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JannEejit
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Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:43 pm

As of August 2017, Loganair return to being 'own branded' as their Flybe franchise ends. This will see the return of a Loganair livery, not seen since the late 90's.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-38055208
 
tonystan
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:02 pm

Could BA a jump back in and regain a hold on the Highlands and Islands network?
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:15 pm

tonystan wrote:
Could BA a jump back in and regain a hold on the Highlands and Islands network?

Good question, although I don't think BA have expressed any interest in going down the franchise partner route again. What's interesting is that Loganair as an company has recently merged with Business Air/Bmi Regional whilst they also absorbed Suckling Airways a few years ago. I wonder if it's time for a pan-group mass rebranding ? Personally I'd love to see the traditional red, white and black Loganair identity return to the skies.
 
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GCT64
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:26 pm

JannEejit wrote:
Personally I'd love to see the traditional red, white and black Loganair identity return to the skies.


It already is, to a degree:
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
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vhtje
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:34 pm

tonystan wrote:
Could BA a jump back in and regain a hold on the Highlands and Islands network?


Why would BA do that? All BA seem to want to do these days is fly rich businessmen from London to various points the United States. BA seem to have zero interest in anything outside of the M25.

In all seriousness now, I cannot see BA doing this, as much as you and I and our ilk might like to see it.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
by738
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:37 pm

BA are interested in drawing pax into London via connections and so I dont see why its outwith the realms of possibility however unlikely. They will be very familiar with accounting data...
 
sandyb123
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:50 pm

It is still possible to book Logainair flights with BA so the revenue stream is still there (both ways). I wouldn't be surprised if Flybe remain codeshare partners.

A lot of travel to Loganair's destinations is essential travel so it doesn't rely on the marketing machine to fill planes.

Loganair also do some regional flying for Flybe but this is effectively a charter/ ACMI so no reason that can't continue after the end of the franchise.

Sandyb123
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:57 pm

GCT64 wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
Personally I'd love to see the traditional red, white and black Loganair identity return to the skies.


It already is, to a degree:


Yes indeed, saw that one recently on the ramp at Kirkwall amongst it's more colourful Flybe liveried cousins. I believe Loganair are going for a whole new look (TBA) and they're saying it will be "very Scottish". I'm half thinking they'll just copy the blue saltire style already on the Viking Twin Otters they operate on PSO routes for the Scottish Goverrment.
 
ZuluTime
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:02 pm

The new livery is already on the news release on the Loganair website!

Check under "Press Office" and the top article.
 
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Polot
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:11 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
The new livery is already on the news release on the Loganair website!

Check under "Press Office" and the top article.


For those who don't feel like going through all that trouble:

Image

http://www.loganair.co.uk/loganair/pres ... -its-wings
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:13 pm

I was surprised when BA originally terminated the Loganair franchise agreement. It was at the same time that GB Airways was sold to easyJet and having lost the GB Airways franchise agreement, BA also decided to terminate the Loganair agreement, stating that the UK franchise agreements had outlived their purpose.

I can't see what BA to lose from a Loganair franchise. It extends its brand presence and I can't imagine it being particularly onerous to operate.

BA has in recent years returned to a lot of markets it had previously withdrawn from so I wouldn't rule out a renewal of the Loganair franchise.
 
sandyb123
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:15 pm

Image

Christ looks like one of the BA World Tails...

Image

Will wait to see it in the flesh but not a fan of the mock-up. Not that it matters.

Sandyb123
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:22 pm

ZuluTime wrote:
The new livery is already on the news release on the Loganair website!

Check under "Press Office" and the top article.


Wow, hadn't spotted that, not quite what I was expecting to be honest...
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:25 pm

sandyb123 wrote:
Image

Christ looks like one of the BA World Tails...

Image

Will wait to see it in the flesh but not a fan of the mock-up. Not that it matters.

Sandyb123


Kind of going back to the start of the BA franchise....

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British-Airways-%28Loganair%29/Saab-340B/67758/L?qsp=eJwljT0OgzAMhe/imSVCtApbuUAZegHLcSESJZHjoQhxd2LYnv29nx0orcp//WyZoYfCKDRDAxkFfwX6HTAKCX51wBLptjnnurYxssTVYm3nu2dNBVQe56RpEswzh4qc976SkkSHrd5meRFx1orv/1sCiyEudE1PtlEFy3hpaB9WHkte0DoIJcBxnB/tPP0%3D
 
wezgulf3
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:45 pm

I was really hoping for a super modern twist on the loganair Scheme of the 80's but that mock is a hidious 80's style throw back.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:12 am

wezgulf3 wrote:
I was really hoping for a super modern twist on the loganair Scheme of the 80's but that mock is a hidious 80's style throw back.


I tend to agree, it's possibly the hideous 80's design software doing it though...
 
Luftymatt
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:38 am

Polot wrote:
ZuluTime wrote:
The new livery is already on the news release on the Loganair website!

Check under "Press Office" and the top article.


For those who don't feel like going through all that trouble:

Image

http://www.loganair.co.uk/loganair/pres ... -its-wings


I like the Tartan on the tail! I'm also glad that they've kept the same titles, just made them billboard style, which really looks good in my opinion. I'm not too sure on the red engine cowlings or the black on the belly though, however as has been said it may just be the rendering and could very well look a lot better in the metal.

I hope the cabin crew go back to the Tartan uniforms, similar to the ones they used to have before Loganair became a franchise carrier. :smile:
chase the sun
 
Flyingabout
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:43 am

BA franchise agreements seem really haphazard at the best of times. I still can't figure out why there are some Dorniers flying out of Denmark in the BA scheme...
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:32 am

Luftymatt wrote:

I like the Tartan on the tail! I'm also glad that they've kept the same titles, just made them billboard style, which really looks good in my opinion. I'm not too sure on the red engine cowlings or the black on the belly though, however as has been said it may just be the rendering and could very well look a lot better in the metal.

I hope the cabin crew go back to the Tartan uniforms, similar to the ones they used to have before Loganair became a franchise carrier. :smile:


I hope they will find a way to use several different tartan designs/colors and not just a single one. I doubt it will increase cost much, but it will mean much to major sub-populations of their customers. Rather a JetBlue concept specific to Scotland.
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:32 pm

I believe that tartan is the Loganair tartan, so I don't think there will be more than one design.
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skipness1E
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:44 pm

It's a clear riff of the Benyhone / Mountain of the Birds BA Utopia livery that the real G-LGNA actually carried under the BA franchise.
It's fundamentally the 1997 scheme with the Loganair black belly replacing the BA blue and red engines, with added billboard titles.
 
RacheyFlies
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:29 pm

But I found out a city or a town that Flybe used to fly on a twin otter and will they return it to Loganair?

I was in Scotland last week and yes, I flew to and from Barra and it's still in Flybe Livery but flying as Loganair. So maybe all Flybe routes that was flown by Loganair would remain flying without other airline brands, maybe next could be Jet2.
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BobPatterson
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:54 pm

skipness1E wrote:
It's a clear riff of the Benyhone / Mountain of the Birds BA Utopia livery that the real G-LGNA actually carried under the BA franchise.
It's fundamentally the 1997 scheme with the Loganair black belly replacing the BA blue and red engines, with added billboard titles.


I suppose it depends on how much design latitude you permit under the concept of "clear riff". To my eye the Logonair publicity photo shows a very different "tartan" design from what was used by BA under the name "Benyhone". There were, in fact, at least two different patterns applied to BA tails under the wonderfully mismanaged Utopia World Art series of the almost forgotten BA "rebranding" program.

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British- ... /2245891/L

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British- ... /2035764/L

Sunil Gupta at Lockon Aviation displays the original BA publicity page for Peter MacDonald's Benyhome design:

http://lockonaviation.net/html/showphot ... tartan.jpg
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JannEejit
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:29 pm

RacheyFlies wrote:
But I found out a city or a town that Flybe used to fly on a twin otter and will they return it to Loganair?

I was in Scotland last week and yes, I flew to and from Barra and it's still in Flybe Livery but flying as Loganair. So maybe all Flybe routes that was flown by Loganair would remain flying without other airline brands, maybe next could be Jet2.


Flybe don't own or operate any Twin Otters. Loganair owned two, both of which were painted in Flybe livery as part of the franchise deal, one of which left the fleet last year and the other retained as 'back up' to the two brand new Saltire liveried Viking Twin Otters that are operated by Loganair on behalf of the Scottish Government who bought them to operate Scottish Public Service Obligation (PSO) routes.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:21 am

skipness1E wrote:
It's a clear riff of the Benyhone / Mountain of the Birds BA Utopia livery that the real G-LGNA actually carried under the BA franchise.
It's fundamentally the 1997 scheme with the Loganair black belly replacing the BA blue and red engines, with added billboard titles.

The tartan is called "Loganair" and was registered in 1988, so whilst the livery styling may be influenced by the 1997 World Tails, this is actually Loganair using their own corporate tartan on the aircraft tail. Wouldn't be surprised if it is used some way in the crew uniforms too.

Image
https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=2190


Benyhone/Mountain of the Birds is also registered on the World Tartan Register website: -

Image
https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=4848


It was pointed out earlier that Lognair is now part of the same organisation that owns Business Air and BMI Regional. Business Air, as an independent airline, also had a tartan. I wonder if that could be used by the current Business Air?

Image
https://www.tartanregister.gov.uk/tartanDetails.aspx?ref=454
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BobPatterson
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:12 am

FlyCaledonian wrote:
The tartan is called "Loganair" and was registered in 1988, so whilst the livery styling may be influenced by the 1997 World Tails, this is actually Loganair using their own corporate tartan on the aircraft tail. Wouldn't be surprised if it is used some way in the crew uniforms too.

Benyhone/Mountain of the Birds is also registered on the World Tartan Register website: -

It was pointed out earlier that Loganair is now part of the same organisation that owns Business Air and BMI Regional. Business Air, as an independent airline, also had a tartan. I wonder if that could be used by the current Business Air?


Thank you for providing the links to the World Tartan Register. What an amazing resource!

I see that they require the submittal of a digital image of the pattern as well as a sample of the woven cloth. I imagine that the two will probably never be quite equal in all respects.

I also noticed that the pattern in the registered digital image of British Airways' "Benyhone" doesn't match the woven product displayed on the BA promotional page for Benyhone/Mountain of the Birds (link given above). And what ended up on the tails of aircraft was an even further departure from the original pattern. Perhaps these differences are only to be expected as a design goes through the very different processes of weaving, printing and silk screening at very different scales.
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
Luftymatt
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:32 pm

It's fundamentally the 1997 scheme with the Loganair black belly replacing the BA blue and red engines, with added billboard titles.[/quote]
The tartan is called "Loganair" and was registered in 1988, so whilst the livery styling may be influenced by the 1997 World Tails, this is actually Loganair using their own corporate tartan on the aircraft tail. Wouldn't be surprised if it is used some way in the crew uniforms too.
Interesting, thank you for that. I hope you're right about the uniforms, I remember the Loganair tartan uniforms looking very smart! As did the Caledonian ones too.
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:24 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
I also noticed that the pattern in the registered digital image of British Airways' "Benyhone" doesn't match the woven product displayed on the BA promotional page for Benyhone/Mountain of the Birds (link given above). And what ended up on the tails of aircraft was an even further departure from the original pattern. Perhaps these differences are only to be expected as a design goes through the very different processes of weaving, printing and silk screening at very different scales.

I'd disagree. The link to the BA promotional page has an image that isn't the best quality. This link - http://www.bapipeband.com/about-us/our-tartan/ - gives more information and clearly links the tartan to the tails and Tartan Register. The thing with the World Tails is that the tail took a snapshot from the overall original, which gave some individuality to each tail. In the case of the tartan they really zoomed in for the image on the tail and effectively each distinct line is a thread. If you look at the image I posted from the World Tartan Register and look at one of the dark blue squares, then move your eyes to the band below with light blue and red diagonal stripes - If you examine that pattern you can see that is the area where the snapshot was effectively taken for the image on the tail.
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oldannyboy
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:03 pm

vhtje wrote:
tonystan wrote:
Could BA a jump back in and regain a hold on the Highlands and Islands network?


Why would BA do that? All BA seem to want to do these days is fly rich businessmen from London to various points the United States. BA seem to have zero interest in anything outside of the M25.

Absolutely! Could not agree more! London Airways -as such- have a very "intra-M25" centric mentality. :-)
 
tomkell92
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:11 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
Why would BA do that? All BA seem to want to do these days is fly rich businessmen from London to various points the United States. BA seem to have zero interest in anything outside of the M25.


Perhaps an opportunity for BA CityFlyer?
They already serve links to London from Glasgow and Edinburgh, as well as the odd charter from these too.
If they linked the highlands to these services, then it would feed more traffic to London and also could offer more feed for the charter flights too.
Tom
 
tonystan
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:27 pm

tomkell92 wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
Why would BA do that? All BA seem to want to do these days is fly rich businessmen from London to various points the United States. BA seem to have zero interest in anything outside of the M25.


Perhaps an opportunity for BA CityFlyer?
They already serve links to London from Glasgow and Edinburgh, as well as the odd charter from these too.
If they linked the highlands to these services, then it would feed more traffic to London and also could offer more feed for the charter flights too.


Indeed cityflyer actually have their main crew base up in Scotland as well as a lot of its admin.

This could be a cosy little relationship and the added benefit of feed to main lines LHR a services.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
vv701
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Re: Flybe and Loganair to end franchise agreement.

Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:26 pm

GCT64 wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
Personally I'd love to see the traditional red, white and black Loganair identity return to the skies.


It already is, to a degree:


This Saab 340 together with G-GNTF are freighters. Both have been based at INV. At night time they have been dedicated to operating mail flights between INV and EDI and EMA. During the day they have been dedicated to mail flights between INV and BEB (Benbecula) and SYY (Stornoway), Note the small 'Royal Mail' titles / logo aft of the door. They are not part of the current Flybe franchise operation.

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