Link to part 183 viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1345401&start=250

mariner wrote:

According to that interesting blog "3rd Level", about the small fry airlines in NZ, Sounds Air has acquired another Pilatus PC 12, for a total of five in the fleet:

http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.co.nz/2016/1 ... s-air.html

Another PC12 for Sounds Air

Apparently, it arrived from SYD last night (21 November). I haven't seen anything about it anywhere else, and I'm hoping it's correct.

There's also an article in Stuff claiming that Sounds is running 6 flights a day to Kaikoura.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8667753 ... a--tourism

"Sounds Air has begun running up to six flights a day into and out of Kaikoura, carrying 10 passengers a time.

Hmmmm? According to the Sounds website it is 5 flights a week! LOL. Maybe they're planning to boost Kaikoura with the new aircraft, but ti seems like a heck of a jump.

mariner

The new PC12 is in Sounds Air livery and arrived with its old VH rego still. Sounds Air is currently flying to Kaikoura with Cessna Caravans only due to the freight options with a BHE - Kaikoura - CHC - Kaikoura - BHE routing twice daily Monday - Friday for a 3 week trial. Word is Sounds Air are also looking at a WLG - Kaikoura - WLG route

I'll be flying NZ7 in FEB 2017.
I work in the SF Bay area on regular approach path to SFO ( Foster City) and have noticed the once daily Air New Zealand flights have not been daily anymore.
Have Air NZ been dropping flights and transferring passengers to the newish UA 916?
Will I be switched to a United flight?
Anyone have any inside information regarding this?

CHEERS

The NZ schedule for February shows 7x weekly as does the UA schedule. The NZ schedule shows weekly 5X for the 77W and 2X for the 77E .Maybe they fly a different approach path into SFO some days.

777ER wrote:

The new PC12 is in Sounds Air livery and arrived with its old VH rego still. Sounds Air is currently flying to Kaikoura with Cessna Caravans only due to the freight options with a BHE - Kaikoura - CHC - Kaikoura - BHE routing twice daily Monday - Friday for a 3 week trial. Word is Sounds Air are also looking at a WLG - Kaikoura - WLG route

Thanks, all good stuff.

I think its a very interesting situation because SH1 - the road to Kaikoura - is likely to be closed for a long, long time, even the inland road that they're trying to fix is problematic, and the wharf has problems for arrival by sea. Effectively, the only way in or out (for civilians at least) is by air and high tourist season is coming. So on the face of it Sounds could be needed for a lot longer than three weeks.

I think it's terrific that Sounds has occupied this essential space, and given the amount of government people arriving in Kaiikoura, a WLG-KBZ route might make a deal of sense. According to Newshub, they're already flown from WLG in a charter arrangement. I guess the arrival of the new PC 12 will freeing up some air time on the Caravans.

This whole story of Kaikoura generally and the role of Sounds in the recovery, scratches my itch. It's an important service for the community and I assume it's good for Sounds.

mariner

Kiwijason wrote:

I'll be flying NZ7 in FEB 2017.
I work in the SF Bay area on regular approach path to SFO ( Foster City) and have noticed the once daily Air New Zealand flights have not been daily anymore.
Have Air NZ been dropping flights and transferring passengers to the newish UA 916?
Will I be switched to a United flight?
Anyone have any inside information regarding this?

CHEERS

NZ8 / NZ7 is Mo We Fr Sa Su until 13 Dec 2016. The schedule is then daily but from past experience this can change in the low season.
The UA schedule shows a combination of 4 x 789 and 3 x 788 from 02 Jul 2017.

PA515

There are currently three 744s in NZ airspace, two QF and one SQ

Re SFO: NZ have been nimble with regard to adjustment of SFO frequencies for some time. Part of their success strategy. You'll see the same with YVR and note that SFO will be back to daily for the peak season, and daily through the northern hemisphere Summer.

That's the thing though, most years they reduce SFO a little in the lowest times of the year, OCT-NOV and April-June particularly. More so probably with the UA deal now to. Maybe next year IAH will stay daily at the expense of SFO?

YVR operates daily in DEC-JAN, most of the year it's 4-5 weekly but may still drop back as low as 3 weekly briefly. I hear the 789 is needed here, I'm not sure which configuration would be best.

So what's changes to Eagle Airways after they end their contract with Air NZ? Was their plane still active or already solded.

Eagle Air has disbanded. No longer exists. The Fleet has been divided up all over the place, some in Africa, some in Asia, some in South America/Caribbean

RacheyFlies wrote:

So what's changes to Eagle Airways after they end their contract with Air NZ? Was their plane still active or already solded.

Eagle was a subsidary of NZ, they would them up, sold off the fleet and transferred the staff or let them go.

[quote="ZK-NBT"]. I hear the 789 is needed here, I'm not sure which configuration would be best]

I think the adjustments to frequency over different periods of the year virtually guarantees typical North American load factors which means the high density version of the 789. But does this have sufficient premium seating for the YVR market? The proposed higher premium seating version could work at an increased frequency of 1 or 2 additional flights a week. But I think this plane is more likely to be seen on a new US route , perhaps ORD.

sunrisevalley wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

. I hear the 789 is needed here, I'm not sure which configuration would be best]

I think the adjustments to frequency over different periods of the year virtually guarantees typical North American load factors which means the high density version of the 789. But does this have sufficient premium seating for the YVR market? The proposed higher premium seating version could work at an increased frequency of 1 or 2 additional flights a week. But I think this plane is more likely to be seen on a new US route , perhaps ORD.

They do need the 789 on the route to improve frequency particularly over the shoulder season.
Through the grapevine I have heard that NZ only makes money on the route DEC-JAN while breaking even in FEB and maybe MAR with the rest of the year being loss making. Overall it is currently neutral (which is fine as it feeds into the rest of the network). Part of the reason why it makes a loss during the shoulder-low season is that they have added crew costs from longer slip times in YVR (3-4x a week means 2 night slips instead of 1). The 77E also uses a lot more fuel than a 789 would especially since it is quite a long flight (problem being that the current 789 config isn't great for longer flights). I would expect them to use the new NA config for this route.

I don't buy it, that the company would run a service that loses money for 2/3 of the year. If they do, the profits in Dec - Jan must be incredible.

Kiwinlondon

I don't buy it, that the company would run a service that loses money for 2/3 of the year. If they do, the profits in Dec - Jan must be incredible.

Kiwinlondon

Kiwinlondon wrote:

I don't buy it, that the company would run a service that loses money for 2/3 of the year. If they do, the profits in Dec - Jan must be incredible.

Kiwinlondon

If you think about it the service for 2/3 of the year is only 3x per week so the losses wouldn't be that great and they might not be large losses anyway - just saying that they are still negative.

Yes the profits in Dec-Jan would be. Most of that date range the flights are completely full and haven't been sold as sale fares since NZ pretty much embargoes Dec 17 - Jan 17 from ANY airfare sales. That means that the cheapest AKL-YVR return you can buy during those dates is around $2300 (compare that to LAX which is around $1600). They also don't tend to have the cheapest fare class in Premium and Business available so all those fares are big bucks!

Also as mentioned even when that service is losing money it is still feeding other services (domestic NZ flights, trans-Tasman flights, along with utilizing aircraft that might otherwise be sitting around earning nothing and crew still get paid if they are sitting at home or flying).

ZK-OKQ, the black 77W, hasn't been to LHR for more than a week. I thought that NZ would want it on NZ1/2 as much as possible.

LamboAston wrote:

ZK-OKQ, the black 77W, hasn't been to LHR for more than a week. I thought that NZ would want it on NZ1/2 as much as possible.

Why? There's 7 77W's they could send each one once a week if they wanted, it's just the rotation I'm guessing it's been doing LAX/SFO with MEL/SYD/BNE in between which is normal.

ZK-NBT wrote:

LamboAston wrote:

ZK-OKQ, the black 77W, hasn't been to LHR for more than a week. I thought that NZ would want it on NZ1/2 as much as possible.

Why? There's 7 77W's they could send each one once a week if they wanted, it's just the rotation I'm guessing it's been doing LAX/SFO with MEL/SYD/BNE in between which is normal.

It is their flagship aircraft, so I thought they would want it on their flagship route.

LamboAston wrote:

It is their flagship aircraft, so I thought they would want it on their flagship route.

But you could argue that ZK-NZE (Black 789) was there flagship aircraft.

It doesn't make sense to limit one aircraft to AKL-LAX-LHR-LAX-AKL which takes around 3 days to complete.

LamboAston wrote:

ZK-NBT wrote:

LamboAston wrote:

ZK-OKQ, the black 77W, hasn't been to LHR for more than a week. I thought that NZ would want it on NZ1/2 as much as possible.

Why? There's 7 77W's they could send each one once a week if they wanted, it's just the rotation I'm guessing it's been doing LAX/SFO with MEL/SYD/BNE in between which is normal.

It is their flagship aircraft, so I thought they would want it on their flagship route.

It maybe the flagship aircraft but it's no different to the other 6 77W's in the fleet other than the colour, all have the same configuration so fly all the 77W routes which gives a lot more flexablity. Sure it's the flagship aircraft and there are times when they will make sure it's in position to do an inaugural service, 789 ZK-NZE the black one did the first flight back to KIX and then the first 789 flight to EZE a few days later, while OKQ carried the All Blacks to EZE when that route was a Scheduled 772 due to the larger premium cabin on the 77W.

Hi all,

In recent months Emirates have deployed the A380 on SYD-CHC services, and introduced a non-stop service between DXB and AKL. This prompts me to speculate as to whether a non-stop DXB-CHC service would be viable, whether with an A380 or a 777-200LR.

My assumption is that the yields on a DXB-CHC service wouldn't be sufficient to justify a non-stop service, given the costs that come with ultra long haul flying. That said, considering the overall passenger volumes between Christchurch and Europe (including on SQ, NZ via AKL and its transit points, QF via Australia, CZ and EK), this is a question I've sometimes pondered. I'd be interested in others' thoughts.

By the way, I've always considered SQ's service such an asset to Christchurch - providing a one stop service to Asia and Europe for what is, in global terms, a pretty small city. Their ongoing presence really does inspire a degree of loyalty.

QF46 wrote:

Hi all,

In recent months Emirates have deployed the A380 on SYD-CHC services, and introduced a non-stop service between DXB and AKL. This prompts me to speculate as to whether a non-stop DXB-CHC service would be viable, whether with an A380 or a 777-200LR.

My assumption is that the yields on a DXB-CHC service wouldn't be sufficient to justify a non-stop service, given the costs that come with ultra long haul flying. That said, considering the overall passenger volumes between Christchurch and Europe (including on SQ, NZ via AKL and its transit points, QF via Australia, CZ and EK), this is a question I've sometimes pondered. I'd be interested in others' thoughts.

By the way, I've always considered SQ's service such an asset to Christchurch - providing a one stop service to Asia and Europe for what is, in global terms, a pretty small city. Their ongoing presence really does inspire a degree of loyalty.

Is the 10,700 ft runway enough for a fully loaded 77L to take off in? If it is, I would think that that would work with a few codeshares to CHC from regional airports.

Interesting re EK and CHC, how much have loads improved over the years, maybe a bit better now with the QF codeshares? The A380 is there because it goes to SYD, similar to AKL although loads are reasonable now on the Tasman sectors not sure if they have dropped at all with the non stop operating? Obviously they vary a bit seasonally.

Personally I'd probably see a second AKL non stop before CHC with a different schedule probably leaving AKL at 1400 or 0300 arriving at either 0500 or 0100.

10700ft runway should be plenty even for a 17 hr flight.

ZK-NBT wrote:

Interesting re EK and CHC, how much have loads improved over the years, maybe a bit better now with the QF codeshares? The A380 is there because it goes to SYD, similar to AKL although loads are reasonable now on the Tasman sectors not sure if they have dropped at all with the non stop operating? Obviously they vary a bit seasonally.

Personally I'd probably see a second AKL non stop before CHC with a different schedule probably leaving AKL at 1400 or 0300 arriving at either 0500 or 0100.

10700ft runway should be plenty even for a 17 hr flight.

It might start when EK get smaller aircraft

I don't think EK will get a smaller aircraft than the 77L for long haul. Maybe 787's or A350's for regional.

More to the point is what will QR do when the 77L phases out...

Air NZ 789 ZK-NZH as NZ281D SIN-DRW-AKL is circling AKL at 38,000 ft while they mow the grass beside the runway. Surely they could stop for 10 mins and let it land.

PA515

Air NZ 320 ZK-OJF did an AKL-PPT charter as NZ1980 on 03 Nov, positioning back as NZ6019.

Video and ATC by Bruno Levionnois.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qINooJD2Ilo

PA515

Does any of our New Zealand aviation enthusiasts think NZ might consider an order for 788'S to offer non stop flights from CHC or WLG to Asian destinations? Would the 788 make a route between AKL-CTS worth NZ to consider? Perhaps a stupid question why didn't NZ order and operate the 757? Would have been a great plane for Tasman service?

NZ321 wrote:

More to the point is what will QR do when the 77L phases out...

778's? A359LR?


Highly unlikely NZ will order the 788 they had it on order and switched to the 789, NZ aren't interested in long haul ex WLG/CHC though there's a chance I think that they could do 1-2 CHC routes that op out of AKL atleast daily, however NZ as a country is to small for more than 1 main long haul hub.

The 757 would have been a good fit Trans Tasman probably but it wouldn't have had the flexibility to do anything else.

NZ321 wrote:

More to the point is what will QR do when the 77L phases out...

They will probably have some 777-8 's in their fleet which will carry ~ 40t for ~ 19 hrs.

[quote="ZK-NBTThe 757 would have been a good fit Trans Tasman probably but it wouldn't have had the flexibility to do anything else.[/quote]

I would have thought that when the 757 was in its heyday it would have had far to much capacity for the TT services.

sunrisevalley wrote:

NZ321 wrote:

More to the point is what will QR do when the 77L phases out...

They will probably have some 777-8 's in their fleet which will carry ~ 40t for ~ 19 hrs.

QR has 10 777-8 on order to replace their 9 77L.

So on a typical non stop 17hr 15 min day out of AKL they will have a payload of about 48t. A pretty decent payload.

Curious would NZ consider buying 788'S to start non stops from CHC and and WLG to asia? Perhaps flying AKL on Tasman routes and AKL- CTS 3 or 4 weekly?

georgiabill wrote:

Curious would NZ consider buying 788'S to start non stops from CHC and and WLG to asia? Perhaps flying AKL on Tasman routes and AKL- CTS 3 or 4 weekly?

The 788 is actually quite a bit different to the 789, and for that reduced capacity it does not offer a much reduced fuel burn.

Better off getting more 789's and operate them with a slight payload hit if need be.

georgiabill wrote:

Curious would NZ consider buying 788'S to start non stops from CHC and and WLG to asia? Perhaps flying AKL on Tasman routes and AKL- CTS 3 or 4 weekly?

See the response you got above:

ZK-NBT wrote:

Highly unlikely NZ will order the 788 they had it on order and switched to the 789, NZ aren't interested in long haul ex WLG/CHC though there's a chance I think that they could do 1-2 CHC routes that op out of AKL atleast daily, however NZ as a country is to small for more than 1 main long haul hub.

As ZK-NBT says, Air NZ has been fairly clear for some time that it doesn't see a market for long haul flights out of Wellington or Christchurch, and would rather hub everything through Auckland. In particular, they have been a vocal critic of the plan to extend the runway at Wellington to allow longer-haul flights from there.

V/F

sunrisevalley wrote:

[quote="ZK-NBTThe 757 would have been a good fit Trans Tasman probably but it wouldn't have had the flexibility to do anything else.

I would have thought that when the 757 was in its heyday it would have had far to much capacity for the TT services.[/quote]

In the mid 1980's when the 757 came out NZ had 742's and then got 762's in 1985, maybe the odd 732 Tasman run. The 762 had 200ish seats, QF were an all 747 airline from 1979/85. NZ/QF codeshared on some flights. Not sure on frequency but outside of AKL-SYD most routes were probably less than daily until the 762 came along. So no I don't think the 752 would have been to big at all and competition Was much less as was frequency.

WLG-CBR has been going for over 2 months now, does anybody have any information on how it's been going so far. I've been quite interested in this flight since it began as I'm from here in Wellington. I've been hearing around that a lot of people have been using the service as what a suppose it was designed for and that is using Singapore as a gateway to Asia and Europe. I heard a lot of people travelling to India have been using it as well. Any information is highly regarded.

ZKOXA

China Southern is further increasing frequency on the CAN-CHC route over the peak summer months

CZ had previously planned on increasing the frequency from 3 weekly to 5 weekly from December 12 to February 27, however today has announced that between January 15 and February 17 they will further increase the frequency to a daily service

This is very good news for CHC after losing the OZ charter service, and is very impressive development of the service considering it only began 12 months ago

http://www.christchurchairport.co.nz/en ... s-flights/

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... ristchurch

Air NZ new aircraft for 2017 - with the last of the A320CEO now delivered, and this years batch of 787s all wrapped up, can anyone shed light on deliveries for next year? I am showing 2x 789 loaded in Boeings system -NZL LN607 and -NZM LN624 - currently they are delivering the + - LN500 airplanes so I would expect these two around Oct-Nov 2017 at 10/month (they are supposed to be going to 12/month). These will AFAIK be NZ's first Charleston assembled frames.

As to the A320NEO, I am not yet seeing them listed on Airbus production list. Will the A321NEO be the first deliveries?

Pretty sure it's 2 789's around the time you say. And A321's first I think total 5 A320/321 next year. I wonder how many A320's leave same number as new ones arriving? 18 to replace 13.

ZK-NBT wrote:

Pretty sure it's 2 789's around the time you say. And A321's first I think total 5 A320/321 next year. I wonder how many A320's leave same number as new ones arriving? 18 to replace 13.

I think some of the leased ones are going away next year.

[quote="77west"]Air NZ new aircraft for 2017 - with the last of the A320CEO now delivered, and this years batch of 787s all wrapped up, can anyone shed light on deliveries for next year? I am showing 2x 789 loaded in Boeings system -NZL LN607 and -NZM LN624 - currently they are delivering the + - LN500 airplanes so I would expect these two around Oct-Nov 2017 at 10/month (they are supposed to be going to 12/month). These will AFAIK be NZ's first Charleston assembled frames.]

I believe these will be the higher premium seating version.

77west wrote:

Air NZ new aircraft for 2017 - with the last of the A320CEO now delivered, and this years batch of 787s all wrapped up, can anyone shed light on deliveries for next year? I am showing 2x 789 loaded in Boeings system -NZL LN607 and -NZM LN624 - currently they are delivering the + - LN500 airplanes so I would expect these two around Oct-Nov 2017 at 10/month (they are supposed to be going to 12/month). These will AFAIK be NZ's first Charleston assembled frames.

As to the A320NEO, I am not yet seeing them listed on Airbus production list. Will the A321NEO be the first deliveries?

ZK-NBT wrote:

Pretty sure it's 2 789's around the time you say. And A321's first I think total 5 A320/321 next year. I wonder how many A320's leave same number as new ones arriving? 18 to replace 13.

ZK-NZL( L/N 607) now due for delivery 12 Oct 2017 and ZK-NZM (L/N 624) now due for delivery 14 Nov 2017. They were due 20 Sep 2017 and 30 Oct 2017 but the Everett deliveries are now about a week later and the Charleston deliveries about two weeks later.

From the information provided to date, the first NEO is an A321NEO (leased from ALC) due in Aug 2017, then an A320NEO (leased from ALC) due in September 2017, then another A321NEO (owned by NZ) in 'late 2017'. Between 01 Jan and 30 Jun 2018 another ALC aircraft and two owned aircraft. Between 01 Jul and 31 Dec 2018 the last two ALC aircraft. And between 01 Jul 2018 and 30 Jun 2019 five owned aircraft. Total thirteen.

However, there is the extra five aircraft available for which no details have been provided so far. There was nothing new in the 2016 Annual Report, Analyst Presentation, but since then there has been a visit to AKL by the ALC Gulfstream, which went on to NOU the next day.

In the NZ Herald today/yesterday there was a report that Aircalin has signed for two A320NEO and two A330-900 but it doesn't say if these will be owned or leased or when they will be delivered.

As for the regional A320s leaving the fleet, the information in the 2016 Annual Report, Analyst Presentation says five leave in FY 2018 and seven in FY 2019, leaving one for after 30 Jun 2019. This is probably due to the last A321/A320NEO on order arriving close to that time.

I expect some, if not all, of the five additional aircraft available to be ordered and perhaps the Feb 2017 Analyst Presentation will give some delivery details.

Air NZ could delay the departure of one or two regional 320s and use them for domestic until the addtional aircraft are delivered. From memory Air NZ will have up to ten daily AKL-ZQN 320s and three daily CHC-ZQN 320s this summer.

PA515

ZKOXA wrote:

WLG-CBR has been going for over 2 months now, does anybody have any information on how it's been going so far. I've been quite interested in this flight since it began as I'm from here in Wellington. I've been hearing around that a lot of people have been using the service as what a suppose it was designed for and that is using Singapore as a gateway to Asia and Europe. I heard a lot of people travelling to India have been using it as well. Any information is highly regarded.

ZKOXA

I've been told by some that would know more than I, that loads have been very impressive (for a start-up). In the 80's and sometimes 90's.
I do have doubts though... if the loads were really at this level, wouldn't Wellington Airport be screaming about it as a justification for the runway extension?

aerohottie wrote:

I've been told by some that would know more than I, that loads have been very impressive (for a start-up). In the 80's and sometimes 90's.
I do have doubts though... if the loads were really at this level, wouldn't Wellington Airport be screaming about it as a justification for the runway extension?

Guess it depends on whether the 80-90% loads are predominantly SIN-bound or CBR-bound.

sunrisevalley wrote:

77west wrote:

Air NZ new aircraft for 2017 - with the last of the A320CEO now delivered, and this years batch of 787s all wrapped up, can anyone shed light on deliveries for next year? I am showing 2x 789 loaded in Boeings system -NZL LN607 and -NZM LN624 - currently they are delivering the + - LN500 airplanes so I would expect these two around Oct-Nov 2017 at 10/month (they are supposed to be going to 12/month). These will AFAIK be NZ's first Charleston assembled frames.]

I believe these will be the higher premium seating version.

You believe correctly. I'm very interested like others where they will go as a new US route would be announced soon if it was say ORD, IAH and EZE were announced a year before they started.

PA515 I agree with you that nothing has been said publicly about the 5 extra A320NEOs, only thing I've heard is 1-2 members here saying they read it in the annual report, personally I think NZ would make some noise if they firm them up.

If WLG-CBR is doing that well the next step will be to make it daily which SQ hope to do.