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DTWPurserBoy
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Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:42 pm

The latest issue of Airliner World say that Delta has purchased six MD-11F's from Boeing. This has to be a mistake. With all the DC-10's long since retired they have no need for spares and they certainly have not made any noise about restarting a freighter operation. So I have come to the conclusion that this was just an editorial error. Anyone know anything different? See December, 2016 issue, Page 75 for details.
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wjcandee
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:08 pm

DLH rather than DL, maybe?

Or for parts?

I thourght I saw something about something like this not too long ago.
 
BostonBeau
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:20 pm

Maybe DHL, the cargo people?
 
kabq737
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:49 pm

BostonBeau wrote:
Maybe DHL, the cargo people?

Doesn't DHL lease most of their capacity instead of fly their own metal?
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
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Stitch
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:59 pm

BostonBeau wrote:
Maybe DHL, the cargo people?


They don't currently operate the MD-11F and I can't find any reports of them adding such capacity either via purchase or lease.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:17 pm

Wouldn't surprise me if they bought them for the engines.
 
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usxguy
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:27 pm

it may not be surprising if DL does buy these, but not operate them. I believe that UAL owns a handful of Air Canada's A330s.
xx
 
jetjeanes
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:53 pm

I know I bring a ton of freight in from Europe now , trucks of it and some goes dl and overflow goes klm and air france Dl handles both airlines cargo facilities in atl.. Maybe they see what their missing.. Gee an Md-11f has got to be cheap on the market..Im surprised they are going with an md-11 though when they about to dump those 747,s which could be converted.
i can see for 80 miles
 
sxf24
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:54 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
Wouldn't surprise me if they bought them for the engines.


Correct. The CF6 is common between the MD-11F and 767. I would imagine DL sells the frames to someone else for parts.
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:02 pm

sxf24 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Wouldn't surprise me if they bought them for the engines.


Correct. The CF6 is common between the MD-11F and 767. I would imagine DL sells the frames to someone else for parts.


There are at least 3 stored former Aeroflot and 2 former Ethiopian MD-11s registered to Boeing Capital. All have CF-6 power.
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sxf24
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:16 pm

Spacepope wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
MSPNWA wrote:
Wouldn't surprise me if they bought them for the engines.


Correct. The CF6 is common between the MD-11F and 767. I would imagine DL sells the frames to someone else for parts.


There are at least 3 stored former Aeroflot and 2 former Ethiopian MD-11s registered to Boeing Capital. All have CF-6 power.


These are 5 of the 6 airplanes being discussed. The sixth is an ex-Cargoitalia bird.
 
OSL777FLYER
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:42 pm

kabq737 wrote:
BostonBeau wrote:
Maybe DHL, the cargo people?

Doesn't DHL lease most of their capacity instead of fly their own metal?


In Europe DHL flies its own aircraft. Mostly A300's, B757 and B767. They also have a JV with Aerologic together with Lufthansa. As Lufthansa Cargo still flies MD-11's this could be a reason, but I am just guessing
 
bigbird
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:43 pm

They were purchased for the engines.
bigbird from georgia
 
Okie
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:56 pm

bigbird wrote:
They were purchased for the engines

So the mighty CF6 has pretty much fallen to Delta Tech and Kalitta for overhaul it appears. Anyone else left to do overhauls on the CF6?

Okie
 
DTWPurserBoy
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:06 am

bigbird wrote:
They were purchased for the engines.


Now that makes sense.
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rbavfan
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:45 am

DTWPurserBoy wrote:
bigbird wrote:
They were purchased for the engines.


Now that makes sense.


The engines are worth more than the airframe at this poimt. So it does make sense. They can use the engines or part them out for spares. Cheaper than ordering parts as well.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:12 am

Do they have all the stands and tooling tog eat those number 2 engines out?
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:56 am

sxf24 wrote:
Spacepope wrote:
sxf24 wrote:

Correct. The CF6 is common between the MD-11F and 767. I would imagine DL sells the frames to someone else for parts.


There are at least 3 stored former Aeroflot and 2 former Ethiopian MD-11s registered to Boeing Capital. All have CF-6 power.


These are 5 of the 6 airplanes being discussed. The sixth is an ex-Cargoitalia bird.

Thanks, I wasn't having luck finding the last one. It's pretty amazing how engines are driving purchases nowadays, with the lack of anyone overhauling jt9ds seeming to be the nail in the coffin for the 747 classic. Give it another year of. Small freight operators doing their thing and we'll see the older civil Pratt and Garrett biz aircraft get bought up for low time. Engines too.
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johnclipper
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:03 am

Could it have been DLH=Deutsche Lufthansa instead?
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kabq737
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:09 am

OSL777FLYER wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
BostonBeau wrote:
Maybe DHL, the cargo people?

Doesn't DHL lease most of their capacity instead of fly their own metal?


In Europe DHL flies its own aircraft. Mostly A300's, B757 and B767. They also have a JV with Aerologic together with Lufthansa. As Lufthansa Cargo still flies MD-11's this could be a reason, but I am just guessing

Oh interesting. Thanks for the info!
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
finnishway
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:03 am

Makes sense. New engines cost more than used MD-11's. They can always sell rest of the aircraft as spare parts & scrap metal.
 
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n901wa
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:39 pm

Funny, I was wondering how long before this showed up. This was back in May or June. Also bought some MD-11 CF6 Engines from EVA MD-11 being parted out. But unlike the EVA MD-11s these were the whole MD-11 from what I understand at the time, Engines going to Delta and the rest going to Delta Material Services.
 
777Mech
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:58 pm

n901wa wrote:
Funny, I was wondering how long before this showed up. This was back in May or June. Also bought some MD-11 CF6 Engines from EVA MD-11 being parted out. But unlike the EVA MD-11s these were the whole MD-11 from what I understand at the time, Engines going to Delta and the rest going to Delta Material Services.


I thought someone had mentioned there were some components in the MD-11 that were in common with the MD-90. Is that the case?
 
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AerolineasAR343
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:06 am

I'll never understand the economics of parts of a thing being more expensive than the whole thing. I get that there isn't much need for MD-11s now, but I figure that the sellers know what's the buyer's intention (in this case, only the engines) so they could adjust the price accordingly.
 
sxf24
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:15 am

AerolineasAR343 wrote:
I'll never understand the economics of parts of a thing being more expensive than the whole thing. I get that there isn't much need for MD-11s now, but I figure that the sellers know what's the buyer's intention (in this case, only the engines) so they could adjust the price accordingly.


Intentions play a big part in the sale negotiations for used aircraft. A buyer will put less effort into, and expect less money for, an aircraft being sold for parts than one that will continue flying.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:32 am

AerolineasAR343 wrote:
I'll never understand the economics of parts of a thing being more expensive than the whole thing. I get that there isn't much need for MD-11s now, but I figure that the sellers know what's the buyer's intention (in this case, only the engines) so they could adjust the price accordingly.

The whole aircraft has added costs. Storage costs and occasional runs if contracted for, plus insurance and maybe even some longterm leasing costs. Break it up and these go away. There's also the ready market for flyable spares that makes them valuable once removed and recertified.

Manufacturers also make money on spares and structures, so if you can cut a door frame or floor section out of a parked bird and sell it on then it has substantial value whilst being much cheaper than buying from the OEM. That's why companies like Easyjet flew young 73Gs straight to the breakers; they were worth more as parts than whole aircraft.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:38 am

Okie wrote:
bigbird wrote:
They were purchased for the engines

So the mighty CF6 has pretty much fallen to Delta Tech and Kalitta for overhaul it appears. Anyone else left to do overhauls on the CF6?

Okie

There is a world outside the USA.

Brand new A330s are still coming off the line with the CF6. There are certified shops all over the world who can do CF6 work. Many will also be FAA compliant. Lufthansa Tech for instance; they have a number of locations for engine overhauling. KLM also did engine heavy work although nowadays I think they are pooling work more with Air France who always maintain their own motors. All 3 are (or were) CF6 users in their own right and also for client airlines. That's without the Middle East and Asia.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:49 am

Channex757 wrote:
Okie wrote:
bigbird wrote:
They were purchased for the engines

So the mighty CF6 has pretty much fallen to Delta Tech and Kalitta for overhaul it appears. Anyone else left to do overhauls on the CF6?

Okie

There is a world outside the USA.

Brand new A330s are still coming off the line with the CF6. There are certified shops all over the world who can do CF6 work. Many will also be FAA compliant. Lufthansa Tech for instance; they have a number of locations for engine overhauling. KLM also did engine heavy work although nowadays I think they are pooling work more with Air France who always maintain their own motors. All 3 are (or were) CF6 users in their own right and also for client airlines. That's without the Middle East and Asia.

For what its worth the 330 CF6 isn't exactly a 767 CF6.

Delta for example overhaul CF6-80A and CF6-80C2 engines but, AFAIK, will be sending its CF6-80E1 engines out.

Having said that, I believe LHT and AF/KL E&M do both the CF6-80C2 and CF6-80E1 engines.

Assuming Okie is talking about in the US, I believe DL and Kalitta are the only (non-GE) vendors that do CF6 overhauls in the US. Neither do CF6-80E1 overhauls and like I said I believe DL is planning to send them out. (however it would be nice if the CF6-80E1 and PW4168s came in-house once the new test cell is online.)

Sorry for the thread re-hash.
 
n7371f
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Re: Delta Buys Six MD-11(F)'s???

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:21 am

The report is correct. Delta lists 6 MD-11's on its off-spec owned aircraft. Planes were purchased from Boeing Capital. GE engines have enough common parts for GE engines on the 767 fleet.

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