Qatar Airways has announced it's plans to make direct flights from Doha, Qatar to Canberra, Australia in 2017-18. The dates aren't confirmed but it will be Canberra's 2nd flight in and out of Australia along side Singapore Airlines.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-11-29/canberra-airport-international-flights-qatar-airways/8073550

Gemuser wrote:

Nowhere in that article does it say that the QR flight is direct. Remembering that to an airline "direct does NOT equal non-stop". I assume it would be a direct flight via an intermediate point as I seriously doubt that a B777 can get out of CBR non stop to DOH. SQ operate non stop CBR-SIN with a B772 but DOH is almost twice as far.

Gemuser

I doubt it'll be nonstop, and not necessarily on a 772. Depending on the stop, a 789 could work.

I can see it being DOH-CBR-SYD-DOH.

It makes sense to add additional capacity into SYD, which is said to be doing very well for QR, and this is a way of getting around the bi-lateral restrictions.

Non-stop DOH-CBR-DOH seems harder to see paying off but lets wait and see. QR love their announcements but sometimes things drag out and decisions change.

Quoting Stephen Byron, the Managing Director of Canberra Airport in a press conference on Tuesday:

"They'll be direct to Doha. So, in the same way that the flights from Dublin will be direct to Doha, the flights from Las Vegas and from Canberra and Santiago will all be direct to Doha".

DeltaB717 wrote:

Quoting Stephen Byron, the Managing Director of Canberra Airport in a press conference on Tuesday:

"They'll be direct to Doha. So, in the same way that the flights from Dublin will be direct to Doha, the flights from Las Vegas and from Canberra and Santiago will all be direct to Doha".

Gemuser wrote:

Nowhere in that article does it say that the QR flight is direct. Remembering that to an airline "direct does NOT equal non-stop". I assume it would be a direct flight via an intermediate point as I seriously doubt that a B777 can get out of CBR non stop to DOH. SQ operate non stop CBR-SIN with a B772 but DOH is almost twice as far.

Gemuser

The aircraft will likely be the A350, according to the press conference.

DFW789ER wrote:

I doubt it'll be nonstop, and not necessarily on a 772. Depending on the stop, a 789 could work.

A 777-300ER did a non-stop DOH-CBR flight in December 2014, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj3Pf-wu5ME,
Qatar Airways Boeing 777-300ER - Golden Hour Landing at Canberra Airport, SydneyAirportSpotter, Dec 29, 2014.

Am I going to be the first to say that this route will unquestionably bleed red ink? Madness.

RWY 17/35 is 3283 metres or 10770 ft, plenty of distance to get something nonstop to Doha. I would expect it to be a 350, or possibly a 77L to start with. Couldn't see it more than 3 p/w, unless it is linked through another Australian port though.

winginit wrote:

Am I going to be the first to say that this route will unquestionably bleed red ink? Madness.

Well, maybe.

I don't know enough about it to say that it is "madness" - I don't know the frequency or times, I don't know if Qatar will have any deals for feed from other places. I don't know if it will tag on to SYD which might make the service a bit more attractive for some.

And who knows what it might provoke? It might even be the kick in the arse that Air New Zealand seems to need to start AKL-CBR.

I guess I prefer to wait and see rather than rush to judgement, but my hope is that it does well.

mariner

mariner wrote:

winginit wrote:

Am I going to be the first to say that this route will unquestionably bleed red ink? Madness.

Well, maybe.

I don't know enough about it to say that it is "madness" - I don't know the frequency or times, I don't know if Qatar will have any deals for feed from other places. I don't know if it will tag on to SYD which might make the service a bit more attractive for some.

And who knows what it might provoke? It might even be the kick in the arse that Air New Zealand seems to need to start AKL-CBR.

I guess I prefer to wait and see rather than rush to judgement, but my hope is that it does well.


mariner

I agree! Too much negativity on Anet these days. Let's just be excited for a new route, and aircraft into CBR. It's not like they will ruin the cooperative landscape with this move.

I do believe QR has a significant freight custom in AU. They used to often fly & road freight ex-MEL to PER to uplift ex-MEL as they didn't have the capacity out of MEL. Not certain if this still occurs with ADL closer. Perhaps with SYD being an 380 (hardly a freight hauler) over flow cargo can be roaded to CBR? The same for MEL should it ever be upgauged to a 380.

Cargo combined with a subsidy from CBR airport could make this route work ok.

Some comments have been quick to dismiss this route's profitability. It is easy to underestimate the significance of the government-generated premium fare international traffic originating in Canberra. Combine that with a comparatively well-paid population with a propensity for international holiday travel and the outrageous international add-on fares charged by domestic airlines for connections to international fights from SYD and MEL, and you may be surprised at demand. Connecting via SYD or MEL also adds hours to an international trip from or to CBR. Do not be surprised if QF+EK and VA+EY lose a significant part of their business from CBR to the Middle East and Europe.

Question for all...does Australia govt travel policy have anything similar to the Fly America Act which in turn would force Aussie officials into using QF or VA or their codeshared flight to the furthest point wherever possible ?

If there is something in place then wouldn't the purpose of QR getting a lot of premium J class traffic on this route be irrelevant due to the law of the land in Australia?

jupiter2 wrote:

RWY 17/35 is 3283 metres or 10770 ft, plenty of distance to get something nonstop to Doha.

The runway is long, but it also has terrain off both ends, is at 1900' elevation, and is often hot. A 77W can hardly even break 300 tonnes TOW in nil wind, 15°C off 35.

I cannot see this route lasting. What about Brisbane instead?

QR cannot increase flights to SYD, MEL, PER, without stopping at another secondary AUS city. QR has used all its bilaterals to AUS--but they do have unlimited frequencies to cities other SYD, BNE, MEL, and PER.

behramjee wrote:

Question for all...does Australia govt travel policy have anything similar to the Fly America Act which in turn would force Aussie officials into using QF or VA or their codeshared flight to the furthest point wherever possible ?

No it doesn't. But it does have a panel of airlines who offer the government preferential rates. Qatar is on the panel.

https://www.finance.gov.au/procurement/ ... l#airlines

Qatara340 wrote:

QR cannot increase flights to SYD, MEL, PER, without stopping at another secondary AUS city. QR has used all its bilaterals to AUS--but they do have unlimited frequencies to cities other SYD, BNE, MEL, and PER.

That's currently under review and is expected to be expanded, allowing service to BNE.

BNEFlyer wrote:

Qatara340 wrote:

QR cannot increase flights to SYD, MEL, PER, without stopping at another secondary AUS city. QR has used all its bilaterals to AUS--but they do have unlimited frequencies to cities other SYD, BNE, MEL, and PER.

That's currently under review and is expected to be expanded, allowing service to BNE.

I hope so; I would love to visit BNE directly from here!

CBR by itself seems to be just a fantasy. It is not CBR-DOH, it is CBR-DUHH!

A similar route would be DOH-YOW, Ottawa, Canada. Just like Canberra is served from Singapore, Ottawa is served from London, and those are about the same distance flights. But SIN-CBR is just 4 x week, and YOW is daily in the Summer and gets FRA seasonal too. DOH-YOW is also almost a couple of hours shorter than DOH-CBR. Ottawa has triple the population of Canberra. YOW would be much more viable except Canada does not want QR. There would be plenty of Middle East, India and Pakistan traffic to fill a QR flight.

bill142 wrote:

behramjee wrote:

Question for all...does Australia govt travel policy have anything similar to the Fly America Act which in turn would force Aussie officials into using QF or VA or their codeshared flight to the furthest point wherever possible ?

No it doesn't. But it does have a panel of airlines who offer the government preferential rates. Qatar is on the panel.

https://www.finance.gov.au/procurement/ ... l#airlines

This link has is guide to air travel for Commonwealth staff, with two embedded pdf links - one for domestic, one for international, and also the use of business class.

There's some emphasis on "Best Fare of the Day" - meaning total value including all ancillaries (and presumably, a connecting leg to SYD) - and if Qatar in CBR is conscious of that, it could probably do okay from Commonwealth travel.

mariner

VapourTrails wrote:

DFW789ER wrote:

I doubt it'll be nonstop, and not necessarily on a 772. Depending on the stop, a 789 could work.

A 777-300ER did a non-stop DOH-CBR flight in December 2014, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj3Pf-wu5ME,
Qatar Airways Boeing 777-300ER - Golden Hour Landing at Canberra Airport, SydneyAirportSpotter, Dec 29, 2014.

I know QR has planes that can make the flight nonstop, my question is can they put butts in enough seats to make a nonstop work, even if not daily.

DFW789ER wrote:

I know QR has planes that can make the flight nonstop, my question is can they put butts in enough seats to make a nonstop work, even if not daily.

It's the same question that everyone has.

Its the same question that was asked about Singapore's new Canberra service, and - at least anecdotally - that seems to be doing okay. Certainly, it has been well-received locally.

The Canberra Times puts a good case for CBR to be a SYD alternate:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment ... szk9c.html

"An opportunity too good to miss for Qatar Airways

While Qatar's major focus in Australia is likely to remain the established gateway destinations of Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne, Canberra offers it significant potential. It's relatively close to Sydney without any of the drawbacks that characterise Mascot airport such as congestion, limited landing slots at peak times, and high rents and charges. It's also curfew-free. Even Canberra's hotel accommodation – essential tourist infrastructure that's lagged well behind Sydney in terms of quality and quantity – has improved markedly in recent years. And there's more coming on line.

Since no one - here - has the answer to your question, there's only one way to find out.

mariner

mariner wrote:

DFW789ER wrote:

I know QR has planes that can make the flight nonstop, my question is can they put butts in enough seats to make a nonstop work, even if not daily.

It's the same question that everyone has.

Its the same question that was asked about Singapore's new Canberra service, and - at least anecdotally - that seems to be doing okay. Certainly, it has been well-received locally.

The Canberra Times puts a good case for CBR to be a SYD alternate:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment ... szk9c.html

"An opportunity too good to miss for Qatar Airways

While Qatar's major focus in Australia is likely to remain the established gateway destinations of Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne, Canberra offers it significant potential. It's relatively close to Sydney without any of the drawbacks that characterise Mascot airport such as congestion, limited landing slots at peak times, and high rents and charges. It's also curfew-free. Even Canberra's hotel accommodation – essential tourist infrastructure that's lagged well behind Sydney in terms of quality and quantity – has improved markedly in recent years. And there's more coming on line.

Since no one - here - has the answer to your question, there's only one way to find out.

mariner

Are there any figures for the WLG-CBR portion of the SQ flight? I'd expect it would contribute to SQ's numbers. I personally would like to see the CBR service succeed.

Qatara340 wrote:

QR cannot increase flights to SYD, MEL, PER, without stopping at another secondary AUS city. QR has used all its bilaterals to AUS--but they do have unlimited frequencies to cities other SYD, BNE, MEL, and PER.

They also can't add BNE without dropping one of SYD, MEL or PER as the current bilateral only permits 21 return services per week. Despite all the chatter, the 'agreement' signed by Australia and Qatar a week or two ago does NOT provide any additional capacity nor any other actual changes to the bilateral, only a framework for future negotiations.

DFW789ER wrote:

I know QR has planes that can make the flight nonstop, my question is can they put butts in enough seats to make a nonstop work, even if not daily.

Thanks for your clarification here, yes. Good question.

CBR have got what they wanted, more international flights, and I for one am prepared to wait and see how QR go with this, and SQ for that matter.

It is better to try and fail, than not to have tried it at all, having made a business decision I would say with enough forethought (they've done their homework) to go ahead with the route/s in the first place.

As mentioned, the curfew-free airport, the less busy and less crowded CBR, and the freight aspects and the road link and proximity to SYD with regard to these are defnitely are plusses in that.

VapourTrails wrote:

the curfew-free airport, the less busy and less crowded CBR, and the freight aspects and the road link and proximity to SYD with regard to these are defnitely are plusses in that.

I think the freight element was probably one of CBR's higher priorities, as they've been working towards a freight hub for many years - the anticipated 'late evening' schedule doesn't lend itself well to inbound connections to SYD, MEL or BNE (unless QF has something up its sleeve), but does lend itself reasonably well to a convoy of trucks heading up and down the highway.

Let's not overstate freight as a component of viable routes. In a few cases, it makes a difference. But a route that has 20% of its revenue underfloor is just outstanding. Freight will not make any terrible route work.

DFW789ER wrote:

Are there any figures for the WLG-CBR portion of the SQ flight? I'd expect it would contribute to SQ's numbers. I personally would like to see the CBR service succeed.

BITRE stats are only available up to August so far, so there's a couple of months' wait for the first stats.

Latest news is CBR could be announced in coming months by QR, tipped to begin in February 18

http://www.smh.com.au/act-news/canberra ... uchfc.html

In another article it has mentioned that QR's CBR service would be a tag on from a second daily SYD service. They are also planning a second daily to MEL as well

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct= ... WOrIU8bexQ