Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
720B
Topic Author
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:18 am

Seems Avianca is ready to chose a partner in the near future. A cash injection is needed. As per the article, they would even consider offers for a controlling stake

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... ts-suitors
 
flyingcat
Posts: 530
Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 10:33 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 12:13 pm

Wow according to the article they missed lease payments on a 330. Time for Sage-Popovich to repo it!
 
User avatar
mikegigs
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:23 pm

With Copa and UA being so cozy, I think it'd be better for both DL and AV if they created a partnership. DL is pretty weak in Latam and this could be valuable for them.

However, both UA and AV are in Star, so there might be a bigger draw there?
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:27 pm

How does United Brazil operated by Avianca (or OceanAir) sound?
-Andrés Juánez
 
bigbird
Posts: 365
Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2004 10:38 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:39 pm

They actually have a couple of A330s that are in storage in France that have not been delivered. They have been there for awhile.
bigbird from georgia
 
720B
Topic Author
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:16 pm

flyingcat wrote:
Wow according to the article they missed lease payments on a 330. Time for Sage-Popovich to repo it!



That is an Avianca Brazil A330. Avianca Brazil is not controlled by the Avianca/Taca conglomerate, they only (for now I guess) use the brand under a license. Still, owing money does not look for the Avianca brand
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10910
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:21 pm

720B wrote:
flyingcat wrote:
Wow according to the article they missed lease payments on a 330. Time for Sage-Popovich to repo it!



That is an Avianca Brazil A330. Avianca Brazil is not controlled by the Avianca/Taca conglomerate, they only (for now I guess) use the brand under a license. Still, owing money does not look for the Avianca brand

Avianca Brazil is not directly owned by Avianca Holdings (formerly AviancaTaca) but rather owned by the Synergy Group, who is also Avianca Holding's parent company. So they are sister companies.
 
720B
Topic Author
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:26 pm

Polot wrote:
720B wrote:
flyingcat wrote:
Wow according to the article they missed lease payments on a 330. Time for Sage-Popovich to repo it!



That is an Avianca Brazil A330. Avianca Brazil is not controlled by the Avianca/Taca conglomerate, they only (for now I guess) use the brand under a license. Still, owing money does not look for the Avianca brand

Avianca Brazil is not directly owned by Avianca Holdings (formerly AviancaTaca) but rather owned by the Synergy Group, who is also Avianca Holding's parent company. So they are sister companies.



right, but my point remains. The A300 debt is Avianca Brazil's responsability; not Avianca/ Taca holdings. Still, not good for the Avianca name
 
jfk777
Posts: 7390
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:40 pm

The Dynamic of what alliance Avianca is in has positive and negative results for all others. AV is currently in Star along with its neighbor Copa in Panama. OW has the entire LATAM group and Skyteam has AM & AR. IF Delta were to buy AV that would leave the Star alliance with only Copa. Skyteam would be strengthened controlling all central america from Mexico to Colombia plus AR in Argentina. AV switching alliances makes Skyteam a strong second alliance in Latin America and Star is left with only Copa, which is a very good airline but can't cover Latin America the way in needs to be.
 
NYCAdvantage
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:01 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 7:33 pm

The question is where does Avianca rather be?
With Sky I guess they will fit better, not only to North America but also to LHR from BOG even to Spain instead of competing along against BA and IB you have partners at both end plus soon they could create a JV with open sky soon coming to Colombia, is their call but from my view I think in the long run Delta is better, if they only want a quick fix United is next to them as Copa they are in the same alliance but still there is too much competition between them, if is only money who knows but if you weigh all the options I think they could be more powerful in South America with skyteam.
 
crazytoaster
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:09 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:29 pm

Totally agree that SkyTeam seems like a better fit long-term. Don't have to compete with Copa for Star passengers or North to South America transit as much. Little to no overlap with AM and AR.
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:20 pm

NYCAdvantage wrote:
The question is where does Avianca rather be?
With Sky I guess they will fit better, not only to North America but also to LHR from BOG even to Spain instead of competing along against BA and IB you have partners at both end plus soon they could create a JV with open sky soon coming to Colombia, is their call but from my view I think in the long run Delta is better, if they only want a quick fix United is next to them as Copa they are in the same alliance but still there is too much competition between them, if is only money who knows but if you weigh all the options I think they could be more powerful in South America with skyteam.


You really confused me. Part of it is lack of interpunctuation, but even apart from that, how would AV joining "Sky" (I guess you mean SkyTeam?) make them not have to compete against BA and IB to LHR and Spain? Or did you mean if they join OneWorld? Neither UA nor DL could offer them that....
 
NYCAdvantage
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:01 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 9:53 pm

What I mean if you have a partner you don't have to compete alone. Air Europa can help in Madrid instead of competing, against IB & Air Europa,

The same at LHR if you have VS working with them can help them fill with better profits, "Star" don't have anyone to help at those places.
Also at MIA and JFK, Delta can help feed their flights better than United. Like I said before is what Avianca wants short or long term fix.
How long will it take for them to get out of "Star"
To then join another another Alliance "SKY"?
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:12 pm

Bloomberg was wrong when they first reported the missed payment. They continue to be wrong. Avianca Brazil never took delivery of these 332s, Snyergy did. Synergy might be the parent of Avianca Brazil and large shareholder of Avianca Holdings, but they are not the same entity.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13350
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:23 pm

jfk777 wrote:
The Dynamic of what alliance Avianca is in has positive and negative results for all others. AV is currently in Star along with its neighbor Copa in Panama. OW has the entire LATAM group and Skyteam has AM & AR. IF Delta were to buy AV that would leave the Star alliance with only Copa. Skyteam would be strengthened controlling all central america from Mexico to Colombia plus AR in Argentina. AV switching alliances makes Skyteam a strong second alliance in Latin America and Star is left with only Copa, which is a very good airline but can't cover Latin America the way in needs to be.

So focused on alliances that you don't seem to realize that nothing is even being said about AV joining/switching to anything.

Based on the info we have, this is between DL and AV, not AV and SkyTeam.
One does not necessitate the other (see: DL+VS, DL+VA, DL+G3, etc)

So that'd be AM+AR+G3+AV in the region, plus DL's connections to ATL, JFK, DTW, and LAX.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
dmorbust
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:21 am

This will be really interesting. United and Copa - and Star Alliance in general - cannot afford to lose Avianca and be left with no one else in the entirety of Latin America. Azul could plug a hole in Brazil but that is it. For this reason I see United and Copa perhaps bidding together aggressively. That said, Delta is in a better place financially and operationally to take on this acquisition relative to United, and this move would be quite the coup for Delta in ensuring competitiveness in almost every important market left in Central and South America. Avianca could benefit from a closer relationship with Aeromexico (of which DL will soon own 49%), Gol Linhas in Brazil (10% owned by DL), as well as Delta JV partners Virgin Atlantic, KLM, and Air France. If Efremovich is really willing to sell a controlling stake then I believe DL will bid aggressively as well because an opportunity like this will not repeat itself. After LATAM, Avianca is the only group to have a significant presence in almost all of South America.
 
notconcerned
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:14 am

NYCAdvantage wrote:
The same at LHR if you have VS working with them can help them fill with better profits, "Star" don't have anyone to help at those places.


VS to where exactly? Beyond LHR routes for VS are really limited to DEL, DXB, JNB, LOS, HKG, and PVG.

Whereas if people are flying AV to LHR, highly likely they will be connecting intra-Europe, in which case *A offers 11 EU destinations on 7 different airlines.

Certainly not ideal as a transit hub, but VS doesn't offer that much more.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1981
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:33 am

dmorbust wrote:
United and Copa - and Star Alliance in general - cannot afford to lose Avianca and be left with no one else in the entirety of Latin America....That said, Delta is in a better place financially and operationally to take on this acquisition relative to United, and this move would be quite the coup for Delta.


Your first comment speaks volumes about the importance Avianca is to Star and why they would probably bid aggressively, if necessary.

I would think that both UA and DL have enough cash on hand to buy the lock, stock and barrel of Avianca several times over so it's not really a matter of who's in a better position financially....they're both equally capable of putting up enough cash for any percent interest in Avianca. It might boil down to a possible bidding war and in the end someone might end up with part ownership for a fair price or someone might end up spending the equivalent of what AS spent for VX.
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:08 pm

Congratulations to AV! It was less exposed than other carriers, to the Brazilian downturn (as O6 took that battle). Moreover, Colombia's economic rise bodes well for AV.

Now is the time, to intelligently rid themselves of O6, and refocus on the Colombian market. If they are looking for a partner, Azul is already aligned to UA (and likely on the path of StarAlliance membership).

http://newsroom.united.com/2015-06-26-U ... artnership

If AV (and O6) can parle O6 to Delta/SkyTeam, this would be the best for distribution. DL could insist greater ties between GOL and O6, employing O6 as a SkyTeam member, and allowing GOL to remain the LCC beast for domestic/regional. This would shore up against LATAM/AA (with a pending JV), and UA/AD/AV/CM, and could lay the works for a greater AR/O6/G3/DL partnership to combat the others.
 
User avatar
ojjunior
Posts: 987
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:31 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:46 pm

Been there!
Said Mr.Neeleman...
 
dmorbust
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:52 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
It might boil down to a possible bidding war and in the end someone might end up with part ownership for a fair price or someone might end up spending the equivalent of what AS spent for VX.


I agree there may very well be a bidding war, and if a controlling stake is possible then Avianca will surely sell for an enormous premium versus current stock price.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13350
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:02 pm

notconcerned wrote:
VS to where exactly? Beyond LHR routes for VS are really limited to DEL, DXB, JNB, LOS, HKG, and PVG.

Whereas if people are flying AV to LHR, highly likely they will be connecting intra-Europe, in which case *A offers 11 EU destinations on 7 different airlines.

What exactly are you trying to show though, comparing unaligned VS (who IINM has no apparent involvement in this deal) with random star carriers at LHR?

At least even it out, and compare what's offered throughout Europe by AF+KL+AZ+SU+RO via LHR to what the Star carriers are offering... though not really sure what the point of that either.


Rajahdhani wrote:
If AV (and O6) can parle O6 to Delta/SkyTeam, this would be the best for distribution. DL could insist greater ties between GOL and O6, employing O6 as a SkyTeam member, and allowing GOL to remain the LCC beast for domestic/regional. This would shore up against LATAM/AA (with a pending JV), and UA/AD/AV/CM, and could lay the works for a greater AR/O6/G3/DL partnership to combat the others.

Idealistic, but maybe not realistic. Airlines don't divvy up their partnerships or acquisitions around what will work out more evenly on a map, they do it by which partner helps them achieve the highest monetary value.

Look at mainland China as an example:
in a scenario similar to what you proposed, 3 Chinese majors = 3 alliance partners.
in the real world: DL gets 2, UA gets 1, AA gets shut out.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:13 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
Congratulations to AV! It was less exposed than other carriers, to the Brazilian downturn (as O6 took that battle). Moreover, Colombia's economic rise bodes well for AV.

Now is the time, to intelligently rid themselves of O6, and refocus on the Colombian market. If they are looking for a partner, Azul is already aligned to UA (and likely on the path of StarAlliance membership).

http://newsroom.united.com/2015-06-26-U ... artnership

If AV (and O6) can parle O6 to Delta/SkyTeam, this would be the best for distribution. DL could insist greater ties between GOL and O6, employing O6 as a SkyTeam member, and allowing GOL to remain the LCC beast for domestic/regional. This would shore up against LATAM/AA (with a pending JV), and UA/AD/AV/CM, and could lay the works for a greater AR/O6/G3/DL partnership to combat the others.


That O6/G3 strategy would not work. What would make real sense was if United bought O6 in order to have it merge with AD. AD is still not a complete airline for the Brazilian market and needs to expand at GRU and GIG in order to be of any use to an alliance.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8538
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:37 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
It might boil down to a possible bidding war and in the end someone might end up with part ownership for a fair price or someone might end up spending the equivalent of what AS spent for VX.


That might be the wet dream of investment bankers but they're no rational reason for an expensive bidding war between UA and DL. The short reason why?

Colombia isn't big enough to be important in the context of U.S. carriers' global networks.

It's not a fast-growing market that's destined to be huge, like China. It's not a developed, affluent market subject to broad/quick liberalization, like Canada. It's not a big, proximate market, like Mexico that will benefit from a dozen destinations reached from ~30 U.S. airports.

The Colombia (and I know there's more to Avianca than Colombia) - U.S. market 12 months ending June 2015 was about 3 million passengers. That's smaller than Jamaica. Do we see posters getting hyperbolic about Jamaica? It's less than half the size of the market to the Dominican Republic. It's less than 1/7th the size of the market with Mexico. Delta put up $65 million in 2012 to buy 4.1% of Aeromexico. How much should it spend for a stake in much smaller markets?

See Table 3 in US International Air Passenger and Freight Statistics Report put out by the U.S. DOT.
 
dmorbust
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:57 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
It might boil down to a possible bidding war and in the end someone might end up with part ownership for a fair price or someone might end up spending the equivalent of what AS spent for VX.


That might be the wet dream of investment bankers but they're no rational reason for an expensive bidding war between UA and DL. The short reason why?

Colombia isn't big enough to be important in the context of U.S. carriers' global networks.

It's not a fast-growing market that's destined to be huge, like China. It's not a developed, affluent market subject to broad/quick liberalization, like Canada. It's not a big, proximate market, like Mexico that will benefit from a dozen destinations reached from ~30 U.S. airports.

The Colombia (and I know there's more to Avianca than Colombia) - U.S. market 12 months ending June 2015 was about 3 million passengers. That's smaller than Jamaica. Do we see posters getting hyperbolic about Jamaica? It's less than half the size of the market to the Dominican Republic. It's less than 1/7th the size of the market with Mexico. Delta put up $65 million in 2012 to buy 4.1% of Aeromexico. How much should it spend for a stake in much smaller markets?

See Table 3 in US International Air Passenger and Freight Statistics Report put out by the U.S. DOT.


Your data makes a lot of sense and your argument is convincing, but it doesn't take into account the scarcity of available South American partners. There will be no other opportunities like Avianca - instant dominant #1 presence in Colombia, strong first or second in various Central America countries, #2/#3 in Peru, Ecuador, etc. Much like how Alaska and Jetblue bid Virgin America up to a seemingly irrational valuation, I am sure Avianca will be bid up to a significant premium. You are right that the market isn't enormous, but when you are talking about a one of a kind carrier group like Avianca, the uniqueness of the opportunity will certainly lead to bidding between Delta, United, and Copa (and perhaps even a joint United/Copa bid).
 
notconcerned
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:22 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
What exactly are you trying to show though, comparing unaligned VS (who IINM has no apparent involvement in this deal) with random star carriers at LHR?

At least even it out, and compare what's offered throughout Europe by AF+KL+AZ+SU+RO via LHR to what the Star carriers are offering... though not really sure what the point of that either.


I was just asking what value DL/VS would bring for AV at LHR, if any. As in, I'm not sure if LHR/MAD connections are really that important for DL+AV partnership (all things considered).

I think AV is only concerned about who can funnel more traffic through BOG for North America-Latin America traffic.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7390
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:38 pm

notconcerned wrote:
NYCAdvantage wrote:
The same at LHR if you have VS working with them can help them fill with better profits, "Star" don't have anyone to help at those places.


VS to where exactly? Beyond LHR routes for VS are really limited to DEL, DXB, JNB, LOS, HKG, and PVG.

Whereas if people are flying AV to LHR, highly likely they will be connecting intra-Europe, in which case *A offers 11 EU destinations on 7 different airlines.

Certainly not ideal as a transit hub, but VS doesn't offer that much more.


LHR is not an ideal connecting point for an AV in Skyteam, Madrid could be with Air Europa since many Latins fly AV to Madrid and Barcelona. Air France is probably the best connecting hub in Europe from Latin America over CDG in Paris. IF AV switched alliances to Skyteam it would probably fly to Paris.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7390
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:42 pm

For Delta buying AV is about consolidating its route system in Latin America. AM and AR are at the north and south ends with GOL in Brazil. AV gives Delta all of central america and exposure in Colombia, Peru and Ecuador. The only big countries where DL is lacking would be Venezuela and Chile.
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2374
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:01 pm

DL already has a large financial stake and a good relationship with GOL. Avianca would be a good fit short of flying DL metal to Latam.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
NYCAdvantage
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 3:01 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:02 am

jfk777 wrote:
notconcerned wrote:
NYCAdvantage wrote:
The same at LHR if you have VS working with them can help them fill with better profits, "Star" don't have anyone to help at those places.


VS to where exactly? Beyond LHR routes for VS are really limited to DEL, DXB, JNB, LOS, HKG, and PVG.

Whereas if people are flying AV to LHR, highly likely they will be connecting intra-Europe, in which case *A offers 11 EU destinations on 7 different airlines.

Certainly not ideal as a transit hub, but VS doesn't offer that much more.


LHR is not an ideal connecting point for an AV in Skyteam, Madrid could be with Air Europa since many Latins fly AV to Madrid and Barcelona. Air France is probably the best connecting hub in Europe from Latin America over CDG in Paris. IF AV switched alliances to Skyteam it would probably fly to Paris.


I do not recall saying anything about connectionat all at London LHR, What I meant is that Avianca flies LHR-BOG without anyone helping them at LHR, the competition is BA and they connect you thru MAD, with VS at the other end been a Delta player they may be able to improve in yields.
By the same way Aeromexico could also work with them from Mexico to Asia without the need to connect in the US., Is there anyone at Star that could do that in Latin America? And then if the case is to connect thru Europe, KL, AF can do that thru AMS or CDG.
 
dmorbust
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:33 am

NYCAdvantage wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
notconcerned wrote:

VS to where exactly? Beyond LHR routes for VS are really limited to DEL, DXB, JNB, LOS, HKG, and PVG.

Whereas if people are flying AV to LHR, highly likely they will be connecting intra-Europe, in which case *A offers 11 EU destinations on 7 different airlines.

Certainly not ideal as a transit hub, but VS doesn't offer that much more.


LHR is not an ideal connecting point for an AV in Skyteam, Madrid could be with Air Europa since many Latins fly AV to Madrid and Barcelona. Air France is probably the best connecting hub in Europe from Latin America over CDG in Paris. IF AV switched alliances to Skyteam it would probably fly to Paris.


I do not recall saying anything about connectionat all at London LHR, What I meant is that Avianca flies LHR-BOG without anyone helping them at LHR, the competition is BA and they connect you thru MAD, with VS at the other end been a Delta player they may be able to improve in yields.
By the same way Aeromexico could also work with them from Mexico to Asia without the need to connect in the US., Is there anyone at Star that could do that in Latin America? And then if the case is to connect thru Europe, KL, AF can do that thru AMS or CDG.


I agree that with Delta as the strategic partner they would gain a lot from a closer relationship with Aeromexico, one stop to anywhere in Mexico as well as PVG, NRT, and soon ICN (without having to re-check luggage and clear US immigration/customs). They could also forge a relationship with Gol in Brazil, as well as KLM/Air France/Alitalia for Europe (and maybe Air Europa). Lastly, yes yields to London should improve by being able to draw on VS's frequent flyers and corporate customers.
 
dmorbust
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:22 am

According to this Colombian business article from late Wednesday (http://www.portafolio.co/negocios/empre ... eas-501422), here is more info based on sources:
1. Avianca is more interested in a strategic partner than just one who can infuse capital.
2. They will only consider takeover proposals if they are at valuation levels that are impossible to refuse.
3. If they do sell a big stake, one requirement is that the Avianca name cannot disappear.
4. Although the Bloomberg article said bids were due November 9th, people familiar said the time period could extend several weeks.
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:05 pm

C010T3 wrote:
That O6/G3 strategy would not work. What would make real sense was if United bought O6 in order to have it merge with AD. AD is still not a complete airline for the Brazilian market and needs to expand at GRU and GIG in order to be of any use to an alliance.


I see that. Question; what barriers are there now to AD expanding at GRU and GIG? Aircraft, crew, slots/rights? O6's addition to AD would be a distinctly strong carrier in Brazil - however, would (or, if so, how) it affect the AD/TP alliance/route structure?

Either way, something to talk about with excitement - at least, on the Brazilian front!
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 612
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Delta, United Said to Near Avianca Bid

Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:11 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Idealistic, but maybe not realistic. Airlines don't divvy up their partnerships or acquisitions around what will work out more evenly on a map, they do it by which partner helps them achieve the highest monetary value.

Look at mainland China as an example:
in a scenario similar to what you proposed, 3 Chinese majors = 3 alliance partners.
in the real world: DL gets 2, UA gets 1, AA gets shut out.


Wow, read me like a book there!

You're right - it did boil down to a rather neat solution. What do you see as being more realistic? You hinted earlier at AV partnering/investing with DL (but not necessarily having AV join SkyTeam, or have anything to do with other SkyTeam members). How do you see it shaking out?

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos