flyPIT wrote:
Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.
Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
flyPIT wrote:
AaronPGH wrote:Sounds like Lufthansa is following Condor to San Diego starting next year. Maybe that could play out here as well?
pgh234 wrote:flyPIT wrote:
Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.
flyPIT wrote:AaronPGH wrote:Sounds like Lufthansa is following Condor to San Diego starting next year. Maybe that could play out here as well?
I doubt it; I'm more interested to see Condor's schedule next year. Unlike some other US cities Condor's 2018 PIT schedule is not yet viewable. Maybe they will release details tomorrow to coincide with the inaugural flight.pgh234 wrote:flyPIT wrote:
Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.
What I found interesting is OneJet mentioned Southwest Airlines in their own press release. How often does an airline mention a competing airline in a press release? But sounds like the timing of the flights will complement the WN flight.
fsafsx wrote:When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.
Midwestindy wrote:fsafsx wrote:When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.
PIT-MCO/SFB is served by 5 carriers, so not much of a hole
pitbosflyer wrote:Midwestindy wrote:fsafsx wrote:When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.
PIT-MCO/SFB is served by 5 carriers, so not much of a hole
If anything we should be pushing B6 to add PIT-LAX. They do, after all, already serve BUF-LAX.
pitbosflyer wrote:ConcourseZ wrote:pitbosflyer wrote:
If anything we should be pushing B6 to add PIT-LAX. They do, after all, already serve BUF-LAX.
PIT - SFO would be good.
flyPIT wrote:The KEF, FRA, and CDG flights all landed one after the other. That's WOW Air in front of Condor:
pgh234 wrote:flyPIT wrote:The KEF, FRA, and CDG flights all landed one after the other. That's WOW Air in front of Condor:
I have been curious how customs (with a presumably limited staffing) would handle three loaded flights arriving within 20 minutes of each other on a busy Friday afternoon. Whatever it is...it can't be worse than EWR/JFK/etc.
Flaps wrote:Customs itself was fine. In fact they did a surprisingly good job. On the ACAA end of things not so much. As feared, the transit setup coming out of customs was a complete disaster. Customs was able to process passengers much faster than the transit system could take them away which resulted in major backups. Customs actually had to stop processing as they ran out of room for people on the transit end. The ACAA is going to have to bite the bullet and dedicate one whole train to customs during that arrival period. This is an agency that has no problem cramming everyone onto one train after 2300 to save electricity. Yet they won't dedicate one train to serving the international pax that they have spent a fortune recruiting. Typical ACAA all flash and talk but no substance when it comes time to deliver.
pgh234 wrote:Flaps wrote:Customs itself was fine. In fact they did a surprisingly good job. On the ACAA end of things not so much. As feared, the transit setup coming out of customs was a complete disaster. Customs was able to process passengers much faster than the transit system could take them away which resulted in major backups. Customs actually had to stop processing as they ran out of room for people on the transit end. The ACAA is going to have to bite the bullet and dedicate one whole train to customs during that arrival period. This is an agency that has no problem cramming everyone onto one train after 2300 to save electricity. Yet they won't dedicate one train to serving the international pax that they have spent a fortune recruiting. Typical ACAA all flash and talk but no substance when it comes time to deliver.
Thanks for the interesting and unexpected observation. Maybe they can dedicate 2 out of the 3 cars? (The still need much capacity for departing dom/intl flights and arriving dom flights during this period though...can't see them giving up a whole train) Perhaps have a shuttle bus on standby for these periods to wisk people over to landside? At least ACAA delivered the ability to not go through security again after arrival...that was absolutely asinine to do in the post 9/11 setup.
pitbosflyer wrote:Midwestindy wrote:fsafsx wrote:When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.
PIT-MCO/SFB is served by 5 carriers, so not much of a hole
If anything we should be pushing B6 to add PIT-LAX. They do, after all, already serve BUF-LAX.
Cush wrote:and surprisingly, the cheapest option was always from Latrobe (not to mention savings from free parking). And while it is about an hour drive to LBE compared to 15-20 mins to PIT,
phluser wrote:Cush wrote:and surprisingly, the cheapest option was always from Latrobe (not to mention savings from free parking). And while it is about an hour drive to LBE compared to 15-20 mins to PIT,
I had a chance to drive out to Latrobe, originating from Monroeville, an eastern side of the PIT area. While reaching PIT can be a challenge itself because of traffic, I figured then LBE is close enough (estimated under 1 hour) to be a viable PIT alternative. I wanted to buy some Spirit tickets anyways, so figured why not with the free parking check it out. I found it very rural out there by LBE, very PA rural, and not a very straightforward drive. My drive back to 76 was an adventure and a lesson learned is not to be reliant on a GPS. There is an airshow going on this weekend and area was busy with a lot of people out for it. The airport is very close to homes as well, that I guess there isn't a NIMBY sentiment? I wonder how many people from Allegheny County support LBE? It just seemed like LBE might be good as a niche for Westmoreland County (population 355,458) but not all that easily accessible in general to be a good alternative.
pgh234 wrote:flyPIT wrote:
Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.
flyPIT wrote:IIRC the initial long term leases associated with the midfield terminal were for 20 years. So BA was still paying many years after they left in 1999... but not for this long. I vividly remember that wood door frame as the entrance to the BA lounge.pit1000 wrote:CaptainMidnight wrote:- I recently took a 10 day trip with my family of 6 and parked in the Extended Lot to save money. We parked near the end of the people movers. As you can imagine we had tons of stuff especially with two of the four kids requiring car seats. I needed to rent a cart but had to go nearly halfway through the people mover section to get one and then take it back to our car to load up. Just a big waste of time. Why isn't there one right at the beginning/end of the people mover section? Was there ever one?
- Does anyone know why there wasn't at least one parking garage built for the Extended Lot? Was it ever considered? Would take up less space and can have cart rentals stationed by the parking garage elevators. Was it because of height restrictions?
It could also be that at the time, PIT was a mostly hub airport with not much attention to O&D. If I remember the old airport, I don't think there was alot of parking so maybe they were still in that mindset. Just a guess.
Here is the scoop on the parking lot situation at the old terminal as to why there was no garage and small lots available:
http://digitalcollections.library.cmu.edu/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=422799
Page 9
The most recent PIT land use plan had up to 5 garages planned on the existing lot, in addition to office buildings lining the moving walkway which looks to be extended all the way to the WTC site.
http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1085&context=architecture
Page 25 and 41
That was a few years ago and looks like they were going for an airport city concept. I'm not sure if that is still the agenda. Ms. Cassotis has said several times that the new master plan will address increasing covered parking. What I will imaging will happen is the current garage (which has structural deficiencies) will be demolished and replaced by a much larger structure.
GSP psgr wrote:flyPIT wrote:In addition to ERI, Southern Airways is also considering PIT-AVP/ABE:
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12447364-74/direct-flights-between-pittsburgh-and-erie-could-be-on-the-horizon
I wonder how much of a local market there might be for PIT-BUF?
Cush wrote:I don't agree with you PHLUser... I think these smaller airports do quite well. Here is my take on the situation. In the past, it cost an insane amount to fly from PIT-ERI or PIT-LBE or PIT-JST on US Air Express. (i am talking if you just book that leg roundtrip). I remember when airlines gave 500 miles (minimum) per segment in their FF programs, and i priced out a few of these routings a number of times. The price was very high (a few hundred dollars). Now if you were connecting to a longer flight, the price was higher, but not much higher.
Southern Airways is different, as their fares are very affordable. As someone who flew to DC multiple times per year, (Reagan), the fares could fall in the 300-500/RT price range. Southern allows you to fly for $55/ow, which is amazing in my opinion (to Dulles of course).
Reasonable prices for service to these cities can be amazing! Charging $200+ for a flight to Altoona doesn't make sense, but a fare that is 1/4 to 1/3 of the price, then you are talking!
Plus, remember, they are not filling 20-30 passenger Beechcraft 1900 or Saab 340 aircraft. They are filling little 9 seat planes.
I think they really have a nice niche picking up the missing US Air Express feeder network.
Anyone think they will start PIT-CMH and PIT-CLE sometime in the near future? We have no air link to Columbus or Cleveland, and I am sure some $50 fares would entice folks to save the 2-2.5 hour drive to PIT for a connecting flight.
oflanigan wrote:I thought OneJet was suppose to choose a new Jet to replace the BeechJets? Anyone have any insight to the timeline?
izbtmnhd wrote:Cush wrote:I don't agree with you PHLUser... I think these smaller airports do quite well. Here is my take on the situation. In the past, it cost an insane amount to fly from PIT-ERI or PIT-LBE or PIT-JST on US Air Express. (i am talking if you just book that leg roundtrip). I remember when airlines gave 500 miles (minimum) per segment in their FF programs, and i priced out a few of these routings a number of times. The price was very high (a few hundred dollars). Now if you were connecting to a longer flight, the price was higher, but not much higher.
Southern Airways is different, as their fares are very affordable. As someone who flew to DC multiple times per year, (Reagan), the fares could fall in the 300-500/RT price range. Southern allows you to fly for $55/ow, which is amazing in my opinion (to Dulles of course).
Reasonable prices for service to these cities can be amazing! Charging $200+ for a flight to Altoona doesn't make sense, but a fare that is 1/4 to 1/3 of the price, then you are talking!
Plus, remember, they are not filling 20-30 passenger Beechcraft 1900 or Saab 340 aircraft. They are filling little 9 seat planes.
I think they really have a nice niche picking up the missing US Air Express feeder network.
Anyone think they will start PIT-CMH and PIT-CLE sometime in the near future? We have no air link to Columbus or Cleveland, and I am sure some $50 fares would entice folks to save the 2-2.5 hour drive to PIT for a connecting flight.
I think PIT-CLE could do very well priced appropriately. Conx on both ends. To PIT for TATL. To CLE for West Coast flights.
ConcourseZ wrote:izbtmnhd wrote:Cush wrote:I don't agree with you PHLUser... I think these smaller airports do quite well. Here is my take on the situation. In the past, it cost an insane amount to fly from PIT-ERI or PIT-LBE or PIT-JST on US Air Express. (i am talking if you just book that leg roundtrip). I remember when airlines gave 500 miles (minimum) per segment in their FF programs, and i priced out a few of these routings a number of times. The price was very high (a few hundred dollars). Now if you were connecting to a longer flight, the price was higher, but not much higher.
Southern Airways is different, as their fares are very affordable. As someone who flew to DC multiple times per year, (Reagan), the fares could fall in the 300-500/RT price range. Southern allows you to fly for $55/ow, which is amazing in my opinion (to Dulles of course).
Reasonable prices for service to these cities can be amazing! Charging $200+ for a flight to Altoona doesn't make sense, but a fare that is 1/4 to 1/3 of the price, then you are talking!
Plus, remember, they are not filling 20-30 passenger Beechcraft 1900 or Saab 340 aircraft. They are filling little 9 seat planes.
I think they really have a nice niche picking up the missing US Air Express feeder network.
Anyone think they will start PIT-CMH and PIT-CLE sometime in the near future? We have no air link to Columbus or Cleveland, and I am sure some $50 fares would entice folks to save the 2-2.5 hour drive to PIT for a connecting flight.
I think PIT-CLE could do very well priced appropriately. Conx on both ends. To PIT for TATL. To CLE for West Coast flights.
My opinion is, like the LCCs have shown, there is a market for the right price. I could see PIT - CLE, PIT - CMH, PIT - TOL, even PIT - CAK. Years ago, EAL had an occasional PIT - CAK flight. Go figure. IN WVA, PIT - CRW and PIT - HTS could be viable. Some of these markets might make sense if they intend to connect with the LCCs at PIT. The Caravans could be viable up to a one-hour flight. Many of the small cities connection flights were flown by AL using CV-580s. My opinion.
Cush wrote:phluser wrote:Cush wrote:and surprisingly, the cheapest option was always from Latrobe (not to mention savings from free parking). And while it is about an hour drive to LBE compared to 15-20 mins to PIT,
I had a chance to drive out to Latrobe, originating from Monroeville, an eastern side of the PIT area. While reaching PIT can be a challenge itself because of traffic, I figured then LBE is close enough (estimated under 1 hour) to be a viable PIT alternative. I wanted to buy some Spirit tickets anyways, so figured why not with the free parking check it out. I found it very rural out there by LBE, very PA rural, and not a very straightforward drive. My drive back to 76 was an adventure and a lesson learned is not to be reliant on a GPS. There is an airshow going on this weekend and area was busy with a lot of people out for it. The airport is very close to homes as well, that I guess there isn't a NIMBY sentiment? I wonder how many people from Allegheny County support LBE? It just seemed like LBE might be good as a niche for Westmoreland County (population 355,458) but not all that easily accessible in general to be a good alternative.
I live about 15-20 minutes from PIT, but prefer LBE whenever possible... I think for most folks, it comes down to dollars and cents. What is the cost difference between PIT vs LBE, and is it worth the extra drive? As you mentioned, taking 76 is easy, but it's the backroads that make it a pain... For many folks that live around PIT, it seems "closer" and they are willing to pay more, for the simple fact that "yes" you can be at the airport rather quickly. However, also add in time to park, walk from the car to the terminal, check in, wait in security, ride the train, walk to the gate, etc.... That is all precious time that really begins to add up....
When you fly out of LBE, it's easy. You can park (for free), and walk 30-90 seconds to the terminal. You hand your bag off (if you have one) at the counter, and 20 feet away is security. Once you clear the security, you walk down steps and *boom*, you are at 'the' gate.
No exaggeration, a few years ago, i got held up in some construction on that road after 76... I was so nervous about missing my flight! I only had a carry on, and I arrived at the airport about 10 minutes before boarding... I parked my car, walked briskly to the building, went through security, and was at the gate with 5 minutes to spare still... Where else in the world can you get from your car to the gate in under 5 minutes.... That's the benefit of LBE.
My wife and I recently from on Allegiant from Pittsburgh to Savannah, and while it was a good experience, the draw backs of a large airport were very noticeable. We arrived early in the morning and had to make circles in extended parking to find a space. Once we parked, there was the walk to the building, then the multiple people movers to get to the terminal. Once inside, we had to walk to the Allegiant counter (furthest away), and wait in an extremely long line to check our bag in for the flight. You would think with 2 flights departing, there would be more than 1 guy working check-in, but no, just one... Not to mention, a large number of the travelers either rarely traveled or had never experienced a ULCC before.... I think it's insane that with one employee, you allow customers to stand in front of you, download/install their app, etc, just to save from printing it there. No offense, but if you need to do that, get back in line. Why do we (who downloaded or printed tickets), need to wait for you to putz on your phone (use impersonation: "i never use this here smart phone. i don't download apps ever so here, let me figure this here out real quick".... UGH!!!!
After finally checking in, there was a large wait for security, and then the train, and then walk to the gate. I timed it took us 1 hour and 15 minutes from the moment we entered the parking lot until we were sitting at the gate.
So, when you see 5 minutes parking lot to gate for Latrobe (plus it's free parking), and over an hour for PIT, it makes more sense in most cases to use LBE when possible.
Not knocking PIT, as I love it, but if i have a choice, i much prefer the small feel of LBE.
izbtmnhd wrote:But for whatever reason Southern seems to be avoiding Ohio and pushing it to as many PA small towns as possible. I'm not sure how strong of a strategy it is. For instance, PIT-ABE seems kind of silly since it's a pretty easy drive across the Delaware on I-78 to EWR with tons of TATL flights.
dabpit wrote:Hearing word that COPA will announce PIT later this year for service starting next year...I am skeptical of this but guess we will have to wait and see if it really is announced.
flyPIT wrote:I think with ABE and AVP the goal would be more to capture O&D traffic between the eastern part of the state and PIT. The drive to EWR might be easy but its a pain in the ass to Pittsburgh.
Jshank83 wrote:Sounds like Porter is cutting PIT. I can't find a link but it is mentioned here. Maybe this is old news but I hadn't heard it anywhere.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366937
Cush wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Sounds like Porter is cutting PIT. I can't find a link but it is mentioned here. Maybe this is old news but I hadn't heard it anywhere.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366937
I'm not too surprised to hear this... My buddy flew on them twice and he said it was extremely empty. I guess our market can only handle one carrier to Canada (AC). I think a lot of people really liked the idea of flying into the other Toronto Airport, but I guess the O&D wasn't there for Toronto bound passengers only.
I guess that makes sense, as my flight from YYZ-PIT a while ago on AC were mostly connecting pax.
phluser wrote:I do wonder why not just increase PIT-MDT service. From NE PA, SE PA, MDT is central, and it could be the place to park to then fly across the state to PIT and vice versa. I think better frequency on PIT-MDT makes more sense as a market could be built, than these 1x flights to each and every PA airport, some which are quite close in drive (e.g. Pittsburgh to Erie).
Jshank83 wrote:I'll be curious what it does to prices. Almost every other airport that AC is the only airline on the route it is $200 and up each way. MCI, MKE, IND, CLE, CMH, STL, etc. Right now it is in the $102 for range PIT.
cvgComair wrote:I am surprised Porter could not make PIT work, both DL and AC serve CVG-YYZ at 2x and 3x day respectively. Both carriers mainly use CRJ-200’s on the route, but DL has put CRJ-700/900’s on the route seasonally. Fares are also pretty low one way booked a month out, so they are in line with PIT’s fares currently.
flyPIT wrote:I am skeptical as well but we know they are a target airline. How credible is your source? COPA is getting a boatload of airplanes and needs places to fly them and they will get incentives here...
flyPIT wrote:phluser wrote:I do wonder why not just increase PIT-MDT service. From NE PA, SE PA, MDT is central, and it could be the place to park to then fly across the state to PIT and vice versa. I think better frequency on PIT-MDT makes more sense as a market could be built, than these 1x flights to each and every PA airport, some which are quite close in drive (e.g. Pittsburgh to Erie).
There are no 1x flights from these markets, a few might be 2x but most are 3x or more. I like the idea of adding AVP and ABE because the point is air service, not driving westward almost half way across the state to MDT to change modes of transport to finish the last half of the journey.
Jshank83 wrote:Cush wrote:Jshank83 wrote:Sounds like Porter is cutting PIT. I can't find a link but it is mentioned here. Maybe this is old news but I hadn't heard it anywhere.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366937
I'm not too surprised to hear this... My buddy flew on them twice and he said it was extremely empty. I guess our market can only handle one carrier to Canada (AC). I think a lot of people really liked the idea of flying into the other Toronto Airport, but I guess the O&D wasn't there for Toronto bound passengers only.
I guess that makes sense, as my flight from YYZ-PIT a while ago on AC were mostly connecting pax.
I'll be curious what it does to prices. Almost every other airport that AC is the only airline on the route it is $200 and up each way. MCI, MKE, IND, CLE, CMH, STL, etc. Right now it is in the $102 for range PIT.
phluser wrote:flyPIT wrote:phluser wrote:I do wonder why not just increase PIT-MDT service. From NE PA, SE PA, MDT is central, and it could be the place to park to then fly across the state to PIT and vice versa. I think better frequency on PIT-MDT makes more sense as a market could be built, than these 1x flights to each and every PA airport, some which are quite close in drive (e.g. Pittsburgh to Erie).
There are no 1x flights from these markets, a few might be 2x but most are 3x or more. I like the idea of adding AVP and ABE because the point is air service, not driving westward almost half way across the state to MDT to change modes of transport to finish the last half of the journey.
But it's not halfway across the state from Allentown to MDT, or Scranton to MDT. It's closer to 1/3 the way (less than 1/3 with Allentown, between 1/3-1/2 for Scranton) but it's the easy part of the drive. It's the second 2/3 when heading west after Harrisburg that it's become the tedious part, where air service can be useful. In July, there are no seats sold on MDT-PIT. Either all are sold out, or something else. There is just not enough capacity on that route and that should be a route with the most capacity intra PA from the serviced or announced markets. I'm not against PIT-ABE/AVP independently, but talk of it and then following that model takes away resources from creating a higher frequency service to a more larger/central market, MDT.