Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 2263
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:12 pm

Please continue your discussion and to post your updates here.

Link to previous thread:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1343659&start=250
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:48 pm

When Terminal E undergoes its growth spurt in a couple years it will displace UPS. I've heard it mentioned a couple times that the whole operation will move to Worcester. On the one hand that doesn't make much sense: High and foggy (they lost an A300 in foggy Birmingham last year), relatively short runways, not sure about instrumentation, and lousy road access for 18-wheelers. A lot of infrastructure would have to be built since UPS doesn't even fly ANYTHING there yet.

On the other hand, Massport controls Worcester, and I can see how they'd make it 'beneficial' for UPS to make that move (pay for the upgrades, waive landing fees, etc.)

Anyway, is this potential move more than just idle chatter? If they're willing to set up shop an hour from Boston, why not MHT? (which has all the things Worcester doesn't).
 
FGITD
Posts: 1536
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:11 pm

Really what should be done is just do away with runway 14/32, minimize the J pad, and expand south cargo. UPS on the harbor channel side, FedEx on the inner side. DHL is a small enough op that they can stay where they are. Consolidate all the cargo operations, the South entry gate is right there...it could make sense.

Of course after fighting for so long to build that runway, getting rid of it would be highly improbable, despite how useless it is.

Also as of today, terminal E is now gates E1-E12, with 10,11,12 still under construction.
 
tysmith95
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:46 pm

Shifting freight to PVD and MHT could allow UPS to downsize their Logan presence. I'm not sure if OHR is needed, it's not any closer to the city center compared to MHT and PVD. The area around Worcester could also be served by BDL.

Also would it be possible for Cape Air to move to Hanscom. I don't understand why planes that small are flown out of an airport as busy as Logan.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10369
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:55 pm

So here's something interesting. Once again I'm traveling to India for work in business class at the end of February to early March. By far the cheapest fare in J is BA at about $3K. then comes LH and AF in the mid $4K and QR/EK are the most expensive at over $5K. My company does not have a specific corporate contract with an airline. They will send me on the cheapest fare possible so these are "retail" prices.
However in Y, the reverse applies where QR/EK are by far the cheapest option while the Euro carriers are the most expensive. If this is true for other companies in the Boston area, the Euro carriers might have their front cabins full but they must be taking a huge beating on yields. Only $3K to fly in J from Boston to India and back is a bargain, IMO. The last time i went to India I flew with AF and paid around $5K.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:13 pm

tysmith95 wrote:
Shifting freight to PVD and MHT could allow UPS to downsize their Logan presence. I'm not sure if OHR is needed, it's not any closer to the city center compared to MHT and PVD. The area around Worcester could also be served by BDL.

Also would it be possible for Cape Air to move to Hanscom. I don't understand why planes that small are flown out of an airport as busy as Logan.


When i first saw this posted, it got me thinking. Why would Massport cough up $30m+ on CAT III equipment and other improvements to ORH unless there was a fundamental plan to use it. Of course we focus on the pax side of things, will B6 expand, will we get a bunch of RJ's flying in there, but actually as long as 5X's fleet can handle a 7K ft runway, why not have them move down to ORH, got to be a lot cheaper to run that operation out of ORH than BOS surely, they could get dedicated facilities and an airport operator willing to stump up some cash to get them out of BOS so they can focus on Pax stuff... sounds like a plan to me. My only thought is, would 5X be ok with that if FX stay at BOS? or more controversially, could both of them move, allowing for a double expansion possibility?

As for 9K, moving to Hanscom wouldn't work, while having planes that small flying out of BOS is a little crazy, they use exactly 1 gate, and can fill in schedule gaps quite easily, plus their target market is getting business people around MA and to smaller places like BHB, RKD, LEB further afield, moving them out to Hanscom would kill that pretty much as by the time you get out there you could be a long way to many of the places mentioned whereas from BOS, plus they also will get some connecting traffic from B6 and others going to those places, especially out of season.

Logan actually isn't as busy as it used to be. Rolling 12 months at the end of Oct 16 has BOS at around 368K movements, going back as far as I have records, I have them at 475K in 1998 a lot of that has to do with the shift away from regional flying, so average seat counts have gone through the roof. rough average is around 60 in 1998 to almost 100 in 2016, so a 67% increase in pax, while movements have dropped by 23% in the corresponding period.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
iyerhari
Posts: 1105
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:25 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 10:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
So here's something interesting. Once again I'm traveling to India for work in business class at the end of February to early March. By far the cheapest fare in J is BA at about $3K. then comes LH and AF in the mid $4K and QR/EK are the most expensive at over $5K. My company does not have a specific corporate contract with an airline. They will send me on the cheapest fare possible so these are "retail" prices.
However in Y, the reverse applies where QR/EK are by far the cheapest option while the Euro carriers are the most expensive. If this is true for other companies in the Boston area, the Euro carriers might have their front cabins full but they must be taking a huge beating on yields. Only $3K to fly in J from Boston to India and back is a bargain, IMO. The last time i went to India I flew with AF and paid around $5K.


airbazar - I had the same issue myself too and I am traveling via QR to BOM on the 10th Dec. Y Class Fares on QR are much better is what I remember when I booked my seats few months back. As a matter of fact, my firm which has several folks traveling back and forth from BOM/DEL/BLR are now preferring to travel on EK/QR as Y class fares are just much better than the European carriers. But one thing I did notice is that most of the fare discounts on business class in my firm is with LH and the next preferred being BA. Most probably, the business class corporate discounts must have been established with LH or BA and not with Me2.

The issue although with Middle Eastern carriers is that EK/QR do not have a premium economy although the European carriers mainly BA/LH have that so in a long flight some legroom is always better.

I will provide my QR feedback report next week when I reach BOM :)
 
B752OS
Posts: 1316
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:05 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:00 pm

FGITD wrote:
Really what should be done is just do away with runway 14/32, minimize the J pad, and expand south cargo. UPS on the harbor channel side, FedEx on the inner side. DHL is a small enough op that they can stay where they are. Consolidate all the cargo operations, the South entry gate is right there...it could make sense.

Of course after fighting for so long to build that runway, getting rid of it would be highly improbable, despite how useless it is.

Also as of today, terminal E is now gates E1-E12, with 10,11,12 still under construction.


How important, or often used is 14/32?

Long term they could move the taxi pool to where some of the old car rental facilities were located and also move the ferry terminal. Those moves would open up some space for expanded cargo ops. Only issue would be the Hyatt. It's a hidden gem of sorts in that is offers one of the best views of Boston and apparently does a pretty good wedding business. I am going to assume getting it moved would be costly.
 
FGITD
Posts: 1536
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:54 pm

B752OS wrote:
FGITD wrote:
Really what should be done is just do away with runway 14/32, minimize the J pad, and expand south cargo. UPS on the harbor channel side, FedEx on the inner side. DHL is a small enough op that they can stay where they are. Consolidate all the cargo operations, the South entry gate is right there...it could make sense.

Of course after fighting for so long to build that runway, getting rid of it would be highly improbable, despite how useless it is.

Also as of today, terminal E is now gates E1-E12, with 10,11,12 still under construction.


How important, or often used is 14/32?



You could probably count the number of times it's used per year on one hand.

For reference, pretty much from November to April, the runway is effectively unusable if there's any chance of snow at all, due to it being a deicing staging area.

Took some of the best work naps of my life out there as it happens!
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:42 am

How important, or often used is 14/32? [/quote]


You could probably count the number of times it's used per year on one hand.

For reference, pretty much from November to April, the runway is effectively unusable if there's any chance of snow at all, due to it being a deicing staging area.

Took some of the best work naps of my life out there as it happens![/quote]


Here's your answer.
http://www.massport.com/media/413730/Oc ... or-web.pdf

for 2016 14/32 was used for a total of 1,958 jet arrivals (32 was to be exact, nothing whatsoever happened in the 14 direction, that total was 1.4% of the total arrivals for the year. the only lower usage was 15R for arrivals. and 15L/33R, which is restricted to props only and there's no data to say how much 14/32 is used by props as well. Suffice to say, not very much :)..
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
cloudboy
Posts: 1124
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:19 pm

I hate to bring politics into this, but Boston is a bit at risk with potential upcoming new policies. Boston is dependent upon foreign students. How much an impact, if any, the new government is going to have on this is still up in the air, but I think few people would be willing to bet heavily upon growth in a potentially unstable time.

I can't see how ORH would be able to support UPS operations. Can they get loaded 757s into and out of there anyways?

What is the potential for simply filling in some more land for expanded gates.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
tysmith95
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:09 pm

^A republican in office is probably good for the pharmaceutical industry versus the democrats anti drug company rhetoric during the campaign. The bio-tech and pharmaceutical sector is one of the strongest industries in Boston. Anyway the admittance of middle eastern students might be affected. However I don't believe there are plans to restrict immigration from Asian countries. I'm not entirely sure of the numbers but I believe the largest portion of international students from Boston are from Asian countries.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10369
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:36 pm

chrisnh wrote:
When Terminal E undergoes its growth spurt in a couple years it will displace UPS.

Based on the current proposal, the UPS ramp is impacted by phase 2, which may never happen.
https://www.massport.com/media/347323/C ... 292015.pdf

cloudboy wrote:
I hate to bring politics into this, but Boston is a bit at risk with potential upcoming new policies. Boston is dependent upon foreign students. How much an impact, if any, the new government is going to have on this is still up in the air, but I think few people would be willing to bet heavily upon growth in a potentially unstable time.

I'm not sure the new government will have any impact on the education sector in NE. I don't remember seeing any private higher education reforms in his platform and I don't think educational institutions will ever give up the cash cow that are the foreign students. If anything it should help. Their support for the voucher program is a clear sign that they favor private education over public education.

What is the potential for simply filling in some more land for expanded gates.

You'll see a 3rd runway at LHR long before you see any land reclamation in Boston harbor :) Besides, is there really a shortage of gates at BOS? I know terminal E does but that is already being addressed.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:25 pm

cloudboy wrote:
I hate to bring politics into this, but Boston is a bit at risk with potential upcoming new policies. Boston is dependent upon foreign students. How much an impact, if any, the new government is going to have on this is still up in the air, but I think few people would be willing to bet heavily upon growth in a potentially unstable time.

I can't see how ORH would be able to support UPS operations. Can they get loaded 757s into and out of there anyways?

What is the potential for simply filling in some more land for expanded gates.


my limited searching says MTOW 752F needs 6,900ft at 86F and sea level. ORH is at 1,000ft and it's main runway is 7,000, so it's very tight, but possible. I need to find some corroborating evidence to be sure.

Update:
Here's a better source, needs the RB211 version with max thrust option, otherwise it's a no-go.

http://www.boeing.com/resources/boeingd ... s/757f.pdf
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3289
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:36 pm

UPS or any cargo carrier for that matter isn't going to go into an airport that has poor access both from the air (fog) and ground (roadway). The purpose of cargo by air is the time sensitive stuff (everything else goes by ground). as BOS grows, the cargo that is not serving the immediate Boston area (delivery before 8-10am) will be diverted to airports like PVD MHT and BDL. There is no need for BOS to handle the cargo for anything outside of 128 as land becomes a premium.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
airbazar
Posts: 10369
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:26 pm

Regarding UPS and FEDEX in BOS. The theory that they need to be there because it's close to Boston only works until you realize that most large U.S. cities don't have an airport smack in the middle of downtown. Yes it's really convenient but if space at Logan ever becomes a critical commodity, they will likely be the first to relocate to another airport in the region. However I don't see that happening any time soon.
s BOS grows, the cargo that is not serving the immediate Boston area (delivery before 8-10am) will be diverted to airports like PVD MHT and BDL. There is no need for BOS to handle the cargo for anything outside of 128 as land becomes a premium.

Agree.
 
tomaheath
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:04 pm

Is there any plans to add better highways access to ORH? Is it even feasible?
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 770
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:27 pm

tomaheath wrote:
Is there any plans to add better highways access to ORH? Is it even feasible?


It's been proposed several times in the past and each time it's been voted down overwhelmingly. If I remember correctly to do it properly would require the removal of several residential neighborhoods via eminent domain...so, feasible yes but, highly costly and very unlikely anytime soon.
 
rob2507
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2001 3:47 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:12 pm

Why not Pease instead of ORH? I know it's close to I-95 but I've never been there--what are the pros and cons?
 
tomaheath
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:58 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:16 pm

rob2507 wrote:
Why not Pease instead of ORH? I know it's close to I-95 but I've never been there--what are the pros and cons?

I'd think PVD and or MHT would be better than PSM just for the fact UPS is already set up at those locations.
 
User avatar
mikegigs
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:49 pm

I could totally see FedEx or UPS at BED. Its relatively close to the city (closer than any other options) and I believe the runways are long enough. Plus it is owned by Massport (at least the civilian part of it), that should make for a smoother move.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
tharanga
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:29 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:10 am

airbazar wrote:
I'm not sure the new government will have any impact on the education sector in NE. I don't remember seeing any private higher education reforms in his platform and I don't think educational institutions will ever give up the cash cow that are the foreign students. .


While this isn't directly aimed at students while they are students, the candidate said a variety of negative things about H-1B visas. But he said a lot of unclear things about a lot of topics. As with most topics, nobody really knows what the new administration will try to do. But if they really start limiting H-1Bs (or student visas, or any other kind of visa in an anti-immigrant mood), that could have impact on traffic at BOS, as well as the local economy in general.
 
AviationAddict
Posts: 770
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 2:37 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:17 am

mikegigs wrote:
I could totally see FedEx or UPS at BED. Its relatively close to the city (closer than any other options) and I believe the runways are long enough. Plus it is owned by Massport (at least the civilian part of it), that should make for a smoother move.


The longest runway at BED is only 10 feet longer than ORH (7,011 vs 7,001) so, that's still an issue. On top of that there is no infrastructure currently at BED to support large scale cargo operations; as others of pointed out PVD, MHT and BDL already have those facilities in place.
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:11 am

On top of all other good reasons for not going to BED is this: NIMBYs. The Concord/Lexington/Bedford/Lincoln crowd is as hypocritical as can be, tacitly supporting 'their own' BizJets (some of the loudest around) while shaking their Limp wrists at anything that even sniffs like a commercial enterprise. They'd have their six-year-old kids scrawling 'NO CARGO!!!' signs inside their posh private-school classrooms.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2410
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:39 pm

MHT has been proposed for a big UPS New England operation center.
This would cover BOS area quite well.
Even PVD could take on the extra UPS flights.
Giving UPS the ability to have a small scale BOS operation for Next Day overnight cargo dedicated to the downtown BOS area.

MHT operation for the BOS area could be what Rockford is to Chicagoland area.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
User avatar
mikegigs
Posts: 239
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:03 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:28 pm

chrisnh wrote:
On top of all other good reasons for not going to BED is this: NIMBYs. The Concord/Lexington/Bedford/Lincoln crowd is as hypocritical as can be, tacitly supporting 'their own' BizJets (some of the loudest around) while shaking their Limp wrists at anything that even sniffs like a commercial enterprise. They'd have their six-year-old kids scrawling 'NO CARGO!!!' signs inside their posh private-school classrooms.


I didn't even think about that, but you're totally right :lol: . If Eastie residents complaining aren't enough, the crowed over there will definitely cause giant headaches over at Massport.

In the end, there probably will never be a move to a different airport, and if there is, it won't be for many many years.
Airports: BOS, JAX, JFK, EWR, LGA, CVG, ATL, CLT, DCA, IAD, STT, PVD, ALB, MCO
Aircraft: 733, 735, 73G, 738, 752, 717, A319, A320, MD-88, E190, E175, E145, CRJ-200, CRJ-700, Q400
Airlines: B6, CO, DL, US, NW, WN, DH
...a good start but a long way to go!
 
BDL757
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:08 pm

According to an article in today's USA Today it appears that DL's holiday service to RSW that operates from 12/22 - 1/2 will return on 2/17 and become year round Saturday/Sunday service. Also the flight will go from an E175 to an A319. Nice add to the DL Boston hublet!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94710704/
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:08 pm

BDL757 wrote:
According to an article in today's USA Today it appears that DL's holiday service to RSW that operates from 12/22 - 1/2 will return on 2/17 and become year round Saturday/Sunday service. Also the flight will go from an E175 to an A319. Nice add to the DL Boston hublet!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94710704/


Glad that the route is going year round, but surprised it's only Saturday/Sunday for the busy spring break season. Not only is RSW popular for spring break, it's also the home of the Red Sox spring training field. Seems like it would have made sense to go daily 2/17 thru mid-April with maybe a CR9 or E75, then scaling back to Sat/Sun only on the A319. I think during spring break B6 has 6-7 dailies on the route.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:24 pm

BDL757 wrote:
According to an article in today's USA Today it appears that DL's holiday service to RSW that operates from 12/22 - 1/2 will return on 2/17 and become year round Saturday/Sunday service. Also the flight will go from an E175 to an A319. Nice add to the DL Boston hublet!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94710704/


hublet.... I see what you did there... smart move because you know some on here will decry us calling it a real hub (which even DL state that it is!)

Nice upgauge by DL though...
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
BDL757
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:06 pm

VS4ever wrote:
hublet.... I see what you did there... smart move because you know some on here will decry us calling it a real hub (which even DL state that it is!)

Nice upgauge by DL though...


Exactly! You gotta be careful how you phrase things :D What other destinations do you think they'll add to get to 120ish flights by 2018?
 
BOSMEMFlyer
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:40 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:14 pm

BDL757 wrote:
VS4ever wrote:
hublet.... I see what you did there... smart move because you know some on here will decry us calling it a real hub (which even DL state that it is!)

Nice upgauge by DL though...


Exactly! You gotta be careful how you phrase things :D What other destinations do you think they'll add to get to 120ish flights by 2018?


My name might imply bias, but I know BOS is one of the destinations topping the wishlist down in MEM. I always assumed it was a matter of growing the numbers to lure in B6, but DL could resume this route today with an RJ. Especially now that this is more "hublet" and spoke as opposed to just P2P.
 
aaflyer777
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:20 pm

I wonder if DL will give BOS-PHL a go, anyone know what their gate situation is in PHL? Some other ideas for DL: BOS-SAN, BOS-MSY, BOS-AUS.
 
BDL757
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:43 pm

BOSMEMFlyer wrote:
My name might imply bias, but I know BOS is one of the destinations topping the wishlist down in MEM. I always assumed it was a matter of growing the numbers to lure in B6, but DL could resume this route today with an RJ. Especially now that this is more "hublet" and spoke as opposed to just P2P.


Agreed. I'm surprised we still don't fly this even after the closure of the MEM hub.

aaflyer777 wrote:
I wonder if DL will give BOS-PHL a go, anyone know what their gate situation is in PHL? Some other ideas for DL: BOS-SAN, BOS-MSY, BOS-AUS.


I've always thought that MSY and AUS make sense as they are pretty strong stations for DL. PHL not so sure because of how many flights already operate. SAN is a long flight to a non-hub with JB and AS already flying the route so I'm not sure about that either.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:53 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
I wonder if DL will give BOS-PHL a go, anyone know what their gate situation is in PHL? Some other ideas for DL: BOS-SAN, BOS-MSY, BOS-AUS.


(figures quoted are June 16 to May 15 based)
BOS-AUS will be interesting, I think it's ripe for additional frequency. B6 had it all to themselves, before WN joined the fray in October last year, doubling the available flights and the latest data I put together has 85% loads even with the uptick. Suggests to me, there is more available there and as much as i want B6 to do it, would love some better return times than 11pm..

BOS-SAN another one with possible upticks, running at 87% loads over the year, and pax count outpacing the relative capacity, which suggests demand might be there for more.

BOS-MSY, this one had over 26% more seats over the prior 12 months and still out performed.

None of this obviously determines yields as a result of those, but they certainly appear to be possibilities. PHL was down overall during the period i've looked at, so unless they can stimulate some additional demand from extra flights, might be tough.

Do we think they will go for new destinations or just go for additional frequencies on existing routes.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
User avatar
11725Flyer
Posts: 1453
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:57 pm

BDL757 wrote:
According to an article in today's USA Today it appears that DL's holiday service to RSW that operates from 12/22 - 1/2 will return on 2/17 and become year round Saturday/Sunday service. Also the flight will go from an E175 to an A319. Nice add to the DL Boston hublet!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94710704/


Hublet. I like it.

Delta is smart to continue to build BOS. Once WN moves, it will be interesting to see what Delta does with the additional gates.
 
BDL757
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:42 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
Glad that the route is going year round, but surprised it's only Saturday/Sunday for the busy spring break season. Not only is RSW popular for spring break, it's also the home of the Red Sox spring training field. Seems like it would have made sense to go daily 2/17 thru mid-April with maybe a CR9 or E75, then scaling back to Sat/Sun only on the A319. I think during spring break B6 has 6-7 dailies on the route.


Good point! I thought we would increase flights to RSW during spring training as well
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:12 pm

BDL757 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Glad that the route is going year round, but surprised it's only Saturday/Sunday for the busy spring break season. Not only is RSW popular for spring break, it's also the home of the Red Sox spring training field. Seems like it would have made sense to go daily 2/17 thru mid-April with maybe a CR9 or E75, then scaling back to Sat/Sun only on the A319. I think during spring break B6 has 6-7 dailies on the route.


Good point! I thought we would increase flights to RSW during spring training as well


there's maybe a good reason for why B6 has all those flights and maybe why DL doesn't really want to do too much with it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue_P ... nway_South :)
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
BDL757
Posts: 235
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:49 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:02 pm

VS4ever wrote:
BDL757 wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
Glad that the route is going year round, but surprised it's only Saturday/Sunday for the busy spring break season. Not only is RSW popular for spring break, it's also the home of the Red Sox spring training field. Seems like it would have made sense to go daily 2/17 thru mid-April with maybe a CR9 or E75, then scaling back to Sat/Sun only on the A319. I think during spring break B6 has 6-7 dailies on the route.


Good point! I thought we would increase flights to RSW during spring training as well


there's maybe a good reason for why B6 has all those flights and maybe why DL doesn't really want to do too much with it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue_P ... nway_South :)


That might just have something to do with it! :D
 
tysmith95
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:19 am

Norwegian Air should start Cork-Boston flights now that they have been granted an Irish licence by the US government. That is unless plans have been delayed due to the delay.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:01 pm

tysmith95 wrote:
Norwegian Air should start Cork-Boston flights now that they have been granted an Irish licence by the US government. That is unless plans have been delayed due to the delay.


i suspect they are going to try for a summer 17 start if the aircraft they were planning to use is still available to them from a fleet planning perspective. Lots of interest here to see how this is going to work with WW starting ORK-KEF to funnel potentially to their TATL flights and then DL joining in the BOS-DUB fray next year as well. Lots of capacity going in. There have also been heavy rumors in other threads that DY (or D8, I suspect) want to start EDI-XXX, on a 738, which means BOS could be an option from there and let's not forget next year VS are chiming in with their MAN-BOS addition and MT are upping I think to at least 3 weekly for their seasonal.
DUB is seen as a connecting airport, so direct options from EDI and MAN, might hinder that a bit, but with BHX losing its BHX-JFK option on AA, could funnel additional pax on EI over to DUB, so it might trade off a bit.

In other news, i've parsed out the new England pieces from enilria's weekly OAG thread and put them up on the New England Aviation site to review. Also, all May 16 numbers are now updated, can't wait to see June as that's really going to tell a story as to who was winning at least the butts on seats battle. Next data update should be around 12/15, i'll publish the initial high level stuff as quick as i can, then add the data tables, the good news is, that should now happen a lot quicker as the additional data tables I have been developing are now complete for inbound/outbound and fleet mix. Massport should report their November numbers around the same time maybe a couple of days later.

OAG Report link: http://awhitelocks.wixsite.com/newenglandaero/oagreport

A bit going on here this week with 9K loading their summer schedule and a few bits and pieces elsewhere. There are also previous weeks info going back a couple of months if you want to check on something you may have missed.

No more travel for me this year, so I won't be heading down to BOS any time soon :(... have a great Christmas and Holiday season folks.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
aaflyer777
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Norwegian to open a 737 pilot base in BOS next year, no word on destinations but looks like expansion is coming!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94986022/
 
User001
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:20 pm

The pilot base is going to be in PVD, not BOS.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:31 pm

aaflyer777 wrote:
Norwegian to open a 737 pilot base in BOS next year, no word on destinations but looks like expansion is coming!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94986022/


Just was reading through this thread of increases for next summer for DY's LGW-US routes:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1349321

BOS is the only station in the US served by DY from LGW not listed as being increased, which kind of caught me off guard. I thought this route was doing very well? Curious others thoughts..
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:22 pm

clrd4t8koff wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
Norwegian to open a 737 pilot base in BOS next year, no word on destinations but looks like expansion is coming!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94986022/


Just was reading through this thread of increases for next summer for DY's LGW-US routes:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1349321

BOS is the only station in the US served by DY from LGW not listed as being increased, which kind of caught me off guard. I thought this route was doing very well? Curious others thoughts..


I think DY is going to expand in BOS with the 738's for now with ORK and EDI. I must admit I share your surprise with not moving from 4 weekly to at least daily, but I wonder if the schedules would just not allow it. (originally the week frequency for LGW-BOS was shared with CPH and OSL), the numbers coming out of the CAA in England do suggest from a butts on seats perspective the LGW flights are doing pretty well, so I do think it's only a matter of time, especially if they are going to open a station here, however what's interesting is the talk that the station might be PVD not BOS, just like SWF in New York rather than JFK, sounds like they are going to try a different strategy, went into the big arenas to get their name known on the ground, then bring on the secondaries to save the money and support the cheaper fares. Kind of like a loss leader strategy, as others have said on different threads, it's time to get the popcorn, this is going to get really interesting. While the US3 are dialing back on their capacity TATL to the UK and beyond DY or D8 are looking to stimulate demand potentially from local markets.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
clrd4t8koff
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:57 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:31 pm

VS4ever wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
aaflyer777 wrote:
Norwegian to open a 737 pilot base in BOS next year, no word on destinations but looks like expansion is coming!

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/fl ... /94986022/


Just was reading through this thread of increases for next summer for DY's LGW-US routes:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1349321

BOS is the only station in the US served by DY from LGW not listed as being increased, which kind of caught me off guard. I thought this route was doing very well? Curious others thoughts..


I think DY is going to expand in BOS with the 738's for now with ORK and EDI. I must admit I share your surprise with not moving from 4 weekly to at least daily, but I wonder if the schedules would just not allow it. (originally the week frequency for LGW-BOS was shared with CPH and OSL), the numbers coming out of the CAA in England do suggest from a butts on seats perspective the LGW flights are doing pretty well, so I do think it's only a matter of time, especially if they are going to open a station here, however what's interesting is the talk that the station might be PVD not BOS, just like SWF in New York rather than JFK, sounds like they are going to try a different strategy, went into the big arenas to get their name known on the ground, then bring on the secondaries to save the money and support the cheaper fares. Kind of like a loss leader strategy, as others have said on different threads, it's time to get the popcorn, this is going to get really interesting. While the US3 are dialing back on their capacity TATL to the UK and beyond DY or D8 are looking to stimulate demand potentially from local markets.


DY's current schedule @ BOS is 4x weekly LGW, 2x weekly OSL and 1x weekly CPH, correct? I wish DY would shift the 1x weekly CPH to LGW making it 5x weekly LGW. Daily would be most competitive.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:55 pm

[\quote] DY's current schedule @ BOS is 4x weekly LGW, 2x weekly OSL and 1x weekly CPH, correct? I wish DY would shift the 1x weekly CPH to LGW making it 5x weekly LGW. Daily would be most competitive.[/quote]

I have to believe LGW can support daily at least seasonally April through September, for an airline that let's face it couldn't really care about being at LHR at the moment, could they ship 2,000 folks a week out of there. assuming they use the 789 for the purpose. I got to say it's possible. handing CPH back over to SK/PBQ I am not sure is going to work in DY's eyes. In May SK+DY still couldn't fill SK's special 80 seater 737 on a daily basis if they put them all over there. June and beyond will tell whether CPH is going to work with both on the route.

It's been said many a time that the 787 was supposed to be a hub buster. So far DY seems to be the one trying to prove that statement.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10369
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:39 pm

VS4ever wrote:
I have to believe LGW can support daily at least seasonally April through September, for an airline that let's face it couldn't really care about being at LHR at the moment, could they ship 2,000 folks a week out of there. assuming they use the 789 for the purpose. I got to say it's possible.

Given how cheap the fares to London are from Boston, I'm not sure this is a market DY wants to be throwing more capacity at. I just bought tickets for my family to go to London over Christmas. Both BA and VS were selling tickets in the $500 range, all inclusive. DY and all other LCC's were far more expensive. That's a clear sign that a) too much capacity, and b) "Network" carriers can drive down prices lower than the LCC's.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10369
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:59 pm

User001 wrote:
The pilot base is going to be in PVD, not BOS.

That goes against this article that came out today.
http://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2 ... with-pease
Looks like Pease is the the place.
 
User avatar
VS4ever
Posts: 2593
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:03 am

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
User001 wrote:
The pilot base is going to be in PVD, not BOS.

That goes against this article that came out today.
http://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2 ... with-pease
Looks like Pease is the the place.


i am sure DY is negotiating with both PVD and PSM to get the best deal for them, so not sure it's a done deal either way..

That said and I will admit not having been to either PVD or PSM for a flight, does PVD have better infrastructure to handle international flights, considering Condor (although now gone) and others such as S4 have used PVD for that purpose. If PSM is selected, would they need any ramping up to handle 18 weekly, which let's face it is only 2 and a bit per day, but still a big change from 0 they have now.
That feeling when you sit at the end of a runway, brakes are released and the raw power takes over. Now that is a thing of beauty and it never gets old.
 
tysmith95
Posts: 103
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Re: Boston Aviation - Part 12

Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:33 pm

PSM only has one gate. I'd assume that Portsmouth would need a terminal expansion in order to handle the added volume of commercial flights. Allegiant still flies there but the new service will more than double the number of flights out of that airport. Providence would need no expansions, the airport has actually seen a decline in passengers since Southwest started operations at Logan.

PVD is also expanding their main runway with an expected opening in 2017.

Also is there any chance that Norwegian could create some fifth freedom routes. I'd love to see the carrier fly to Vancouver. A 787 to Brazil would also be a great addition to Boston area aviation.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos