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VC10er
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NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:09 pm

For many, many years I have wondered why there has never been scheduled service from (say LGA or EWR) to Hyannis and Provincetown, Cape Cod, at least seasonal? I would think Cape Air would try or even one of the majors with a prop or commuter jet.

Perhaps the runways are an issue, perhaps no demand? But given the fact that driving in the summer from the Tri-State area can take 6+ hours (it once took me 9 hours to P-town), and flying to Boston Logan, then waiting and connecting to Cape Air hardly make it worth doing. Even if the flights went every other day or once a day, I would think it would do a lot economically for Cape Cod and save many people from nightmare traffic on a route, that as the crow flies, would be short and easy.

If this has been discussed before, apologies.

This past weekend I had to go to Hyannis, then Palm Springs. I flew UA in and out of Boston PLUS a 2+ hour drive from Logan out to the Cape, and back. If I could have gotten on a UA prop, I would have done it in a snap. I would go to P-town in the summer more than every few years if there was a flight. But, that's just me.

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RL757PVD
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:19 pm

B6 Flies JFK-HYA daily in the summer, twice on weekends I believe... PVC is runway limited however.
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Newbiepilot
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:24 pm

I believe that Cape Air flies from White Plains (HPN) in Westchester to Provincetown.
 
303dk
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:30 pm

Cape Air flies HPN-MVY, HPN-PVC, and HPN-ACK with optional limo service from HPN to Manhattan.
 
HVNandrew
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:42 pm

303dk wrote:
Cape Air flies HPN-MVY, HPN-PVC, and HPN-ACK with optional limo service from HPN to Manhattan.

I'm going to guess that's the right airport for the NYC area for those routes. Fairfield County seems to be the cutoff for the Cape and islands. NYC and the immediately surrounding area is much more Hamptons-oriented.

US used to serve LGA-HYA with props year-round, but it was cut even prior to the slot swap.

Could the train be a factor here? Parts of the Cape are not too far a drive from Providence, and then Acela would be a fairly easy trip down to NY.
 
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usxguy
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:45 pm

I made it to HYA in 1:10 last Friday night. Ever since The Big Dig was completed, travel on 93 and MA-6 has made it a challenge for even Cape Air to maintain frequent BOS/HYA flights.
xx
 
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KLM11
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:45 pm

Years ago somewhere around the summer of 2004 I attempted SAN-PHL-ACK on US Airways. The second segment was cancelled, forcing a reroute of PHL-LGA (E-145) and LGA-HYA (S-340, IIRC). I then had to take the ferry to Nantucket. For many I can imagine the LGA-HYA flights were a big time saver.

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VC10er
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:49 pm

Ok, I could deal with White Plains and a car service! I would prefer LGA or EWR, but even White Plains to P-town would beat the hell out of driving. Is there any other kind of aircraft that can make it in and out of P-town other than the Cape Air Cessna?
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thegoldenargosy
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:10 am

There probably isn't a market there, outside JFK-HYA on B6 seasonally. Most NYC gays go Fire Island, not Ptown.
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:39 am

usxguy wrote:
I made it to HYA in 1:10 last Friday night. Ever since The Big Dig was completed, travel on 93 and MA-6 has made it a challenge for even Cape Air to maintain frequent BOS/HYA flights.


Depending on where in the BOS area you're coming from 1:10 to HYA would ONLY be possible in the off-season like now, and late at night on a Friday. Try that May-early October and it'll take hours! Cape Air has no problem filling those planes with strong yields 6-mos out of the year, which makes it possible to fly it year-round.

And you would have taken MA-3 (Route 3), not MA-6. Not even sure if there's such a thing as MA-6.
 
stlgph
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:52 am

HVNandrew wrote:
303dk wrote:
Cape Air flies HPN-MVY, HPN-PVC, and HPN-ACK with optional limo service from HPN to Manhattan.

I'm going to guess that's the right airport for the NYC area for those routes. Fairfield County seems to be the cutoff for the Cape and islands. NYC and the immediately surrounding area is much more Hamptons-oriented.

US used to serve LGA-HYA with props year-round, but it was cut even prior to the slot swap.

Could the train be a factor here? Parts of the Cape are not too far a drive from Providence, and then Acela would be a fairly easy trip down to NY.


lol. driving in the Cape is a major major pain in the ass in the summer. you could walk faster.
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jfklganyc
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:11 am

The masses of NYC gays going to Ptown take a cheap bus to BOS and then take the Ferry. Never heard of someone flying.

As for HYA...a lot of money there, and B6 does well. But a buddy of mine said "Flight was delayed 3 hours, it was quicker to drive. Wont do it again" I cant blame him
 
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usxguy
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:13 am

3 was probably further down. But i remember 6 :)
xx
 
USAirALB
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:14 am

US used to do BOS-ACK/MVY/HYA along with MVY-ACK.

I don't know when the above routes where discontinued, but LGA-HYA was discontinued back in 2010.
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Curiousflyer
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:14 am

I went from NYC to the Cape twice. Two nightmares. The first time we drove and with traffic it took about six hours each way. The second time we flew, got stuck on Martha's Vineyard going to HYA and had to take a ferry, on the way back we flew to Nantucket, our flight to NYC there got cancelled, we flew back to HYA three hours later and took nasty buses to finally be dropped in Chinatown at 3 AM. We had to be back in NY that day, all flights were cancelled because of a bit of rain, there were no more flights out of HYA... horrible. The worst part is that 90% of the employees we dealt with there hated their job and clients. I have not set a foot there since. I just don't have the time and money to deal with this.
 
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mikegigs
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:19 am

HVNandrew wrote:
I'm going to guess that's the right airport for the NYC area for those routes. Fairfield County seems to be the cutoff for the Cape and islands. NYC and the immediately surrounding area is much more Hamptons-oriented.


I think you hit the nail on the head here. Those going to the Cape probably aren't willing to pay to fly somewhere when they could drive to another similar place, while the Vineyard and Nantucket are more upscale (and expensive) locations that attract the people who are willing to pay for a flight.

Plus ferry service to either of the islands can add two or three hours to a trip, I think that's a major reason to fly.
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VS4ever
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:39 am

Ok, waited to weigh in on this until I could get to my data.
B6 flies JFK-HYA June-Sept on E-190's, avg loads in 14 were 83%, in 15 80% and in 16 for June and July 79%

As for getting there (to the Cape by road), you could take 93, to Route 3, then it turns into Route 6 once you get on to the Cape all the way to PVC (or 6A if you want a more leisurely drive through Dennis and meet up with 6 later)

PVC-HPN is on 9K (Cape Air) 9 Seaters looks for this year to have started in June primarily, but very limited service only 28 flights combined and a whopping 148 pax

the bigger markets are really to ACK and MVY with around 60,000 flying to ACK and back from JFK and around 30K for MVY. MVY is seasonal on a mix of B6 and others, ACK too, with a mix of B6 E190's, but also DL via Shuttle American on E145's, but for HYA and PVC, go via BOS unless it's in the summer.
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BostonBeau
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:02 am

I remember flying from ACK to HYA and then on to Boston on a Northeast DC-9. Between Nantucket and Hyannis, I doubt we got above 3000 feet. It was strange, because the plane was full from ACK to HYA, then almost everyone got off in HYA and there were only a few of us continuing to Boston.
 
JRL3289
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:18 am

VS4ever wrote:
As for getting there (to the Cape by road), you could take 93, to Route 3, then it turns into Route 6 once you get on to the Cape all the way to PVC (or 6A if you want a more leisurely drive through Dennis and meet up with 6 later)


Who is driving NYC-Cape Cod via 93/3? No one, I would hope! Most will be going 95 to 195 to 25 and connecting to the Bourne Bridge or 6 and the Sagamore Bridge. (Some people might do the inland route via 84/90/495, too.)

As far as why there's a lack of service, my guess - as others have posited - is that if someone is going to Provincetown from NYC, the best route is taking bus/plane/train to Boston, then the ferry on to Provincetown. The ferry is only something like $50 roundtrip, I believe. If going to Hyannis or any other Mid-Cape destinations, I would bet driving dominates because the combination of either flight/rental car or train/rental car makes it much more expensive than simply dealing with the traffic.
 
stlgph
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:19 am

jfklganyc wrote:
The masses of NYC gays going to Ptown take a cheap bus to BOS and then take the Ferry. Never heard of someone flying.

As for HYA...a lot of money there, and B6 does well. But a buddy of mine said "Flight was delayed 3 hours, it was quicker to drive. Wont do it again" I cant blame him


lol, you hanging with the wrong crowd, girl.
we take Acela or fly into Logan then catch the ferry.
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VS4ever
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:02 am

JRL3289 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
As for getting there (to the Cape by road), you could take 93, to Route 3, then it turns into Route 6 once you get on to the Cape all the way to PVC (or 6A if you want a more leisurely drive through Dennis and meet up with 6 later)


Who is driving NYC-Cape Cod via 93/3? No one, I would hope! Most will be going 95 to 195 to 25 and connecting to the Bourne Bridge or 6 and the Sagamore Bridge. (Some people might do the inland route via 84/90/495, too.)

Agreed about coming from NYC you wouldn't, but i was going off the previous post which talked about taking 93 down from BOS. Which is what I would do from where i live, which is most definitely not in NY.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
VS11
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:22 am

JRL3289 wrote:

The ferry is only something like $50 roundtrip, I believe.


The ferry from Boston was $88 return for the past two years, $59 one-way.
 
oldannyboy
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:35 pm

JRL3289 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
As for getting there (to the Cape by road), you could take 93, to Route 3, then it turns into Route 6 once you get on to the Cape all the way to PVC (or 6A if you want a more leisurely drive through Dennis and meet up with 6 later)


Who is driving NYC-Cape Cod via 93/3? No one, I would hope! Most will be going 95 to 195 to 25 and connecting to the Bourne Bridge or 6 and the Sagamore Bridge. (Some people might do the inland route via 84/90/495, too.)

As far as why there's a lack of service, my guess - as others have posited - is that if someone is going to Provincetown from NYC, the best route is taking bus/plane/train to Boston, then the ferry on to Provincetown. The ferry is only something like $50 roundtrip, I believe. If going to Hyannis or any other Mid-Cape destinations, I would bet driving dominates because the combination of either flight/rental car or train/rental car makes it much more expensive than simply dealing with the traffic.


True, we drove, only because we needed the car on the Cape, and were supposed to meet friends there, and then drive onwards with them to Boston; otherwise it would be train/bus to Boston, then ferry.

I love the Cape, and the beaches. And the guys. :-) But driving on the Cape can be frustrating. The cape is also quite expensive..
 
ScottB
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:55 pm

JRL3289 wrote:
As far as why there's a lack of service, my guess - as others have posited - is that if someone is going to Provincetown from NYC, the best route is taking bus/plane/train to Boston, then the ferry on to Provincetown. The ferry is only something like $50 roundtrip, I believe. If going to Hyannis or any other Mid-Cape destinations, I would bet driving dominates because the combination of either flight/rental car or train/rental car makes it much more expensive than simply dealing with the traffic.


This pretty much hits it on the head. If you're going on vacation just about anywhere on the Cape apart from P-town, especially with a family, you're going to need a car while you're there. When you add in the time needed to fly/ride the train or bus, deal with airport security, and deal with car rental, the time savings vs. driving can be minimal even with the notorious traffic going to & from the Cape. Nantucket & Martha's Vineyard are a bit different given you're dealing with the ferries if you drive so air service to ACK/MVY performs better. Plus they're already high-end destinations so dropping the extra money on flights isn't that much in comparison to the total cost of the stay.

VC10er wrote:
For many, many years I have wondered why there has never been scheduled service from (say LGA or EWR) to Hyannis and Provincetown, Cape Cod, at least seasonal? I would think Cape Air would try or even one of the majors with a prop or commuter jet.

Perhaps the runways are an issue, perhaps no demand? But given the fact that driving in the summer from the Tri-State area can take 6+ hours (it once took me 9 hours to P-town), and flying to Boston Logan, then waiting and connecting to Cape Air hardly make it worth doing. Even if the flights went every other day or once a day, I would think it would do a lot economically for Cape Cod and save many people from nightmare traffic on a route, that as the crow flies, would be short and easy.


The runway at PVC is too short to support jet service. As others have mentioned, B6 serves JFK-HYA seasonally in the summer & early fall, but demand drops off sharply once it gets chilly on the Cape (and in the off season, the drive is easy).
 
Josh32121
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Re: NYC to Cape Cod, why no service?

Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:30 am

This is the gayest thread ever. I love it.
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