flyPIT wrote:

OneJet will add PIT-BNA/PVD
http://triblive.com/business/headlines/12431272-74/onejet-to-launch-flights-from-pittsburgh-to-providence-nashville

Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.

AaronPGH wrote:

Sounds like Lufthansa is following Condor to San Diego starting next year. Maybe that could play out here as well?

I doubt it; I'm more interested to see Condor's schedule next year. Unlike some other US cities Condor's 2018 PIT schedule is not yet viewable. Maybe they will release details tomorrow to coincide with the inaugural flight.

pgh234 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

OneJet will add PIT-BNA/PVD
http://triblive.com/business/headlines/12431272-74/onejet-to-launch-flights-from-pittsburgh-to-providence-nashville

Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.

What I found interesting is OneJet mentioned Southwest Airlines in their own press release. How often does an airline mention a competing airline in a press release? But sounds like the timing of the flights will complement the WN flight.

flyPIT wrote:

AaronPGH wrote:

Sounds like Lufthansa is following Condor to San Diego starting next year. Maybe that could play out here as well?

I doubt it; I'm more interested to see Condor's schedule next year. Unlike some other US cities Condor's 2018 PIT schedule is not yet viewable. Maybe they will release details tomorrow to coincide with the inaugural flight.

pgh234 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

OneJet will add PIT-BNA/PVD
http://triblive.com/business/headlines/12431272-74/onejet-to-launch-flights-from-pittsburgh-to-providence-nashville

Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.

What I found interesting is OneJet mentioned Southwest Airlines in their own press release. How often does an airline mention a competing airline in a press release? But sounds like the timing of the flights will complement the WN flight.

Might OneJet be a modern day version of the 60s/70s TWA Jetstar service?

I thought OneJet was suppose to choose a new Jet to replace the BeechJets? Anyone have any insight to the timeline?

When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.

fsafsx wrote:

When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.

PIT-MCO/SFB is served by 5 carriers, so not much of a hole

Midwestindy wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.

PIT-MCO/SFB is served by 5 carriers, so not much of a hole

If anything we should be pushing B6 to add PIT-LAX. They do, after all, already serve BUF-LAX.

pitbosflyer wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.

PIT-MCO/SFB is served by 5 carriers, so not much of a hole

If anything we should be pushing B6 to add PIT-LAX. They do, after all, already serve BUF-LAX.

PIT - SFO would be good.

pitbosflyer wrote:

ConcourseZ wrote:

pitbosflyer wrote:

If anything we should be pushing B6 to add PIT-LAX. They do, after all, already serve BUF-LAX.

PIT - SFO would be good.

I may be wrong, but I would think DL/AA/UA would jump on the PIT-LAX before B6, since they all have some sort of hub operation in LAX and B6 only operates five nonstops routes from LAX.

AS I bet would/could start that soon after they decide to enter PIT.

The KEF, FRA, and CDG flights all landed one after the other. That's WOW Air in front of Condor:


Condor did go ahead and load their 2018 PIT schedules. Unfortunately as of now it will again be a very limited schedule. Twice weekly on Tue departing at 20:05 and Sat at 16:50 from June 23 to Sept 8. But it is one week longer than this year and the departure times are more reasonable than this summer's 22:30 departure on Mondays. That can of course all change.


Southern Airways is considering PIT-ERI service:
http://www.goerie.com/business/20170623/regional-airline-considering-offering-erie-pittsburgh-service

Pretty impressive they are up to 60 daily flights at PIT.

As I recall, the SWA CEO said Pittsburgh is an underserved market. I believe he also said PIT could handle 50 SWA departures per day. I believe they have about 35 now. So where do they fly to next?

flyPIT wrote:

The KEF, FRA, and CDG flights all landed one after the other. That's WOW Air in front of Condor:

I have been curious how customs (with a presumably limited staffing) would handle three loaded flights arriving within 20 minutes of each other on a busy Friday afternoon. Whatever it is...it can't be worse than EWR/JFK/etc.

Pics of the Condor arrival and celebration from PIT's Flickr account:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pitairport/albums/72157685441146885

I hope both Condor and WOW Air's hotel is downtown.
Not much attention from the local media which is surprising given the magnitude of this flight.

pgh234 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

The KEF, FRA, and CDG flights all landed one after the other. That's WOW Air in front of Condor:

I have been curious how customs (with a presumably limited staffing) would handle three loaded flights arriving within 20 minutes of each other on a busy Friday afternoon. Whatever it is...it can't be worse than EWR/JFK/etc.

I'm curious about that too. A CUN flight arrived before the European arrivals and a PUJ flight after so a busy afternoon for them.

Customs itself was fine. In fact they did a surprisingly good job. On the ACAA end of things not so much. As feared, the transit setup coming out of customs was a complete disaster. Customs was able to process passengers much faster than the transit system could take them away which resulted in major backups. Customs actually had to stop processing as they ran out of room for people on the transit end. The ACAA is going to have to bite the bullet and dedicate one whole train to customs during that arrival period. This is an agency that has no problem cramming everyone onto one train after 2300 to save electricity. Yet they won't dedicate one train to serving the international pax that they have spent a fortune recruiting. Typical ACAA all flash and talk but no substance when it comes time to deliver.

Flaps wrote:

Customs itself was fine. In fact they did a surprisingly good job. On the ACAA end of things not so much. As feared, the transit setup coming out of customs was a complete disaster. Customs was able to process passengers much faster than the transit system could take them away which resulted in major backups. Customs actually had to stop processing as they ran out of room for people on the transit end. The ACAA is going to have to bite the bullet and dedicate one whole train to customs during that arrival period. This is an agency that has no problem cramming everyone onto one train after 2300 to save electricity. Yet they won't dedicate one train to serving the international pax that they have spent a fortune recruiting. Typical ACAA all flash and talk but no substance when it comes time to deliver.

Thanks for the interesting and unexpected observation. Maybe they can dedicate 2 out of the 3 cars? (The still need much capacity for departing dom/intl flights and arriving dom flights during this period though...can't see them giving up a whole train) Perhaps have a shuttle bus on standby for these periods to wisk people over to landside? At least ACAA delivered the ability to not go through security again after arrival...that was absolutely asinine to do in the post 9/11 setup.

pgh234 wrote:

Flaps wrote:

Customs itself was fine. In fact they did a surprisingly good job. On the ACAA end of things not so much. As feared, the transit setup coming out of customs was a complete disaster. Customs was able to process passengers much faster than the transit system could take them away which resulted in major backups. Customs actually had to stop processing as they ran out of room for people on the transit end. The ACAA is going to have to bite the bullet and dedicate one whole train to customs during that arrival period. This is an agency that has no problem cramming everyone onto one train after 2300 to save electricity. Yet they won't dedicate one train to serving the international pax that they have spent a fortune recruiting. Typical ACAA all flash and talk but no substance when it comes time to deliver.

Thanks for the interesting and unexpected observation. Maybe they can dedicate 2 out of the 3 cars? (The still need much capacity for departing dom/intl flights and arriving dom flights during this period though...can't see them giving up a whole train) Perhaps have a shuttle bus on standby for these periods to wisk people over to landside? At least ACAA delivered the ability to not go through security again after arrival...that was absolutely asinine to do in the post 9/11 setup.

A bus would be an interesting proposition. Theoretically I suppose it could operate from the ground level doorway just past customs where the old re-check is located. They did try two cars on the train but it isn't nearly enough. Getting all of those people and bags onto a bus though.....It would probably require a special bus which would (god forbid) cost money.

pitbosflyer wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

fsafsx wrote:

When do you think B6 will add MCO flights? This is a big hole that can be filled for PIT.

PIT-MCO/SFB is served by 5 carriers, so not much of a hole

If anything we should be pushing B6 to add PIT-LAX. They do, after all, already serve BUF-LAX.

That was political, likely to curry favor with Senator Chuck Schumer of New York.

Cush wrote:

and surprisingly, the cheapest option was always from Latrobe (not to mention savings from free parking). And while it is about an hour drive to LBE compared to 15-20 mins to PIT,

I had a chance to drive out to Latrobe, originating from Monroeville, an eastern side of the PIT area. While reaching PIT can be a challenge itself because of traffic, I figured then LBE is close enough (estimated under 1 hour) to be a viable PIT alternative. I wanted to buy some Spirit tickets anyways, so figured why not with the free parking check it out. I found it very rural out there by LBE, very PA rural, and not a very straightforward drive. My drive back to 76 was an adventure and a lesson learned is not to be reliant on a GPS. There is an airshow going on this weekend and area was busy with a lot of people out for it. The airport is very close to homes as well, that I guess there isn't a NIMBY sentiment? I wonder how many people from Allegheny County support LBE? It just seemed like LBE might be good as a niche for Westmoreland County (population 355,458) but not all that easily accessible in general to be a good alternative.

phluser wrote:

Cush wrote:

and surprisingly, the cheapest option was always from Latrobe (not to mention savings from free parking). And while it is about an hour drive to LBE compared to 15-20 mins to PIT,

I had a chance to drive out to Latrobe, originating from Monroeville, an eastern side of the PIT area. While reaching PIT can be a challenge itself because of traffic, I figured then LBE is close enough (estimated under 1 hour) to be a viable PIT alternative. I wanted to buy some Spirit tickets anyways, so figured why not with the free parking check it out. I found it very rural out there by LBE, very PA rural, and not a very straightforward drive. My drive back to 76 was an adventure and a lesson learned is not to be reliant on a GPS. There is an airshow going on this weekend and area was busy with a lot of people out for it. The airport is very close to homes as well, that I guess there isn't a NIMBY sentiment? I wonder how many people from Allegheny County support LBE? It just seemed like LBE might be good as a niche for Westmoreland County (population 355,458) but not all that easily accessible in general to be a good alternative.

I live about 15-20 minutes from PIT, but prefer LBE whenever possible... I think for most folks, it comes down to dollars and cents. What is the cost difference between PIT vs LBE, and is it worth the extra drive? As you mentioned, taking 76 is easy, but it's the backroads that make it a pain... For many folks that live around PIT, it seems "closer" and they are willing to pay more, for the simple fact that "yes" you can be at the airport rather quickly. However, also add in time to park, walk from the car to the terminal, check in, wait in security, ride the train, walk to the gate, etc.... That is all precious time that really begins to add up....

When you fly out of LBE, it's easy. You can park (for free), and walk 30-90 seconds to the terminal. You hand your bag off (if you have one) at the counter, and 20 feet away is security. Once you clear the security, you walk down steps and *boom*, you are at 'the' gate.

No exaggeration, a few years ago, i got held up in some construction on that road after 76... I was so nervous about missing my flight! I only had a carry on, and I arrived at the airport about 10 minutes before boarding... I parked my car, walked briskly to the building, went through security, and was at the gate with 5 minutes to spare still... Where else in the world can you get from your car to the gate in under 5 minutes.... That's the benefit of LBE.

My wife and I recently from on Allegiant from Pittsburgh to Savannah, and while it was a good experience, the draw backs of a large airport were very noticeable. We arrived early in the morning and had to make circles in extended parking to find a space. Once we parked, there was the walk to the building, then the multiple people movers to get to the terminal. Once inside, we had to walk to the Allegiant counter (furthest away), and wait in an extremely long line to check our bag in for the flight. You would think with 2 flights departing, there would be more than 1 guy working check-in, but no, just one... Not to mention, a large number of the travelers either rarely traveled or had never experienced a ULCC before.... I think it's insane that with one employee, you allow customers to stand in front of you, download/install their app, etc, just to save from printing it there. No offense, but if you need to do that, get back in line. Why do we (who downloaded or printed tickets), need to wait for you to putz on your phone (use impersonation: "i never use this here smart phone. i don't download apps ever so here, let me figure this here out real quick".... UGH!!!!

After finally checking in, there was a large wait for security, and then the train, and then walk to the gate. I timed it took us 1 hour and 15 minutes from the moment we entered the parking lot until we were sitting at the gate.

So, when you see 5 minutes parking lot to gate for Latrobe (plus it's free parking), and over an hour for PIT, it makes more sense in most cases to use LBE when possible.

Not knocking PIT, as I love it, but if i have a choice, i much prefer the small feel of LBE.

pgh234 wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

OneJet will add PIT-BNA/PVD
http://triblive.com/business/headlines/12431272-74/onejet-to-launch-flights-from-pittsburgh-to-providence-nashville

Wow a 7 seat vs a 170'ish seat jet to BNA. That will be interesting to watch.

Just started looking at a PIT-BNA flight in August. Very surprised that the cheapest One Jet flights are only $10 more than the WN flight. Granted, if there is a Southwest sale those dynamics will change quite a bit, but it is very interesting to see the difference in how One Jet prices when there is non-stop competition in the market. For $10 I would take One Jet over Southwest in almost any circumstance...it is such a different/remarkably more enjoyable way to fly!

flyPIT wrote:

IIRC the initial long term leases associated with the midfield terminal were for 20 years. So BA was still paying many years after they left in 1999... but not for this long. I vividly remember that wood door frame as the entrance to the BA lounge.

pit1000 wrote:

CaptainMidnight wrote:

- I recently took a 10 day trip with my family of 6 and parked in the Extended Lot to save money. We parked near the end of the people movers. As you can imagine we had tons of stuff especially with two of the four kids requiring car seats. I needed to rent a cart but had to go nearly halfway through the people mover section to get one and then take it back to our car to load up. Just a big waste of time. Why isn't there one right at the beginning/end of the people mover section? Was there ever one?

- Does anyone know why there wasn't at least one parking garage built for the Extended Lot? Was it ever considered? Would take up less space and can have cart rentals stationed by the parking garage elevators. Was it because of height restrictions?

It could also be that at the time, PIT was a mostly hub airport with not much attention to O&D. If I remember the old airport, I don't think there was alot of parking so maybe they were still in that mindset. Just a guess.

Here is the scoop on the parking lot situation at the old terminal as to why there was no garage and small lots available:
http://digitalcollections.library.cmu.edu/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=422799
Page 9

The most recent PIT land use plan had up to 5 garages planned on the existing lot, in addition to office buildings lining the moving walkway which looks to be extended all the way to the WTC site.
http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1085&context=architecture
Page 25 and 41

That was a few years ago and looks like they were going for an airport city concept. I'm not sure if that is still the agenda. Ms. Cassotis has said several times that the new master plan will address increasing covered parking. What I will imaging will happen is the current garage (which has structural deficiencies) will be demolished and replaced by a much larger structure.

Thanks for the info, good stuff.

I had my car parked in Extended last week and got into PIT early afternoon last Thursday. As I was loading my car about five cars drove by asking if I was leaving soon as they had been driving around and hadn't found any spots. Two of the drivers almost got into a fight over my spot, crazy. I'm guessing Extended was near full as it was mid-week and near the weekend amidst summer vacation travel (plus business travel).

In addition to ERI, Southern Airways is also considering PIT-AVP/ABE:
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12447364-74/direct-flights-between-pittsburgh-and-erie-could-be-on-the-horizon


Another nice Pittsburgh promotion from WOW Air:
https://wowair.us/magazine/biking-pittsburgh-washington-dc/

[quote="flyPIT"]In addition to ERI, Southern Airways is also considering PIT-AVP/ABE:
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12447364-74/direct-flights-between-pittsburgh-and-erie-could-be-on-the-horizon

I wonder how much of a local market there might be for PIT-BUF?

GSP psgr wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

In addition to ERI, Southern Airways is also considering PIT-AVP/ABE:
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12447364-74/direct-flights-between-pittsburgh-and-erie-could-be-on-the-horizon

I wonder how much of a local market there might be for PIT-BUF?

The drive from Pittsburgh to Erie area is very easy so I wonder why would one take flight service?

BUF is another 2 hours from there, but easy drive as well, and a typical stopover is the Millcreek Mall area. CLE-CMH doesn't have flight service and it's bigger markets (than ERI) and one is a capital.

I don't agree with you PHLUser... I think these smaller airports do quite well. Here is my take on the situation. In the past, it cost an insane amount to fly from PIT-ERI or PIT-LBE or PIT-JST on US Air Express. (i am talking if you just book that leg roundtrip). I remember when airlines gave 500 miles (minimum) per segment in their FF programs, and i priced out a few of these routings a number of times. The price was very high (a few hundred dollars). Now if you were connecting to a longer flight, the price was higher, but not much higher.

Southern Airways is different, as their fares are very affordable. As someone who flew to DC multiple times per year, (Reagan), the fares could fall in the 300-500/RT price range. Southern allows you to fly for $55/ow, which is amazing in my opinion (to Dulles of course).

Reasonable prices for service to these cities can be amazing! Charging $200+ for a flight to Altoona doesn't make sense, but a fare that is 1/4 to 1/3 of the price, then you are talking!

Plus, remember, they are not filling 20-30 passenger Beechcraft 1900 or Saab 340 aircraft. They are filling little 9 seat planes.

I think they really have a nice niche picking up the missing US Air Express feeder network.

Anyone think they will start PIT-CMH and PIT-CLE sometime in the near future? We have no air link to Columbus or Cleveland, and I am sure some $50 fares would entice folks to save the 2-2.5 hour drive to PIT for a connecting flight.

Cush wrote:

I don't agree with you PHLUser... I think these smaller airports do quite well. Here is my take on the situation. In the past, it cost an insane amount to fly from PIT-ERI or PIT-LBE or PIT-JST on US Air Express. (i am talking if you just book that leg roundtrip). I remember when airlines gave 500 miles (minimum) per segment in their FF programs, and i priced out a few of these routings a number of times. The price was very high (a few hundred dollars). Now if you were connecting to a longer flight, the price was higher, but not much higher.

Southern Airways is different, as their fares are very affordable. As someone who flew to DC multiple times per year, (Reagan), the fares could fall in the 300-500/RT price range. Southern allows you to fly for $55/ow, which is amazing in my opinion (to Dulles of course).

Reasonable prices for service to these cities can be amazing! Charging $200+ for a flight to Altoona doesn't make sense, but a fare that is 1/4 to 1/3 of the price, then you are talking!

Plus, remember, they are not filling 20-30 passenger Beechcraft 1900 or Saab 340 aircraft. They are filling little 9 seat planes.

I think they really have a nice niche picking up the missing US Air Express feeder network.

Anyone think they will start PIT-CMH and PIT-CLE sometime in the near future? We have no air link to Columbus or Cleveland, and I am sure some $50 fares would entice folks to save the 2-2.5 hour drive to PIT for a connecting flight.

I think PIT-CLE could do very well priced appropriately. Conx on both ends. To PIT for TATL. To CLE for West Coast flights.

oflanigan wrote:

I thought OneJet was suppose to choose a new Jet to replace the BeechJets? Anyone have any insight to the timeline?

Interesting article in yesterday's Financial Times saying prices for used biz jets are dropping like a rock in a glutted market. Sounds like a good time for OneJet to be a buyer.

https://www.ft.com/content/23a59714-581 ... 2?mhq5j=e3

izbtmnhd wrote:

Cush wrote:

I don't agree with you PHLUser... I think these smaller airports do quite well. Here is my take on the situation. In the past, it cost an insane amount to fly from PIT-ERI or PIT-LBE or PIT-JST on US Air Express. (i am talking if you just book that leg roundtrip). I remember when airlines gave 500 miles (minimum) per segment in their FF programs, and i priced out a few of these routings a number of times. The price was very high (a few hundred dollars). Now if you were connecting to a longer flight, the price was higher, but not much higher.

Southern Airways is different, as their fares are very affordable. As someone who flew to DC multiple times per year, (Reagan), the fares could fall in the 300-500/RT price range. Southern allows you to fly for $55/ow, which is amazing in my opinion (to Dulles of course).

Reasonable prices for service to these cities can be amazing! Charging $200+ for a flight to Altoona doesn't make sense, but a fare that is 1/4 to 1/3 of the price, then you are talking!

Plus, remember, they are not filling 20-30 passenger Beechcraft 1900 or Saab 340 aircraft. They are filling little 9 seat planes.

I think they really have a nice niche picking up the missing US Air Express feeder network.

Anyone think they will start PIT-CMH and PIT-CLE sometime in the near future? We have no air link to Columbus or Cleveland, and I am sure some $50 fares would entice folks to save the 2-2.5 hour drive to PIT for a connecting flight.

I think PIT-CLE could do very well priced appropriately. Conx on both ends. To PIT for TATL. To CLE for West Coast flights.

My opinion is, like the LCCs have shown, there is a market for the right price. I could see PIT - CLE, PIT - CMH, PIT - TOL, even PIT - CAK. Years ago, EAL had an occasional PIT - CAK flight. Go figure. IN WVA, PIT - CRW and PIT - HTS could be viable. Some of these markets might make sense if they intend to connect with the LCCs at PIT. The Caravans could be viable up to a one-hour flight. Many of the small cities connection flights were flown by AL using CV-580s. My opinion.

ConcourseZ wrote:

izbtmnhd wrote:

Cush wrote:

I don't agree with you PHLUser... I think these smaller airports do quite well. Here is my take on the situation. In the past, it cost an insane amount to fly from PIT-ERI or PIT-LBE or PIT-JST on US Air Express. (i am talking if you just book that leg roundtrip). I remember when airlines gave 500 miles (minimum) per segment in their FF programs, and i priced out a few of these routings a number of times. The price was very high (a few hundred dollars). Now if you were connecting to a longer flight, the price was higher, but not much higher.

Southern Airways is different, as their fares are very affordable. As someone who flew to DC multiple times per year, (Reagan), the fares could fall in the 300-500/RT price range. Southern allows you to fly for $55/ow, which is amazing in my opinion (to Dulles of course).

Reasonable prices for service to these cities can be amazing! Charging $200+ for a flight to Altoona doesn't make sense, but a fare that is 1/4 to 1/3 of the price, then you are talking!

Plus, remember, they are not filling 20-30 passenger Beechcraft 1900 or Saab 340 aircraft. They are filling little 9 seat planes.

I think they really have a nice niche picking up the missing US Air Express feeder network.

Anyone think they will start PIT-CMH and PIT-CLE sometime in the near future? We have no air link to Columbus or Cleveland, and I am sure some $50 fares would entice folks to save the 2-2.5 hour drive to PIT for a connecting flight.

I think PIT-CLE could do very well priced appropriately. Conx on both ends. To PIT for TATL. To CLE for West Coast flights.

My opinion is, like the LCCs have shown, there is a market for the right price. I could see PIT - CLE, PIT - CMH, PIT - TOL, even PIT - CAK. Years ago, EAL had an occasional PIT - CAK flight. Go figure. IN WVA, PIT - CRW and PIT - HTS could be viable. Some of these markets might make sense if they intend to connect with the LCCs at PIT. The Caravans could be viable up to a one-hour flight. Many of the small cities connection flights were flown by AL using CV-580s. My opinion.

I don't think they're all equally as viable. I think the only market with a large conx potential that's not a true EAS route would be CLE-PIT. They would connect underserved markets on both ends. It could actually have some pricing power to it.

But for whatever reason Southern seems to be avoiding Ohio and pushing it to as many PA small towns as possible. I'm not sure how strong of a strategy it is. For instance, PIT-ABE seems kind of silly since it's a pretty easy drive across the Delaware on I-78 to EWR with tons of TATL flights.

Hearing word that COPA will announce PIT later this year for service starting next year...I am skeptical of this but guess we will have to wait and see if it really is announced.

Cush wrote:

phluser wrote:

Cush wrote:

and surprisingly, the cheapest option was always from Latrobe (not to mention savings from free parking). And while it is about an hour drive to LBE compared to 15-20 mins to PIT,

I had a chance to drive out to Latrobe, originating from Monroeville, an eastern side of the PIT area. While reaching PIT can be a challenge itself because of traffic, I figured then LBE is close enough (estimated under 1 hour) to be a viable PIT alternative. I wanted to buy some Spirit tickets anyways, so figured why not with the free parking check it out. I found it very rural out there by LBE, very PA rural, and not a very straightforward drive. My drive back to 76 was an adventure and a lesson learned is not to be reliant on a GPS. There is an airshow going on this weekend and area was busy with a lot of people out for it. The airport is very close to homes as well, that I guess there isn't a NIMBY sentiment? I wonder how many people from Allegheny County support LBE? It just seemed like LBE might be good as a niche for Westmoreland County (population 355,458) but not all that easily accessible in general to be a good alternative.

I live about 15-20 minutes from PIT, but prefer LBE whenever possible... I think for most folks, it comes down to dollars and cents. What is the cost difference between PIT vs LBE, and is it worth the extra drive? As you mentioned, taking 76 is easy, but it's the backroads that make it a pain... For many folks that live around PIT, it seems "closer" and they are willing to pay more, for the simple fact that "yes" you can be at the airport rather quickly. However, also add in time to park, walk from the car to the terminal, check in, wait in security, ride the train, walk to the gate, etc.... That is all precious time that really begins to add up....

When you fly out of LBE, it's easy. You can park (for free), and walk 30-90 seconds to the terminal. You hand your bag off (if you have one) at the counter, and 20 feet away is security. Once you clear the security, you walk down steps and *boom*, you are at 'the' gate.

No exaggeration, a few years ago, i got held up in some construction on that road after 76... I was so nervous about missing my flight! I only had a carry on, and I arrived at the airport about 10 minutes before boarding... I parked my car, walked briskly to the building, went through security, and was at the gate with 5 minutes to spare still... Where else in the world can you get from your car to the gate in under 5 minutes.... That's the benefit of LBE.

My wife and I recently from on Allegiant from Pittsburgh to Savannah, and while it was a good experience, the draw backs of a large airport were very noticeable. We arrived early in the morning and had to make circles in extended parking to find a space. Once we parked, there was the walk to the building, then the multiple people movers to get to the terminal. Once inside, we had to walk to the Allegiant counter (furthest away), and wait in an extremely long line to check our bag in for the flight. You would think with 2 flights departing, there would be more than 1 guy working check-in, but no, just one... Not to mention, a large number of the travelers either rarely traveled or had never experienced a ULCC before.... I think it's insane that with one employee, you allow customers to stand in front of you, download/install their app, etc, just to save from printing it there. No offense, but if you need to do that, get back in line. Why do we (who downloaded or printed tickets), need to wait for you to putz on your phone (use impersonation: "i never use this here smart phone. i don't download apps ever so here, let me figure this here out real quick".... UGH!!!!

After finally checking in, there was a large wait for security, and then the train, and then walk to the gate. I timed it took us 1 hour and 15 minutes from the moment we entered the parking lot until we were sitting at the gate.

So, when you see 5 minutes parking lot to gate for Latrobe (plus it's free parking), and over an hour for PIT, it makes more sense in most cases to use LBE when possible.

Not knocking PIT, as I love it, but if i have a choice, i much prefer the small feel of LBE.

I agree, the LBE is a nice,laid back experience compared to flying out of PIT (and PIT is less stressful than bigger airports). Flew NK from LBE-MCO about two years ago with my family of six. I figured it was the way to go for us because of their prices (I usuaslly fly for business and pick flights based on schedule so I never even look at ULCCs). I knew what I was getting into but it was ridiculous with their extra charges. I'm sure its fine for some people and they have their fans and return customers who appreciate their approach to things, but I am not one of them. Our return trip home the flight was delayed seven hours. Stuck around MCO with four young kids for that long and got a measley $50 voucher. Bad customer service. We had to scramble and get a hotel room and then pay out the arse for a return flight home the next day on another airline and had to have someone to pick us up from PIT then shuttle me to LBE to get our car. The logistics doing all that was a terrible experience. Never again with NK. Our family trips are now via WN and have had all good experiences. Yes they are more money than NK (or any of the other ULCCs) but you get what you pay for. Now if only WN flew out of LBE...

Allegiant Airlines Strands Passengers At Pittsburgh International:
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2017/06/ ... assengers/

During the US Airways hub at its peak I've often wondered if US Express would be successful with a 9 seater Caravan network to places such as Indiana, PA, Mansfield, OH, Zanesville, OH, Wheeling WV, etc etc. Basically the small cities that had commercial flight's during aviation's golden era but passed over after deregulation.

izbtmnhd wrote:

But for whatever reason Southern seems to be avoiding Ohio and pushing it to as many PA small towns as possible. I'm not sure how strong of a strategy it is. For instance, PIT-ABE seems kind of silly since it's a pretty easy drive across the Delaware on I-78 to EWR with tons of TATL flights.

I think with ABE and AVP the goal would be more to capture O&D traffic between the eastern part of the state and PIT. The drive to EWR might be easy but its a pain in the ass to Pittsburgh.

dabpit wrote:

Hearing word that COPA will announce PIT later this year for service starting next year...I am skeptical of this but guess we will have to wait and see if it really is announced.

I am skeptical as well but we know they are a target airline. How credible is your source? COPA is getting a boatload of airplanes and needs places to fly them and they will get incentives here...

Sounds like Porter is cutting PIT. I can't find a link but it is mentioned here. Maybe this is old news but I hadn't heard it anywhere.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366937

flyPIT wrote:

I think with ABE and AVP the goal would be more to capture O&D traffic between the eastern part of the state and PIT. The drive to EWR might be easy but its a pain in the ass to Pittsburgh.

Agreed that it's probably for O&D traffic and the drive is long. But going east-west on 80 is still better than PA Turnpike. I do wonder why not just increase PIT-MDT service. From NE PA, SE PA, MDT is central, and it could be the place to park to then fly across the state to PIT and vice versa. I think better frequency on PIT-MDT makes more sense as a market could be built, than these 1x flights to each and every PA airport, some which are quite close in drive (e.g. Pittsburgh to Erie).

Jshank83 wrote:

Sounds like Porter is cutting PIT. I can't find a link but it is mentioned here. Maybe this is old news but I hadn't heard it anywhere.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366937

I'm not too surprised to hear this... My buddy flew on them twice and he said it was extremely empty. I guess our market can only handle one carrier to Canada (AC). I think a lot of people really liked the idea of flying into the other Toronto Airport, but I guess the O&D wasn't there for Toronto bound passengers only.

I guess that makes sense, as my flight from YYZ-PIT a while ago on AC were mostly connecting pax.

Cush wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Sounds like Porter is cutting PIT. I can't find a link but it is mentioned here. Maybe this is old news but I hadn't heard it anywhere.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366937

I'm not too surprised to hear this... My buddy flew on them twice and he said it was extremely empty. I guess our market can only handle one carrier to Canada (AC). I think a lot of people really liked the idea of flying into the other Toronto Airport, but I guess the O&D wasn't there for Toronto bound passengers only.

I guess that makes sense, as my flight from YYZ-PIT a while ago on AC were mostly connecting pax.

I'll be curious what it does to prices. Almost every other airport that AC is the only airline on the route it is $200 and up each way. MCI, MKE, IND, CLE, CMH, STL, etc. Right now it is in the $102 for range PIT.

phluser wrote:

I do wonder why not just increase PIT-MDT service. From NE PA, SE PA, MDT is central, and it could be the place to park to then fly across the state to PIT and vice versa. I think better frequency on PIT-MDT makes more sense as a market could be built, than these 1x flights to each and every PA airport, some which are quite close in drive (e.g. Pittsburgh to Erie).

There are no 1x flights from these markets, a few might be 2x but most are 3x or more. I like the idea of adding AVP and ABE because the point is air service, not driving westward almost half way across the state to MDT to change modes of transport to finish the last half of the journey.

Jshank83 wrote:

I'll be curious what it does to prices. Almost every other airport that AC is the only airline on the route it is $200 and up each way. MCI, MKE, IND, CLE, CMH, STL, etc. Right now it is in the $102 for range PIT.

Not sure what dates you are looking at but a weekend Air Canada round trip PIT-YYZ-PIT booked a week out was routinely $2,000 (TWO THOUSAND DOLLARS) to fly on a ratty 37 seat Dash-8 before Porter entered the market.

My take on this is:
1) Like we have seen before in PIT and other markets people stay with their FF alliance (*A in this case) instead of recognizing and supporting what competition has done to lower their airfare
2) Totally wrong airplane for the mission.. too many seats. A Q200 would be ideal or even a Q300 although even that might be a stretch. I mentioned this long ago that I'm surprised PD did not try to acquire this fleet type if they desired to enter mid sized northeast and midwest US markets.
3) Considering #2) and the elimination of PIT, I don't see PD entering CLE, CMH, IND, CVG, etc.
4) Look for Air Canada to skyrocket fares by the hundreds of dollars at PIT, and perhaps return to serving the market with those ratty 37 seat Dash 8s, not only to PIT but to CLE, CMH, and similar markets as the PD threat is gone.

I am surprised Porter could not make PIT work, both DL and AC serve CVG-YYZ at 2x and 3x day respectively. Both carriers mainly use CRJ-200’s on the route, but DL has put CRJ-700/900’s on the route seasonally. Fares are also pretty low one way booked a month out, so they are in line with PIT’s fares currently.

I do agree that I don’t see Porter entering any other markets if PIT did not work. I was hopeful that they could lower fares in other cities, very unfortunate.

cvgComair wrote:

I am surprised Porter could not make PIT work, both DL and AC serve CVG-YYZ at 2x and 3x day respectively. Both carriers mainly use CRJ-200’s on the route, but DL has put CRJ-700/900’s on the route seasonally. Fares are also pretty low one way booked a month out, so they are in line with PIT’s fares currently.

Difference being of course is that CVG is a DL hub, which accounts for the two DL flights and correlates to the competitive pricing with AC.

flyPIT wrote:

I am skeptical as well but we know they are a target airline. How credible is your source? COPA is getting a boatload of airplanes and needs places to fly them and they will get incentives here...

The source is credible but I still am skeptical. COPA does not announce new routes often and when they do they stick with them.

I disagree about PD not entering another mid-sized Midwest market now that PIT failed.

A.nutters said the same about Ohio for years when B6 failed at CMH but they started CLE.

I don't think they'll do CLE because, like PIT, the drive is too easy. I could see them attempting something like CMH/IND at some point. Although I would think there are bigger fish to fry first before going to those places.

flyPIT wrote:

phluser wrote:

I do wonder why not just increase PIT-MDT service. From NE PA, SE PA, MDT is central, and it could be the place to park to then fly across the state to PIT and vice versa. I think better frequency on PIT-MDT makes more sense as a market could be built, than these 1x flights to each and every PA airport, some which are quite close in drive (e.g. Pittsburgh to Erie).

There are no 1x flights from these markets, a few might be 2x but most are 3x or more. I like the idea of adding AVP and ABE because the point is air service, not driving westward almost half way across the state to MDT to change modes of transport to finish the last half of the journey.

But it's not halfway across the state from Allentown to MDT, or Scranton to MDT. It's closer to 1/3 the way (less than 1/3 with Allentown, between 1/3-1/2 for Scranton) but it's the easy part of the drive. It's the second 2/3 when heading west after Harrisburg that it's become the tedious part, where air service can be useful. In July, there are no seats sold on MDT-PIT. Either all are sold out, or something else. There is just not enough capacity on that route and that should be a route with the most capacity intra PA from the serviced or announced markets. I'm not against PIT-ABE/AVP independently, but talk of it and then following that model takes away resources from creating a higher frequency service to a more larger/central market, MDT.

It's amazing to see that what I had planned on doing 5 years ago really was a viable idea. Before Sun Air/Southern I had requested the info from Pit for the PA connector program and was drawing up a business plan and talking with Cessna about caravans... but I never found the investor(s) to put it all into motion and life took me in another direction. I still toy with my plans when I get really bored on overnights...

Southern had been doing really well with their business model. However, I'm not so sure how long it's going to last. Not because the market isn't there for what they are doing, but because management has been making big changes that I feel will affect their ability to continue hiring pilot's.

When Sun Air first came into PIT they had a $20,000 training contract to make $11/hr. Nobody bit... then they dropped it down to $10,000, and still nobody bit. Then came $5,000 and finally they got rid of it altogether. Only then did they start getting people into the door. Now, Southern has reintroduced a $7,000 training contract for their FO's and has placed a mandatory flow for the captains to Mesa Airlines, of all airlines...

I know a few people that left Southern at the end of last year and they all have said it already started going downhill and that it was better when it was Sun Air, which really surprised me as I was not that impressed with Sun Air.

Jshank83 wrote:

Cush wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

Sounds like Porter is cutting PIT. I can't find a link but it is mentioned here. Maybe this is old news but I hadn't heard it anywhere.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1366937

I'm not too surprised to hear this... My buddy flew on them twice and he said it was extremely empty. I guess our market can only handle one carrier to Canada (AC). I think a lot of people really liked the idea of flying into the other Toronto Airport, but I guess the O&D wasn't there for Toronto bound passengers only.

I guess that makes sense, as my flight from YYZ-PIT a while ago on AC were mostly connecting pax.

I'll be curious what it does to prices. Almost every other airport that AC is the only airline on the route it is $200 and up each way. MCI, MKE, IND, CLE, CMH, STL, etc. Right now it is in the $102 for range PIT.

I have seen flights from midwestern cities on AC to YYZ almost identically priced to AC flights to PVG THAT LAYOVER IN YYZ. Their pricing is crazy

Anybody have an update with QR Cargo operating into PIT?

[quote="flyPIT"]
There are no 1x flights from these markets, a few might be 2x but most are 3x or more. I like the idea of adding AVP and ABE because the point is air service, not driving westward almost half way across the state to MDT to change modes of transport to finish the last half of the journey.

Exactly, it makes zero sense. Would love to have service to my hometown from ABE tho.

phluser wrote:

flyPIT wrote:

phluser wrote:

I do wonder why not just increase PIT-MDT service. From NE PA, SE PA, MDT is central, and it could be the place to park to then fly across the state to PIT and vice versa. I think better frequency on PIT-MDT makes more sense as a market could be built, than these 1x flights to each and every PA airport, some which are quite close in drive (e.g. Pittsburgh to Erie).

There are no 1x flights from these markets, a few might be 2x but most are 3x or more. I like the idea of adding AVP and ABE because the point is air service, not driving westward almost half way across the state to MDT to change modes of transport to finish the last half of the journey.

But it's not halfway across the state from Allentown to MDT, or Scranton to MDT. It's closer to 1/3 the way (less than 1/3 with Allentown, between 1/3-1/2 for Scranton) but it's the easy part of the drive. It's the second 2/3 when heading west after Harrisburg that it's become the tedious part, where air service can be useful. In July, there are no seats sold on MDT-PIT. Either all are sold out, or something else. There is just not enough capacity on that route and that should be a route with the most capacity intra PA from the serviced or announced markets. I'm not against PIT-ABE/AVP independently, but talk of it and then following that model takes away resources from creating a higher frequency service to a more larger/central market, MDT.

The tedious part is trying to keep your car in one piece on 78 and then 81. The turnpike from Carlisle to Pitt is a cake walk. 70 mph and a only a 2:45-3 hour ride. It's and hour and a half to MDT then you have to park and get on a caravan?