Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
PATristar wrote:Appears that UA ordered the 24 E-175 from the former Republic cancelled order.
http://economia.estadao.com.br/noticias ... 0000088587
Rajahdhani wrote:PATristar wrote:Appears that UA ordered the 24 E-175 from the former Republic cancelled order.
http://economia.estadao.com.br/noticias ... 0000088587
So, this is why the 737-700 was delayed? Either way, good move for UA.
AV8AJET wrote:I wonder who will fly them, it would be nice to see these at ExpressJet.
KCaviator wrote:The aircraft are 100% going to Republic, it's as simple as that. Republic cancelled the order because it was almost impossible (probably completely impossible) to find financing for these aircraft while in bankruptcy. That's where United comes into play. Republic and United structured a deal in which United will now buy and own the aircraft, and then lease them to Republic.
Here is an excerpt from Prime Clerk for a motion filed yesterday in court:
"United in turn has agreed to amend the United Express Agreement to lease [number redacted] of the purchased E175s to Republic for deployment under the United Express Agreement, thereby allowing the Debtors to avoid obtaining capital to fund their own acquisition of the aircraft while still increasing their revenues under the United Express Agreement. The [number redacted] aircraft are expected to be delivered to Republic between April 2017 and September 2017."
Although the specific number of aircraft are redacted in the filing, it is widely assumed that the number is the full 24.
gatibosgru wrote:Why not E2s? Slot availability?
Rajahdhani wrote:PATristar wrote:Appears that UA ordered the 24 E-175 from the former Republic cancelled order.
http://economia.estadao.com.br/noticias ... 0000088587
So, this is why the 737-700 was delayed? Either way, good move for UA.
Here's to hoping that the C-Series still sees a UA order!
codc10 wrote:These are 24 E75s originally ordered by RAH to be operated on the UAX contract. It now becomes more cost-effective for United to acquire them then lease back to RAH to operate for UAX.
Keep an eye on those 'other' orders held by RAH, too.
codc10 wrote:These are 24 E75s originally ordered by RAH to be operated on the UAX contract. It now becomes more cost-effective for United to acquire them then lease back to RAH to operate for UAX.
Keep an eye on those 'other' orders held by RAH, too.
INFINITI329 wrote:codc10 wrote:These are 24 E75s originally ordered by RAH to be operated on the UAX contract. It now becomes more cost-effective for United to acquire them then lease back to RAH to operate for UAX.
Keep an eye on those 'other' orders held by RAH, too.
Im not sure how this becomes cost-effective for United. Republic yes as they don't have to deal with the costs of actually owing the 24 airplanes.
caleb1 wrote:codc10 wrote:These are 24 E75s originally ordered by RAH to be operated on the UAX contract. It now becomes more cost-effective for United to acquire them then lease back to RAH to operate for UAX.
Keep an eye on those 'other' orders held by RAH, too.
By those "other orders", do you mean the C Series order from RAH? Has that order been cancelled, or is it still on the table? If it is still viable, perhaps UAL will take over?
TWA772LR wrote:This reminds me of the time Expressjet had 69 outstanding ERJs that were sitting idle that were owned by CO, and leased to Express. CO told them to use them or lose them, thus ExpressJet started their branded ops.
With RAH in bankruptcy, could branded ops be an option under reorganization if any planes sit idle?
gatibosgru wrote:Why not E2s? Slot availability?
DFW789ER wrote:Rajahdhani wrote:PATristar wrote:Appears that UA ordered the 24 E-175 from the former Republic cancelled order.
http://economia.estadao.com.br/noticias ... 0000088587
So, this is why the 737-700 was delayed? Either way, good move for UA.
Here's to hoping that the C-Series still sees a UA order!
There may be a thread but haven't seen it. ATW News last night had a story that most of the -700 orders were converted to the -800 MAX and delivery delayed until 2018 and beyond.
Revelation wrote:DFW789ER wrote:Rajahdhani wrote:
So, this is why the 737-700 was delayed? Either way, good move for UA.
Here's to hoping that the C-Series still sees a UA order!
There may be a thread but haven't seen it. ATW News last night had a story that most of the -700 orders were converted to the -800 MAX and delivery delayed until 2018 and beyond.
There is no -800 MAX, there is a MAX-8 instead.
adamblang wrote:Wild speculation: United just deferred 737-700s, converting them to larger aircraft. That re-opens a gap for small mainline aircraft. Republic's in court tomorrow to talk about small mainline aircraft. United's already taken over one Republic aircraft order. Maybe they take over their CSeries order, too?
TWA772LR wrote:This reminds me of the time Expressjet had 69 outstanding ERJs that were sitting idle that were owned by CO, and leased to Express. CO told them to use them or lose them, thus ExpressJet started their branded ops.
Polot wrote:TWA772LR wrote:This reminds me of the time Expressjet had 69 outstanding ERJs that were sitting idle that were owned by CO, and leased to Express. CO told them to use them or lose them, thus ExpressJet started their branded ops.
No, Expressjet started branded ops because CO pulled a lot of their flying (something like 60+ aircraft) as CO were trying to reduce their number of 50 seaters when fuel starting skyrocketing, leaving Expressjet with a glut of aircraft. Per their agreement with CO Expressjet could not fly to any CO hub except as COEx and if they offered a lower rate to another airline for flying they had to also then offer the same rate to CO. Rather than parking and downsizing the company they decided to try their ill fated branded exercise instead.
In these capacity agreements it is the mainline company telling the regional airline how to use their planes. If they were CO owned planes (which I do not believe they were) if CO wants them used then they would be used as CO tells them to, they would not be idle unless CO purposely pulls flying (which they did). If they had more aircraft than the flying required CO would not care if it is the CO owned ones parked as long as Expressjet continues to make the lease payments and operates what they are told to operate.
B737900ER wrote:Expressjet had plans to start branded ops in 2004. Well before the fuel spike. CO had owned all expressjet operated aircraft. The plan for branded ops was entirely an expressjet idea, because management got it in their head that they had to diversify, and became increasingly paranoid about becoming reliant on CO as their only revenue stream. CO only pulled the aircraft because of expressjet, and those were the aircraft that expressjet used to fly their branded ops, leasing them from CO.
Polot wrote:B737900ER wrote:Expressjet had plans to start branded ops in 2004. Well before the fuel spike. CO had owned all expressjet operated aircraft. The plan for branded ops was entirely an expressjet idea, because management got it in their head that they had to diversify, and became increasingly paranoid about becoming reliant on CO as their only revenue stream. CO only pulled the aircraft because of expressjet, and those were the aircraft that expressjet used to fly their branded ops, leasing them from CO.
Yes, it was something they had been considering for awhile (also remember ExpressJet Europe? Lol) but the impetus for starting the branded ops was CO reducing flying, not Expressjet having spare aircraft that they were told to "use or lose" by CO.
flight152 wrote:Only if Republic can staff them, which is always the big question.
TWA772LR wrote:This reminds me of the time Expressjet had 69 outstanding ERJs that were sitting idle that were owned by CO, and leased to Express. CO told them to use them or lose them, thus ExpressJet started their branded ops.
Polot wrote:If they were CO owned planes (which I do not believe they were)
B737900ER wrote:If cooler heads prevailed a deal could have been worked out. In the end CO didn't reduce overall regional flying by a significant enough margin to hurt expressjet that much. At least not as much as going independent hurt them.
SFOtoORD wrote:adamblang wrote:Wild speculation: United just deferred 737-700s, converting them to larger aircraft. That re-opens a gap for small mainline aircraft. Republic's in court tomorrow to talk about small mainline aircraft. United's already taken over one Republic aircraft order. Maybe they take over their CSeries order, too?
Good call. If the price is right it would be a good way to resolve that order.
miaskies wrote:YX to open IAH base, word is outstay tuned for more info.
INFINITI329 wrote:[That would mean UA pulled major okie doke on Boeing. UA got those initial frames at yard sale prices. The whole point of those prices where to keep the United globe off of the tail of Cseries Jets. Like others I eluded to this now opens up a seating gap in UAs fleet. So BBD has new life in my opinon
jetblastdubai wrote:. Boeing has/will have up to 20 ex-AC E190s I'm sure they'd like to shed.
jetblastdubai wrote:*UA/UAX have extensive experience with the EMB product. (reduced learning curve and consistent passenger experience)
jetblastdubai wrote:*E190 has 20,000lb lower MTOW resulting in slightly lower landing fees for the same pax load (every little bit helps)
Polot wrote:jetblastdubai wrote:. Boeing has/will have up to 20 ex-AC E190s I'm sure they'd like to shed.
No they don't.
Delta is still taking them, even though they will not be operating the aircraft. I do not know if DL has customers lined up for all the planes yet but they are (will be) Delta's, not Boeing's, responsibility now.
jetblastdubai wrote:AC also has an additional 25 E190s that will be replaced as their first 25 C-Series join the fleet in late 2019.
http://aircanada.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=984
Deliveries are scheduled to begin in late 2019 and extend to 2022. The first 25 aircraft on delivery will replace Air Canada's existing mainline fleet of Embraer E190 aircraft, with the incremental aircraft supporting Air Canada's hub and network growth, creating one of the world's youngest, most fuel efficient airline fleets.
As part of Air Canada's order, Boeing will purchase up to 20 of the airline's fleet of 45 Embraer E190s, which will be replaced with larger leased planes until the new 737 aircraft are delivered. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-can ... -1.2460560
dc10lover wrote:Are there options for more besides the 24?
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/04/16/embraer-bags-a-long-awaited-order.aspx
Entering the year, Embraer probably needed 100 to 150 more orders for first-generation jets to keep production steady as E2 jet production ramps up between now and 2020. Alaska's order -(sic, of 30 aircraft)- Embraer's first major aircraft deal of 2016 -- gets Embraer a long way toward that goal. The company was able to fill some of its remaining 2017 delivery slots while also securing numerous orders for 2018, when it will still be delivering mainly first-generation jets.
INFINITI329 wrote:jetblastdubai wrote:*UA/UAX have extensive experience with the EMB product. (reduced learning curve and consistent passenger experience)
Actually they do not ,UA neither maintains or operates the type, their UAX carriers do. UA just owns alot of the planes. The only experience they with have with Embraer is signing the checks
antoniemey wrote:INFINITI329 wrote:jetblastdubai wrote:*UA/UAX have extensive experience with the EMB product. (reduced learning curve and consistent passenger experience)
Actually they do not ,UA neither maintains or operates the type, their UAX carriers do. UA just owns alot of the planes. The only experience they with have with Embraer is signing the checks
UA's customer service and ramp personnel are already familiar with the type. That would reduce training time and thus costs, though not as much as maintenance and pilot familiarity.