aviationjunky
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2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:01 am

J.D. Power has released their annual North American Airport Satisfaction Study and this year's top Large Airport is PDX, followed by TPA, then LAS. For Medium Airports, the top is IND, followed by BUF, then RSW. The full lists is below. Link to full Press Release is also below.

If you're unfamiliar with the Study, they look at 6 factors: terminal facilities, airport accessibility, security check, baggage claim, check-in/baggage check, and food/beverage/retail. They usually around 35000 people over the course of 10 months.

So, what do you guys think? I would have to agree with them for the most part. I haven't been to a few on the lists, but from what I have read on here, this seems about right.

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http://www.jdpower.com/press-releases/2016-north-america-airport-satisfaction-study
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ahj2000
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Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:48 am

I thought Miami would be lower and Charlotte and Minneapolis would be a few spots higher.
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ERJ170
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:02 am

So many of the medium size airports are higher ranked than the large ones
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Keith2004
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:12 am

Glad to see one of my local airports (DCA) ranked up there.

LGA will prob be at the bottom till they finish renovation.

What's EWRs excuse?
 
jbpdx
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:13 am

Concurs with Travel+Leisure magazine's ranking of PDX as No. 1 for 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU, CMH
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:49 am

Most of the airport facilities on this list are so wildly inconsistent that your experience varies tremendously by airline, aircraft type, and sometimes even just the luck of the draw. Even a small airport like CAK offers bright, modern, spacious facilities for some passengers (WN) while others (AA, DL) are crammed into an old dingy hallway. My 2 favorite U.S. airports - KOA and LGB - must be a bit too small for consideration.
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lavalampluva
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:47 am

Most international flights depart from US airports with the lowest scores. But these ranking systems are all different. One will come out where they are vastly different.
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masseybrown
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:05 am

Keith2004 wrote:
Glad to see one of my local airports (DCA) ranked up there.



DCA is the best of the Washington airports - except for AA's Gate 35X. The terminal expansion that will eliminate that Bedlam can't come soon enough.
 
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:46 am

ERJ170 wrote:
So many of the medium size airports are higher ranked than the large ones


lavalampluva wrote:
Most international flights depart from US airports with the lowest scores. But these ranking systems are all different. One will come out where they are vastly different.


Year after year, JD Power shows people prefer medium-sized airports to large airports. Medium-sized airports don't get a lot of intercontinental service! Survey respondents don't seem to be able to reconcile relative lack of hassle (from medium size airports) with needing to connect/fewer nonstop destinations/less frequent departures. IND (just to pick one) is never going to have service to 200+ airports nonstop and 1200 flights a day.
 
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:28 pm

The scale on the graph lends itself to be a little misleading. The lowest can be restated as a 6.5 and the best as a 7.9. That is a significant difference, but far less than the length of the shown bars. And wouldn't that be, in school grading terms D and C+?
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bob75013
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:53 pm

ERJ170 wrote:
So many of the medium size airports are higher ranked than the large ones


Medium sized airports are just easier to use than big airports. Easier access, easier parking, easier TSA, less taxi time, less delays.

I live in Dallas. I'll take DAL every time I can over DFW. When flying into Chicago, I'll take MDW every time I can over ORD
 
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ACCS300
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:00 pm

What constitutes a large vs. medium airport? PDX is in the large category while YVR is in medium, YVR handles more passengers than PDX, 20.3M vs. 16.8M for 2015 ( wiki ) .
 
aviationjunky
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:19 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
What constitutes a large vs. medium airport? PDX is in the large category while YVR is in medium, YVR handles more passengers than PDX, 20.3M vs. 16.8M for 2015 ( wiki ) .


To be honest, I'm not really sure what qualifies as large or medium. From the looks of it, maybe it's international service? I'm not sure.
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33lspotter
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:29 pm

"Average" for JFK? That's quite generous. Terminal 4 is a disaster.
 
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ACCS300
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:32 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
What constitutes a large vs. medium airport? PDX is in the large category while YVR is in medium, YVR handles more passengers than PDX, 20.3M vs. 16.8M for 2015 ( wiki ) .


To be honest, I'm not really sure what qualifies as large or medium. From the looks of it, maybe it's international service? I'm not sure.


Thanks but that would then make YVR far larger than PDX, YVR's international traffic is massive compared to PDX. 10M YVR, 600K PDX
 
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knope2001
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:15 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
What constitutes a large vs. medium airport? PDX is in the large category while YVR is in medium, YVR handles more passengers than PDX, 20.3M vs. 16.8M for 2015 ( wiki ) .


To be honest, I'm not really sure what qualifies as large or medium. From the looks of it, maybe it's international service? I'm not sure.


In the US the designation is based on passenger traffic. A "Large Hub" airport carries at least 1.00% of total US traffic, "Medium Hub" is 0.25% to 1.00%. Where they placed the Canadian airports seems to have been a manual judgment call. if YVR has more passengers than PDX it deserves to be in the large category. PDX is the smallest of the "large" category.
 
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knope2001
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Looking further at Canada, they didn't really approach those airports with the same criteria as used in the US.

There are 30 large hub airports in the US, with #30 being Portland with about 16.7m annual passengers.
There are about 30 more medium-hub airports in the US, from #31 Dallas Love at about 14.0m annual passengers down to #60 Omaha at about 4.1m. (I thought Tucson made "medium" at 61 but apparently not)

Largest Canadian airports

Toronto at 41.0m would be a large hub (about #12) about the same size as MIA or IAH.
Vancouver at 20.3m would be a large hub (about #27) about the same size as IAD or SAN
Montreal and Calgary at about 15.5m each are on the cusp between medium and large (about #31) between PDX and DAL
Edmonton at 8.0m would be a medium hub (about #46) about the same size as SAT or CLE
Ottawa at 4.7m would be a medium hub airport (about #58) about the same as BUF or ABQ

To apply the same standard they should have Vancouver and perhaps Montreal in large category, and they should not have skipped Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa.
 
chrisair
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:10 pm

How in the hell do LAS and SAN score so high? Both of those airports are awful in certain areas--guess they don't survey passengers that fly WN or AS (at SAN).
 
aviationjunky
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:13 pm

chrisair wrote:
How in the hell do LAS and SAN score so high? Both of those airports are awful in certain areas--guess they don't survey passengers that fly WN or AS (at SAN).


I'm pretty sure the D-gates at LAS is what got them their rating. That and the new international terminal. WN uses B/C-Gates. Those gates are outdated, but they are slowly, VERY slowly, been updating over the last 5 years or so. If it were up to me, I would move WN to D-gates since that is where LAS gets most of it's passengers.
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chrisair
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:27 pm

aviationjunky wrote:

I'm pretty sure the D-gates at LAS is what got them their rating. That and the new international terminal. WN uses B/C-Gates. Those gates are outdated, but they are slowly, VERY slowly, been updating over the last 5 years or so. If it were up to me, I would move WN to D-gates since that is where LAS gets most of it's passengers.


No doubt the D/E gates at LAS are a billion times better than the WN gates. They've "updated" the WN gates to have new carpet and signs, but it's the same overcrowded, narrow mess that existed before. Don't forget they had to go back and renovate the gate areas again after they finished the first time.

The other reason LAS is surprising for me is the price of food. Einsteins' breakfasts in the LAS terminal will run you $20 for something that costs $5 outside the airport. It's crazy. Same with Burger King.
 
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atypical
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:48 am

J.D. Power (McGraw Hill Financial) combines US and Canadian airports into one survey. They separate large airport those that have 7 million or more enplanements per year as large and and medium as those with 1.9 to 7 million enplanements per year. The data captured from each group is the same and analyzed the same. Airports are not subdivided even when that may clarify the rankings
 
Dominion301
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:28 pm

knope2001 wrote:
Looking further at Canada, they didn't really approach those airports with the same criteria as used in the US.

There are 30 large hub airports in the US, with #30 being Portland with about 16.7m annual passengers.
There are about 30 more medium-hub airports in the US, from #31 Dallas Love at about 14.0m annual passengers down to #60 Omaha at about 4.1m. (I thought Tucson made "medium" at 61 but apparently not)

Largest Canadian airports

Toronto at 41.0m would be a large hub (about #12) about the same size as MIA or IAH.
Vancouver at 20.3m would be a large hub (about #27) about the same size as IAD or SAN
Montreal and Calgary at about 15.5m each are on the cusp between medium and large (about #31) between PDX and DAL
Edmonton at 8.0m would be a medium hub (about #46) about the same size as SAT or CLE
Ottawa at 4.7m would be a medium hub airport (about #58) about the same as BUF or ABQ

To apply the same standard they should have Vancouver and perhaps Montreal in large category, and they should not have skipped Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa.


Given how few airports they surveyed, this list is not very credible even for 'North America'...which apparently entirely excludes Mexico/Latin American and the Caribbean as part of the continent. And like you said excluding Canada's 5th through 8th largest airports, which handle a roughly combined 20m pax/year, doesn't exactly lend much credence to these 'awards'.

The true global benchmark is ACI's annual ASQ awards with well over 300 airports participating globally. J.D. Power's list I'd put on par with Skytrax...i.e. not a lot of value.
 
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atypical
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:18 am

Dominion301 wrote:
Given how few airports they surveyed, this list is not very credible even for 'North America'...which apparently entirely excludes Mexico/Latin American and the Caribbean as part of the continent. And like you said excluding Canada's 5th through 8th largest airports, which handle a roughly combined 20m pax/year, doesn't exactly lend much credence to these 'awards'.

The true global benchmark is ACI's annual ASQ awards with well over 300 airports participating globally. J.D. Power's list I'd put on par with Skytrax...i.e. not a lot of value.


It is not an unusual definition for "North America" to include just the US and Canada. Most people understand that concept of "North America" well enough and a statement like "US and Canada, including Hawaii, but excluding the US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico and US territories in the Pacific and Antarctica" while being more accurate does not convey more meaning.

The "true global benchmark is ACI's annual ASQ awards" is inferior to the JD Power list in several ways. First it only reports a relative rank with nothing indicating how close or far two airports might be a set scale and only reports on the best performers while ignoring those scoring lower. With the JD Power report I can actually see what was scored and if someday I see an airport with a score of 20 that will be much more valuable to me (as an airport to avoid by means necessary) than which ones ACI considers best.
 
Dominion301
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:07 pm

atypical wrote:
Dominion301 wrote:
Given how few airports they surveyed, this list is not very credible even for 'North America'...which apparently entirely excludes Mexico/Latin American and the Caribbean as part of the continent. And like you said excluding Canada's 5th through 8th largest airports, which handle a roughly combined 20m pax/year, doesn't exactly lend much credence to these 'awards'.

The true global benchmark is ACI's annual ASQ awards with well over 300 airports participating globally. J.D. Power's list I'd put on par with Skytrax...i.e. not a lot of value.


It is not an unusual definition for "North America" to include just the US and Canada. Most people understand that concept of "North America" well enough and a statement like "US and Canada, including Hawaii, but excluding the US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico and US territories in the Pacific and Antarctica" while being more accurate does not convey more meaning.

The "true global benchmark is ACI's annual ASQ awards" is inferior to the JD Power list in several ways. First it only reports a relative rank with nothing indicating how close or far two airports might be a set scale and only reports on the best performers while ignoring those scoring lower. With the JD Power report I can actually see what was scored and if someday I see an airport with a score of 20 that will be much more valuable to me (as an airport to avoid by means necessary) than which ones ACI considers best.


The ASQ report does rank all participating airports from 1st to last in quarterly reports to the airports, but the non-winners are not published to the general public like JD's (at least that I'm aware), so that I'll give you. The biggest problem with the JD survey is it does not evaluate enough cities/airports and listing YVR as smaller than PDX does not help with the report's credibility.
 
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:08 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
What constitutes a large vs. medium airport? PDX is in the large category while YVR is in medium, YVR handles more passengers than PDX, 20.3M vs. 16.8M for 2015 ( wiki ) .


To be honest, I'm not really sure what qualifies as large or medium. From the looks of it, maybe it's international service? I'm not sure.


Thanks but that would then make YVR far larger than PDX, YVR's international traffic is massive compared to PDX. 10M YVR, 600K PDX



PDX would have substantially more international passenger traffic if airlines flew international flights from here. YVR has flights to 36 international airports, PDX to 7----8 starting next year, and all but 2 of those are seasonal and/or non-daily. [Not counting YVR to US or PDX to Canada routes]

PDX also will top 18 million passengers in 2016, YVR forecasts 22 million. Portland and Vancouver have similar metro populations.
Major airports with no PDX nonstops: MIA, FLL, TPA, IND, MSY, CLE, CVG, PIT, RDU, CMH
 
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ACCS300
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:25 pm

jbpdx wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:

To be honest, I'm not really sure what qualifies as large or medium. From the looks of it, maybe it's international service? I'm not sure.


Thanks but that would then make YVR far larger than PDX, YVR's international traffic is massive compared to PDX. 10M YVR, 600K PDX



PDX would have substantially more international passenger traffic if airlines flew international flights from here. YVR has flights to 36 international airports, PDX to 7----8 starting next year, and all but 2 of those are seasonal and/or non-daily. [Not counting YVR to US or PDX to Canada routes]

PDX also will top 18 million passengers in 2016, YVR forecasts 22 million. Portland and Vancouver have similar metro populations.


I guess the main difference with YVR vs. PDX is that YVR is the premier Pacific gateway to an entire nation, much like SFO or LAX is to the US. If Canada had another Westcoast city in the 2-3M population range, then YVR would likely be more like PDX in international traffic. PDX's proximity to SEA and SFO likely undermines it's ability to attract large amounts international traffic and attract many premier international carriers. To a lesser degree, YYC also faces some of the same issues due to it's proximity to YVR.
 
phxsanslcpdx
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:54 pm

Please tell me that the new owners didn't really settle on "Ontario International Airport Airport," and it's just a typo. Kind of sloppy work from JD Power, assuming it's their error.

knope2001 wrote:
Looking further at Canada, they didn't really approach those airports with the same criteria as used in the US...

To apply the same standard they should have Vancouver and perhaps Montreal in large category, and they should not have skipped Calgary, Edmonton and Ottawa.


Agreed... Vancouver should've been "Large," and Edmonton & Ottawa should have been "Medium." I agree that they shouldn't have skipped Calgary, and they didn't--it's there on the "Medium" list. Calgary and Montreal, I think, belonged on the same list (which they are), and it's really a judgement call as to whether they're "Large" or "Medium."
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:48 pm

I agree about TPA. It has been an amazing airport to fly out of. I have flown all but 5 of the large and I think TPA is the best (and no it wasn't originally my home airport). I think what hurts TPA is restaraunts. Especially in Delta terminal. But once they get the remod done, that should improve.

I disagree with MIA. That is probably my least favorite. It's always a zoo. And Customs and Immigration is the worst.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
peterj324
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:10 am

As someone who has flown into many of the airports and TPA and MIA many times would disagree with how high MIA and TPA are ranked.

The TPA satellite terminals with each having their own security is pain, especially the very limited food and drink options. Other than that TPA is great but it is hard to overlook those satellite terminals.

I've also had some pretty awful MIA experiences. Thats where the longest lines for security and check in that I have ever experienced exist. Its decently set up but the security and customs are the worst I have ever experienced. Even worse than my EWR and JFK experiences.
 
BravoOne
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:47 am

My personal experience from flying out of SEATAC at least once a week for the last fifteen years is that this barley meets 3rd world standards, especially the restrooms in B concourse. What the hell were they thinking. More like early 60's than 2016. I feel for this pax traveling from modern airports in Asia only to arrive at this dump.
 
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SuseJ772
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:49 am

I agree about the food at TPA but they are working on improving that.

I am surprised about the satellite terminals comment though. I have flown out of TPA at least 40 times in the last three years and never waited in a TSA line more than 5 minutes in all terminals but the one serving WN. Even this morning out of UA terminal 2 days before Christmas was 5 minutes. I always gave the satellite terminals partial credit for that (the other being that TPA TSA was just better run, one of the few things that seem to better run in Florida than Atlanta from where I moved).
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
77H
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:01 pm

I was surprised OGG was second to last on the list of medium airports. The only negative thing I could say about it are the atrociously long TSA lines. Worst I've encountered at any airport.
 
ualcsr
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:49 pm

MIA has come a long way and while there's still work to do on the Central terminal, the South and North terminals are very nice. While TPA and other airports may have quicker lines, I'd assume the survey is based on several other factors such as, e.g., concessions. IMO, MIA has the best choice of restaurants/cafes of any US airport. And at least for me, while it can indeed be a "zoo", it feels like an international airport. TPA is nice and has international flights, but it doesn't have that big, international airport feeling. For some airline enthusiasts such as me, I like being in a big busy airport rather than what feels like a regional and boring airport.

Given that our President elect is a native New Yorker and has promised to update US infrastructure, I sure hope he does something about his home town airports. It is a bit embarassing that the US' largest city and biggest international gateway has three of the country's worst airports.
 
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KGRB
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:20 pm

I'm a little surprised MSP and especially DTW didn't rank higher on the list. At the same time, SLC and CLT seem overrated and PHL deserves more than two stars.

I'm glad to see PDX, DCA, and DEN with high rankings.
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atypical
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:37 pm

Dominion301 wrote:

:checkmark: The ASQ report does rank all participating airports from 1st to last in quarterly reports to the airports, but the non-winners are not published to the general public like JD's (at least that I'm aware), so that I'll give you. The biggest problem with the JD survey is it does not evaluate enough cities/airports and listing YVR as smaller than PDX does not help with the report's credibility.


Thanks, I was unaware of that and it is good to know.
 
luckyone
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:06 pm

As someone who lives in Chicago I would rate O'Hare much higher for ease of use and concessions. Midway's security line is also usually much longer in my experience, as they only have the one. An additional, purely personal factor also is the fact that O'Hare almost always allows me to use my federal employee ID to jump security, while Midway is less consistent.
 
DFW789ER
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sun Dec 25, 2016 10:53 pm

ACCS300 wrote:
aviationjunky wrote:
ACCS300 wrote:
What constitutes a large vs. medium airport? PDX is in the large category while YVR is in medium, YVR handles more passengers than PDX, 20.3M vs. 16.8M for 2015 ( wiki ) .


To be honest, I'm not really sure what qualifies as large or medium. From the looks of it, maybe it's international service? I'm not sure.


Thanks but that would then make YVR far larger than PDX, YVR's international traffic is massive compared to PDX. 10M YVR, 600K PDX


All surveys I've seen separate airports by # of pax. IMO, YVR is rated way too low, regardless of which category it falls.
 
777PHX
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:13 pm

Seems biased towards warm weather airports with 5 of the top 6 being in sunny, warm climates. And Portland isn't exactly known for nasty weather either.
 
b6sea
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:20 am

Kind of surprised to see SEA down with LAX, JFK, and FLL. I don't know that I would agree with that, but I also don't disagree that it's "about average." I just don't think JFK, LAX, or FLL are really what constitutes average for their airport sizes. I also think that whoever made this list has never been to SAN, because... really? That place needs a lot of work to be at the top of any airport ranking.

I do think that if you look at the number of points given to YVR, that it's about accurate. I agree that it's on the wrong list, but I think that if you compare it with its peers at the "adults table" that where it scores is comparable to reality.
 
b6sea
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Re: 2016 North American Airport Satisfaction Study

Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:29 am

BravoOne wrote:
My personal experience from flying out of SEATAC at least once a week for the last fifteen years is that this barley meets 3rd world standards, especially the restrooms in B concourse. What the hell were they thinking. More like early 60's than 2016. I feel for this pax traveling from modern airports in Asia only to arrive at this dump.


Perhaps, but if you've ever been to LAX or SAN, or FLL, or JFK (and I assume you have), you know there are far worse places that the B Concourse restrooms at SEA, which I can remember being renovated at least once in my (27-year) lifetime.

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