Effective Feb 15th, 2017.

Daily
NH180 NRT-MEX 1640-1355 788
NH179 MEX-NRT 0100-0635 788

https://www.ana.co.jp/group/en/pr/201611/20161110.html

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New route will become ANA's longest flight

Congrats NH and MEX!

Only 169 seats. So this means that NH has a batch of 2-4-2 788s that were never reconfigured to 3-3-3??? Or is it simply that some seats will not be sold to keep the load and take-off weight light?

EddieDude wrote:

Congrats NH and MEX!

Only 169 seats. So this means that NH has a batch of 2-4-2 788s that were never reconfigured to 3-3-3??? Or is it simply that some seats will not be sold to keep the load and take-off weight light?

All of their 787s are 3-3-3 in Y. The 169 seat version is their longhaul configured -8:

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/A ... -800_C.php

Thanks for the clarification 817Dreamliner!

So the 21 Premium Economy seats will be sold as Economy? Will they be for upgrades? The NH official announcement talks about 123 Economy seats.

Excellent news for NH and MEX! I can imagine the 0100 departure from MEX will help alleviate some of the heat issues, if only subtly. Not a good day for AM...

KLM11 wrote:

the 0100 departure from MEX will help alleviate some of the heat issues, if only subtly. Not a good day for AM...

One of Airliners.net's biggest myths is that MEX is a hot place. We are way too high above the sea level to be hot. I honestly do not recall a day where the maximum temperature in Mexico City exceeded 28° Celsius (29° even seems like a stretch). Moreover, the "hot" time of the year is essentially the spring (March-May) and upper 20s is the hottest it gets during the day. Evenings are usually very pleasant. The rest of the year we have cooler temperatures.

EddieDude wrote:

KLM11 wrote:

the 0100 departure from MEX will help alleviate some of the heat issues, if only subtly. Not a good day for AM...

One of Airliners.net's biggest myths is that MEX is a hot place. We are way too high above the sea level to be hot. I honestly do not recall a day where the maximum temperature in Mexico City exceeded 28° Celsius (29° even seems like a stretch). Moreover, the "hot" time of the year is essentially the spring (March-May) and upper 20s is the hottest it gets during the day. Evenings are usually very pleasant. The rest of the year we have cooler temperatures.

It certainly can be hot in relation to ISA deviation. Standard temp in MEX is 1 degree Celsius. A temp of 20 is still quite warm considering the elevation.

I would've thought PTY before MEX. Good for ANA and MEX!

EddieDude wrote:

Thanks for the clarification 817Dreamliner!

So the 21 Premium Economy seats will be sold as Economy? Will they be for upgrades? The NH official announcement talks about 123 Economy seats.

Like on other routes they will sell Premium Economy. Plus NH Elites booked in Y can select remaining Y+ seats once OLCI openes.

TWA772LR wrote:

I would've thought PTY before MEX. Good for ANA and MEX!

Why did you think that? I do not have a source handy, but if I am not mistaken the GDP of the Greater Mexico City area is about 10x the GDP of the entire country of Panama. Plus, Mexico City is a really awesome place to visit.

TWA772LR wrote:

I would've thought PTY before MEX. Good for ANA and MEX!

By ANA's press release corportate traffic between Japan and Mexico has been growing steadily during the last few years, mostly due to auto industry.
Their presence in NRT will help catering business traffic from ICN, PVG, PEK, SIN and HKG to MEX. Their product is also miles ahead of Aeromexico and they have advantage of Japan point of sale.

NRT-PTY on the other hand would be a ULH flight (on par with ATL-JNB and SIN-SFO distance wise) catering low business traffic with a very high percentage of prorated revenue of connections to LATAM with COPA/Avianca.
A recipe for disaster.

EddieDude wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

I would've thought PTY before MEX. Good for ANA and MEX!

Why did you think that? I do not have a source handy, but if I am not mistaken the GDP of the Greater Mexico City area is about 10x the GDP of the entire country of Panama. Plus, Mexico City is a really awesome place to visit.

I was thinking more of easier accessibility to greater South America by partnering with Copa, as well as the relatively strong economic ties between Japan and Panama. But more power to MEX! And I'd love to visit Mexico City someday.

I think AM will be fine. They have loyal base in Mexico and has plenty of feed at MEX.

They should cooperate more with KE though. Hopefully they launch ICN.

TWA772LR wrote:

EddieDude wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

I would've thought PTY before MEX. Good for ANA and MEX!

Why did you think that? I do not have a source handy, but if I am not mistaken the GDP of the Greater Mexico City area is about 10x the GDP of the entire country of Panama. Plus, Mexico City is a really awesome place to visit.

I was thinking more of easier accessibility to greater South America by partnering with Copa, as well as the relatively strong economic ties between Japan and Panama. But more power to MEX! And I'd love to visit Mexico City someday.

NH has the highest cost structure of all Asian airlines (though they are trying to reduce that). They need a high amount of paying J customers to fill their low density plane. And the 788 is the lowest density long haul plane with IOJ configuration they have. They need to fill 46 J seats daily (compared to 21 Y+ and 102Y seats on the plane) Of course beeing a Japanese airline helps with the Japan point of sale and their J product is lightyears ahed of AM.

There are some business ties between Japan and Panama (though I dont know if they should be characterised as "relatively strong") but the ties between Japan and Mexico are a lot deeper.

It will be interesting to see what kind of Mexican catering they will do on this flight.

787fan8 wrote:

It will be interesting to see what kind of Mexican catering they will do on this flight.

Probably none. Most likely it will be some kind of standard "Western Option".

AM or KE should really start MEX-ICN. I'm sure there's a ton of auto industry traffic there.

TWA772LR wrote:

EddieDude wrote:

TWA772LR wrote:

I would've thought PTY before MEX. Good for ANA and MEX!

Why did you think that? I do not have a source handy, but if I am not mistaken the GDP of the Greater Mexico City area is about 10x the GDP of the entire country of Panama. Plus, Mexico City is a really awesome place to visit.

I was thinking more of easier accessibility to greater South America by partnering with Copa, as well as the relatively strong economic ties between Japan and Panama. But more power to MEX! And I'd love to visit Mexico City someday.

NH has easy accessibility to the Central and South American market through their partnership with UA at IAH. Granted, connections to deep S. America are not ideal at IAH, since NH arrives around 9am, and those departures are 12 hours later. I doubt a PTY schedule would be much better, since you'd be leaving NRT at around 2200 to make an early evening arrival possible.

DolphinAir747 wrote:

AM or KE should really start MEX-ICN. I'm sure there's a ton of auto industry traffic there.

AM has, in fact, applied for MEX-MTY-ICN-MEX route using 787-8. Lots of business and a steadily growing Korean community in northern Mexico -specially Nuevo Leon, where MTY is located- and Mexico City.

It is going to be publicly revealed early next year, might be even sooner.

Cheers!

Mex87 wrote:

DolphinAir747 wrote:

AM or KE should really start MEX-ICN. I'm sure there's a ton of auto industry traffic there.

AM has, in fact, applied for MEX-MTY-ICN-MEX route using 787-8. Lots of business and a steadily growing Korean community in northern Mexico -specially Nuevo Leon, where MTY is located- and Mexico City.

It is going to be publicly revealed early next year, might be even sooner.

Cheers!

Dont forget that Nuevo Leon has been well known by their automobile industry... especially Korean KIA in currently producing there. This leads to a notable grow of korean engineers and business men around the city. So having AM flying to ICN is not a crazy choice . In fact a very smart move by AM

PTY is ~7350 nm away from NRT, it it would be the 3rd longest regularly scheduled non-stop flight.

Something that it's missing to make ANA's MEX-NRT a success is a codeshare with LATAM as ANA's only South American partners at MEX are Copa and Avianca. Well, a codeshare agreement with Volaris or Interjet is also missing.

TWA772LR wrote:

I was thinking more of easier accessibility to greater South America by partnering with Copa

Well, as explained above, UA can help them in that area. Panama may allow for more comfortable and drama-free international-to-international connections than the U.S. (and this applies to Mexico too), but it definitely makes sense for NH to leverage their partnership with UA in order to give its passengers the option of flying one-stop from NRT to South America, especially when PTY is so far away and offers so little high-yield O&D opportunities.

thekorean wrote:

AM will be fine...They should cooperate more with KE though. Hopefully they launch ICN.

I agree AM and KE should cooperate more. I am sure they will. And yes, as explained, AM is launching MEX-MTY-ICN-MEX. This is happening very soon!

KrustyTheKlown wrote:

Something that it's missing to make ANA's MEX-NRT a success is a codeshare with LATAM

Why would LA cooperate with NH? LA already has a Japanese alliance and codeshare partner which is JL.

winGl3t wrote:

Their product is also miles ahead of Aeromexico and they have advantage of Japan point of sale.

Not so fast. Have you seen the new J-class cabin that AM will install in its entire 787-9 subfleet? It is on par with all the majors. 1-2-1 seating configuration and very large TV screens. I recently flew MEX-NRT in J on the 788 and even though it was 2-2-2, the catering was quite good (wines could be a tad better, but they are definitely solid) and the purser was wonderful. The IFE is average to above average, the Aquascutum amenity kits are also on par... AM has gotten better in long-haul in J than most people will give it credit for. I wonder whether AM will retrofit the -8s to the same J-class configuration as the -9s.

817Dreamliiner wrote:

EddieDude wrote:

Congrats NH and MEX!

Only 169 seats. So this means that NH has a batch of 2-4-2 788s that were never reconfigured to 3-3-3??? Or is it simply that some seats will not be sold to keep the load and take-off weight light?

All of their 787s are 3-3-3 in Y. The 169 seat version is their longhaul configured -8:

https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/A ... -800_C.php

Configuration also shown in the NH website. Someone should tell them that "aircrafts" is not a word.
http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/asw_commo ... l?c=b787_8

EddieDude wrote:

KrustyTheKlown wrote:

Something that it's missing to make ANA's MEX-NRT a success is a codeshare with LATAM

Why would LA cooperate with NH? LA already has a Japanese alliance and codeshare partner which is JL.

Because LATAM and JAL are only able to offer connecting flights through LAX and JFK, MEX does not require a visa for citizens of most South American countries and JL is unlikely to offer a flight to a Latin American country any time soon.

Great news although it would be even nicer if NH stopped over in YVR like it did in the old days. They still have fifth freedom rights and even if the 787 can make the trip non-stop there is no question the stop would improve the economics of the flight.

Will new MEX affect AM ability to fly nonstop to Asia?

VCEflyboy wrote:

Great news although it would be even nicer if NH stopped over in YVR like it did in the old days. They still have fifth freedom rights and even if the 787 can make the trip non-stop there is no question the stop would improve the economics of the flight.

You are confused. ANA never served Mexico. You are thinking of JAL.

duplicate.. sorry

Pardon my ignorance, but what is driving this market? Is it the auto industry?

As a Mexican, I also agree that AM or KE would begin MEX-ICN service, both founder members of SkyTeam.
AM with its 787-8 and KE... 747-8 or at least A330-300 IMO
Unfortunately, I also heard that the NH service will be delayed. Remember that MEX is a saturated hub. This note explains all...
http://www.dineroenimagen.com/2016-06-20/74529

bayside319 wrote:

Pardon my ignorance, but what is driving this market? Is it the auto industry?

Trade - Japanese investment in Mexico has increased 2,7 times since 2010 and there are 1000 Japanese companies established in Mexico with the automotive industry being the biggest. Mexican businesses have also established in Japan. ANA is already flying a lot of business traffic to the country, but funnels them to United via its hub in Houston. Business is so good that the natural next step is to launch a nonstop flight to MEX. AM itself registers a 90% load factor and it even gets higher during the busy season.

I was wondering whether Japanese carriers were going to challenge AM's direct link to Mexico.
The Japanese being rather risk averse, one can also read this news as a confirmation that AM is probably doing very well on this route.

In any case it is good to see a strengthening of direct Asia - Central America connections

EddieDude wrote:

One of Airliners.net's biggest myths is that MEX is a hot place. We are way too high above the sea level to be hot.

It might not be 'hot' by sub-tropical standards, but in the aviation jargon, it is definitely a 'hot and high' airport which has measurable effects on aircraft performance.

EddieDude wrote:

winGl3t wrote:

Their product is also miles ahead of Aeromexico and they have advantage of Japan point of sale.

Not so fast. Have you seen the new J-class cabin that AM will install in its entire 787-9 subfleet? It is on par with all the majors. 1-2-1 seating configuration and very large TV screens. I recently flew MEX-NRT in J on the 788 and even though it was 2-2-2, the catering was quite good (wines could be a tad better, but they are definitely solid) and the purser was wonderful. The IFE is average to above average, the Aquascutum amenity kits are also on par... AM has gotten better in long-haul in J than most people will give it credit for. I wonder whether AM will retrofit the -8s to the same J-class configuration as the -9s.

Well NH and AM are using the same plane on the route. AM will use the 788 for the foreseeable future and has announced no planes to retrofit them. NH has 18 J seats between door 1 and door 2 in an alternating 1-2-1 / 1-1-1 configuration providing all aisle access. AM puts 24 J seats on that same space with aisle access for only 2/3 of the passengers. While I agree that AM's soft product has gotten better it's still nowhere near NH. Thus I think it's a fair conclusion that NH's product is miles ahead in J.

razokamek wrote:

As a Mexican, I also agree that AM or KE would begin MEX-ICN service, both founder members of SkyTeam.
AM with its 787-8 and KE... 747-8 or at least A330-300 IMO
Unfortunately, I also heard that the NH service will be delayed. Remember that MEX is a saturated hub. This note explains all...
http://www.dineroenimagen.com/2016-06-20/74529

Aeromexico will take care of KE latin american affairs. We would all want to see KE aircraft at MEX...but we won't. At least for now.

About ANA.... the link you posted is old, back from June, when NH failed to get some convenient slots. The new starting date -February 15, 2017- was confirmed this month. It seems that they reached an agreement with Interjet and slots became availabe for ANA.

razokamek wrote:

Unfortunately, I also heard that the NH service will be delayed. Remember that MEX is a saturated hub. This note explains all...
http://www.dineroenimagen.com/2016-06-20/74529

If you look at the date of the article its from June. That's when NH was requesting slots from AICM and the airport couldn't provide them with adequate times. NH instead approached Interjet and secured slots from them.

Mexicana757 wrote:

If you look at the date of the article its from June. That's when NH was requesting slots from AICM and the airport couldn't provide them with adequate times. NH instead approached Interjet and secured slots from them.

Well, I didn't heard that AIJ gave slots to NH. I remembered when AZ launch FCO-MEX and in that case, I read that AIJ gave slots to AZ. But if it also do with NH. OMG!!! Very good news. JL ends, but NH continues (alongside with AM on MEX-NRT route).

I am amazed that in 2017 there will be 2 daily flights between MEX and NRT, as AM has also announced that it will bring its current flight to a daily service. Not that long ago it was JL service 2 days a week with a stopover in YVR. Traffic has grown a lot in the last few years. In 2012, 65k Japanese citizens arrived in Mexico. There were 85k en 2015 and up to 90k are expected in 2016. There is also a very growing number of Mexicans arriving into Japan (for which I have no official figures).

Regarding the still unofficial MEX-MTY-ICN, it is close to 70k South Koreans entering Mexico in 2015. Almost 15% of them used MTY as their entry airport to the country. Still, CUN is by far their preferred destination: 52% of South Koreans entered Mexico via CUN.

With the new expected protective policies of Trump's government, Mexico economy will have to rely less in the US and continue strengthening trade with other economies. So we might see more and new services to other countries.

Still 2 daily flights from between MEX and NRT are much more that

I have to wonder for both AM and NH -- how many dual Spanish/Japanese F/A speakers do they have on their roster?

It's not really a pair of languages that overlaps that much; Japan struggles as it is with English ability, so the number of Spanish speakers in Japan has to be miniscule (and people that are able to speak Spanish probably aren't F/A's, either). I can't imagine there are too many Japanese speakers in Mexico, either, so same comment would apply for AM.

Do the airlines just stick with Japanese/English (NH) and Spanish/English (AM) and hope for the best?

Cory6188 wrote:

I have to wonder for both AM and NH -- how many dual Spanish/Japanese F/A speakers do they have on their roster?

It's not really a pair of languages that overlaps that much; Japan struggles as it is with English ability, so the number of Spanish speakers in Japan has to be miniscule (and people that are able to speak Spanish probably aren't F/A's, either). I can't imagine there are too many Japanese speakers in Mexico, either, so same comment would apply for AM.

Do the airlines just stick with Japanese/English (NH) and Spanish/English (AM) and hope for the best?

I flew MTY-NRT with AM last year. There were two Japanese speakers on board. Both were Mexicans, bot one was of Japanese origin. The lady that spoke Japanase and was not of that origin seemed to do quite OK as she was speaking fluently with a pax.