extra worktime like shifts (nights), weekends and public holidays
and of course minus taxes (based on the country you are based)

scource: http://www.kollektivvertrag.at/kv/aua-bordpersonal-ang


That's the AUA contract, not LH...

As far as I remember the guarantee at EW is 21.000 €/Year for the new joiners and 24.400 €/year as max. plus sector pay above 281 sectors. Per Diem is on top (o.k, the per diem is more like a joke (1.40€/hour away from home base), at least they pay something..


yes - the EW contract i found states 21000/24400€ a year - for those FA based in Germany.

but most new planes of EW will be registered in Austria (and staffed with the above mentioned contract/conditions or even less?) - so lots of new FA's will get that pay at the end of the day.


Frankly, don't know much more about the CC working conditions. From the flight deck point of view the EW salary and benefits are IMHO o.k, not great but o.k for an LCC. At least you don't need to sit on the stick when sick.....
Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven

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