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PSG55
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Will BA ever return to HRE?

Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:35 pm

Given the still close ties that exist between the UK and Zimbabwe and the large diaspora of Zimbabweans in the UK (of all colours), is BA missing an opportunity not to serve Harare in the absence of Air Zimbabwe's service to LGW?

Sure, there's the Comair network that routes via JHB but does anyone think they may return to the city direct from LHR or LGW?
 
G-CIVP
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:52 pm

Presumably when and if the sanctions against the country are lifted. Until that time, I very much doubt it.
 
vv701
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Wed Nov 23, 2016 5:34 pm

I wold guess that most of today's traffic from LON to HRE is flying LHR-JNB-HRE by BA / BA Comair. So even if sanctions were lifted I cannot see BA rushing to start a LON-HRE direct service. They would gain little for the significant increase in costs of, for example, opening a new station at HRE.. Even if EK were to offer a LHR-DXB-HRE routing I wonder if the yields would sustain the service.
 
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TedToToe
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:15 pm

airzim wrote:
....who's succeeding Mugabe

Mrs Mugabe, apparently!
 
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Siren
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:58 am

I'm sure that BA will one day resume service, but it is not going to happen while Mugabe or his ZANU-PF party control the country. It's possible under MDC leadership the country may turn around, but it's going to require time and effort to undo the damage of the last 40 years of mismanagement. Until the policies change, the economy won't recover - and as such, there won't be enough traffic to support a flight of any type to Harare. Right now, the connectivity options out of there support the local environment and business climate. If HRE could support a direct service, I'm certain it would be in place.
 
evanb
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:00 am

Given BA's strategy in Africa in recent years I would think it's unlikely under any circumstances. They have dropped several other destinations in Africa including GBE, LLW, WDH, KAN, DUR, KRT, DAR, EBB and LUN. Their African strategy has changed over the years and focusses on higher capacity to a smaller number of higher yielding destinations and hubs like JNB, NBO, LOS and ACC.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:19 am

Siren wrote:
I'm sure that BA will one day resume service, but it is not going to happen while Mugabe or his ZANU-PF party control the country. It's possible under MDC leadership the country may turn around, but it's going to require time and effort to undo the damage of the last 40 years of mismanagement. Until the policies change, the economy won't recover - and as such, there won't be enough traffic to support a flight of any type to Harare. Right now, the connectivity options out of there support the local environment and business climate. If HRE could support a direct service, I'm certain it would be in place.


Greetings Siren, it seems you know a bit more than the average person about my home country. I 100% agree BA will NOT return until Mugabe is dead & gone. The problem is, in the last 36 years, Mugabe has raped Zimbabwe, literally & figuratively.

The man has no morals, no interests other than himself. The country of Zimbabwe will never be the same. The farmers were driven off or worse, there is no correct agriculture production in place. People are starving, the money is worthless (not traded by currency exchanges or banks).

The copper mines are shuttered & their is no form of support for the country except for tourism & the illegal big game poaching that is allowed in the country, if your checkbook balance is high enough, then you can blast away. That money of course ends up with Mugabe & they take off to China to shop & spend it all.

Even if he was gone today & not one person who followed his interests fell into power & the country was allowed to be a free society, it would take many smart, learned people to fix the troubles that this delightful country has experienced & many, many years it would take to pull the economy out of the huge pit that it's in.

If & When Zimbabwe turns around, it could become one of the faster emerging countries in Africa if they choose the solar & wind energy alternatives, available to them from the Chinese, hopefully when Mugabe dies.

My cousin, the last member to leave flew as a pilot for UM & finally moved to Mauritius with his dog & some pre-sent crates & 4 suitcases. He gave away his car, house & money, as it was all worthless. He is now retired & happy far enough away.
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AJCNL
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:41 am

RWA380 wrote:
Siren wrote:
I'm sure that BA will one day resume service, but it is not going to happen while Mugabe or his ZANU-PF party control the country. It's possible under MDC leadership the country may turn around, but it's going to require time and effort to undo the damage of the last 40 years of mismanagement. Until the policies change, the economy won't recover - and as such, there won't be enough traffic to support a flight of any type to Harare. Right now, the connectivity options out of there support the local environment and business climate. If HRE could support a direct service, I'm certain it would be in place.


Greetings Siren, it seems you know a bit more than the average person about my home country. I 100% agree BA will NOT return until Mugabe is dead & gone. The problem is, in the last 36 years, Mugabe has raped Zimbabwe, literally & figuratively.

The man has no morals, no interests other than himself. The country of Zimbabwe will never be the same. The farmers were driven off or worse, there is no correct agriculture production in place. People are starving, the money is worthless (not traded by currency exchanges or banks).

The copper mines are shuttered & their is no form of support for the country except for tourism & the illegal big game poaching that is allowed in the country, if your checkbook balance is high enough, then you can blast away. That money of course ends up with Mugabe & they take off to China to shop & spend it all.

Even if he was gone today & not one person who followed his interests fell into power & the country was allowed to be a free society, it would take many smart, learned people to fix the troubles that this delightful country has experienced & many, many years it would take to pull the economy out of the huge pit that it's in.

If & When Zimbabwe turns around, it could become one of the faster emerging countries in Africa if they choose the solar & wind energy alternatives, available to them from the Chinese, hopefully when Mugabe dies.

My cousin, the last member to leave flew as a pilot for UM & finally moved to Mauritius with his dog & some pre-sent crates & 4 suitcases. He gave away his car, house & money, as it was all worthless. He is now retired & happy far enough away.


Indeed, Mugabe is a Fascist, Racist Homofobe who has wreaked havoc on that country and its people. Hopefully after regime change BA will return.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:28 pm

I think BA would be happy to return to a country that is far more approachable about a myriad of operations ideals. I also think current security gaps need to be addressed. If BA were to return they'd have crew over nighting & BA needs to know their crews will remain safe. The Sale of tickets out of Zimbabwe would need to be sold in Pounds, Euros or US Dollars, not the Zimbabwe dollar.
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evanb
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:00 pm

RWA380 wrote:
I think BA would be happy to return to a country that is far more approachable about a myriad of operations ideals. I also think current security gaps need to be addressed. If BA were to return they'd have crew over nighting & BA needs to know their crews will remain safe. The Sale of tickets out of Zimbabwe would need to be sold in Pounds, Euros or US Dollars, not the Zimbabwe dollar.


Firstly, while the political situation in Zimbabwe is rather poor, there is no specific security risk. It is a surprisingly safe country, particularly for foreigners. Secondly, the Zimbabwe Dollar doesn't exist anymore. While the government have been trying to reintroduce it, US Dollars are legal tender in Zimbabwe (as are a host of other currencies) and all airlines are currently pricing and selling Zimbabwe originating tickets in forex. Neither security or currency is the impediment. I would say it's that there is no business case for flights.
 
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Siren
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:18 pm

evanb wrote:
Firstly, while the political situation in Zimbabwe is rather poor, there is no specific security risk. It is a surprisingly safe country, particularly for foreigners. Secondly, the Zimbabwe Dollar doesn't exist anymore. While the government have been trying to reintroduce it, US Dollars are legal tender in Zimbabwe (as are a host of other currencies) and all airlines are currently pricing and selling Zimbabwe originating tickets in forex. Neither security or currency is the impediment. I would say it's that there is no business case for flights.


This is very true. I've spent a good deal of time in Borrowdale and downtown, and I never once felt any security risk whatsoever. Granted, I was mostly escorted by ZANU-PF thugs, but they can be very nice hosts when they need something done for them. Sam Levy's Village rocks as a place to explore, if anyone is ever out there. :) The US Dollar situation is more or less stable out there, and the economy seems to have adapted relatively well - this is the middle and upper class population that hasn't been wiped out, that is. Those are are still on the margins are facing a very difficult time trying to re-establish themselves in a still fairly stagnant economy, but we can also look at the fact that the Chinese in particular have been investing money into the country - although not at the same rate of the more 'established' 'democracies' of Africa, so there is some growth occurring, and still some mining operations taking place, but again, if Mugabe goes, all of this should recover fairly quickly assuming somebody puts reasonable policies in place instead.
 
evanb
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:29 am

Siren wrote:
if Mugabe goes, all of this should recover fairly quickly assuming somebody puts reasonable policies in place instead.


The degradation of the infrastructure over the last decade is so severe that it'll take years to recover.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:25 pm

Agree with much of the above.

I love Zimbabwe. The country has a special place in my heart as the country we visited several times in my childhood, on BA staff concessions nonetheless. The nation's shocking decline over the last 20 years has been painful to watch and hurts me deeply. I'd love to work there and help rebuild the nation, however doing so under a government like this one doesn't agree with my way of thinking. One day I hope to return though.

The Zimbabwean people deserve far better than the bunch of evil thugs who have ruled their beautiful land for over three and a half decades. I hope that things change sooner rather than later.
 
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Siren
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:40 pm

evanb wrote:
The degradation of the infrastructure over the last decade is so severe that it'll take years to recover.


I'm not so sure the infrastructure is in as poor condition as you state. While I was there (in 2011), I experienced a reliable electric grid, fully functional traffic signaling devices on the streets, well paved good roads for the most part. I can't speak to the condition of the sewer and municipal water systems, but I believe the home in Borrowdale that I stayed in was fed from a well and then filtered. Drinking water was supplied separately... if things have degraded significantly since 2011, then I'm not privy to that - but as of 2011, things were in fairly good condition. I had reliable cellular data and voice on 3G GSM and reliable fast internet access.

If things are as they were, I see no reason why Harare couldn't support sustained growth - especially as Africa is leading the way with renewable energy sources - at least in terms of decentralized infrastructure is concerned. New buildings are often built with their own power sources, there are no "phone lines" run to many of these locations, and so on. All that's really needed is electrical energy - which is provided for, in Zim, mainly by reliable hydroelectric sources.

Soon as Mugabe is gone - that place will spring back and return to its former status as the Breadbasket of Africa.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:05 pm

This was discussed earlier this year, viewtopic.php?f=3&t=604359&p=9605037

My guess is that BA is not interested in dealing with the Zanu-PF regime or, as another poster mentioned, risk having an aircraft seized by the government as "repayment for colonial crimes".
 
evanb
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:55 am

Siren wrote:
I'm not so sure the infrastructure is in as poor condition as you state. While I was there (in 2011), I experienced a reliable electric grid, fully functional traffic signaling devices on the streets, well paved good roads for the most part. I can't speak to the condition of the sewer and municipal water systems, but I believe the home in Borrowdale that I stayed in was fed from a well and then filtered. Drinking water was supplied separately... if things have degraded significantly since 2011, then I'm not privy to that - but as of 2011, things were in fairly good condition. I had reliable cellular data and voice on 3G GSM and reliable fast internet access.


I think you'll be shocked at home much things have deteriorated since then.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:13 pm

evanb wrote:
Siren wrote:


I think you'll be shocked at home much things have deteriorated since then.


very much so, take a look at this article.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-38103849
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tommy212
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:37 pm

Often asked myself same question after my sister flew out of the last BA direct to LHR B772 service. The daily Comair link has kept the BA brand alive in Zim but ask any Zimbabwean based abroad and they would jump at a direct non stop service again. Going via Addis, Dubai, Joburg, Nairobi adds to journey time and a far cry from the old days when Air Zim and BA flew direct. They just upgraded Vic Falls Intl, runway can now accomodate widebodies, terminal re-done etc so the facilities are there for anyone who wants to fly there. You can fill flights to Zim in economy but the cash cow seats up front, doubt it, for that the economy and political environment needs to change before we can think of BA coming back.
 
Lofty
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:00 am

If BA was to return I think it would be to Vic Falls from LGW.
 
Cunard
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Re: Will BA ever return to HRE?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:09 pm

Lofty

I disagree as I don't think there would be demand for a standalone flight from LGW to Vic Falls, if BA returned to Harare it would be more than likely after a new government is put in place once Mugabe dies which can't be far off considering his age and there will more than likely be a need for belly cargo to the capital, the Zimbabwean diaspora is huge in the UK and I personally know a few that would love to see a direct non stop again from London to Harare.

Air Zimbabwe have also recently made it public that they are considering a resumption of flights from Harare to LGW in 2017 but we're have to wait and see on that one as it's not the first time in recent years they have said that.
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