DC1979
Topic Author
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:37 am

Star Alliance inside politics

Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:31 am

I was booking a flight to BKK from YYZ with AC and was surprised that the cheapest options were connecting through HKG onto CX. The flights connecting with TG and OZ were significantly more expensive, which I found odd, although flights connecting onto NH were priced similarly to CX connections. This led me to wonder how the individual airlines at Star get along with each other. It appears some airlines work very closely with each other, while the relationship between other airlines appears almost non existent. I have heard the relationship between AC/UA and TG/SQ is very frosty, AC seems to get along much better with AI and TK than UA does, AC/UA/LH seem to ignore LO, etc. Just curious what the behind the scene dynamics are. Is there a hierarchy among the airlines? Do UA and LH run the show as I've seen posted elsewhere? Where does that leave some of the other airlines such as AC, NH, TK, OZ, NZ? Do they have any voice within the alliance or is it mainly follow the leader? Does SQ have any interest in cooperating at all? (Although recently it looks like SQ has decided to play nicer with the other airlines). I don't really hear much about SK, SA, LO, TP (in terms of having a voice within the alliance). I ask these questions as an outsider. I don't have any inside knowledge of the industry, I'm just someone who enjoys aviation, so I apologize if the answers to these questions are common knowledge within the industry. I've always been curious about this, and I figured this would be the place to ask! Thanks for any input!
 
zkanz
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:02 am

Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:45 am

Well I am not sure about other airlines, but I know that NZ will for a JV/codeshare with just about anyone, even those outside Star (CX, VA, AR TN, and VS are just the major ones). They do have solid relationships with many airlines within Star, having extensive agreements with SQ, UA and CA, and smaller ones with the likes of AC, NH, LH, while codesharing on most airlines within Star. When looking at flights a few years back to Seattle from AKL (via LAX/SFO) I was offered a few options on AS and VX before seeing a UA option come up (not sure if anything has changed since the NZ/UA JV came into effect).

I know LO was excluded from the US-EU JV so that may answer your question as to why LO seemed to be ignored. SA is going down the crapper so I'm sure many airlines will be tentative when dealing with it.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:45 pm

AV may have very warm relations if they choose UAs bid over DLs with the rest of Star. If the collapse of the EU really happens and there is a Porxit, TP may be gobbled up by LH Group as TP is the best connection between Brazil and Europe, I can also see LH Group taking over LO as well.
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NYCRuss
Posts: 195
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:54 pm

Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:53 pm

TWA772LR wrote:
AV may have very warm relations if they choose UAs bid over DLs with the rest of Star. If the collapse of the EU really happens and there is a Porxit, TP may be gobbled up by LH Group as TP is the best connection between Brazil and Europe, I can also see LH Group taking over LO as well.


Is LO even for sale?
 
DC1979
Topic Author
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:37 am

Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:53 pm

Yes I agree with seeing LH possibly taking over LO. I feel like LO and SA are in the wrong alliance and I wonder if CX would have been better than SQ.
 
hoya
Posts: 546
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:25 pm

Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:30 am

DC1979 wrote:
Yes I agree with seeing LH possibly taking over LO. I feel like LO and SA are in the wrong alliance and I wonder if CX would have been better than SQ.


I doubt EU authorities would allow LH to take over LO, given the LH owns or partially owns so many other central European airlines (SN, LX, OS, EW, 4U, etc). Also, I doubt the current political climate in Poland would allow for a German company to take over the national airline.

NYCRuss wrote:
Is LO even for sale?


Not sure what the current goal is, but one of the previous CEOs focused heavily on making LO an attractive acquisition target, and there were rumors of TK or one of the other Middle Eastern carriers being interested. Now it seems like LO wants to expand (easier with the EU restrictions gone), and as part of that expansion it has announced the acquisition/lease of 737 MAX8s, launched new routes like LAX, and made an investment into the Estonian carrier Nordica.
Hoya Saxa!!
 
msycajun
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Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 am

Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:52 am

Out of MSY, UA and AC cooperate quite well and it's common to find good itineraries to Canada or Europe MSY-YYZ-XXX-IAD/ORD-MSY.

With CM it's the total opposite. Going one way with Copa and the other with United is often twice the price of doing the entire trip with Copa or United. It's been the cause of much vexation as CM often offers the fastest routing to Central and South America, but only operates 4x weekly. I have a feeling UA is not happy with CM for taking pax who would otherwise be connecting in IAH.
 
YIMBY
Posts: 613
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:55 am

hoya wrote:
DC1979 wrote:
Yes I agree with seeing LH possibly taking over LO. I feel like LO and SA are in the wrong alliance and I wonder if CX would have been better than SQ.


I doubt EU authorities would allow LH to take over LO, given the LH owns or partially owns so many other central European airlines (SN, LX, OS, EW, 4U, etc). Also, I doubt the current political climate in Poland would allow for a German company to take over the national airline.


I agree that the Polish government should not sell LO to LH and EU should not allow LH to buy any other airline nearby (only TP may be far enough).
LO might fit better to AF-KL, or if remaining in Star, TK/SK/UA in some combination, if they ever want, can or are allowed to buy other airlines.

Indeed, I would like there to be another strong non-Lufthansa Star Airline in Europe, e.g. merging SK+TP+LO+?, as well as a strong non-IAG One World Airline (Finnair + who?) and a strong non-AFKL SkyTeam partner (Alitalia et al, well...), but I know it to be wishful thinking, and after EU approval for recent mergers it appears rather inevitable that all the legacy airlines will collapse into three megacarriers. At least EU should control that no airline gets a dominant position within some parts of Europe.
 
zkncj
Posts: 3241
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Star Alliance inside politics

Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:33 am

Don't think NZ gets pushed around to much by *A, if anything it pushes *A around an gets what it wants.

For example a couple of years back they got *A to change the rules, so that an *G on an Seat Only fare got no free baggage allowance.

If it was really an issue I think they would leave, they have plenty of Friends an deals outside of *A that provide them an pretty good feed.

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