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Qatara340
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LAMIA RJ85 crashes in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:23 am

Breaking: A plane carying the Brazilian national football team has gone missing in Columbia. 80 people were onboard.

Sources: All over the news
Last edited by qf789 on Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: updated title to reflect current situation
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
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Qatara340
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:30 am

The Associated Press calls it a "crash" with 72 on board in Colombia.
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
dmstorm22
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:34 am

Qatara340 wrote:
Breaking: A plane carying the Brazilian national football team has gone missing in Columbia. 80 people were onboard.

Sources: All over the news


Lot of updates, but a small correction: it does not seem to be the Brazilian National football team, but a team in their 1st division (ie: club team).
 
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A330freak
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:39 am

Flightradar24 is saying it is a LAMIA Bolivia RJ85
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statu ... 6885421056
 
Summa767
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:39 am

It would seem that the plane declared an emergency and would have crashed on approach to Medellín airport (MDE).


The emergency has been variously reported as low fuel or electrical.

The flight had taken off from Santa Cruz in Bolivia and was transporting the football team Chapecoense that was travelling to Medellin to play the final of the Southamerican Cup

The airplane, an Avro RJ-85 is registered as CP-2933.
Last edited by Summa767 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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caoimhin
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:06 am

This is not good news. Thoughts and prayers with the families of those aboard.

Seems other sources are confirming RJ85.
 
Braniff747SP
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:07 am

Looks like it was Chapecoense, a first division team in Brasil on their way to the first leg of the Copa Sudamericana final.

No news yet on potential causes.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
flyboynk
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:07 am

LAMIA airline from Venezuela, RJ-85 from Bolivia (ViruViru) crashed south/ southeast of SKRG (Medellin Rionegro Jose Maria Cordoba Int'l airport) this evening. It was carrying the Brazilian football team Chapecoense coming to Medellin to play on Wednesday.

Reported on Caracol news it crashed into Cerro El Gordo between La Ceja and La Union (due south/southeast of airport). News states 72 pax onboard plus crew of 9, local news reporting survivors being transported to local hospitals in La Ceja and Llanogrande.

Aircraft was just over 17 years old first flown with Mesaba, then Cityjet and for the last few years with LAMIA.

Link to local news in Colombia
http://noticias.caracoltv.com/colombia/avion-que-transportaba-al-equipo-chapecoense-de-brasil-se-encuentra-desaparecido
Flyboynk
 
YKM97Y
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:13 am

Flightradar24 site reporting RJ-85, registration CP-2933

http://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-bae146-2348.htm
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:16 am

At least there's word of survivors.

Still, very sad
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
SCQ83
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:17 am

According to "O Globo" (Brazilian media), there are no fatalities.

http://oglobo.globo.com/mundo/aviao-com ... a-20556992

De acordo com informações locais, não há relatos de mortos.
 
Summa767
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:18 am

Local Media:
http://www.elcolombiano.com/antioquia/a ... -EF5465273

http://caracol.com.co/emisora/2016/11/2 ... 98997.html

The plane undertook some holding circuits prior to attempting an approach.However, there were no more than 15 minutes between starting to circuit and the Flightradar trace disappearing.
I can quite believe that the plane could have been on a critical fuel situation. It seems to me that a 4.5 hour flight for a full RJ85.

Would be good to know the weather at 0230/0300Z at SKRG. Could this have added a delay in the approach?
 
flyboynk
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:22 am

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/airc ... 3/#bbef1b9

Flight playback of LMI2933

Looks like just North of Abejorral
Flyboynk
 
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Coal
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:23 am

Nxt Flts: SQ SIN-KIX | HD UKB-CTS | NH CTS-NRT | SQ NRT-SIN | AK SIN-DPS-SIN
 
Georgetown
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:28 am

Yikes, fingers crossed waiting for more news.
Let's go Hoyas!
 
BestWestern
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:31 am

I've flown on that aircraft plenty of times when with CityJet.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Summa767
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:36 am

1st official statement from MDE airport: https://twitter.com/AeropuertoMDE/statu ... 7269017601

States that 6 survivors are being reported and that they are trying to access the area of the crash, which is difficult to access.
Mentions electrical fault declared by the crew of the RJ85.
 
gabo787
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:41 am

First images. Doesn't look good at all

https://mobile.twitter.com/Fcopari/stat ... 0138908672
 
pipeafcr
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:51 am

This airline specialises in transporting football teams all over South America. The Argentinian and Venezuelan national football teams have used this very same aircraft to fly to Brazil and BAQ respectively to play their matches.

Looking at the pics it's hard to believe that there were survivors at all, hoping for the best still. Thankfully the Colombian authorities are very professional and well equipped for this kind of disasters.
Felipe Carrillo
 
Alexdk
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:12 am

pipeafcr wrote:
This airline specialises in transporting football teams all over South America. The Argentinian and Venezuelan national football teams have used this very same aircraft to fly to Brazil and BAQ respectively to play their matches.

Looking at the pics it's hard to believe that there were survivors at all, hoping for the best still. Thankfully the Colombian authorities are very professional and well equipped for this kind of disasters.


Hard to believe that multimillionaire players of the Argentina national team would fly such an airline, not even non-stop (to BAQ).
 
pipeafcr
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:23 am

Alexdk wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:
Hard to believe that multimillionaire players of the Argentina national team would fly such an airline, not even non-stop (to BAQ).


The Argentinian national team flew on this plane to Belo Horizonte to play against Brazil (that was around November 10). It was the Venezuelan national that also flew on this plane to BAQ.

Colombia's Atletico Nacional (currently #1 in South America) has also recently flown on this airline, but not sure if on the same plane that crashed.
Felipe Carrillo
 
Eirules
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:44 am

What is the range for a full RJ 85? It seems to me 4.5 hours seems a long flight
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
AirbusA6
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:55 am

it's the bus to stansted (now renamed National Express a6 to ruin my username)
 
traindoc
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:04 am

Hopefully not another cycle of 3 crashes beginning!
 
Olddog
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:41 am

On huffpost website they use an A380 picture for that news :)
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:58 am

I'm just reading that 25 bodies have been recovered, and five rescued alive.

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/803516921798737920
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:19 am

Make that 6:

Aerocivil Colombia reports six occupants have survived the Avro RJ85 accident near Medellin; 2 crew and 4 passengers.


https://twitter.com/AviationSafety/stat ... 1841293312
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Summa767
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:41 am

It is sadly confirmed that 76 people died in this crash.
Only 5 people have survived. Although initial reports stated 6 survivors, one of them died whilst being treated at the scene.

Authorities will wait till first light to start the recovery.
 
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blackbox67
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:52 am

Jacdec reports that the Avro RJ-85 in the assumed configuration with 72 passengers was unable to fly the 1600 NM trip because of range limitations
Image
http://www.jacdec.de/2016/11/29/2016-11-28-lamia-avro-rj-85-crashed-near-medellin-with-81-on-board/
 
Eirules
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:11 am

Sadly to me this is looking like pilot error / lack of fuel. As I said above, I didn't think the avro had the range to make this flight in the first place. If this turns out to be true it's an unforgivable mistake
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:43 am

Eirules wrote:
Sadly to me this is looking like pilot error / lack of fuel. As I said above, I didn't think the avro had the range to make this flight in the first place. If this turns out to be true it's an unforgivable mistake

Let's be careful about speculation this early (yes, I know, that's basically what this site lives to do!), because there are so many factors at play in any incident or accident. Statistically speaking, you're correct, the numbers point heavily to pilot error playing either a predominant role or a contributory role in any aviation accident in the past 30+ years. I'm a little more in favor of letting the dust settle and get some actual reports on survivors and casualties before speculating on the cause and factors. If the reports are accurate and there are numerous casualties, then it's likely the survivors have suffered some serious injuries. My thoughts are with them and their families.
 
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TheLion
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:51 am

So sad. Thoughts with everyone affected, their families and friends :(
 
longhaul67
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:31 am

According to Brazilian TV channel Globo's website:

The Chapecoense team comes from the city of Chapeco in the state of Santa Catarina in southern Brazil.
The Brazilian Aviation Authority would not allow a direct flight to Medellin on a chartered plane from Chapeco. The flight took off from Guarulhos (GRU) in Sao Paulo, on Monday, and made a technical stop in Santa Cruz de La Sierra, Bolivia.

http://oglobo.globo.com/esportes/aviao- ... s-20556992
 
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E2
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:48 am

The flight didn't make a technical stop in Santa Cruz, the delegation flew commercially from GRU on Boliviana de Aviación on a different aircraft and boarded the accident flight in Santa Cruz.

The reason the charter was refused was that for the origin and destination requested the company had to be either Brazilian or Colombian.
I had been told that the training procedure with cats was difficult. It’s not. Mine had me trained in two days. (Bill Dana)
 
Etheereal
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:48 am

Question: Can anyone confirm me if on the FDR it's stored/displayed if fuel is being thrown out of the plane for an emergency landing?
 
Eirules
Posts: 1949
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:13 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Eirules wrote:
Sadly to me this is looking like pilot error / lack of fuel. As I said above, I didn't think the avro had the range to make this flight in the first place. If this turns out to be true it's an unforgivable mistake

Let's be careful about speculation this early (yes, I know, that's basically what this site lives to do!), because there are so many factors at play in any incident or accident. Statistically speaking, you're correct, the numbers point heavily to pilot error playing either a predominant role or a contributory role in any aviation accident in the past 30+ years. I'm a little more in favor of letting the dust settle and get some actual reports on survivors and casualties before speculating on the cause and factors. If the reports are accurate and there are numerous casualties, then it's likely the survivors have suffered some serious injuries. My thoughts are with them and their families.


Agreed. It's purely speculation at this point. But no fire upon crash, reports suggesting the aircraft was at the very edge of its range, a local mayor saying the aircraft ran out of fuel... Seems to point in only one direction, initially anyway

RIP to all those souls
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
PATristar
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:20 pm

The Chapecoense team boarded in GRU in a commercial flight to Santa Cru de la Sierra in Bolivia, as Lamia don't have 5th Freedon rights in Brazil they weren't able to do Brazil - Colombia even in a charter basis. In Santa Cruz de La Sierre the team boarded a RJ-85 from Lamia heading to Medellin. Appears that was an electrical situation, the ilot dropped the fuel to makea forced landing.

76 dead and 5 survived.
 
a320fan
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:23 pm

Etheereal wrote:
Question: Can anyone confirm me if on the FDR it's stored/displayed if fuel is being thrown out of the plane for an emergency landing?

The RJ85 doesn't have fuel dumping capabilities.
A319, A320, A321, A330-200, A350-900, A380, 737-700, 737-800, 777-200ER, 777-300, 777-300ER, 787-8, Q300, Q400
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:26 pm

A sad day for Brazil's football. :frown:


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Etheereal
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:28 pm

a320fan wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
Question: Can anyone confirm me if on the FDR it's stored/displayed if fuel is being thrown out of the plane for an emergency landing?

The RJ85 doesn't have fuel dumping capabilities.


I see, but in other aircraft that does have the capabilities, is it displayed?
 
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OA940
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:34 pm

RIP to the dead, but I have to say that if this was limited range, it was a really stupid mistake.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
Eirules
Posts: 1949
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:48 pm

Is it possible that a lack of fuel could of led to electrical problems?
The way you cut your meat reflects the way you live....
 
Summa767
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:48 pm

At 4.40 am local time, when no more survivors were assumed rescuers heard the voice of a person within the wreckage. It took 20 minutes to bring them out of them out and carried by stretcher quite a distance on a muddy path to an ambulance.
Footage from the crash site: http://www.elcolombiano.com/antioquia/a ... -LF5465782
 
Hagic
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:11 pm

blackbox67 wrote:
Jacdec reports that the Avro RJ-85 in the assumed configuration with 72 passengers was unable to fly the 1600 NM trip because of range limitations
Image
http://www.jacdec.de/2016/11/29/2016-11-28-lamia-avro-rj-85-crashed-near-medellin-with-81-on-board/


This plane had already flown CBB-MDE on October 28. This route is only 86 nm shorter, but CBB is at 8.400 ft above sea level!. Probably the take off weight restrictions due to altitude limited the payload so the plane was able to fly the route alright.

VVI lies at 1240 ft above sea level. There's no weight limitations on take off except the MTOW. By the plot you posted, the pilot really pushed the plane to the limit accounting for the 72 people on board plus luggage.
There's only one freedom of the press: The freedom of the survivors - (G. Arciniegas)
 
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TheLark
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:13 pm

Etheereal wrote:
a320fan wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
Question: Can anyone confirm me if on the FDR it's stored/displayed if fuel is being thrown out of the plane for an emergency landing?

The RJ85 doesn't have fuel dumping capabilities.


I see, but in other aircraft that does have the capabilities, is it displayed?


The FDR does not display anything, it records data. ICAO Annex 6 Appendix 8 (http://code7700.com/pdfs/icao_annex_6_part_i.pdf) specifies what parameters have to be recorded. It does not mention fuel dumping, but possibly some modern FDRs record it anyway.
Night's candles are burnt out, and jocund day stands tiptoe on the misty mountain tops
 
Etheereal
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:20 pm

TheLark wrote:
Etheereal wrote:
a320fan wrote:
The RJ85 doesn't have fuel dumping capabilities.


I see, but in other aircraft that does have the capabilities, is it displayed?


The FDR does not display anything, it records data. ICAO Annex 6 Appendix 8 (http://code7700.com/pdfs/icao_annex_6_part_i.pdf) specifies what parameters have to be recorded. It does not mention fuel dumping, but possibly some modern FDRs record it anyway.


I know FDR doesnt display, what i meant was if the data recorded included it. Then it comes this question: If a plane is losing fuel, be it for leaking or other issue, is the FDR even able to catch it?
 
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Buyantukhaa
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:35 pm

They crashed near the VOR beacon on El Gordo mountain. FR24 shows that they entered a holding pattern, flew two circuits, and then started descending. It seems the signal stopped at about FL160ish, not sure if that was impact altitude or the signal stopped before impact.

Image

Image
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:38 pm

New site... How do I post images that are not on the web? *annoyed* If you click on the links and open as new tab they may work still.

Last recorded speed was 142 kts at 15550 ft.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:52 pm

OK someone else did it already:

Image
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
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Revelation
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Re: BREAKING: Plane missing in Colombia

Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:53 pm

Buyantukhaa wrote:
New site... How do I post images that are not on the web? *annoyed* If you click on the links and open as new tab they may work still.

Last recorded speed was 142 kts at 15550 ft.


New or old site could not post pictures in-line, they always need to be on the web somewhere. You can use sites like tinypic.com or imgur.com to host the images. I think a.net's album feature gives you a few MB of storage to host pictures too, but I could be wrong about that.
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