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Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:10 am

Welcome to Australian Aviation Thread Part 147, please add your comments below

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1345253&p=19187513#p19187513

In Part 146 we discussed

4000 QF ground staff agree to a 18 month wage freeze, instead will receive a bonus
MU to fly 77W to MEL during W16
VH-OEH bird strike at SFO
Australian airlines ban Samsung Galaxy note 7
QF to upgrade QF71/72 PER-SIN to A332 during busy Xmas season
Eff 30 Jan 17 QF will reduce MEL-LAX to a daily service with holiday periods going to 10 weekly, MEL-HKG will see 744 on a daily basis
Continuing delays in TG sending A350 to MEL
VA announces partnership with Coles
QF operates a SYD-PVG flight via Wellcamp to pick up a delegation
EK boss backs QF non-stop PER-LHR
Discussions with PER airport taking too long re: PER-LHR
AJ says LHR is currently a challenge due to number of competitors , non-stop would improve operations
AA 77W spends say in SYD for marketing purposes
QF reveals revised livery
AA loads Jan-Jul
HBA freight flights
QF reveals initial 789 seating
QF combined domestic/international ops at PER airport
CA pushes back SZX-Mel to 9 Jan 17
QF BNE-POM starts
AC upgrade YVR-BNE to 789
MU eyes more flights, new routes in the next year
QF reports lower 1st quarter revenue, expects reduced first half profit
Fly Corporate begins BNE-TMW
Hoax article on VA financial situation
VA reports first quarter statutory loss of $34.6 million
EK PER flights, currently experiencing rather poor loads
EY to send 2 class 789’s to BNE eff 1 Dec 16
QF currently reviewing leases on the 2 non refurbed A332’s
Passenger tries to open cabin door mid flight on an inbound AC flight to BNE
Construction begins on railway line to PER airport
EY engineering receives CASA certification
QF resumes seasonal PER-AKL
Someone posing as ATC in MEL
QF Group converts 45 A320neos into A321neos, potential of operating in mainline
WIFI has been installed on 1st 737 for QF
First Asiana A380 lands in SYD
Aircraft damaged in BNE due to storm
Financial viability of combining domestic/international ops in T3/T4 at PER versus bussing across from T4 to T1
Fate of older QF non-ER 747’s once 789’s arrive
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:15 am

In regards to the 789 there was a rumour a couple weeks ago that the first 3 routes would be

MEL-LAX
MEL-PER-LHR
BNE-LAX-JFK

If this is the case, this would allow QF to retire the 2 oldest 744's
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An767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:49 am

Would not mind trying PER-LHR in J , could not be any worse than SYD -LHR with the wake up call that is Dubai .

Seems strange that a certain member who spat the dummy over the new QF scheme has not been seen since ?

AN767
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Bluebird191
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:04 am

qf789 wrote:
In regards to the 789 there was a rumour a couple weeks ago that the first 3 routes would be

MEL-LAX
MEL-PER-LHR
BNE-LAX-JFK

If this is the case, this would allow QF to retire the 2 oldest 744's


Can QF15/16 afford to drop 100 economy seats? The 77W is a much better aircraft BNE-LAX-BNE rather than the 789's, thanks to the lower economy count - I've said this a heap of times here before, but QF15/16 sees pax loads too good for the big drop in numbers of economy seats, unless, QF are going to introduce "standing fares", oversell, send pax via SYD or MEL, or very seriously risk losing them to VA or NZ.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:14 am

qf2220 wrote:
Re PER, would it be possible for QF to run select domestic flights into the INT terminal, i.e. ones that were likely to have a higher proportion of international pax on them? One of them could be the 789 that would probably have to cycle across from the east coast somewhere anyway (probably SYD) and might be carrying a bunch of the connecting pax anyway. I don't know if you could board domestic pax efficiently through the INT terminal for other flights (or the return 789), or if you would (unlikely) transfer the plane across to DOM for the returning flight, but this might be a partial workaround that would reduce costs.


The set up for arriving passengers at the International Terminal directs passengers to walk through the inevitable duty free area to the E-Gates and staffed gates. It would be necessary to set up a separate lane and to ensure that passengers on arriving international flights did not get mixed up with arriving domestic passengers. Passengers would then need to proceed through Border Force for departure. The arrivals and departure security screening are on different levels of the terminal.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:31 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
In regards to the 789 there was a rumour a couple weeks ago that the first 3 routes would be

MEL-LAX
MEL-PER-LHR
BNE-LAX-JFK

If this is the case, this would allow QF to retire the 2 oldest 744's


Can QF15/16 afford to drop 100 economy seats? The 77W is a much better aircraft BNE-LAX-BNE rather than the 789's, thanks to the lower economy count - I've said this a heap of times here before, but QF15/16 sees pax loads too good for the big drop in numbers of economy seats, unless, QF are going to introduce "standing fares", oversell, send pax via SYD or MEL, or very seriously risk losing them to VA or NZ.


I don't think they could afford to drop the seats unless they (or AA) either launch BNE-DFW or a second daily (or 3-5x weekly) BNE-LAX.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:56 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
In regards to the 789 there was a rumour a couple weeks ago that the first 3 routes would be

MEL-LAX
MEL-PER-LHR
BNE-LAX-JFK

If this is the case, this would allow QF to retire the 2 oldest 744's


Can QF15/16 afford to drop 100 economy seats? The 77W is a much better aircraft BNE-LAX-BNE rather than the 789's, thanks to the lower economy count - I've said this a heap of times here before, but QF15/16 sees pax loads too good for the big drop in numbers of economy seats, unless, QF are going to introduce "standing fares", oversell, send pax via SYD or MEL, or very seriously risk losing them to VA or NZ.


Good question. If the 789 will replace at least 2 of the oldest 744 utilised on some of the current routes, it covers J and Y+ seating pretty well, but can the big drop in vanilla Y seats be offset by lower operating costs/less sale fares required?
Most of Qantas 744 routes I've looked at on expertflyer an hour or so out (when seat allocation has largely been done, not making that mistake again :oops: ) are fairly full, if not chockers on many services.

Qantas would have modelled this in detail, so what are the routes where loads are lightest (comparatively) and may be good candidates for replacement?
No obvious candidates IMO without knowing the breakdown of sale fares required in economy. I'd say SYD-HND and SYD-HKG are probably definitely out, everytime I've looked lately they're packed.
Not that the 789 won't be a great aircraft for Qantas but those 744's look like they're currently serving their routes well in terms of loadings achieved.
 
kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:02 am

I don't think they will be placed on MEL-LAX now, considering that QF95/96 has now reverted to a seasonal operation. I don't see the A380's being dropped from MEL-LAX under any circumstances, even if MEL-DFW is launched or AA starts if own services, MEL-LAX could still pull its own weight as one of QF's flagship routes.

Maybe QF might place the 789 on MEL-LAX seasonally to start off with? After the seasonal services end, QF will launch MEL-DFW.

In other news, I have been seeing congestion issues at MEL lately. Last Saturday I saw the arriving UA flight waiting for around 30 minutes for its gate because the NZ flight was still occupying it, the GA flight from CGK also had to wait for MH to vacate it's gate for it to come in. There were international planes parked all other the place with a few flights using bus gates. I enjoyed the sight as it made MEL look quite busy, like an international hub, but there are no plans to extend the terminal to allow for more gates which is worrying!
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:37 am

An767 wrote:
Seems strange that a certain member who spat the dummy over the new QF scheme has not been seen since ?
AN767


I hope your not referring to me... :roll:

Other news QF celebrates their 96th Birthday today :birthday:

EK413
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qf002
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:05 pm

kriskim wrote:
I don't think they will be placed on MEL-LAX now, considering that QF95/96 has now reverted to a seasonal operation.


Yep, it makes very little sense to drop the second flight now if they are planning to pick it back up again in a year's time. And in any case, it would make far more sense for AA to pick up a hypothetical second daily MEL-LAX with QF focusing on something new instead.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:07 pm

I know the domestic tags on international sectors is now longer in vogue (are there any left even) but I used to love getting 747s SYD-BNE/MEL. Managed the 200s, 300s, the SP (all to BNE) and 400 on AN BNE-SYD (as it came back in from KIX) and then on UA down to Melbourne and back in September 2001. You used to get a big orange D sticker on your boarding pass (on which your driving licence number was written) which used to let you go in the Australian and NZ passport holders' queue (where they cross checked your driving licence to the boarding card) and then through the nothing to declare AQIS lane (which has long since gone - although may be making a comeback). I once got admonished for having a banana muffin purchased at McDonalds in the Sydney international terminal and trying to take it into Melbourne!

JQ were running 787s SYD-MEL and vv last year as well as a MEL-OOL ... I did try and get on them (mainly to get into the QF F lounge) but sat on my hands too long and they were pulled.
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kriskim
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:48 pm

luftaom wrote:
JQ were running 787s SYD-MEL and vv last year as well as a MEL-OOL ... I did try and get on them (mainly to get into the QF F lounge) but sat on my hands too long and they were pulled.


There are still plenty of MEL-SYD/CNS/OOL flights, you just need to look extra hard for them, the schedules do change from week to week as these are alignment flights, with MEL being JQ's long haul hub, there are quite a few of them!

Keep in mind that these flights sometimes get "cancelled", pax get rebooked on the normal domestic A320 services whilst the 787's fly out empty.
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Gemuser
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:08 pm

KruegerFlaps wrote:
The set up for arriving passengers at the International Terminal directs passengers to walk through the inevitable duty free area to the E-Gates and staffed gates. It would be necessary to set up a separate lane and to ensure that passengers on arriving international flights did not get mixed up with arriving domestic passengers. Passengers would then need to proceed through Border Force for departure. The arrivals and departure security screening are on different levels of the terminal.

Sorry, this is just wrong. There is a system IN PLACE, and has been for many years, to allow this to happen. I have used it myself between SYD & CNS vv when QF flew on to Japan.
They domestic sectors are NOT domestic flights, they are international flights and operate from International terminal to International terminal. All pax check in at the International terminal and must produce a photo id. They then receive a boarding pass marked with a big "D". They use this as a defacto passport. They go through the SAME outwards and inwards Customs & Immigration like all other pax, again using the "D" boarding pass, you pick up your bags and walk out showing the boarding pass again. No special arrangements are required at either end [except for the "D" boarding pass system]
So for the theoretical PER-LHR service, which I assume would start from SYD or MEL could carry domestic pax using the "D" system to the PER international terminal. Of course pax from other ports would have to make a domestic to international transfer in PER, which may put some people off.

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:44 pm

Other news QF celebrates their 96th Birthday today :birthday:

EK413[/quote]

Only another 4 years, it will be interesting to see have they mark their 100th year. A selection of retro liveries from over the years (in addition to the two they have) perhaps? Have to wait and see.


Interested to read about the 787 on the SYD-MEL flights, do they operate them all year round like that or just peak times? Only I might try and catch one when I'm down there in Feb 17, if I'm lucky,
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:26 pm

It's been a while (18 months) since I looked - but there used to be 2 SYD-MEL a week in each direction - ostensibly to cycle aircraft into and out of other trip patterns (and also to be able to offer a flight from both SYD and MEL to XYZ on the same day (by starting it in one and stopping in the other before proceeding to XYZ). The way to find them was to search on Jetstar and if you had an extra column pop up in their matrix (to the right of where it says Starter economy class) with 'business class' you had your flight as only the 787s have business.

In September last year they were really mucking around with (what had previously been pretty firm) schedules (subject to the cancellation issue Kriskim mentioned above). I just had a look for a random week in January and couldn't see any (but that may very well not be indicative).
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An767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:28 pm

EK413 wrote:
An767 wrote:
Seems strange that a certain member who spat the dummy over the new QF scheme has not been seen since ?
AN767


I hope your not referring to me... :roll:

Other news QF celebrates their 96th Birthday today :birthday:

EK413



No EK413 not you
AN767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:45 pm

An767 wrote:
Seems strange that a certain member who spat the dummy over the new QF scheme has not been seen since ?


There are things more significant than the QF scheme that have caused regular posters to leave - I've not seen some (e.g. Ryanairguru) for quite some time, since perhaps the remodelling of the forum layout.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:27 pm

There is an opportunity for PER and QF to be innovative and forward thinking here. If PER LHR works it could open the door to move ULH flying from Australia to Europe and make PER the westbound/northbound gateway for Australia. There are enough qantas frequent fliers and corporate accounts that will route through PER to LHR or CDG or FRA or elsewhere to make the routes work. Even India could make a comeback.

Given how long it took PER airport to build the A380 gate and the new virgin terminal (and the repeated delays), it is going to be a very long time before a new terminal is built on the international side of the airfield to accomodate all of QF flying.

If I was flying the route I'd much rather use the existing QF terminal and the old virgin terminal. International is a dump - even after the refurbish and is hopelessly cramped. Until everyone is all in one big terminal at PER the best short term option is to let QF have a go at the route in its current space.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:44 pm

redroo wrote:
There is an opportunity for PER and QF to be innovative and forward thinking here. If PER LHR works it could open the door to move ULH flying from Australia to Europe and make PER the westbound/northbound gateway for Australia.


Sounds great on paper but why would you choose to transfer at perth with a minimum 3-4 hours layover when you can do this much easier (i.e. without the hassle of picking up/rechecking baggage, immigration before domestic transfer) and without the risk of missing the connecting flight at DXB/SIN/Asia... Why does AU have these idiotic biosecurity laws anyway, as if there aren't enough nasty insects/animals/whatever around
 
An767
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:21 pm

qf2220 wrote:
An767 wrote:
Seems strange that a certain member who spat the dummy over the new QF scheme has not been seen since ?


There are things more significant than the QF scheme that have caused regular posters to leave - I've not seen some (e.g. Ryanairguru) for quite some time, since perhaps the remodelling of the forum layout.

True qf2220, but the guy I am thinking of was a regular who had some good points to raise with his input

AN767
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jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:25 pm

downdata wrote:
redroo wrote:
There is an opportunity for PER and QF to be innovative and forward thinking here. If PER LHR works it could open the door to move ULH flying from Australia to Europe and make PER the westbound/northbound gateway for Australia.


Sounds great on paper but why would you choose to transfer at perth with a minimum 3-4 hours layover when you can do this much easier (i.e. without the hassle of picking up/rechecking baggage, immigration before domestic transfer) and without the risk of missing the connecting flight at DXB/SIN/Asia... Why does AU have these idiotic biosecurity laws anyway, as if there aren't enough nasty insects/animals/whatever around


Your bags would more than likely be through checked anyway, so outbound at least should not be a worry. Inbound, well a lot of countries do customs checks at the first port of arrival into the country anyway, so doing that on arrival in PER, then drop off at the appropriate counter and then pick it up at the carousel and walk out of the terminal at the final destination, not a big deal.

As for the "idiotic biosecurity laws" tell that to the people who work on the land in this country. They would just love a non native bug to set up house in Australia and eat their way through our wheat crops as an example, with no natural enemy to stop them. Wipe out a multi billion dollar industry because someone thinks our bio security laws are idiotic.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:57 pm

jupiter2 wrote:
As for the "idiotic biosecurity laws" tell that to the people who work on the land in this country. They would just love a non native bug to set up house in Australia and eat their way through our wheat crops as an example, with no natural enemy to stop them. Wipe out a multi billion dollar industry because someone thinks our bio security laws are idiotic.


Image

Among the great fears, both in Australia and New Zealand, are the cattle diseases, mad-cow and foot and mouth disease. If either became established it would devastate the local cattle industries.

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:00 am

jupiter2 wrote:
"idiotic biosecurity laws"


Please read up on why we need quarantine - yes we have nasties etc, but there are far bigger ones that would decimate some of our production centres, from which they may not recover. I (and many if not all I know) would prefer to be inconvenienced for 15 minutes than destroy an industry... I grew up on a farm and have seen some of the far milder invasions of pests and diseases (e.g. aphids, leaf rusts) and the additional cost they cause is not something any industry needs. Id hate to see a big pest/disease get through the net.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:29 am

qf2220 wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
"idiotic biosecurity laws"


Please read up on why we need quarantine - yes we have nasties etc, but there are far bigger ones that would decimate some of our production centres, from which they may not recover. I (and many if not all I know) would prefer to be inconvenienced for 15 minutes than destroy an industry... I grew up on a farm and have seen some of the far milder invasions of pests and diseases (e.g. aphids, leaf rusts) and the additional cost they cause is not something any industry needs. Id hate to see a big pest/disease get through the net.


And if you bothered to read my entire post, you would've noted I was replying to another poster who had called our quarantine laws idiotic. I worked air freight for 20 years, I know how vital our quarantine laws are and have seen them in action first hand in our warehouse. We all need to stay vigilant, as there are many people who couldn't give a rats arse about our laws, country and the relevant industries that rely on these laws being enforced, all for their own short term self indulgence.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:51 am

luftaom wrote:
It's been a while (18 months) since I looked - but there used to be 2 SYD-MEL a week in each direction - ostensibly to cycle aircraft into and out of other trip patterns (and also to be able to offer a flight from both SYD and MEL to XYZ on the same day (by starting it in one and stopping in the other before proceeding to XYZ). The way to find them was to search on Jetstar and if you had an extra column pop up in their matrix (to the right of where it says Starter economy class) with 'business class' you had your flight as only the 787s have business.

In September last year they were really mucking around with (what had previously been pretty firm) schedules (subject to the cancellation issue Kriskim mentioned above). I just had a look for a random week in January and couldn't see any (but that may very well not be indicative).


There are BNE-SYD and BNE-MEL flights throughout November and December. Now that BNE-HNL is cancelled, they need to position the aircraft around more often. Every now and then we get a BNE-CNS flight as well.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:55 am

jupiter2 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
"idiotic biosecurity laws"


Please read up on why we need quarantine - yes we have nasties etc, but there are far bigger ones that would decimate some of our production centres, from which they may not recover. I (and many if not all I know) would prefer to be inconvenienced for 15 minutes than destroy an industry... I grew up on a farm and have seen some of the far milder invasions of pests and diseases (e.g. aphids, leaf rusts) and the additional cost they cause is not something any industry needs. Id hate to see a big pest/disease get through the net.


And if you bothered to read my entire post, you would've noted I was replying to another poster who had called our quarantine laws idiotic. I worked air freight for 20 years, I know how vital our quarantine laws are and have seen them in action first hand in our warehouse. We all need to stay vigilant, as there are many people who couldn't give a rats arse about our laws, country and the relevant industries that rely on these laws being enforced, all for their own short term self indulgence.


I absolutely apologise Jupiter2 - I picked up the wrong post when I clicked the reply with quote button. I wasnt taking enough care in this instance.

I should have picked up downdata's post, not yours. Again, sorry.
 
jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:22 am

qf2220 wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Please read up on why we need quarantine - yes we have nasties etc, but there are far bigger ones that would decimate some of our production centres, from which they may not recover. I (and many if not all I know) would prefer to be inconvenienced for 15 minutes than destroy an industry... I grew up on a farm and have seen some of the far milder invasions of pests and diseases (e.g. aphids, leaf rusts) and the additional cost they cause is not something any industry needs. Id hate to see a big pest/disease get through the net.


And if you bothered to read my entire post, you would've noted I was replying to another poster who had called our quarantine laws idiotic. I worked air freight for 20 years, I know how vital our quarantine laws are and have seen them in action first hand in our warehouse. We all need to stay vigilant, as there are many people who couldn't give a rats arse about our laws, country and the relevant industries that rely on these laws being enforced, all for their own short term self indulgence.


I absolutely apologise Jupiter2 - I picked up the wrong post when I clicked the reply with quote button. I wasnt taking enough care in this instance.

I should have picked up downdata's post, not yours. Again, sorry.


All good qf2220, sorry if I seemed to jump down your throat. I don't understand though how some people can take these quarantine measures as a joke, or some sort of inconvenience to them personally. As we have said, they are there for very serious reasons and our economy relies on these people to do their job to the best of their abilities.
 
Jetstar315
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:16 am

I see QF have confirmed that orders for 45 of the A320NEOs have been converted to A321NEOs "for the Jetstar Group" - no mention of these operating for QF.
 
redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:17 am

I don't see why you would need a 3-4 connection in Perth. If it is all in the same building the qantas should be able to do outbound in 60-90 mins no problem. If it's inbound it will need a little more but probably still doable in 90 mins with a dedicated immigration and customs area in the qantas terminal.

Don't underestimate the demand from Perth itself. There are a lot of POMs here that travel back to the UK. There has been a lot of discussion around th water coolers in Perth about the potential of a non stop flight to London. It could be a winner - even a game changer ;-)
 
downdata
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:20 am

Oh please whats the overreaction. Have these "non native" bugs destroyed any other country's agricultural economy or made a dent in them? How large is ANZ's agricultral output compre to the world? Must be in the single decimal %s.

Technologies have advanced since 1900s. We have greenhouses, pesticides, GE seeds ...etc. why else would there be a trillion $ market for crop protection and animal health.
 
mh124
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:29 am

Agree redroo. Just wish it was cheaper . 25-45 m seems an impossible bridge to gap for a temporary structure.
 
jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:47 am

downdata wrote:
Oh please whats the overreaction. Have these "non native" bugs destroyed any other country's agricultural economy or made a dent in them? How large is ANZ's agricultral output compre to the world? Must be in the single decimal %s.

Doesn't mean it can't happen and the fact it hasn't happened here is testament to the good quarantine policies carried out in this country. How large the agricultural output is on the world scale is irrelevant, was is relevant is that agriculture to Australia and New Zealand is worth billions to the local economies, something not worth risking for an extra couple of minutes at the airport.

Technologies have advanced since 1900s. We have greenhouses, pesticides, GE seeds ...etc. why else would there be a trillion $ market for crop protection and animal health.


While technologies have improved as you've said, has the world found a way to eliminate malaria through these pesticides ? Has Australia found a way to combat cane toads, ironically brought in to save the sugar cane industry ? Does the world still see outbreaks of foot and mouth and the damage it causes to the local economies ? Has the rest of the world rid itself of rabies ? If the risks where as small as you seem to be making out, governments wouldn't be bothering with quarantine rules and spending the money that they do.

Pity you can't get to spend sometime with some Border Force staff and see first hand some of the crazy stuff they find.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:59 am

qf2220 wrote:
An767 wrote:
Seems strange that a certain member who spat the dummy over the new QF scheme has not been seen since ?


There are things more significant than the QF scheme that have caused regular posters to leave - I've not seen some (e.g. Ryanairguru) for quite some time, since perhaps the remodelling of the forum layout.


I'm not a fan of the new forum layout either & it's taken me a while to adjust.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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eta unknown
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:17 am

In today's travel and mainstream media... VA to start "rightsizing" their workforce... let the middle management culling begin!
 
luftaom
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:00 am

downdata - I'm not 100% sure that you aren't trolling us - but if you need an example of how one slip up can destroy and entire industry - look no further than the banana freckle in the NT. It wiped out the entire banana growing industry in the NT.

Or look at the damage done by Cucumber Green Mottle Mosaic Virus throughout Asia and the attempts to contain the outbreak in the NT.

This is serious stuff.
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downdata
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:06 am

jupiter2 wrote:
downdata wrote:
Oh please whats the overreaction. Have these "non native" bugs destroyed any other country's agricultural economy or made a dent in them? How large is ANZ's agricultral output compre to the world? Must be in the single decimal %s.

Doesn't mean it can't happen and the fact it hasn't happened here is testament to the good quarantine policies carried out in this country. How large the agricultural output is on the world scale is irrelevant, was is relevant is that agriculture to Australia and New Zealand is worth billions to the local economies, something not worth risking for an extra couple of minutes at the airport.

Technologies have advanced since 1900s. We have greenhouses, pesticides, GE seeds ...etc. why else would there be a trillion $ market for crop protection and animal health.


While technologies have improved as you've said, has the world found a way to eliminate malaria through these pesticides ? Has Australia found a way to combat cane toads, ironically brought in to save the sugar cane industry ? Does the world still see outbreaks of foot and mouth and the damage it causes to the local economies ? Has the rest of the world rid itself of rabies ? If the risks where as small as you seem to be making out, governments wouldn't be bothering with quarantine rules and spending the money that they do.

Pity you can't get to spend sometime with some Border Force staff and see first hand some of the crazy stuff they find.


Its all about cost and benefit. Of course there is a risk and it can measured in $, but dont pretend all this "biosecurity laws and regulations" and all the bureaucracy that comes with it does not have both a $ and opportunity costs.

Hey you run the risk of getting run over by a car every morning you leave your house. That does not keep you indoors for the rest of your life does it
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:10 am

downdata wrote:
Oh please whats the overreaction. Have these "non native" bugs destroyed any other country's agricultural economy or made a dent in them? How large is ANZ's agricultral output compre to the world? Must be in the single decimal %s.

Technologies have advanced since 1900s. We have greenhouses, pesticides, GE seeds ...etc. why else would there be a trillion $ market for crop protection and animal health.


It is not an overreaction, but a reaction to valid issues. All of the technologies you mention have a cost associated with them. The need to manage wheat crops for rust (which appeared in growing areas about 5 or so years ago) has increased the cost of production around 10-20%. This is either due to having to spray an additional chemical (which also has environmental costs) or chose lower yielding varieties that are rust resistant. That increase in production costs has had a significant impact on growers in the region.

As to the size of the ANZ agricultural output relative to the world - that is irrelevant. It is our livelihood and our regulations that we set to preserve our biosecurity.

And as to your last comment, you might have shares in these companies for the attitude you have for using their products. Why consume and spend when it is not needed to.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:55 pm

The previously planned SQ SIN-CGK-SIN flight has been converted to a nonstop SIN-SYD flight effective 7 Dec 16 to 31 Jan 17

SQ261 SIN2240 – 0930+1SYD 772 135
SQ262 SYD1100 – 1615SIN 772 246

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... perations/
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redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:24 pm

On the bio issue... Australia has a history of animals/plants being introduced to the environment and them going feral. Rabbits, foxes, cane toads, camels, prickly pear... A minor inconvenience and a bit of prevention at the airport is much more cost effective that the cure (and we haven't cured any of those problems!).
 
redroo
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:28 pm

@mh124 I dont see where the 25-40m price tag is going to be spent unless they are going to do a major overhaul of the old virgin terminal. There are so few pax that use that end of the building you could close off the Huson Coffee end and make that the international gate. You clear immigration there to board the aircraft. You then land at that gate (sorry cant remember the number) and proceed downstairs to the old virgin arrivals to bag collect. Customs can place themselves down there by locking the doors and forcing everyone to walk. You do have a problem with the JQ flights but it depends when the flights are landing.
 
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KruegerFlaps
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:33 am

downdata wrote:
Hey you run the risk of getting run over by a car every morning you leave your house. That does not keep you indoors for the rest of your life does it
No but in some states at least you are required to pay compulsory third party insurance when you register your vehicle.

If you travel to a yellow fever prone area, you are required to show a certificate of vaccination for very good reason, although you will not be refused entry if you lack one. Yellow fever can be fatal and available treatment is only symptomatic, aiming to reduce symptoms such as high fever, muscle pain and vomiting. About 15 to 25 per cent of those with yellow fever progress to the second stage also known as the ‘toxic’ stage, of which half die within 10 to 14 days after onset of illness. Visible bleeding, jaundice, kidney and liver failure can occur during the second stage. You might think it an acceptable risk to others if you come in carrying the disease. Most Australians would disagree.

Soil borne pathogens can also have a major impact on the environment and industry. Imported Phytophthora cinnamomi has had a deleterious effect in Western Australia, where over 20% of State Forest is infected, covering an area of over one million hectares. More than 40 per cent of Western Australian native plants are susceptible to the disease which is spread through the movement of soil and mud, especially by vehicles and footwear. Phytophthora disease also affects many agricultural crops and garden plants.

So which is more important? A few moments minor inconvenience to a passenger transiting an airport or the health of the wider community, our industries and our environment?
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
waoz1
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:53 am

"@mh124 I dont see where the 25-40m price tag is going to be spent unless they are going to do a major overhaul of the old virgin terminal."

should say old Ansett kinda gives the true meaning of how old it is :)
 
Sydscott
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:59 am

eta unknown wrote:
In today's travel and mainstream media... VA to start "rightsizing" their workforce... let the middle management culling begin!


They should start with the dead wood at the top and work their way down from there.
 
6thfreedom
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:30 am

redroo wrote:
I don't see why you would need a 3-4 connection in Perth. If it is all in the same building the qantas should be able to do outbound in 60-90 mins no problem. If it's inbound it will need a little more but probably still doable in 90 mins with a dedicated immigration and customs area in the qantas terminal.

Don't underestimate the demand from Perth itself. There are a lot of POMs here that travel back to the UK. There has been a lot of discussion around th water coolers in Perth about the potential of a non stop flight to London. It could be a winner - even a game changer ;-)


It's an interesting option - Imagine you actually used smart gate at your domestic point of departure, and by the time you arrived in Perth you just needed to be LAGS screened and reconfirmed. It could easily be done in 60-75 mins.

The question is also what schedule QF would operate to maximise connections, maintain slots and have a 'friendly' customer schedule.

Perth-London Options
PER 2000 - LHR 0600 or PER 2355 - LHR 1000

London - Perth flights
LHR 1230 - PER 1330 (captures last departure pre SYD curfew at 15.15)
LHR 2130 - PER 2230 (then connects with overnight flights)

which flights would be most popular?
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:39 am

If you ran PER2355-LHR1000, then turned around and did LHR1230-PER1330, could the 789 do a MEL/SYD run and back in the ~12 hours it has between 1330 and 2355? Ie get as much out of the frame as possible?
 
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LionelHutz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:45 am

qf2220 wrote:
If you ran PER2355-LHR1000, then turned around and did LHR1230-PER1330, could the 789 do a MEL/SYD run and back in the ~12 hours it has between 1330 and 2355? Ie get as much out of the frame as possible?


I think that schedule may be too tight, depending on your assumptions about departure/arrival times, turnaround times (dependent on whatever they do regarding terminals in Perth) and the impact of any delays.
Then there is the question of getting another slot at a desirable time at LHR?
As I've pointed out, without another 789 route going through PER or LHR allowing rotation of aircraft, it will require maintenance to be undertaken at PER or LHR, or re-positioning flights for maintenance.
Must look up 789 maintenance check requirements :geek:
 
jupiter2
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:55 am

LionelHutz wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
If you ran PER2355-LHR1000, then turned around and did LHR1230-PER1330, could the 789 do a MEL/SYD run and back in the ~12 hours it has between 1330 and 2355? Ie get as much out of the frame as possible?


I think that schedule may be too tight, depending on your assumptions about departure/arrival times, turnaround times (dependent on whatever they do regarding terminals in Perth) and the impact of any delays.
Then there is the question of getting another slot at a desirable time at LHR?
As I've pointed out, without another 789 route going through PER or LHR allowing rotation of aircraft, it will require maintenance to be undertaken at PER or LHR, or re-positioning flights for maintenance.
Must look up 789 maintenance check requirements :geek:


I would've assumed that the flight would originate in either SYD or MEL, which alleviates the need for positioning flights. Line maintenance wouldn't be an issue, especially in LHR, just contract it to BA and the 787 isn't a stranger to PER either.

As for slots and timings in LHR, a lot depends on whether this would be a 3rd LHR flight, or in place of one of the existing flights. If it was to be a replacement, then the existing timings they have give them options. Also, I'm pretty sure they still have 2 more arrival and departure slots which I believe are leased to BA at the moment. Wouldn't think it would be a major problem getting one of them back when they need it.

Of course this is all hypothetical at the moment, though I would like to see QF give it a go.
 
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LionelHutz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:21 am

jupiter2 wrote:

I would've assumed that the flight would originate in either SYD or MEL, which alleviates the need for positioning flights. Line maintenance wouldn't be an issue, especially in LHR, just contract it to BA and the 787 isn't a stranger to PER either.

As for slots and timings in LHR, a lot depends on whether this would be a 3rd LHR flight, or in place of one of the existing flights. If it was to be a replacement, then the existing timings they have give them options. Also, I'm pretty sure they still have 2 more arrival and departure slots which I believe are leased to BA at the moment. Wouldn't think it would be a major problem getting one of them back when they need it.

Of course this is all hypothetical at the moment, though I would like to see QF give it a go.


So if line maintenance isn't too much of an issue, nor slots at LHR, the main issue remains the terminal situation at Perth.
Maybe PER-LHR will be the first new route, it certainly has a lot of potential. I'm tipping as 744's VH-OEB and VH-OJM are probably retired around the same time SYD-SFO might go 789.
 
luftaom
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:36 am

I read somewhere (which is code for I probably read it on here or flyertalk... so please treat the accuracy on that basis) that Qantas holds a number of LHR slots (legacy of when they pulled back from the BKK/HKG-LHR flights) which are currently leased to EK - some of which have a lease term which is said to expire more or less when the 789 fleet will be of a sufficient number for PER-LHR flights to commence.

I do know for a fact (saw with my own eyes) that many years ago, Qantas acquired a couple of slot pairs at LHR and before they were able to start their long hauls - they got a UK based ACMI wet lease specialist to run LHR-MAN-LHR tags to their existing longhauls to keep the slots in use (and not lose them). I also know that back in 1991 Qantas used to run a 744 MAN-LHR-BKK-Australia. So I suspect that there are a number of slots owned by QF. The key questions are really:

(1) Are QF serious about this PER-LHR service? (Normally I am very circumspect about rumours - especially on here - the ability for a thread on here to whip up people being absolutely certain of something ... only for it then not to transpire. But... given the number of seemingly very factually based and well placed articles in the australian press (particularly aimed at the business traveller) I can't help but think that QF are strategically briefing certain journalists).
(2) If the QF LHR slots are leased, when do the leases expire (or will the lessee come to a deal for the early termination of the lease or indeed are there other slots available for lease)?
(3) Does the availability of slots dovetail with when the 789 fleet will be at a sufficient size to sustain a PER-LHR service (and do they have a tiny bit of redundancy to maintain a schedule like those mooted above).
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smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread Part 147

Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:28 am

luftaom wrote:
I read somewhere (which is code for I probably read it on here or flyertalk... so please treat the accuracy on that basis) that Qantas holds a number of LHR slots (legacy of when they pulled back from the BKK/HKG-LHR flights) which are currently leased to EK - some of which have a lease term which is said to expire more or less when the 789 fleet will be of a sufficient number for PER-LHR flights to commence.

I do know for a fact (saw with my own eyes) that many years ago, Qantas acquired a couple of slot pairs at LHR and before they were able to start their long hauls - they got a UK based ACMI wet lease specialist to run LHR-MAN-LHR tags to their existing longhauls to keep the slots in use (and not lose them). I also know that back in 1991 Qantas used to run a 744 MAN-LHR-BKK-Australia. So I suspect that there are a number of slots owned by QF. The key questions are really:

(1) Are QF serious about this PER-LHR service? (Normally I am very circumspect about rumours - especially on here - the ability for a thread on here to whip up people being absolutely certain of something ... only for it then not to transpire. But... given the number of seemingly very factually based and well placed articles in the australian press (particularly aimed at the business traveller) I can't help but think that QF are strategically briefing certain journalists).
(2) If the QF LHR slots are leased, when do the leases expire (or will the lessee come to a deal for the early termination of the lease or indeed are there other slots available for lease)?
(3) Does the availability of slots dovetail with when the 789 fleet will be at a sufficient size to sustain a PER-LHR service (and do they have a tiny bit of redundancy to maintain a schedule like those mooted above).


I confess i maybe a conspiracy theorists but - I wasn't overly impressed with the QF 789 seat reveal, and I feel it's two fold - there is a delay with the W seats, not uncommon with the testing and certification of new seats, and there is a delay with the new routes. I'd say PER-LHR negotiations are dragging on more than QF expected, and some issue with DFW. That AA 77W parked for a day in Sydney for publicity on the same day, with no real open even doesn't make sense - not much publicity. I'm sure we'll know more in the coming months. But the amount of teasing in the news is interesting.

On a seperate note - do we know where the extra 788 JQ capacity is being moved to after MEL-NRT is cancelled?

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