this is a US3 only route (6X daily each, all RJ). is it safe to assume it is not really for O&D? and given all the new non stops to SAN, is that impacting these flights? curious if there were more seats back when these were mainline flights....

It's mostly all connect, and that's why it exists. Yes, when it was all mainline there were more seats in this market, but do keep in mind that back in those days flights weren't nearly as full as they are now.

It's probably safe to say that no matter how much SAN grows, there will always be ample connections in LAX that aren't available from SAN.

The usual O&D traffic (as reported on the DOT tables) is somewhere around 40-50 PDEW; the rest of the seats are used pretty much for connections. The number of seats offered in the city-pair (~18 flights a day each way) suggests LOTS of connecting pax, as well as the ever-present airline employee dead-headers!

bb

same reason ORD-MKE exists. so many connections served from LAX that can't be from SAN. NRT/LHR connections are great, but LAX offers a massive wealth of airlines that SAN never could (unless they do a new airport, but not likely for awhile)

AA has a few PHX based routes that are like this.

PHX - TUS is in the same boat.

AA flies it 9x daily with CRJ-700s and CRJ-900s and it's pretty much all connections.

PHX-FLG and PHX-YUM also fall in the same category.

PHX-PSP is probably the shortest route that has some decent O/D traffic.

United's COS-DEN route is also purely for connections. You could drive from Colorado Springs to Denver faster than it takes to drive to COS, go through security, hop on the plane, fly to Denver, and get out of the airport to the city.

AC's YUL-YOW is the same.

AA's CLT-FAY,too .

AmericanAirFan wrote:

United's COS-DEN route is also purely for connections. You could drive from Colorado Springs to Denver faster than it takes to drive to COS, go through security, hop on the plane, fly to Denver, and get out of the airport to the city.

You can drive to COS before you can get to the airport sometimes in DEN...

you can also put LAX-SBA/PSP in that list. thats a pretty common thing and it happens alot like KL AMS-BRU, LH FRA-DUS, all NYC-PHL flights and many more.

AmericanAirFan wrote:

United's COS-DEN route is also purely for connections. You could drive from Colorado Springs to Denver faster than it takes to drive to COS, go through security, hop on the plane, fly to Denver, and get out of the airport to the city.

COS is also a significant mx base for SkyWest--that's why. Helps with aircraft positioning and mx checks.

As for SAN-LAX, I've been on DL mainline here a long time ago, and all the way down to a Brasilia UAX flight.

There are a decent number of commuters here, some feed, mostly O&D. But damn if this isn't one of the most fun routes to fly and have a window seat on!!!

SAN-LAX had even more flights in years past, including D10 and L10 services. Lot's of cnx in those days, they at least have more service now than they used to.

ahj2000 wrote:

AmericanAirFan wrote:

United's COS-DEN route is also purely for connections. You could drive from Colorado Springs to Denver faster than it takes to drive to COS, go through security, hop on the plane, fly to Denver, and get out of the airport to the city.

You can drive to COS before you can get to the airport sometimes in DEN...

That's what Western Pacific used to say!

The same applies to essentially the entire Horizon Air network. Connect smaller markets to hubs like PDX and SEA and then let them connect anywhere else in the world. Pretty much no O&D on flights like GEG-SEA or EUG-PDX

ahj2000 wrote:

AmericanAirFan wrote:

United's COS-DEN route is also purely for connections. You could drive from Colorado Springs to Denver faster than it takes to drive to COS, go through security, hop on the plane, fly to Denver, and get out of the airport to the city.

You can drive to COS before you can get to the airport sometimes in DEN...

If COS were in the north part of town, Denverites and those from the southern suburbs would probably use it more than DEN! Getting to DEN takes so god damn long these days especially with how bad traffic is in Denver now.

slider wrote:

AmericanAirFan wrote:

United's COS-DEN route is also purely for connections. You could drive from Colorado Springs to Denver faster than it takes to drive to COS, go through security, hop on the plane, fly to Denver, and get out of the airport to the city.

COS is also a significant mx base for SkyWest--that's why. Helps with aircraft positioning and mx checks.

As for SAN-LAX, I've been on DL mainline here a long time ago, and all the way down to a Brasilia UAX flight.

There are a decent number of commuters here, some feed, mostly O&D. But damn if this isn't one of the most fun routes to fly and have a window seat on!!!

Isn't it also cheaper to park planes overnight at COS than at DEN?

United_fan wrote:

AA's CLT-FAY,too .

Vctony wrote:

PHX - TUS is in the same boat.

AA flies it 9x daily with CRJ-700s and CRJ-900s and it's pretty much all connections.

PHX-FLG and PHX-YUM also fall in the same category.

Routes like CLT-FAY or PHX-FLG are not really good analogs because SAN has one-stop service to the world without LAX service. If you want to fly FAY/FLG-CWA, you are hopping on the short hub route first. If you want to fly SAN-CWA, you skip LAX and fly AA, UA or DL straight to an upper midwest hub.

Something like MKE-ORD is a closer analog, although SAN is better connected than even MKE because it has service over both oceans.

The only thing for which I have found SAN-LAX useful is, somewhat paradoxically, very short routes. I had to do SAN-SBA a few years ago, and the sensible choices were driving through Los Angeles or connecting at LAX. I picked the connection.

The only thing for which I have found SAN-LAX useful is, somewhat paradoxically, very short routes. I had to do SAN-SBA a few years ago, and the sensible choices were driving through Los Angeles or connecting at LAX. I picked the connection.[/quote]

yeah, the roads are so congested that flying is preferable even with the connection.....

SAN LAX does seem unique to the other mentioned city pairs given all its transpac/atlantic and transcon services, still LAX offers way more hence 18 flights a day.

I flew DTW-LAX-SAN on AA as a kid way back in 1978. The LAX-SAN segment was on an old 707. One of the engines had a compressor stall (made a loud bang) as we banked out over the ocean on departure. Quite the memorable flight.

There are some cases where LAX is the best hub for the job. A few years ago before WN started flying MSY-SAN, I flew DL SAN-LAX-MSY. In that case any other DL hub would be pretty far out of the way. LAX isn't exactly the highest yielding hub for most airlines, so they're probably happy to have the higher connecting revenue.

Simply put LAX is a gateway to SAN for a good number of travellers.

In addition to the flights, thousand drive up from San Diego daily to access LAX air service options as well.

I flew SAN-LAX almost two years ago to transfer to AC LAX-YUL. The Brasilia flight alone made the experience worth it. The main reason I chose the routing instead of SAN-YYZ-YUL was so that I didn't have to pick up my luggage and go through customs in YYZ and then check in again for the YYZ-YUL connection. I had done that a couple of years earlier and it was a nightmare. I'll never forget the dozens of unattended wheelchair travellers waiting at the baggage pickup in YYZ crying "help me" over and over again and being ignored. We also almost missed our connecting YYZ-YUL flight due to the crowds and incompetent AC staff that misdirected us repeatedly. As bad as connecting in LAX was it was preferable to connecting in YYZ. SAN as an airport was however a very pleasant, stress-free experience.

I like flying LAX-SAN-LAX turns - I hand fly the whole flight the autopilot never comes on.

LAXN11 routing at 11,000ft from LAX to SAN and PEBLE6 SLI at 10,000ft from SAN to LAX