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LAXintl
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Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:08 pm

Vietnam airline has applied with the DOT for rather broad authority for service between Vietnam and the US and intermediate points.

Carries says it seeks authority to service Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, Seattle, Dallas and Washington D.C. either nonstop basis or via Taipei Taiwan, Osaka and Nagoya Japan. Additionally carrier is requesting authority to offer beyond service to Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto.

Initially carrier says it plans to offer service to Los Angeles effective 2018 utilizing A350-900 equipment per below proposed schedule.

Daily
SGN-LAX 2030-2130 359
LAX-SGN 2350-0615 359

OST-2016-TBA

=

The little detail about Vietnam earning IASA Category-I rating from FAA is still pending and would be required to allow such services.
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mercure1
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:59 am

Hope they achieve their safety rating in time.

As I recall Boeing was one of the parties assisting Vietnam, so a bit surprising they will use A350 to America. 787-9 might have been more politically correct and its seating capacity is not too different.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:03 am

I hope this comes to fruition. Vietnam is on the rise and while it may not be strong enough to support a high yield right today, it certainly can in the next couple years.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:06 am

mercure1 wrote:
787-9 might have been more politically correct

They probably considered that for about 0.0002 seconds, before moving on to "...but which one of them brings us the most revenue/profit potential for various given projected scenarios?"
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:20 am

I hope they fly to the US. They have so much potential.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:29 am

mercure1 wrote:
Hope they achieve their safety rating in time.

As I recall Boeing was one of the parties assisting Vietnam, so a bit surprising they will use A350 to America. 787-9 might have been more politically correct and its seating capacity is not too different.

Does the 789 have the range?
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:33 am

LAX772LR wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
787-9 might have been more politically correct

They probably considered that for about 0.0002 seconds, before moving on to "...but which one of them brings us the most revenue/profit potential for various given projected scenarios?"


Yup, particularly over a 13,000+km route.

Is DL helping VN out in a similar way to how they helped out GA?
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:37 am

TPE will never happen. Too much competition from BR and CI. They would never let VN.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:41 am

If VN proves successful in LAX, could we see United launch SFO-SGN?
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:42 am

I hope it happens. More variety to the USA, and helping open up Vietnam. (I highly recommend visiting by the way!)

Does anyone think there's a possibility in the long term of HAN getting US service? I'd expect SGN to get any routes first, but could both of them support a flight? Even with a 789?
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:49 am

MrHMSH wrote:
I hope it happens. More variety to the USA, and helping open up Vietnam. (I highly recommend visiting by the way!)

Does anyone think there's a possibility in the long term of HAN getting US service? I'd expect SGN to get any routes first, but could both of them support a flight? Even with a 789?

I can see the possibility of HAN-USA in the medium term, but a lot of Vietnam-USA traffic is more centered around SGN, particularly due to the Vietnam War. I know I'm going wayyyyy out on a limb saying this, but if soon-to-be POTUS Trump fosters good relations with Vietnam, and SE Asia in particular, I can see VN going for a prestige/good will HAN-IAD/JFK flight.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:54 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I can see the possibility of HAN-USA in the medium term, but a lot of Vietnam-USA traffic is more centred around SGN, particularly due to the Vietnam War. I know I'm going wayyyyy out on a limb saying this, but if soon-to-be POTUS Trump fosters good relations with Vietnam, and SE Asia in particular, I can see VN going for a prestige/good will HAN-IAD/JFK flight.


With the 789? Seems more suited if the routes aren't as busy as SGN. I do somehow doubt Trump will make relations much easier, the only thing they have in common is mistrust of China.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:02 am

MrHMSH wrote:
I do somehow doubt Trump will make relations much easier, the only thing they have in common is mistrust of China.

That's why I said "wayyyyyy out on a limb". But that's essentially why Nixon opened relations with China, a common mistrust of the Kremlin at the time, so there is some kind of precedence. That's the beauty of global aviation, you never know what can/will happen! :)
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:16 am

hayzel777 wrote:
TPE will never happen. Too much competition from BR and CI. They would never let VN.


Well, it is not up to CI or BR. Vietnam has 5th freedom ex-Taiwan so VN can certainly start the service. Whether it will last is another question. And my opinion is that it will because it makes plenty of economic sense for VN to stop in TPE.

There is almost no penalty to operate SGN-TPE-LAX instead of SGN-LAX because TPE lies perfectly on the great circle path - no deviation required. So unless VN can get a significant premium flying non-stop between SGN and LAX on a consistent basis vs. via TPE (highly doubtful) then it makes no economic sense to skip the stop TPE. The fuel cost saving alone is worth it even if you don't factor in 5th freedom revenue.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=SGN-TPE-LAX,+SGN-LAX

But there is probably non-economic reasons for VN to offer non-stop flight.

I suspect that eventually, the service will only be non-stop on selected days and VN will operate mixed SGN-LAX and SGN-TPE-LAX frequencies rounding out a 7x weekly schedule between SGN and LAX
Last edited by bzcat on Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
whywhyzee
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:17 am

Just want to clarify what is meant by beyond service where it mentions YYZ, YVR and YUL.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:20 am

whywhyzee wrote:
Just want to clarify what is meant by beyond service where it mentions YYZ, YVR and YUL.


Beyond service from the US

e.g. SGN-LAX-YYZ
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:54 pm

The comment of Boeing is interesting

Boeing in 2015 was specifically brought in by the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam (CAAV) to provide technical and training assistance in order for VN to be able to launch US services.

Boeing to assist Vietnam in qualifying for operating nonstop US service
http://tuoitrenews.vn/business/25667/bo ... us-service

=
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:01 pm

The list of potential destinations seems to mostly make sense. I do wonder about Dallas, though... I have heard about the large Vietnamese population in Houston - are there similar connections between Vietnam and Dallas? TPE could make sense as an intermediate point on a potential SGN-DFW route, as there is currently no nonstop service on that route. IAD also doesn't have a nonstop to TPE, although BR has put that on the short list. KIX could make sense as an intermediate stop for JFK-SGN - it's crazy to me that Japan's #2 metro has been unable to sustain nonstop service to New York up to this point...
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:24 pm

LAXintl wrote:
The comment of Boeing is interesting

Boeing in 2015 was specifically brought in by the Civil Aviation Authority of Vietnam (CAAV) to provide technical and training assistance in order for VN to be able to launch US services.

Boeing to assist Vietnam in qualifying for operating nonstop US service
http://tuoitrenews.vn/business/25667/bo ... us-service

=


Wasn't this connected with the LOI or MOU for 778s?
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:37 pm

According to 2010 Census

TOP 5 U.S. METROPOLITAN WITH LARGEST VIETNAMESE POPULATION
1 Southern California 425,645
2 Northern California 337,094
3 Houston 170,917
4 Dallas - Fortworth 143,908
5 Virginia - Washington D.C. - Maryland 116,348


http://vietv.com/10-vietnamese-populati ... tates.html

Image
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 5:20 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Wasn't this connected with the LOI or MOU for 778s?


It was not even a LOI or MOU, it was just a proposal from Boeing towards VN.

Then they signed a MoU with Airbus for the 280t MTOW A350.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:16 pm

Wonder if Delta will cooperate with VN, or also give them the cold shoulder like many other Skyteam members?
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:22 pm

LAXintl wrote:
According to 2010 Census

TOP 5 U.S. METROPOLITAN WITH LARGEST VIETNAMESE POPULATION
1 Southern California 425,645
2 Northern California 337,094
3 Houston 170,917
4 Dallas - Fortworth 143,908
5 Virginia - Washington D.C. - Maryland 116,348


http://vietv.com/10-vietnamese-populati ... tates.html

Image


Thanks for the info. It seems their list of potential destinations makes quite a bit of sense given the metro areas that have large Veitnamese populations.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:41 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Wonder if Delta will cooperate with VN, or also give them the cold shoulder like many other Skyteam members?


No clue what DL would do in 2018, but today atleast VN is pretty far down the totem pole the manner Delta ranks its partners in Skymiles.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:27 pm

SGN-IAD is a staggering 8,997 miles ! Not sure if it would be profitable nonstop, given that the market between the 2 cities would be overwhelmingly VFR...
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:05 am

If timed correctly, the connection via TPE could also receive feed from CI.

Interestingly, though - this likely lowers AA's expectations of a profitability on the LAX-TPE route (and blunts some hopes of a launch).
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:14 am

Why would they not operate TPE-YYZ or NGO-YYZ? Would they have much luck on a LAX-YYZ with 5th Freedom rights? The prospect of YYZ sounds exciting. There is a sizeable Vietnamese community in Toronto, If not tons of Vietnamese restaurants.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 12, 2016 1:12 am

Flightsimboy wrote:
Why would they not operate TPE-YYZ or NGO-YYZ? Would they have much luck on a LAX-YYZ with 5th Freedom rights? The prospect of YYZ sounds exciting. There is a sizeable Vietnamese community in Toronto, If not tons of Vietnamese restaurants.


Probably because VN doesn't have the rights to operate 5th freedom between Taiwan (or Japan) and Canada.

The Taiwan-Canada air service agreement is highly restrictive in both carriers and frequency and limited to carriers from the two countries.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 12, 2016 4:52 am

iadadd wrote:
SGN-IAD is a staggering 8,997 miles ! Not sure if it would be profitable nonstop, given that the market between the 2 cities would be overwhelmingly VFR...


Thats why routing authority via Taiwan and Japan is being applied for as well..

When the day comes for IAD flight, it could very well be via TPE, KIX or NGO.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 12, 2016 8:48 am

Vietnam Canada is not a very big market mind you and maximum it could warrant a three weekly YVR SGN service !

Also this proposed schedule for LAX means that they are mainly focusing on p2p traffic with little feed for East Coast in partnership with DL connecting on the red eye flights.

For JFK if they are really keen then they should look at flying via KIX only and take advantage of the monopolistic position on offer.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:09 pm

Pretty amazing how big Vietnam-USA market is and that it lacks service all these years (I am not counting UA 737 via HKG).

Certainly other Asian airlines must be earning good money carrying large volume of connection traffic via their hubs between USA and Vietnam.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:14 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Certainly other Asian airlines must be earning good money carrying large volume of connection traffic via their hubs between USA and Vietnam.


Yes Vietnam is often one of the top beyond transfer markets for carriers like Cathay, EVA from the US.

Nonstop service would certainly shift some of that traffic in favor of VN.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:49 pm

LAXintl wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Certainly other Asian airlines must be earning good money carrying large volume of connection traffic via their hubs between USA and Vietnam.


Yes Vietnam is often one of the top beyond transfer markets for carriers like Cathay, EVA from the US.

Nonstop service would certainly shift some of that traffic in favor of VN.



One of my employees just came back from visiting her family in SGN, a couple more are heading over in the next month, I told them about the plans to launch from LAX, they were not impressed, according to them (small sample size I know) VN has a horrible reputation in the Vietnamese community, with BR or CX being the preferred airlines. Fom the reports I have read on here, the product seems fine, certainly not up to the standards of CX, but not horrible.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:16 pm

Really hope this pans out! Getting there is such a pain now from the states. Have flown VN on a few domestic flights and loved them. Our daughter was adopted from Vietnam and we love the people, culture and of course the amazing food! Looking forward to an STL-LAX-SGN! Last time we went we had to route, STL-DEN-SFO-ICN-SGN. :shakehead:
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:00 pm

Poor reputation or not, considering how price sensitive the market is they should not have much trouble filing the planes.

Anyhow, overtime VN will certainly improve. They might not become a SQ, but they certainly should atleast become a mid-tier offering in their region.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:54 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Pretty amazing how big Vietnam-USA market is and that it lacks service all these years

What's so amazing about that?
It's a large market, but not a particularly lucrative one.

It's not rare to find cheaper fares on LAX-Vietnam (especially on BR/KE/OZ) than on LAX to the east coast.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:31 pm

behramjee wrote:
Vietnam Canada is not a very big market mind you and maximum it could warrant a three weekly YVR SGN service !

Also this proposed schedule for LAX means that they are mainly focusing on p2p traffic with little feed for East Coast in partnership with DL connecting on the red eye flights.

For JFK if they are really keen then they should look at flying via KIX only and take advantage of the monopolistic position on offer.


I don't know where you are getting your information from, but the GTAA was reporting internally that the Vietnam-YYZ market was 30000 pax annually 2 years ago, and they expected 100000 pax annually within 5 years of the report. That translates to a lot of seats. The market is there, its just constrained by distance and regulations. I think routing it via LAX would make a lot of sense, if they could partner with WS, they could really give AC a run on the route with 5th freedoms.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:42 pm

Wow ... Surprised Oklahoma isn't in the top 10. Large Viet population in OKC - especially for a city of our size. Shocks people when I tell them we have a Little Saigon!
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:54 am

9w748capt wrote:
Wow ... Surprised Oklahoma isn't in the top 10. Large Viet population in OKC - especially for a city of our size. Shocks people when I tell them we have a Little Saigon!


Probably will be a 5th Freedom tag on eventual SGN-SFO-OKC .......


:rotfl: :rotfl:
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:13 am

jetwet1 wrote:
One of my employees just came back from visiting her family in SGN, a couple more are heading over in the next month, I told them about the plans to launch from LAX, they were not impressed, according to them (small sample size I know) VN has a horrible reputation in the Vietnamese community, with BR or CX being the preferred airlines. Fom the reports I have read on here, the product seems fine, certainly not up to the standards of CX, but not horrible.


I flew with Vietnam twice last month - SGN-HAN and then a few days later HAN-CDG.

I'm not Vietnamese, but I think they're a fine airline and I got to fly on the A350 - yay! Everything worked very efficiently and pleasantly. Maybe the cabin crew were a bit bland compared with, say, Singapore, but that's no bad thing - I find the "Singapore Girls" overly conscious of being the Singapore Girls.

It was the fist time I'd been to Vietnam, and generally it knocked me for six, especially Ha Noi. It reminded of me of what Bangkok was like before the tourist hordes and the sex tourists. I'd go back in a heartbeat. Image

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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:35 am

Very excited about VN coming here to Los Angeles. LAX-SGN on a VN A359 is probably my favorite future fantasy route and I do think it was inevitable. Wondering how people here think this will perform given the constant shadow put on the feasibility of TG (BKK in general), MH, and GA operating to LAX successfully.

It's exciting this will be non-stop as I was disappointed SQ picked SFO for non-stop SIN on the A359 (while taking away our A380 to NRT)

Curious about the prospects of a UA 787 SFO-SGN, given it would have been easier for them on the regulatory side (at least in the USA) than for VN
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:06 am

jetwet1 wrote:
One of my employees just came back from visiting her family in SGN, a couple more are heading over in the next month, I told them about the plans to launch from LAX, they were not impressed, according to them (small sample size I know) VN has a horrible reputation in the Vietnamese community, with BR or CX being the preferred airlines. Fom the reports I have read on here, the product seems fine, certainly not up to the standards of CX, but not horrible.


In my experience, Australian Vietnamese fly VN because of convenience; the prices VN charges for Tet and peak seasons is sort of crazy, 1.5k+ AUD, and they are willing to pay that price. Even though there are other alternatives such as SQ, TG, MH, CX, CI etc... But during the quieter months during the year, they do offer attractive fares to other destinations in Asia and onwards to Europe, which Australians are increasingly using.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:19 am

LAX772LR wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Pretty amazing how big Vietnam-USA market is and that it lacks service all these years

What's so amazing about that?
It's a large market, but not a particularly lucrative one.

It's not rare to find cheaper fares on LAX-Vietnam (especially on BR/KE/OZ) than on LAX to the east coast.



Is that class for class? I use Mint as a matter of routine and I can't remember the last time it set me back more than 1100/rt.

That's pretty inexpensive for LAX-SGN.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:43 am

mariner wrote:
I flew with Vietnam twice last month - SGN-HAN and then a few days later HAN-CDG.

I'm not Vietnamese, but I think they're a fine airline and I got to fly on the A350 - yay! Everything worked very efficiently and pleasantly. Maybe the cabin crew were a bit bland compared with, say, Singapore, but that's no bad thing - I find the "Singapore Girls" overly conscious of being the Singapore Girls.

It was the fist time I'd been to Vietnam, and generally it knocked me for six, especially Ha Noi. It reminded of me of what Bangkok was like before the tourist hordes and the sex tourists. I'd go back in a heartbeat. Image

mariner


Thank you for your feedback, it's certainly good to get more opinions and I will be sure to keep an eye open for more trip reports which I am sure will come as VN opens more routes.

I looked at the pictures my employee took and yes I agree, it's now very high on our list of places to visit 2017 is full right now, early 2018 we are off to Italy again for a couple of weeks, maybe in the autumn we could head over there and if VN has a decent front cabin I may well book us on them, my mother in law is heading there in 2 weeks time, but on CX I think, I will be getting more feedback on the country from her I am sure.

kriskim wrote:

In my experience, Australian Vietnamese fly VN because of convenience; the prices VN charges for Tet and peak seasons is sort of crazy, 1.5k+ AUD, and they are willing to pay that price. Even though there are other alternatives such as SQ, TG, MH, CX, CI etc... But during the quieter months during the year, they do offer attractive fares to other destinations in Asia and onwards to Europe, which Australians are increasingly using.


Interesting, maybe it's a cultural hangover with Vietnamese people in the US ? I will dig deeper tomorrow and report back.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:12 am

Just to report, I spoke to a couple of my Vietnamese employees today, it seems the main issue with them isn't once they are on board, it's more to do with the constantly changing schedules and general punctuality.
 
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:00 am

LAXintl wrote:
iadadd wrote:
SGN-IAD is a staggering 8,997 miles ! Not sure if it would be profitable nonstop, given that the market between the 2 cities would be overwhelmingly VFR...


Thats why routing authority via Taiwan and Japan is being applied for as well..

When the day comes for IAD flight, it could very well be via TPE, KIX or NGO.


Now that ANA have 8% shares of Vietnam Airlines, ANA can help push for Japan 5th Freedom
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:08 am

I imagine a scissor hub in NGO: HAN-NGO-SFO 4 weekly, HAN-NGO-LAX 3 weekly, SGN-NGO-SFO 3 weekly and SGN-NGO-LAX 4 weekly. A pipe dream I know....
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:12 am

Instead of SFO, they can go to SJC since SJC is courting for more international flights and they can get cheaper landing fee.
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Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:05 am

jetwet1 wrote:
Just to report, I spoke to a couple of my Vietnamese employees today, it seems the main issue with them isn't once they are on board, it's more to do with the constantly changing schedules and general punctuality.


Maybe for regional flights within Asia and domestic flights (domestic being the worst offender!), but their long haul flights are quite punctual and on time! So I'd expect flights to LAX to be the same if they were to happen
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texan
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Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

Re: Vietnam Airlines applies for LAX - A350

Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:08 am

FSDan wrote:
The list of potential destinations seems to mostly make sense. I do wonder about Dallas, though... I have heard about the large Vietnamese population in Houston - are there similar connections between Vietnam and Dallas? TPE could make sense as an intermediate point on a potential SGN-DFW route, as there is currently no nonstop service on that route. IAD also doesn't have a nonstop to TPE, although BR has put that on the short list. KIX could make sense as an intermediate stop for JFK-SGN - it's crazy to me that Japan's #2 metro has been unable to sustain nonstop service to New York up to this point...


DFW has a pretty large Vietnamese population and has, or at least used to have (haven't looked at it in about a decade), a Vietnamese-language daily newspaper. Population was centred in Garland and Richardson back in the early 2000s.

Texan
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