bluefltspecial wrote:

finnishway wrote:

Would BUF be able to fill A321neo to London for example?

This is a planned route for DY, you'll see it soon enough.

This seems a lot more likely. If a US city can't justify / support a flight to London, then it is difficult to imagine it justifying a long-haul flight to anywhere else.

finnishway wrote:

Would BUF be able to fill A321neo to London for example?

Maybe a 4x per week frequency. Honestly, BUF getting service from EK would be infinitely more shocking than the fact Donald Trump is now the president-elect of the United States, albeit in a good way!

bluefltspecial wrote:

finnishway wrote:

Would BUF be able to fill A321neo to London for example?

This is a planned route for DY, you'll see it soon enough.

There's a big difference to EK at BUF, though. There's a ton of direct flights between YYZ and London, and even more options considering a connection to somewhere else in Europe.

DXB, on the other hand, has very few options. Hence, canadians might consider more palatable the inconvenience of driving to BUF to go to Dubai and other connections where it makes sense.

I find it hard to believe BUF would be considered over DTW....but that's not my problem. *sips coffee

910A wrote:

alasizon wrote:

The problem with the later departure is going to be gate availability assuming a 2.5-3 hour turnaround (yes it can be done in less). Right now there are only 2 777 capable gates and at the time of the required arrival for that, BA will be using one and WS the other. Yes WS doesn't need the ADG V capable gate but there isn't another open gate at that time.

For an earlier departure, PHX is another 900 miles further than SEA and that translates into another two hours or so of flying time. I don't think a 7A departure would be viable and likewise leaving at 9A would blow most of the connections that the SEA flight would link up with.

Dallas flights to DXB leaves at 1150hrs or 1250hrs depending on the season, arrives in DXB the same time as the SEA flight, just adjust for the time difference and yes it could be done. Blown connections, do you realize that if you took the earliest flights from So. Cal from SAN, SAN, LAX, BUR, ONT, LBG, PSP, and other airports such as SJC,SMF,SLC,LAS etc you can't make a 9am connection out of SEA, and in theory a before noon departure at PHX would work. (Assuming AA has a interline agreement with EK and you would know that better than I). Will it happen, heck I don't know, but it was more interesting discussing this than if AA is drawing down PHX.

I doubt they'd care enough to time the flight for connectivity in PHX. The flight would be more about the connectivity at the DXB end serving the PHX local market. Any connections that could be made beyond PHX would be more coincidental than intentional.

Of course, the idea that EK is imminently announcing PHX and BUF is crazy, so it's all really for naught.

It's a little early for April Fools

finnishway wrote:

Would BUF be able to fill A321neo to London for example?

A *O airline might be able to at LHR because of the connections.

I think I'm going to post that Silver Airways is buying Etihad and see if people take it as seriously as this because it is no less likely.

enilria wrote:

I think I'm going to post that Silver Airways is buying Etihad and see if people take it as seriously as this because it is no less likely.

Air Berlin purchasing IAG would be more feasible

Some terrible logic being presented in these posts here guys:

(1) Because FLL doesn't exist on the map, it can't be trusted? Must be a glitch? -

How do you suppose a city goes about being added by accident? Just because someone failed to add something doesn't mean that there is a propensity to add incorrect information...BTW, FLL is on that map.

(2) Because a website has posted rumors that haven't happened, no information it posts is valid

Seriously? The point being made isn't Lucky's analysis of said information, its the fact that these cities were appearing on Emirate's map. That is worthy of discussion. The fact that it came from a site that you don't trust is irrelevant. If the onion sourced an encyclopedia in a story it doesn't make the encyclopedia incorrect.

--Personally, I don't see it as so far fetched. EK has been adding US destinations at a pretty high rate. I don't presume that growth will suddenly stop/decline. Its natural that they would add further locations. I, myself, thought that EWR or DEN would be more likely but I honestly don't know how many Torontoans would make the drive. My guess is EK knows more. I know double daily to SEA isn't just full of Yankees and Toronto is closer to Buffalo than Vancouver is to Seattle. Three times per week to Toronto is just pitifully under-served. People thought FLL would never happen.

Its not preposterous and worthy of discussion.

tortugamon

Here's my take on it. I ramp for swissport out here in Phoenix. I do the 744 that comes into here and JetBlue, with having friends in southwest, united, American, and united, we have the demand for Emirates to fly in a 773 every other day (bag only flight). The reason they won't fly here is because LA is down the street and SFO is up the avenue and LAS is next door, and DEN is by the grocery store. The major airlines here in the US has the transfers. I would love to have the airline to come here, but I don't see it happening til other European airlines come in.

BUF website shows coach services from BUF to Toronto on Coach Canada and Greyhound (about 3 hours). So EK adding a coach service to the Toronto area wouldn't be that crazy IMO.

I doubt very much anyone would fly 14 hours to and from Buffalo to Dubai and then take a Greyhound bus to Toronto. Torontonians won't even fly out of Hamilton if they had the opportunity to!! It is not like taking the 45 min bus from Abu Dhabi to Dubai after landing there with Etihad!!

Flightsimboy wrote:

BUF website shows coach services from BUF to Toronto on Coach Canada and Greyhound (about 3 hours). So EK adding a coach service to the Toronto area wouldn't be that crazy IMO.

I doubt very much anyone would fly 14 hours to and from Buffalo to Dubai and then take a Greyhound bus to Toronto. Torontonians won't even fly out of Hamilton if they had the opportunity to!! It is not like taking the 45 min bus from Abu Dhabi to Dubai after landing there with Etihad!!

If the rumblings I have heard that the UAE-Canada bilateral was approved to be amended hold true, this won't even be a consideration. I can't say how likely it is to happen, what I do know comes from shaky at best sources, but it would seem that there is a push to expand the rights for Emirates at very least to serve Canada (read Toronto) with more frequency. Especially with AC on the route and having a seemingly successful time, and India growing insanely fast (As of this summer, there will be 18 weekly flights to India from YYZ, both on AC and 9W), it is warranted. YYZ is very space limited, EK with their A380s can effectively utilize what little slots there are.

whywhyzee wrote:

Flightsimboy wrote:

BUF website shows coach services from BUF to Toronto on Coach Canada and Greyhound (about 3 hours). So EK adding a coach service to the Toronto area wouldn't be that crazy IMO.

I doubt very much anyone would fly 14 hours to and from Buffalo to Dubai and then take a Greyhound bus to Toronto. Torontonians won't even fly out of Hamilton if they had the opportunity to!! It is not like taking the 45 min bus from Abu Dhabi to Dubai after landing there with Etihad!!

If the rumblings I have heard that the UAE-Canada bilateral was approved to be amended hold true, this won't even be a consideration. I can't say how likely it is to happen, what I do know comes from shaky at best sources, but it would seem that there is a push to expand the rights for Emirates at very least to serve Canada (read Toronto) with more frequency. Especially with AC on the route and having a seemingly successful time, and India growing insanely fast (As of this summer, there will be 18 weekly flights to India from YYZ, both on AC and 9W), it is warranted. YYZ is very space limited, EK with their A380s can effectively utilize what little slots there are.

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

swaluver48 wrote:

I would love to have the airline to come here, but I don't see it happening til other European airlines come in.

I don't think this influences the ME3, and probably helps them instead. Don't expect AF or LH to start this anytime soon; I could definitely see EK here in the future, they tend to choose "stable (strong demand) cities" vs. QR that is more experimental i.e. PHL, LAS. PHX aside, BUF is a stretch, even for QR, but it is almost certain if the Canadian bilateral is not amended.

usflyer msp wrote:

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

So Canadian authorities prefer to inflate/protect AC/9W ticket prices and profitability, at the expense of increased trade and tourism.

EK will fly to DTW before it would ever fly to BUF, and they'll never fly to DTW.

Planesmart wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

So Canadian authorities prefer to inflate/protect AC/9W ticket prices and profitability, at the expense of increased trade and tourism.

Yes. I am not going to get into the politics but they feel that they are protecting Canadian jobs from "unfair" competition from the ME3.

usflyer msp wrote:

Planesmart wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

So Canadian authorities prefer to inflate/protect AC/9W ticket prices and profitability, at the expense of increased trade and tourism.

Yes. I am not going to get into the politics but they feel that they are protecting Canadian jobs from "unfair" competition from the ME3.

And Indian jobs too, at the cost of depressing trade and tourism.

KTPAFlyer wrote:

swaluver48 wrote:

.............I could definitely see EK here in the future, they tend to choose "stable (strong demand) cities" vs. QR that is more experimental i.e. PHL, LAS. PHX aside, BUF is a stretch, even for QR, but it is almost certain if the Canadian bilateral is not amended.

The PHL route is not "experimental", unless you feel an airline would experiment on a route for over 3 years. PHL is a OW Hub and not only provides acceptable O&D (primarily to India), but connecting traffic via AA.

usflyer msp wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

Flightsimboy wrote:

I doubt very much anyone would fly 14 hours to and from Buffalo to Dubai and then take a Greyhound bus to Toronto. Torontonians won't even fly out of Hamilton if they had the opportunity to!! It is not like taking the 45 min bus from Abu Dhabi to Dubai after landing there with Etihad!!

If the rumblings I have heard that the UAE-Canada bilateral was approved to be amended hold true, this won't even be a consideration. I can't say how likely it is to happen, what I do know comes from shaky at best sources, but it would seem that there is a push to expand the rights for Emirates at very least to serve Canada (read Toronto) with more frequency. Especially with AC on the route and having a seemingly successful time, and India growing insanely fast (As of this summer, there will be 18 weekly flights to India from YYZ, both on AC and 9W), it is warranted. YYZ is very space limited, EK with their A380s can effectively utilize what little slots there are.

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

I myself am skeptical, though I have seen a media release (don't have it unfortunately) that confirmed they had found that the bilateral does not sufficiently cover the market. How they act on it is a mystery. India is a huge market from Toronto, it has the strength to sustain more then the current level and then some.

What's interesting is a thread that mostly had posts five months ago suddenly is active again and on the home page. EK has been flying to FLL for a few months now.

BUF? Who came up with that one, a 12-year old kid on this site acting like he is CEO of the world? About as much chance as OMA being next on their list of focus cities.

acentauri wrote:

KTPAFlyer wrote:

swaluver48 wrote:

.............I could definitely see EK here in the future, they tend to choose "stable (strong demand) cities" vs. QR that is more experimental i.e. PHL, LAS. PHX aside, BUF is a stretch, even for QR, but it is almost certain if the Canadian bilateral is not amended.

The PHL route is not "experimental", unless you feel an airline would experiment on a route for over 3 years. PHL is a OW Hub and not only provides acceptable O&D (primarily to India), but connecting traffic via AA.

Not to start a flame war, but IMHO QR is the ME3 carrier that is least concerned about losing money so just because they fly a route does not mean it is profitable or successful. PHL and ATL are probably their worse performing US destinations. They regularly have absurdly low fares from those gateways, my wife and I booked our fall vacation a few months ago and picked up a PHL-DOH--KUL flight for $316 RT. FYI, the PHL-DOH flight connects to none of QR's India flights (that is probably one of the reasons it performs so poorly)...

whywhyzee wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

If the rumblings I have heard that the UAE-Canada bilateral was approved to be amended hold true, this won't even be a consideration. I can't say how likely it is to happen, what I do know comes from shaky at best sources, but it would seem that there is a push to expand the rights for Emirates at very least to serve Canada (read Toronto) with more frequency. Especially with AC on the route and having a seemingly successful time, and India growing insanely fast (As of this summer, there will be 18 weekly flights to India from YYZ, both on AC and 9W), it is warranted. YYZ is very space limited, EK with their A380s can effectively utilize what little slots there are.

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

I myself am skeptical, though I have seen a media release (don't have it unfortunately) that confirmed they had found that the bilateral does not sufficiently cover the market. How they act on it is a mystery. India is a huge market from Toronto, it has the strength to sustain more then the current level and then some.

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

PHX, maybe, since it seems to be the biggest US MSA without a ME3 flight. BUF? Ehh, I'd be shocked.

usflyer msp wrote:

Not to start a flame war, but IMHO QR is the ME3 carrier that is least concerned about losing money so just because they fly a route does not mean it is profitable or successful. PHL and ATL are probably their worse performing US destinations. They regularly have absurdly low fares from those gateways, my wife and I booked our fall vacation a few months ago and picked up a PHL-DOH--KUL flight for $316 RT. FYI, the PHL-DOH flight connects to none of QR's India flights (that is probably one of the reasons it performs so poorly)...

QR Regularly has Lower Fares from JFK than from PHL. That doesn't mean JFK is one of their worst performing routes. If you have a NON-A-net claim, which is 2 years old or less, which shows that PHL is a "worse" performing route, please post it.

usflyer msp wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

I myself am skeptical, though I have seen a media release (don't have it unfortunately) that confirmed they had found that the bilateral does not sufficiently cover the market. How they act on it is a mystery. India is a huge market from Toronto, it has the strength to sustain more then the current level and then some.

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

IMO, the only way the bilateral has a good chance of expanding is if EK can convince AC into a codeshare/revenue share partnership for Canada-DXB-India/Pak/SL/Middle East/Africa like the EK/QF partnership for Aus-Europe/Africa/Middle East. However it seems AC isn't really interested, as EK have partnered with Porter and Westjet instead and AC has launched its own 3 nonstops to India from YYZ/YVR.

acentauri wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Not to start a flame war, but IMHO QR is the ME3 carrier that is least concerned about losing money so just because they fly a route does not mean it is profitable or successful. PHL and ATL are probably their worse performing US destinations. They regularly have absurdly low fares from those gateways, my wife and I booked our fall vacation a few months ago and picked up a PHL-DOH--KUL flight for $316 RT. FYI, the PHL-DOH flight connects to none of QR's India flights (that is probably one of the reasons it performs so poorly)...

QR Regularly has Lower Fares from JFK than from PHL. That doesn't mean JFK is one of their worst performing routes. If you have a NON-A-net claim, which is 2 years old or less, which shows that PHL is a "worse" performing route, please post it.

Is less than a month recent enough? Please see:
http://www.anna.aero/2017/04/12/qatar-a ... -champion/

PHL is the lowest load factor route and it is a consistent year-round theme. As I stated above, the timing of the flight is one of the problems leading to its poor performance; it leaves PHL too early to get many AA connects and requires a 14 hour layover on the DOH end for most South Asia connects...

Well, it's been almost 6 months, and nothing has happened. It looks like this rumor was nothing more than just a map glitch. Mods please lock this thread.

PHX is certainly a big US without any transoceanic international flights (save BA) - but that is because of the poor quality of its population base. The city has relied on retirees and snowbirds far too much for economic expansion; as opposed to building a vibrant economy that can fill seats up front. In short, Phoenix, at least in its 55+ only parts, is a large death camp in the desert for mostly midwestern retirees hunkered down in cheap tract homes awaiting their ends.

aaflyer777 wrote:

I can see PHX but BUF? Even with feed from Canada I don't see them being able to fill a 777!

What feed from Canada? They fly to YYZ.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

aaflyer777 wrote:

I can see PHX but BUF? Even with feed from Canada I don't see them being able to fill a 777!

What feed from Canada? They fly to YYZ.

3 weekly only

They can probably fill double daily 777s to YYZ if allowed

Adipocere wrote:

PHX is certainly a big US without any transoceanic international flights (save BA) - but that is because of the poor quality of its population base. The city has relied on retirees and snowbirds far too much for economic expansion; as opposed to building a vibrant economy that can fill seats up front. In short, Phoenix, at least in its 55+ only parts, is a large death camp in the desert for mostly midwestern retirees hunkered down in cheap tract homes awaiting their ends.

I would disagree with your statement according to census data :

The median age in Phoenix was 32.2, making it among the youngest cities in the area. Tolleson was the youngest, at 26.6. Sun City is 73.6 but its a small number compared to the Phoenix population. There is also many Corporations based in Phoenix. Intel has a large presence, Google, First Solar, Go Daddy, Knight Trucking, Swift Trucking, Pet Smart, Ping etc etc.

The rumors in Phoenix for years have talked about a DBX flight. It is also said that the COP is actively courting overseas flights (thier dream is TYO). Phoenix and Dubai have a lot in common, Heat, Sun, and Sand!

Waiting for LAX772LR user to come swooping in and list a million reasons why PHX can't happen.

Flightsimboy wrote:

BUF website shows coach services from BUF to Toronto on Coach Canada and Greyhound (about 3 hours). So EK adding a coach service to the Toronto area wouldn't be that crazy IMO.

I doubt very much anyone would fly 14 hours to and from Buffalo to Dubai and then take a Greyhound bus to Toronto. Torontonians won't even fly out of Hamilton if they had the opportunity to!! It is not like taking the 45 min bus from Abu Dhabi to Dubai after landing there with Etihad!!

I agree that BUF has no real options in the EK network, specially with the new device restrictions, also YYZ is in the network with EK and AC so I don't see it, however about the bus, YVR is served via SEA with the plane+bus combination.

usflyer msp wrote:

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

It is true what you are saying if you only consider airline business, but bilateral agreements are between two states and many more economic aspects have to be considered in case of a new negotiation.

usflyer msp wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

Color me skeptical. There is little interest on the Canadian side in granting UAE carriers more frequencies. The allotments in the current agreement cover the O/D between the countries and Canadian officials feel that is sufficient. The entire reason why nonstop Canada-India flights have been so successful is because demand is strong and the ME3 have been unable to capacity dump and undercut AC/9W's pricing power...

I myself am skeptical, though I have seen a media release (don't have it unfortunately) that confirmed they had found that the bilateral does not sufficiently cover the market. How they act on it is a mystery. India is a huge market from Toronto, it has the strength to sustain more then the current level and then some.

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

AC also flies to DXB, it would allow them more access. Flight started as a 789, but was upguaged to a 77W. Being able to fly more then 3 weekly would help attract business travelers. It's not like the YYZ-DXB flights don't serve any O/D. Not to mention at the end of the day, it would benefit Canadians, which should be of more concern then padding AC's pockets.

MIflyer12 wrote:

[ Will they get Canadians to drive and cross the border? To enjoy the drive and border hassles and spend more money while doing it?

Another issue has to be people living in Canada who are unable to get into the USA because of nationality and/or passport problems.

whywhyzee wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

I myself am skeptical, though I have seen a media release (don't have it unfortunately) that confirmed they had found that the bilateral does not sufficiently cover the market. How they act on it is a mystery. India is a huge market from Toronto, it has the strength to sustain more then the current level and then some.

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

AC also flies to DXB, it would allow them more access. Flight started as a 789, but was upguaged to a 77W. Being able to fly more then 3 weekly would help attract business travelers. It's not like the YYZ-DXB flights don't serve any O/D. Not to mention at the end of the day, it would benefit Canadians, which should be of more concern then padding AC's pockets.

Again, as with India, the main reason AC has been successful in DXB (as opposed to the US3 experience) is because with only 3 frequencies EK has not been able to capacity dump in Canada. It is telling that AC has the ability add more frequency to DXB but has not. It can be argued that having non-stop flights to India is more beneficial to Canadians than any expanded EK access...

whywhyzee wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

I myself am skeptical, though I have seen a media release (don't have it unfortunately) that confirmed they had found that the bilateral does not sufficiently cover the market. How they act on it is a mystery. India is a huge market from Toronto, it has the strength to sustain more then the current level and then some.

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

AC also flies to DXB, it would allow them more access. Flight started as a 789, but was upguaged to a 77W. Being able to fly more then 3 weekly would help attract business travelers. It's not like the YYZ-DXB flights don't serve any O/D. Not to mention at the end of the day, it would benefit Canadians, which should be of more concern then padding AC's pockets.

I believe AC can increase YYZ-DXB up to 6 weekly?

rbavfan wrote:

Phoenix will not happen. Without a large cargo volume it would not make enough to sustain it. Phoenix is more a leasure destination.

PHX has a population more than 2X larger than LAS; that's true whether you talk city or metro area. PHX is also the only major southwestern city (kind of describes the area from Las Vegas over to El Paso, more or less) that has all major sports represented (Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey). It's an impressive area.

BUF? Buffalo on the other hand. It's the poster child of rust belt cities.

yycdel wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

AC also flies to DXB, it would allow them more access. Flight started as a 789, but was upguaged to a 77W. Being able to fly more then 3 weekly would help attract business travelers. It's not like the YYZ-DXB flights don't serve any O/D. Not to mention at the end of the day, it would benefit Canadians, which should be of more concern then padding AC's pockets.

I believe AC can increase YYZ-DXB up to 6 weekly?

They can request it but it's not likely the Dubai authorities would give them the rights. I think the bilateral is 3x a week per carrier.

usflyer msp wrote:

whywhyzee wrote:

usflyer msp wrote:

I could see the Canada-India bilateral being renegotiated for more frequencies but the Canada-UAE I am not seeing. EK and EY would get more access to Canada but what would the Canadian carriers get in return? The benefit would be one-sided...

AC also flies to DXB, it would allow them more access. Flight started as a 789, but was upguaged to a 77W. Being able to fly more then 3 weekly would help attract business travelers. It's not like the YYZ-DXB flights don't serve any O/D. Not to mention at the end of the day, it would benefit Canadians, which should be of more concern then padding AC's pockets.

Again, as with India, the main reason AC has been successful in DXB (as opposed to the US3 experience) is because with only 3 frequencies EK has not been able to capacity dump in Canada. It is telling that AC has the ability add more frequency to DXB but has not. It can be argued that having non-stop flights to India is more beneficial to Canadians than any expanded EK access...

The bilateral limits rights to 3x weekly per carrier. YYZ to India isn't solely successful because of the lack of EK rights, it's a testament to the large market (there are somewhere around 1 million ethnic Indians/people of Indian descent in the greater Toronto Area). Asides from NYC, no other North American city has even close to the service levels to India. Non-stop flights wouldn't go away with more EK traffic rights, it would just present more options for travellers.

EK today codeshares with Quick Shuttle bus service between Seattle and Vancouver which takes about 4:20 including immigration and customs. Such a service between Buffalo and Toronto would take half the time given the distance, and EK could make a case for it especially given the high load factors it enjoys on its 3x per week service to YYZ.

AC has been flying into DXB for a while now and I have seen that it consistently has most lower end fare classes zero'd which can be indicative of its performance. I don't know how much of AC's traffic is onward connections, but its numbers could lead to some relaxation on the Canadian government's part to have more frequencies added (they should help AC on the expansion front too, shouldn't they?!)

Still waiting for ME3's to show up at YVR. Any word on Emirates starting YVR up because if anything it sounds more realistic then Buffalo IMO.

travaz wrote:

Adipocere wrote:

PHX is certainly a big US without any transoceanic international flights (save BA) - but that is because of the poor quality of its population base. The city has relied on retirees and snowbirds far too much for economic expansion; as opposed to building a vibrant economy that can fill seats up front. In short, Phoenix, at least in its 55+ only parts, is a large death camp in the desert for mostly midwestern retirees hunkered down in cheap tract homes awaiting their ends.

I would disagree with your statement according to census data :

The median age in Phoenix was 32.2, making it among the youngest cities in the area. Tolleson was the youngest, at 26.6. Sun City is 73.6 but its a small number compared to the Phoenix population. There is also many Corporations based in Phoenix. Intel has a large presence, Google, First Solar, Go Daddy, Knight Trucking, Swift Trucking, Pet Smart, Ping etc etc.

The rumors in Phoenix for years have talked about a DBX flight. It is also said that the COP is actively courting overseas flights (thier dream is TYO). Phoenix and Dubai have a lot in common, Heat, Sun, and Sand!

The average age for the state of Arizona is 36.9 years. I suspect that this is skewed lower by areas of high Latino populations of which PHX is not. In other words, PHX is likely higher than the state average, likely pushing 40. Having said that, it is still lower than I expected.

whywhyzee wrote:

, it's a testament to the large market (there are somewhere around 1 million ethnic Indians/people of Indian descent in the greater Toronto Area). Asides from NYC, no other North American city has even close to the service levels to India.

I usually fly YYZ-LHR with BA. They typically have many Indian passengers aboard no doubt transferring at LHR. to a variety of Indian cities.

tacobell101 wrote:

Still waiting for ME3's to show up at YVR. Any word on Emirates starting YVR up because if anything it sounds more realistic then Buffalo IMO.

The ME3 are each only allowed three weekly flights to Canada. EK/EY use them to Toronto and QR to Montreal. None of them can fly to Vancouver without discontinuing/reducing service elsewhere.

This isn't exactly scientific but on my recent trip from DXB-BOS I saw more than a few bags on the belt tagged to continue on to YYZ.

EK's Canadians partners include West Jet and Porter which both fly to Boston.

The average age for the state of Arizona is 36.9 years. I suspect that this is skewed lower by areas of high Latino populations of which PHX is not. In other words, PHX is likely higher than the state average, likely pushing 40. Having said that, it is still lower than I expected.[/quote]


Population Totals

Total Hispanic Or Latino Population In Phoenix


Total Population: 589,877
Male Population: 298,982
Female Population: 290,895
Median Age By Sex

Median Age Of Hispanic Or Latino In Phoenix


Both sexes 24
Male 23
Female 24
DEMOGRAPHY OF PHOENIX:
White: 65.9% (45.6% non-Hispanic)

Dark or African American: 6.5% (6% non-Hispanic)

Local American: 2.6%

Asian: 3.2%

Local Hawaiian and Pacific Islander: 0.1%

Other race: 0.1%

Two or more races: 1.7%

Hispanic or Latino of any race: 40.8%

The most widely recognized lineages in Phoenix were: Mexican (38.4%), German (12.8%), Irish (8.8%), English (7.1%), African American (6%), Italian (4%), American (2.2%) and Polish (2.2%).

The GDP was 215 B.