keitherson
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Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:08 pm

https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-198
https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-197

Hong Kong Airlines Limited has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an exemption from subsection 110(1) of the ATR in order to sell transportation between Hong Kong and points in Canada without having a tariff applicable to these Canadian services on file and in effect with the Agency. Hong Kong Airlines Limited wishes to commence selling services, but the applicable Canadian tariff is not yet ready to be filed with the Agency. It is seeking a 90-day exemption period until it files its own tariff with the Agency in anticipation of the commencement of its service at the end of June 2017.


The applicant has applied for a scheduled international licence to operate a service between Hong Kong and Canada. However, as the application is not yet complete, an exemption from the application of section 59 of the CTA has been requested.
The applicant indicates that it intends to commence commercial activities in Canada on June 30, 2017 and that it is in the process of obtaining a Canadian aviation document (CAD) from Transport Canada, which is required to complete the licence application.

The applicant states that passengers on long-haul international flights usually make reservations months in advance prior to departure and that the exemption is necessary to assist it in securing bookings in advance of the launch to make this new route economically successful.


Their A350s are due in May.

Cathay has also expanded codeshares with AC: perhaps preparing for the inevitable?
 
AsiaTravel
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:54 pm

They are only receiving 1 A350 in 2017 tough, they won't go far with that.
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:58 pm

keitherson wrote:
https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-198
https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/2016-a-197

Hong Kong Airlines Limited has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an exemption from subsection 110(1) of the ATR in order to sell transportation between Hong Kong and points in Canada without having a tariff applicable to these Canadian services on file and in effect with the Agency. Hong Kong Airlines Limited wishes to commence selling services, but the applicable Canadian tariff is not yet ready to be filed with the Agency. It is seeking a 90-day exemption period until it files its own tariff with the Agency in anticipation of the commencement of its service at the end of June 2017.


The applicant has applied for a scheduled international licence to operate a service between Hong Kong and Canada. However, as the application is not yet complete, an exemption from the application of section 59 of the CTA has been requested.
The applicant indicates that it intends to commence commercial activities in Canada on June 30, 2017 and that it is in the process of obtaining a Canadian aviation document (CAD) from Transport Canada, which is required to complete the licence application.

The applicant states that passengers on long-haul international flights usually make reservations months in advance prior to departure and that the exemption is necessary to assist it in securing bookings in advance of the launch to make this new route economically successful.


Their A350s are due in May.

Cathay has also expanded codeshares with AC: perhaps preparing for the inevitable?


Yep, the 3x weekly A350 CX will be sending to YVR in April likely is no coincidence and they know HX ops to YVR aren't far off. Back in in 2007 when Oasis began flights to YVR, Cathay answered by adding a third flight which was shortly dropped following Oasis bankruptcy.
 
APYu
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:29 am

AsiaTravel wrote:
They are only receiving 1 A350 in 2017 tough, they won't go far with that.


They are getting three from Aercap. Ones which supposed to be going to Azul.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:14 pm

Schedule released today

HX080 HKG1230 – 1010YVR 332 D
HX081 YVR1210 – 1650+1HKG 332 D
 
YVRing
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:17 pm

Guess they couldn't wait for the A350.
 
raylee67
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:31 pm

If A332 is capable of flying to YVR, there is no need to wait for A350.
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ahj2000
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Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:48 pm

From what I understand, their 332 has an Alitalia/Etihad sort of seating arrangement, so it should still be a good ride in the back, and will have 2-4-2 instead of 3-3-3, so less middles in the rear. FWIW.
-Andrés Juánez
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:22 pm

raylee67 wrote:
If A332 is capable of flying to YVR, there is no need to wait for A350.


Although the A332 is capable of flying the route, it is weight restricted. The route will certainly transition to the A359 as soon as they begin taking deliveries however until then there will be some operational issues.
 
DFW789ER
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:25 pm

RL777 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
If A332 is capable of flying to YVR, there is no need to wait for A350.


Although the A332 is capable of flying the route, it is weight restricted. The route will certainly transition to the A359 as soon as they begin taking deliveries however until then there will be some operational issues.


I would state they need to prove the route is successful before moving it up to a 350. There's a fair amount of capacity YVR-HKG.
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:01 pm

DFW789ER wrote:
RL777 wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
If A332 is capable of flying to YVR, there is no need to wait for A350.


Although the A332 is capable of flying the route, it is weight restricted. The route will certainly transition to the A359 as soon as they begin taking deliveries however until then there will be some operational issues.


I would state they need to prove the route is successful before moving it up to a 350. There's a fair amount of capacity YVR-HKG.


I have a difficult time seeing HX turn a profit on this route, I can't see their fares being lower being lower than AC who has the low yield Y pax segment covered pretty well and the premium travellers will continue to choose CX which leaves little room for HX. In addition, until they up gauge to the A359 they will have to leave cargo behind which reduces revenue even further. It will be interesting to see if the fare much better than Oasis did back in 2007.
 
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zeke
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:58 pm

RL777 wrote:
Yep, the 3x weekly A350 CX will be sending to YVR in April likely is no coincidence and they know HX ops to YVR aren't far off. Back in in 2007 when Oasis began flights to YVR, Cathay answered by adding a third flight which was shortly dropped following Oasis bankruptcy.


I used to fly to YVR on the A340 before Oasis was about when there were two daily 744 flights. We had a seasonal increase to 3 flights with the A340 every year.
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behramjee
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:05 pm

It is very foolish of HX wanting to launch their North America expansion with YVR being the first route. Though it is a high P2P market segment they should have learnt from the mistakes of Oasis and rather focus on markets currently not served nonstop by CX which have decent potential with an A359. These include Seattle (4wk), Calgary (3 weekly) and Las Vegas (4 weekly). They can get China bound traffic via HKG along side the expected P2P. There should be no rush to undertake such a risk and instead it would be wise to wait for the A359s to get delivered !
 
nname
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:19 pm

behramjee wrote:
It is very foolish of HX wanting to launch their North America expansion with YVR being the first route. Though it is a high P2P market segment they should have learnt from the mistakes of Oasis and rather focus on markets currently not served nonstop by CX which have decent potential with an A359. These include Seattle (4wk), Calgary (3 weekly) and Las Vegas (4 weekly). They can get China bound traffic via HKG along side the expected P2P. There should be no rush to undertake such a risk and instead it would be wise to wait for the A359s to get delivered !


They also want to start New York in 2017, San Francisco and Los Angeles in 2018, then Chicago in 2020. Then add in European expansion to London, Paris, Milan, Australian to Sydney and Melbourne, and then New Zealand... all on or before 2020. So I think YVR won't see their A350 for quite some time...
 
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tacobell101
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:23 pm

hongkongflyer wrote:
Schedule released today

HX080 HKG1230 – 1010YVR 332 D
HX081 YVR1210 – 1650+1HKG 332 D


Can I please see your source?
 
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tacobell101
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:09 am

tacobell101 wrote:
hongkongflyer wrote:
Schedule released today

HX080 HKG1230 – 1010YVR 332 D
HX081 YVR1210 – 1650+1HKG 332 D


Can I please see your source?



Never mind. It has been confirmed.

Source YVR airport
http://www.yvr.ca/en/blog/2016/hong-kon ... ars-to-yvr
 
keitherson
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:10 am

RL777 wrote:
DFW789ER wrote:
RL777 wrote:

Although the A332 is capable of flying the route, it is weight restricted. The route will certainly transition to the A359 as soon as they begin taking deliveries however until then there will be some operational issues.


I would state they need to prove the route is successful before moving it up to a 350. There's a fair amount of capacity YVR-HKG.


I have a difficult time seeing HX turn a profit on this route, I can't see their fares being lower being lower than AC who has the low yield Y pax segment covered pretty well and the premium travellers will continue to choose CX which leaves little room for HX. In addition, until they up gauge to the A359 they will have to leave cargo behind which reduces revenue even further. It will be interesting to see if the fare much better than Oasis did back in 2007.


It will hurt both CX and AC. That's why both of them have had to expand codesharing, as seen in the filings.
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:00 am

keitherson wrote:
RL777 wrote:
DFW789ER wrote:

I would state they need to prove the route is successful before moving it up to a 350. There's a fair amount of capacity YVR-HKG.


I have a difficult time seeing HX turn a profit on this route, I can't see their fares being lower being lower than AC who has the low yield Y pax segment covered pretty well and the premium travellers will continue to choose CX which leaves little room for HX. In addition, until they up gauge to the A359 they will have to leave cargo behind which reduces revenue even further. It will be interesting to see if the fare much better than Oasis did back in 2007.


It will hurt both CX and AC. That's why both of them have had to expand codesharing, as seen in the filings.


I think its yet to be seen if it will hurt them. Both carriers are smart and have made moves in anticipation of HX entering the market in 2017. Between the codeshares and the new 3x weekly CX flight, I'd say they have adequately reacted to the "threat" HX could pose.
 
YLWbased
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:15 am

HX doesn't solely base their business decision on Commercial Logic, just last month, HNA Group purchased a piece of land in Kowloon, Hong Kong at a cost that is higher than what new condos are selling for at the time. It shocks the entire industry as such purchase decision makes absolutely no business sense.

Some analysis suggested that it has something to do with devaluating CNY and continue economy restriction in mainland China, these non-state own entity have to find a way to shift their capital else where.

YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:53 am

behramjee wrote:
It is very foolish of HX wanting to launch their North America expansion with YVR being the first route. Though it is a high P2P market segment they should have learnt from the mistakes of Oasis and rather focus on markets currently not served nonstop by CX which have decent potential with an A359. These include Seattle (4wk), Calgary (3 weekly) and Las Vegas (4 weekly). They can get China bound traffic via HKG along side the expected P2P. There should be no rush to undertake such a risk and instead it would be wise to wait for the A359s to get delivered !


HX has the strong support from their parent, HU, which Oasis didn't have.
 
keitherson
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Re: Hong Kong Airlines to YVR? A350?

Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:58 am

RL777 wrote:
keitherson wrote:
RL777 wrote:

I have a difficult time seeing HX turn a profit on this route, I can't see their fares being lower being lower than AC who has the low yield Y pax segment covered pretty well and the premium travellers will continue to choose CX which leaves little room for HX. In addition, until they up gauge to the A359 they will have to leave cargo behind which reduces revenue even further. It will be interesting to see if the fare much better than Oasis did back in 2007.


It will hurt both CX and AC. That's why both of them have had to expand codesharing, as seen in the filings.


I think its yet to be seen if it will hurt them. Both carriers are smart and have made moves in anticipation of HX entering the market in 2017. Between the codeshares and the new 3x weekly CX flight, I'd say they have adequately reacted to the "threat" HX could pose.


By dumping capacity and seeing if they can price HX out of the market? In any case, if I start seeing C$350 fares roundup YVR-HKG on Cathay... I'll be spending a lot more time there ;)

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