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ER757
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:33 pm

"1 - SEA should make the necessary upgrades to get the A380 in here. I know Emirates would like that and I could see BA and LH possibly taking advantage as well. If SEA wants to play with the bigger cities, they need to make this happen"

Yes - agree 100%

"9 - I just don't picture direct flights to Australia or New Zealand."

Ditto this as well - People can go HA via HNL to SYD or AKL or do simple connection through LAX or SFO

"13 - More freight? Could SEA take business from Anchorage perhaps?"

Could be - ANC is more or less just a fuel stop on the way to/from Asia - cargo planes with longer legs should be able to get to SEA where the rte's actually freight to be had
 
b6sea
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:56 pm

I definitely agree that YVR is easier for International pax and will probably always punch above its weight in terms of international pax, especially compared to SEA, because it's the primary pacific gateway for Canada with large, deep ties to a number of Pacific communities. Seattle just doesn't fill that role despite being a larger and significantly wealthier metro area in terms of household income.

I think the growth in international flying at SEA has come as a surprise to the Port of Seattle, who aren't exactly known for moving very quickly on such things anyway, but hopefully they realize that the growth isn't going to subside and can plan ahead instead of simply playing catch up with projects that will fill today's demand tomorrow. Unfortunately, I think that's what they're doing right now.

As far as traffic, I agree that traffic within Metro Vancouver to YVR is better than traffic within the Seattle area is to SEA, but I still maintain that driving to Vancouver, even from Everett or Marysville is still not exactly convenient due to the distance and unpredictable wait times at the border, unless you have a Nexus card. An hour in traffic on I-5 or 405, though extremely annoying, is still shorter than driving three hours to Canada. Maybe if you live in Skagit County or Bellingham, Vancouver begins to make some sense, but south of that, I don't know that it does.

On MIA, my understanding is that as long as AS is in bed with AA that AA will keep that route while AS will serve FLL. I would love to see AS take that over or operate it alongside AA, but it seems somewhat unlikely. As someone who used to fly pretty frequently to south and central Florida, DL captures a ton of that traffic through ATL, but also I'm not sure MIA is a huge draw to people from Seattle. California is closer, there aren't an extraordinary number of business ties to South Florida, and you can connect to Latin America through LAX, DFW, and IAH, so it seems like those all pull traffic that might originate in SEA and be traveling to or though MIA.
 
b6sea
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:02 pm

On the freight issue, I begin to wonder whether SEA has the space to take over ANC's cargo capacity. Does anyone know anything about the space issue at SEA? It seems like if the Port of Seattle wants to add new terminals, which they'll need to do at some point, they'll have to move some of the existing cargo facilities and maybe there's more room to relocate and expand the cargo facilities, but I'm not sure where that would happen. It seems like SEA may miss out on some of the benefit from longer-range cargo aircraft because of this. But that's just me thinking out loud, it's possible I'm missing something.
 
Chugach
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:26 pm

b6sea wrote:
On the freight issue, I begin to wonder whether SEA has the space to take over ANC's cargo capacity. Does anyone know anything about the space issue at SEA? It seems like if the Port of Seattle wants to add new terminals, which they'll need to do at some point, they'll have to move some of the existing cargo facilities and maybe there's more room to relocate and expand the cargo facilities, but I'm not sure where that would happen. It seems like SEA may miss out on some of the benefit from longer-range cargo aircraft because of this. But that's just me thinking out loud, it's possible I'm missing something.


I don't think SEA has the space for an ANC-level operation.

Anchorage's problem is going to be when cargo aircraft reach the tipping point to fly from MEM/SDF to Asia profitably with a full payload and enough fuel.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:12 pm

1 - SEA should make the necessary upgrades to get the A380 in here. I know Emirates would like that and I could see BA and LH possibly taking advantage as well. If SEA wants to play with the bigger cities, they need to make this happen"

I don't think the Port has the money to make that kind of investment. Plus I think the Port is perfectly happy not having that behemoth of an airplane at SEA.

I don't think SEA has the space for an ANC-level operation.

SEA has no room, period!
 
rentonview
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:16 pm

b6sea wrote:
On the freight issue, I begin to wonder whether SEA has the space to take over ANC's cargo capacity. Does anyone know anything about the space issue at SEA? It seems like if the Port of Seattle wants to add new terminals, which they'll need to do at some point, they'll have to move some of the existing cargo facilities and maybe there's more room to relocate and expand the cargo facilities, but I'm not sure where that would happen. It seems like SEA may miss out on some of the benefit from longer-range cargo aircraft because of this. But that's just me thinking out loud, it's possible I'm missing something.


Actually, there is a long term plan to relocate some cargo and maintenance facilities to the extreme southeast of the current airfield, on Port-owned property. Quite a bit of grading will be required, as well as an extension of the lid over S 188th St. Certainly, SEA will never have the space to become a huge cargo hub, but hopefully it will be able to accommodate reasonable growth in the future.

The image below is from https://www.portseattle.org/Business/Construction-Projects/Airport-Projects/Pages/airport-master-plan.aspx

Image
 
b6sea
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:36 pm

Yeah, I knew about the plan to eventually move stuff over to the Southeast area, but that also has to include the displaced Alaska and Delta hangars in addition to the cargo facilities across from the cemetery. It just seems like we're running low on space pretty fast. <--- Hope I win the award for most obvious revelation ever in an Airliners.net thread with this comment.

Another thing is that DHL (ABX) and UPS don't even use SEA, they use BFI for cargo and Atlas Air uses PAE, I think. It seems like pure air cargo operations would be better served at another airport in the region with space constraints becoming more and more of a reality at SEA, but I'm not sure BFI has the room for that, maybe PAE? Who knows.
 
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ER757
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:53 pm

b6sea wrote:
Yeah, I knew about the plan to eventually move stuff over to the Southeast area, but that also has to include the displaced Alaska and Delta hangars in addition to the cargo facilities across from the cemetery. It just seems like we're running low on space pretty fast. <--- Hope I win the award for most obvious revelation ever in an Airliners.net thread with this comment.

Another thing is that DHL (ABX) and UPS don't even use SEA, they use BFI for cargo and Atlas Air uses PAE, I think. It seems like pure air cargo operations would be better served at another airport in the region with space constraints becoming more and more of a reality at SEA, but I'm not sure BFI has the room for that, maybe PAE? Who knows.


DHL moved back to SEA from BFI in May. Was informed it was because Amazon was taking the space at BFI that they were using. Don't know how factual that is, but nevertheless, DHL is back to SEA
 
dc10lover
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:58 am

It would be swell if AS codeshares all the different airlines in YVR. Just hop on QX to YVR then connect from there. I think YVR will always be better than SEA for International Flights.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
sv11
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:03 am

How about Air India SEA-DEL using 787 or 777-300ER. Seattle has a large indian population.

sv11
 
b6sea
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:02 am

sv11 wrote:
How about Air India SEA-DEL using 787 or 777-300ER. Seattle has a large indian population.

sv11


I wonder if DL would ever give that a shot. You know, when they get around to expanding the Seattle hub some more, because it's clearly not a high priority right now.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:20 am

ER757 wrote:
b6sea wrote:
Yeah, I knew about the plan to eventually move stuff over to the Southeast area, but that also has to include the displaced Alaska and Delta hangars in addition to the cargo facilities across from the cemetery. It just seems like we're running low on space pretty fast. <--- Hope I win the award for most obvious revelation ever in an Airliners.net thread with this comment.

Another thing is that DHL (ABX) and UPS don't even use SEA, they use BFI for cargo and Atlas Air uses PAE, I think. It seems like pure air cargo operations would be better served at another airport in the region with space constraints becoming more and more of a reality at SEA, but I'm not sure BFI has the room for that, maybe PAE? Who knows.


DHL moved back to SEA from BFI in May. Was informed it was because Amazon was taking the space at BFI that they were using. Don't know how factual that is, but nevertheless, DHL is back to SEA


Ironically, Prime Air flies to SEA and not BFI. Right now, there is a new hangar going up at the old DHL site.
 
seat1a
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:50 am

Perhaps Singapore Airlines with their new A350s, 3X/week?
 
BA
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:26 pm

flybynight wrote:
11 - Why is it so hard to get a flight between SEA and Miami? DL and AS...can't this work?


AA flies MIA-SEA daily on an A321 (used to be 757s). It's the longest scheduled flight in the lower 48 states.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
Viscount724
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:47 pm

redadeco wrote:
Pretty much one post out of 2 on this thread has the word YVR on it :) It shows how opening a new international route out of SEA highly depends on what's going on 150mi away.

Vancouver has an international feel that Seattle lacks, if an international carrier plans to start a route to the PNW then YVR comes first miles ahead of SEA.
Then all what you need to attract potential traffic from SEA is a partnership with AS.

I also would exclude a potential CX service to SEA, besides the existing DL service what makes CX very successful at YVR does not apply to SEA (Vancouver is home to a huge HK diaspora) unless CX is targeting connecting Indians and Viets.


YVR also has a much nicer airport than SEA.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.3824840
 
b6sea
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:08 pm

Viscount724 wrote:

YVR also has a much nicer airport than SEA.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.3824840


If that was the primary factor in deciding where to provide service there would be no commercial air service to Los Angeles or San Diego or Chicago or New York or Boston... There are so many airports that have major problems on orders of magnitude beyond what SEA faces that seem to manage to make things work, so I don't entirely understand the point being made.

SEA is really not a bad airport, I think it's probably average to slightly above average for major US airports. There's definitely room for improvement, but it also works pretty well for the service it sees and has fairly decent, comfortable passenger amenities. The lounge situation (esp. for AS passengers) could be better and the vehicle traffic at peak times can be a hassle. Immigration is a problem, as at many major airports. I definitely think all of the problems facing the airport are being addressed by the Port of Seattle though, and the majority of passengers have a pretty decent experience. I think that's much better than you can say for a lot of other legacy airports in the US and elsewhere.

As far as YVR goes, of the 10 or so times I've flown through there it's never really done anything for me, but maybe it's a different experience when you're not flying transborder. I don't know, I can list things about YVR I don't like, just like I can with SEA. If the governance structure of the airport is the most important factor to the millions of passengers that fly through an airport each year, then I guess maybe I don't really care about which airport is number one according to CAPA. Sure YVR innovates, and kudos to them, they deserve the recognition for the work they do, but you can be the greenest airport in the world, the best managed in the world, and still be a nightmare for passengers.
 
b6sea
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:27 pm

PS - If you haven't been to Seattle or aren't familiar with how Seattle people talk about Seattle, we complain about all of the stuff we have and compare it to everyone else relentlessly, when what we have isn't really that bad, and in some cases, is quite good. So, if you haven't been to SEA, and you've only read about it on A.net from Seattle natives, you might have the false impression that the airport is about to fall apart, is literally impossible to get to even for folks who live within a mile of it, has no gate space, is run by corrupt incompetent idiots, has a single security checkpoint with a single metal detector and a single TSA agent who only works part time and that the airport is actually getting physically smaller every year. I can assure you much of this is Seattle hyperbole, it's actually a pretty good airport.
 
Viscount724
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:11 pm

b6sea wrote:
Viscount724 wrote:

YVR also has a much nicer airport than SEA.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... -1.3824840


If that was the primary factor in deciding where to provide service there would be no commercial air service to Los Angeles or San Diego or Chicago or New York or Boston... There are so many airports that have major problems on orders of magnitude beyond what SEA faces that seem to manage to make things work, so I don't entirely understand the point being made.



My point was that if I was connecting from Asia or Europe to a city that has service via both YVR and SEA, and fares were competitive, I would choose the connection via YVR since the airport is a more pleasant connecting hub.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:57 am

PDX757 wrote:
Personally I would love to see Aeroflot resume service. It was axed over 10 years ago, but from what I recall it operated for quite a long time, including some flights to the Russian far east. IIRC the flight from SVO continued on to SFO,maybe the SEA stop became obsolete when longer range aircraft came online.

I would, too. Getting to the Russian Far East is a bit of a pain.......those connections via Asia don't work all that well.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:17 am

NichCage wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Would love to see SK return with their CPH flights. But not likely before they start taking A350s.


While I would like to see flights on SK between SEA & CPH to resume, there is something you need to know first about the route when it was still operating.

SK flew between SEA & CPH for over 40 years I believe. It was a very historic route, but there were many problems it faced before it got cut. Before airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, and Icelandair came to SEA, there were much less flights to Europe. British Airways flew to LHR, Northwest Airlines flew to AMS, and SAS flew to CPH. However, with SAS struggling to be profitable between the years of 2007 and 2012, they had to make many changes. I believe at the time that with all the competiton that came to SEA from Europe, which was Icelandair, Air France, and Lufthansa, caused SAS to struggle in SEA. They were already having probelms with being profitable, and they had to cut long haul flights. They cut SEA because I think it was not profitable for them, and I don't think they will resume it. The CPH-SEA market must be big, and if someone could provide the yearly amount of passengers that travel on the route that would be great. Even if a large amount of passengers fly the route every year, airlines like BA and LH must carry passengers between SEA & CPH much better than SAS would if they restarted the route.

If you found a source which said SAS will come back to SEA with the A350, I would like a link to it. However, no doubt SAS will not consider returning to SEA because it is not profitable for them to operate the route again.

Please correct me if I am wrong on some points, and also how many passengers per year travel between SEA & CPH?


What carried the SEA-CPH service was not so much the local traffic to CPH........much more to Sweden, and especially Norway. As for the SFO-CPH flight trip is mostly for the benefit of having a UA hub feeding it. Really not that much local demand at SFO, compared to up in the Northwest. It's all about the connections.

SK could probably put SEA back on, but also, much depends on UA. It won't happen unless UA makes SEA a hub. And that won't happen until they get NRT service back. Which is slim to none.
 
MaxTrimm
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:12 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
alot of people said DY but it usually flies to touristic places, which Seattle dosent really offer(at least to INTL pax). i really think that CTU with Sichuan Airlines might work(perhaps another secondary china market).

I second the Sichuan idea. Maybe a long shot, but Jin Air out of South Korea seems like the kind of airline that would look at SEA. They have 777's, and I'm pretty sure they fly to HNL.
 
wedgetail737
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Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:17 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
alot of people said DY but it usually flies to touristic places, which Seattle dosent really offer(at least to INTL pax). i really think that CTU with Sichuan Airlines might work(perhaps another secondary china market).


What? Seattle and the surrounding communities offer many things for tourists to do...more so during the summer months. Many Alaska cruises call Seattle ports-of-call. You have Pike Place Market and Seattle Center (Space Needle). There various Puget Sound cruises as well as cruises on Lake Washington. With Boeing here, we have Museum of Flight and the Future Flight Museum, where you can get a tour of the Everett Boeing Plant. I think that's just a drop in the bucket.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5160
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:23 pm

With Icelandair well entrenched at SEA and PDX and their codeshare with AS, I think SK would have a hard time re-attracting customers here.

I second the Sichuan idea. Maybe a long shot, but Jin Air out of South Korea seems like the kind of airline that would look at SEA. They have 777's, and I'm pretty sure they fly to HNL.

With DL, KE and Asiana in the ICN-SEA market, I doubt you will see Jin Air or any other subsidiary starting service here. Sichuan Airlines currently has its attention on LAX and maybe SFO. I think China Southern will be the next Chinese carrier to SEA.
 
BoeingGuy
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:16 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
PDX757 wrote:
Personally I would love to see Aeroflot resume service. It was axed over 10 years ago, but from what I recall it operated for quite a long time, including some flights to the Russian far east. IIRC the flight from SVO continued on to SFO,maybe the SEA stop became obsolete when longer range aircraft came online.

I would, too. Getting to the Russian Far East is a bit of a pain.......those connections via Asia don't work all that well.


It's been asked on A.net before if AS has any plans to return to Russia Far-East. Insiders say no. The MD-80 was not the right plane for it at all. Seems like AS could give the route a go with the 737-700.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6313
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Sun Nov 06, 2016 8:19 pm

BA wrote:
flybynight wrote:
11 - Why is it so hard to get a flight between SEA and Miami? DL and AS...can't this work?


AA flies MIA-SEA daily on an A321 (used to be 757s). It's the longest scheduled flight in the lower 48 states.


Actually, SEA-MIA on AA was a 738 in the past year when I flew it. I didn't realize it is now an A321. Back before it was discontinued around 2001, the original AA SEA-MIA route rotated around between a 763, 762, or 757 depending on season.
 
NichCage
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Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:43 pm

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:07 am

Freshside3 wrote:
NichCage wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Would love to see SK return with their CPH flights. But not likely before they start taking A350s.


While I would like to see flights on SK between SEA & CPH to resume, there is something you need to know first about the route when it was still operating.

SK flew between SEA & CPH for over 40 years I believe. It was a very historic route, but there were many problems it faced before it got cut. Before airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, and Icelandair came to SEA, there were much less flights to Europe. British Airways flew to LHR, Northwest Airlines flew to AMS, and SAS flew to CPH. However, with SAS struggling to be profitable between the years of 2007 and 2012, they had to make many changes. I believe at the time that with all the competiton that came to SEA from Europe, which was Icelandair, Air France, and Lufthansa, caused SAS to struggle in SEA. They were already having probelms with being profitable, and they had to cut long haul flights. They cut SEA because I think it was not profitable for them, and I don't think they will resume it. The CPH-SEA market must be big, and if someone could provide the yearly amount of passengers that travel on the route that would be great. Even if a large amount of passengers fly the route every year, airlines like BA and LH must carry passengers between SEA & CPH much better than SAS would if they restarted the route.

If you found a source which said SAS will come back to SEA with the A350, I would like a link to it. However, no doubt SAS will not consider returning to SEA because it is not profitable for them to operate the route again.

Please correct me if I am wrong on some points, and also how many passengers per year travel between SEA & CPH?


What carried the SEA-CPH service was not so much the local traffic to CPH........much more to Sweden, and especially Norway. As for the SFO-CPH flight trip is mostly for the benefit of having a UA hub feeding it. Really not that much local demand at SFO, compared to up in the Northwest. It's all about the connections.

SK could probably put SEA back on, but also, much depends on UA. It won't happen unless UA makes SEA a hub. And that won't happen until they get NRT service back. Which is slim to none.


I understand. SEA-CPH is about Norway and Sweden connections, nice to know.

Do passengers coming off CPH-SFO connect to other destinations in the USA, and do passengers coming off SFO-CPH connect on SAS to destinations in Europe?

What passengers fly CPH-SFO? I would mostly assume passengers from Scandinavia. Do domestic connections on UA feed the SFO-CPH route?

When SAS operated flights between SEA & CPH, did passengers coming from CPH connect on UA to domestic destinations from SEA like SFO & LAX?

Please answer the further questions I have, thanks for the information.
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1591
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:22 am

NichCage wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
NichCage wrote:

While I would like to see flights on SK between SEA & CPH to resume, there is something you need to know first about the route when it was still operating.

SK flew between SEA & CPH for over 40 years I believe. It was a very historic route, but there were many problems it faced before it got cut. Before airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, and Icelandair came to SEA, there were much less flights to Europe. British Airways flew to LHR, Northwest Airlines flew to AMS, and SAS flew to CPH. However, with SAS struggling to be profitable between the years of 2007 and 2012, they had to make many changes. I believe at the time that with all the competiton that came to SEA from Europe, which was Icelandair, Air France, and Lufthansa, caused SAS to struggle in SEA. They were already having probelms with being profitable, and they had to cut long haul flights. They cut SEA because I think it was not profitable for them, and I don't think they will resume it. The CPH-SEA market must be big, and if someone could provide the yearly amount of passengers that travel on the route that would be great. Even if a large amount of passengers fly the route every year, airlines like BA and LH must carry passengers between SEA & CPH much better than SAS would if they restarted the route.

If you found a source which said SAS will come back to SEA with the A350, I would like a link to it. However, no doubt SAS will not consider returning to SEA because it is not profitable for them to operate the route again.

Please correct me if I am wrong on some points, and also how many passengers per year travel between SEA & CPH?


What carried the SEA-CPH service was not so much the local traffic to CPH........much more to Sweden, and especially Norway. As for the SFO-CPH flight trip is mostly for the benefit of having a UA hub feeding it. Really not that much local demand at SFO, compared to up in the Northwest. It's all about the connections.

SK could probably put SEA back on, but also, much depends on UA. It won't happen unless UA makes SEA a hub. And that won't happen until they get NRT service back. Which is slim to none.


I understand. SEA-CPH is about Norway and Sweden connections, nice to know.

Do passengers coming off CPH-SFO connect to other destinations in the USA, and do passengers coming off SFO-CPH connect on SAS to destinations in Europe?

What passengers fly CPH-SFO? I would mostly assume passengers from Scandinavia. Do domestic connections on UA feed the SFO-CPH route?

When SAS operated flights between SEA & CPH, did passengers coming from CPH connect on UA to domestic destinations from SEA like SFO & LAX?

Please answer the further questions I have, thanks for the information.


Some SFO/LAX people were on the SK flight out of SEA.....but really not all that many. Keep in mind, you have options via LHR/CDG/EWR/ORD/AMS to get to Scandinavia.

But there are is some traffic between Denmark and Santa Barbara, too. SK used to have some people connect from non-partner QX, with a 7-hour layover, rather than dealing with double-connections at SFO/LAX, before coming to SEA.......although the majority would be on UA with the extra stop.

It's easier now, out of SBA, with only one stop. UA has a significant amount of connection feed options for most other western markets. And likewise, from CPH to other parts of Europe.

I would have to check with my SFO friends to find out who's going where, though.....a very tricky market to figure out.....
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1591
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:27 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Freshside3 wrote:
PDX757 wrote:
Personally I would love to see Aeroflot resume service. It was axed over 10 years ago, but from what I recall it operated for quite a long time, including some flights to the Russian far east. IIRC the flight from SVO continued on to SFO,maybe the SEA stop became obsolete when longer range aircraft came online.

I would, too. Getting to the Russian Far East is a bit of a pain.......those connections via Asia don't work all that well.


It's been asked on A.net before if AS has any plans to return to Russia Far-East. Insiders say no. The MD-80 was not the right plane for it at all. Seems like AS could give the route a go with the 737-700.


Let's not also forget the airport situation in that part of Russia. What was good about the MD80 family, is the rear airstairs, which made it easier, at some of the lesser-developed airports.........so, the factor of these airports' facilities being improved(or not) would also figure into determining the feasibility of resuming service to Far East Russia.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9391
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:05 am

Freshside3 wrote:
NichCage wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
Would love to see SK return with their CPH flights. But not likely before they start taking A350s.


While I would like to see flights on SK between SEA & CPH to resume, there is something you need to know first about the route when it was still operating.

SK flew between SEA & CPH for over 40 years I believe. It was a very historic route, but there were many problems it faced before it got cut. Before airlines such as Air France, Lufthansa, and Icelandair came to SEA, there were much less flights to Europe. British Airways flew to LHR, Northwest Airlines flew to AMS, and SAS flew to CPH. However, with SAS struggling to be profitable between the years of 2007 and 2012, they had to make many changes. I believe at the time that with all the competiton that came to SEA from Europe, which was Icelandair, Air France, and Lufthansa, caused SAS to struggle in SEA. They were already having probelms with being profitable, and they had to cut long haul flights. They cut SEA because I think it was not profitable for them, and I don't think they will resume it. The CPH-SEA market must be big, and if someone could provide the yearly amount of passengers that travel on the route that would be great. Even if a large amount of passengers fly the route every year, airlines like BA and LH must carry passengers between SEA & CPH much better than SAS would if they restarted the route.

If you found a source which said SAS will come back to SEA with the A350, I would like a link to it. However, no doubt SAS will not consider returning to SEA because it is not profitable for them to operate the route again.

Please correct me if I am wrong on some points, and also how many passengers per year travel between SEA & CPH?


What carried the SEA-CPH service was not so much the local traffic to CPH........much more to Sweden, and especially Norway. As for the SFO-CPH flight trip is mostly for the benefit of having a UA hub feeding it. Really not that much local demand at SFO, compared to up in the Northwest. It's all about the connections.

SK could probably put SEA back on, but also, much depends on UA. It won't happen unless UA makes SEA a hub. And that won't happen until they get NRT service back. Which is slim to none.


I think if the traffic SEA CPH is a one stop to the Nordic countries, rather than O&D CPH, than FI has pretty much covered it. Direct to KEF, 1 stop to OSL, ARN, HEL, GOT, BGO, SVG, TRD, BLL, FAE and CPH, with easy access to Greenland covers quite a bit,
 
b6sea
Posts: 569
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:01 pm

I think one way for SK to make a SEA flight work in the future would be through connections to Eastern Europe and Russia from CPH. It seems to me like that's probably the way forward for the next European airline to serve SEA and could be fairly lucrative. Perhaps LH already does this as well as anyone needs to, but folks I know who are either do business in Eastern Europe, or go back to visit family on a regular basis always grumble about how hard it is to get there from SEA despite there being a fairly large Eastern European and Russian community. None of the individual communities are large enough on their own but you add together the Russians, Romanians, Poles, Ukrainians, Slovakians, Czechs, and the business ties to those countries and it starts to become fairly significant. I don't know if that's something they're interested in doing, but that seems like the only way they would really be successful at SEA at this point in this hypothetical situation we've created. I mean, the Scandinavian connections are somewhat compelling, but less so than they were 20 years ago, with many of VFR folks getting past traveling age and business connections, though fairly strong in tech, probably aren't enough to sustain a flight by itself without connections outside of Scandinavia and Finland.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:57 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
alot of people said DY but it usually flies to touristic places, which Seattle dosent really offer(at least to INTL pax). i really think that CTU with Sichuan Airlines might work(perhaps another secondary china market).


Really? Seattle doesn't have anything to offer for tourism? Seriously?

Let me list them, starting close and moving outward:

Pike Market, Space Needle, Boeing Everett Plant, Snoqualmie Falls, 120+ Wineries in Woodinville, more excellent breweries than you can count, San Juan Islands, Mt. Rainier National Park, Olympic National Park, North Cascades National Park, Mt. St. Helens (slightly closer to PDX maybe). Do you want me to go on, or is that good enough to start?

i can actually think of FEW places that have MORE to offer than SEA for tourism.
 
usflyer123
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:32 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
alot of people said DY but it usually flies to touristic places, which Seattle dosent really offer(at least to INTL pax). i really think that CTU with Sichuan Airlines might work(perhaps another secondary china market).


Really? Seattle doesn't have anything to offer for tourism? Seriously?

Let me list them, starting close and moving outward:

Pike Market, Space Needle, Boeing Everett Plant, Snoqualmie Falls, 120+ Wineries in Woodinville, more excellent breweries than you can count, San Juan Islands, Mt. Rainier National Park, Olympic National Park, North Cascades National Park, Mt. St. Helens (slightly closer to PDX maybe). Do you want me to go on, or is that good enough to start?

i can actually think of FEW places that have MORE to offer than SEA for tourism.


what i meant is that usually people from around the world(not USA and Canada) dont see Seattle as a very touristic place(like NYC,LA,SFO, DC, Miami or Orlando), it serves mostly domestic tourists. i didnt mean that Seattle dont offer touristic attractions, it does, its a very beautiful city. of course there is the cruise pax but it still isnt as big market for tourists as the others i have mentioned.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
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canadianpylon
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:57 pm

b6sea wrote:
masgniw wrote:
b6sea wrote:

I have wondered this too. I'm just trying to figure out where they would fly to SEA from. If it's YYC, I imagine they don't like the competition from AS and DL (along with the seasonal AC service). I doubt they would serve YVR with it being so close and with an even larger amount of competition like driving and the train. YYZ seems like a potential route with just AC on the route, but I imagine AS would have jumped on that route if there was room for a second airline. I'd love to see someone open up YWG or YUL from SEA, but, again, I think AS would be the one to do it if that were to happen (maybe AC on YUL).


I wouldn't rule out YVR. It's ~the 10th busiest route from SEA and the top int'l destination. In 2015, the route grew by 13%. The 737 might be a little bit much for this route though.


For some reason I had it in my head that Westjet didn't use Encore on transborder routes, but it appears that there is, indeed a precedent for that happening, so I'd love to see that happen.


WestJet currently codeshares with DL out of YYC/YEG/YVR/YYJ to SEA. I don't think they'll be adding to the schedule with their own metal any time soon.
Always looking for the longest route with the most transfers.
 
b6sea
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:00 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
alot of people said DY but it usually flies to touristic places, which Seattle dosent really offer(at least to INTL pax). i really think that CTU with Sichuan Airlines might work(perhaps another secondary china market).


Really? Seattle doesn't have anything to offer for tourism? Seriously?

Let me list them, starting close and moving outward:

Pike Market, Space Needle, Boeing Everett Plant, Snoqualmie Falls, 120+ Wineries in Woodinville, more excellent breweries than you can count, San Juan Islands, Mt. Rainier National Park, Olympic National Park, North Cascades National Park, Mt. St. Helens (slightly closer to PDX maybe). Do you want me to go on, or is that good enough to start?

i can actually think of FEW places that have MORE to offer than SEA for tourism.


what i meant is that usually people from around the world(not USA and Canada) dont see Seattle as a very touristic place(like NYC,LA,SFO, DC, Miami or Orlando), it serves mostly domestic tourists. i didnt mean that Seattle dont offer touristic attractions, it does, its a very beautiful city. of course there is the cruise pax but it still isnt as big market for tourists as the others i have mentioned.


That's fairly accurate. Although Seattle is a pretty big tourist draw at 19.2 million overnight visitors, the international share of that is only 7.3% according to Visit Seattle. Although international visitors do account for 17.3% of the $6.8bn in tourist spending in Seattle and King County. (2015 numbers)

I would agree that Seattle does have a hard time attracting international visitors. I'm not entirely sure how worried about that I am as a curmudgeonly Seattle native, but I also feel the need to be outraged about it at the same time...

From my perspective, when you look at what has gone on in Vancouver over the past 20 years, it's more of a cautionary tale than a success story from a resident's standpoint. While Vancouver has exceptional name recognition abroad, ranks highly in a number of surveys about quality of life and livability, especially for a city of its size, can anyone afford to live in Vancouver at the fairly low median incomes that are typical of jobs in Metro Vancouver? I think the answer, at least among members of my own family, is no. When talented, educated young people don't see opportunity for themselves in a place that's lauded as a model for other cities, you begin to think that maybe chasing accolades and attracting international tourists shouldn't be the number one priority.

Sorry to wax philosophical, it's just something that comes up in my head whenever the Vancouver-Seattle comparison is made.
 
gruenling
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:32 pm

Another airline that wasn't named before, even though Edelweiss is quite similar, is Eurowings (the touristic branch of LH),. There are rumors about EW going for 3/7 CGN - SEA Summer 17' in a german forum (airliners.de )
 
CPA62
Posts: 125
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:58 pm

From my perspective, when you look at what has gone on in Vancouver over the past 20 years, it's more of a cautionary tale than a success story from a resident's standpoint. While Vancouver has exceptional name recognition abroad, ranks highly in a number of surveys about quality of life and livability, especially for a city of its size, can anyone afford to live in Vancouver at the fairly low median incomes that are typical of jobs in Metro Vancouver? I think the answer, at least among members of my own family, is no. When talented, educated young people don't see opportunity for themselves in a place that's lauded as a model for other cities, you begin to think that maybe chasing accolades and attracting international tourists shouldn't be the number one priority

Well, your point well taken. Vancouver is not perfect. Vancouver is my third international city I lived in the last 40 years and I can only say I love the place and can not see my self living anywhere else. I don't know where your getting your information, there is no talented and educated population leaving but the reverse is the fact, Your right, incomes are not high enough but rising and lower incomes families being pushed out to farther reaches. Keep in mind the population of Vancouver is growing at a fast rate, the southwest corner of the BC Mainland is expecting a 15 % growth if not higher from the last census. most of which is coming from foreign immigration.
The immigrants are developing business ties with their ex country and the economy of Vancouver is growing and we are seeing influx of foreign companies setting up head office in Vancouver and using Vancouver as an entry point into North America. the future looks very bright for Vancouver. Tourists are a bi product of its success as a city. Back in the early nineties I was living in Europe, there was a lot of talk of Vancouver and little known. I was drawn to Vancouver because it was very different from the AMercian cities and had a very different vision in terms of livability which started in the 60 s. Vancouver current crisis in terms of housing and affordability is a problem of evolution.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:27 pm

b6sea wrote:
I think one way for SK to make a SEA flight work in the future would be through connections to Eastern Europe and Russia from CPH. It seems to me like that's probably the way forward for the next European airline to serve SEA and could be fairly lucrative. Perhaps LH already does this as well as anyone needs to, but folks I know who are either do business in Eastern Europe, or go back to visit family on a regular basis always grumble about how hard it is to get there from SEA despite there being a fairly large Eastern European and Russian community. None of the individual communities are large enough on their own but you add together the Russians, Romanians, Poles, Ukrainians, Slovakians, Czechs, and the business ties to those countries and it starts to become fairly significant. I don't know if that's something they're interested in doing, but that seems like the only way they would really be successful at SEA at this point in this hypothetical situation we've created. I mean, the Scandinavian connections are somewhat compelling, but less so than they were 20 years ago, with many of VFR folks getting past traveling age and business connections, though fairly strong in tech, probably aren't enough to sustain a flight by itself without connections outside of Scandinavia and Finland.


SEA-Russia is another tricky market. Most of the Russians in Seattle are from the Far East, and then Moscow second. The real need for Eastern Europe is more so, for Ukraine and Moldova. LH, LO and OS both have banks that are in the 1030am to noon bank, that have some unique connections, out of MUC/VIE/WAW(as in former USSR cities OTHER than MOW/KBP/LED). The SEA-FRA nonstop does not even get close to the times to get to MUC/VIE for these connections.....you have to take the first UA trip of the day to ORD/EWR/IAD/IAH to catch whatever Star Alliance flights make that bank.

ODS/LWO/KIV would, in theory, do well, if SK puts on those flights, combined with SEA-CPH.

Conversely, if LH had a flight from SEA to MUC, and had it leave a few hours earlier than the FRA trip, that would also work well. And no need to tweak the Europe portion of the schedule, unlike what SK would have to do.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:37 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
alot of people said DY but it usually flies to touristic places, which Seattle dosent really offer(at least to INTL pax). i really think that CTU with Sichuan Airlines might work(perhaps another secondary china market).


Really? Seattle doesn't have anything to offer for tourism? Seriously?

Let me list them, starting close and moving outward:

Pike Market, Space Needle, Boeing Everett Plant, Snoqualmie Falls, 120+ Wineries in Woodinville, more excellent breweries than you can count, San Juan Islands, Mt. Rainier National Park, Olympic National Park, North Cascades National Park, Mt. St. Helens (slightly closer to PDX maybe). Do you want me to go on, or is that good enough to start?

i can actually think of FEW places that have MORE to offer than SEA for tourism.


There's even German tourists that fly into SEA, especially to get to Forks(the town where the "Twilight" movies were filmed). Not far away is Aberdeen, which is Kurt Cobain's home town.....so a few Nirvana fans show up, too. Let's not forget the cemeteries where Bruce Lee and Jimi Hendrix are buried......those are also "tourist attractions" of sorts.
The Asian Art Museum........also the Museum of Glass in Tacoma.....the Edgewater, where you can actually buy bait and rent fishing gear, to fish on the balcony of you room.

And a bunch of festivals, at various times of the year---the Puyallup, Bumbershoot, Wintergrass, Blackberry Festival, Tulip Festival, etc. Let's not forget tribal casinos, too.

Just because Seattle doesn't have a Disneyland-like place, ancient ruins, NASCAR, or NBA ....doesn't mean there's nothing to do in Seattle.
 
NichCage
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:42 pm

gruenling wrote:
Another airline that wasn't named before, even though Edelweiss is quite similar, is Eurowings (the touristic branch of LH),. There are rumors about EW going for 3/7 CGN - SEA Summer 17' in a german forum (airliners.de )


I would like a link to where you first saw that, but it is for sure unexpected but welcomed. Is there a big demand between SEA & CGN? How many passengers fly the route per year if it is unserved?
 
NichCage
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:44 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
b6sea wrote:
I think one way for SK to make a SEA flight work in the future would be through connections to Eastern Europe and Russia from CPH. It seems to me like that's probably the way forward for the next European airline to serve SEA and could be fairly lucrative. Perhaps LH already does this as well as anyone needs to, but folks I know who are either do business in Eastern Europe, or go back to visit family on a regular basis always grumble about how hard it is to get there from SEA despite there being a fairly large Eastern European and Russian community. None of the individual communities are large enough on their own but you add together the Russians, Romanians, Poles, Ukrainians, Slovakians, Czechs, and the business ties to those countries and it starts to become fairly significant. I don't know if that's something they're interested in doing, but that seems like the only way they would really be successful at SEA at this point in this hypothetical situation we've created. I mean, the Scandinavian connections are somewhat compelling, but less so than they were 20 years ago, with many of VFR folks getting past traveling age and business connections, though fairly strong in tech, probably aren't enough to sustain a flight by itself without connections outside of Scandinavia and Finland.


SEA-Russia is another tricky market. Most of the Russians in Seattle are from the Far East, and then Moscow second. The real need for Eastern Europe is more so, for Ukraine and Moldova. LH, LO and OS both have banks that are in the 1030am to noon bank, that have some unique connections, out of MUC/VIE/WAW(as in former USSR cities OTHER than MOW/KBP/LED). The SEA-FRA nonstop does not even get close to the times to get to MUC/VIE for these connections.....you have to take the first UA trip of the day to ORD/EWR/IAD/IAH to catch whatever Star Alliance flights make that bank.

ODS/LWO/KIV would, in theory, do well, if SK puts on those flights, combined with SEA-CPH.

Conversely, if LH had a flight from SEA to MUC, and had it leave a few hours earlier than the FRA trip, that would also work well. And no need to tweak the Europe portion of the schedule, unlike what SK would have to do.


I think at this point, it can be concluded that SAS is not considering a resumption of flights between SEA & CPH. There is too much competition, and they are doing well with there latest expansion to LAX, MIA, and HKG.
 
PHX Flyer
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:09 am

Someone posted a rumor today on the German message board at airliners.de that Eurowings was going to start CGN-SEA x3/week, along with CGN-JFK x5/week next summer - for what's it worth. I do not believe that this person is a company insider, but given the coincidence of the posting and the begin of the IATA slot conference in Atlanta tomorrow, I assume that EW applied for these routes, and he or she must have had access to the filing.
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
Viscount724
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 12:32 am

BoeingGuy wrote:

I can actually think of FEW places that have MORE to offer than SEA for tourism.


You don't mention weather. I lived in YVR for 21 years and wouldn't recommend anyone visit YVR for tourism purposes from about October through March or April due to the likelihood of frequent rain. SEA isn't much different. October just broke records for days of rain in both cities (28 of 31 days in YVR vs. average of 15 days) and at least YVR isn't showing much change so far in November.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news ... o-november
http://www.king5.com/weather/october-co ... /342363198
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5160
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:28 am

I would agree that Seattle does have a hard time attracting international visitors. I'm not entirely sure how worried about that I am as a curmudgeonly Seattle native, but I also feel the need to be outraged about it at the same time...

Besides the comparison to YVR, what's your basis of your comment? SEA has seen quite on onslaught of foreign carriers and new routes like SEA-GDL, SEA-SZX, not to mention the upgrades in aircraft capacity on some routes.

Another airline that wasn't named before, even though Edelweiss is quite similar, is Eurowings (the touristic branch of LH),. There are rumors about EW going for 3/7 CGN - SEA Summer 17' in a german forum (airliners.de )

Are you sure you all are not confusing the announced service from DE on the SEA-MUC route next summer?
 
PHX Flyer
Posts: 544
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:18 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
Another airline that wasn't named before, .... is Eurowings (the touristic branch of LH),. There are rumors about EW going for 3/7 CGN - SEA Summer 17' in a german forum (airliners.de )

Are you sure you all are not confusing the announced service from DE on the SEA-MUC route next summer?


Hm, I wrote exactly that a little while ago, referring to the exact same rumor on the German board, just two postings before yours. Given how specific the details were, I do not believe that anyone confused Eurowings with Condor.
"Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes forever skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return." -Leonardo Da Vinci
 
b6sea
Posts: 569
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:27 am

wedgetail737 wrote:

Besides the comparison to YVR, what's your basis of your comment? SEA has seen quite on onslaught of foreign carriers and new routes like SEA-GDL, SEA-SZX, not to mention the upgrades in aircraft capacity on some routes.


I was remarking that the overall share of foreign visitors to Seattle is low at 7.3% of visitors staying overnight for 2015 based on statistics published by Visit Seattle. But I was also agreeing that Seattle, though very prominent in some circles, is one of those cities that people, especially abroad, are very quick to overlook despite an overwhelmingly positive impression of the city. That's something I've noticed my whole life and have never entirely understood, and I've had conversations with my parents and grandparents to the same effect, that it's always been that way. Like I said, as a fifth generation Seattleite, it is something that both irks me and is sort of something I'm okay with. If I had to phrase it in a particular way I would say people think of Seattle as a good place to live and work, but don't necessarily think of it as a place to vacation. I think they're wrong about that, but that's just my own observation.

Obviously, the international growth at SEA has been amazing in the last few years and the economic fundamentals (both corporate growth and extremely high median household incomes) underlying Seattle as well as being far and away the largest metro area in the Pacific Northwest, make it an extremely attractive market for new international routes. Those are things I'm very excited about and what I was getting at was more of a cultural perception of Seattle, which I think is changing in some ways, but remains the same in others.

I could talk about this for a month and still have more to say about it, so I'll stop there.
 
dubaiamman243
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:35 am

I don't see EY or QR at SEA. the market is covered well by Emirates double daily services
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:49 am

I am a Seattle native and I would unhesitatingly recommend Vancouver over Seattle to a tourist who has time for just one Pacific Northwest city. There are more tourist attractions both inside and immediately outside the city, the food is an order of magnitude better (although the boom is finally starting to create a real restaurant scene in Seattle), the city is far easier to get around without a private car, and the nighttime scene is better.

Seattle is bigger, more economically vibrant, has a superior cultural scene, and a far easier place to live, but is harder to visit, particularly if you're not coming there for the outdoor attractions.
 
Freshside3
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:18 pm

seabosdca wrote:
I am a Seattle native and I would unhesitatingly recommend Vancouver over Seattle to a tourist who has time for just one Pacific Northwest city. There are more tourist attractions both inside and immediately outside the city, the food is an order of magnitude better (although the boom is finally starting to create a real restaurant scene in Seattle), the city is far easier to get around without a private car, and the nighttime scene is better.

Seattle is bigger, more economically vibrant, has a superior cultural scene, and a far easier place to live, but is harder to visit, particularly if you're not coming there for the outdoor attractions.


Chinese food in Vancouver is "World-Class" without question, and much better than what we have in SEA. But what else do they have that is NOT Chinese? Granted, I have only buzzed through Vancouver a couple of times, so I can't say personally about other cuisine there. None of my friends or colleagues that go up there have eaten anything but Chinese. I am somehow not buying the argument that Vancouver has better food, in an overall sense, compared to Seattle.
 
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seabosdca
Posts: 6593
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:52 pm

Freshside3 wrote:
Chinese food in Vancouver is "World-Class" without question, and much better than what we have in SEA. But what else do they have that is NOT Chinese? Granted, I have only buzzed through Vancouver a couple of times, so I can't say personally about other cuisine there. None of my friends or colleagues that go up there have eaten anything but Chinese. I am somehow not buying the argument that Vancouver has better food, in an overall sense, compared to Seattle.


Pretty much everything is better up there, Asian or not. The Japanese food is better. The Korean food is better. About the only Asian food that might be better in Seattle is cheap Vietnamese street food. The Italian food is miles better; our best Italian restaurants here are just okay. The fusion/avant garde food is better, probably because the city is more recognized internationally as a destination.

But then again Seattle has never done particularly well for its size. Portland is 2/3 the size of Seattle and has a far more robust food scene as well -- for non-Asian food, I'd even pick Portland over Vancouver.
 
747megatop
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Re: Next airline to come to SEA

Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:36 pm

flybynight wrote:
I would think that JAL would be interested even with DL and ANA flying the route. A perfect fit for one of their 787's.
Beyond that I wonder if any other Middle Eastern airline has their focus on SEA. Also I am surprised their isn't anything from Mexico or Central/South America.
Maybe Norwegian as well? Man, would I like a direct fly to OSL from SEA!

How about QF coming to SEA with their 787s? SEA is after all a major business center in the Pacific Northwest and does not have a direct non-stop connection to Australia.

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