gengwank
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Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:13 am

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2054897/hong-kongs-cathay-dragon-plans-hk20b-aircraft-replacement

I wonder why KA would want to take in the 737..it basically means that they have to retrain all their pilots..
 
rufusmi
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:27 am

8 hours in a 320neo or 737-9 seems like a bit of a stretch...
 
briguychau
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:03 am

gengwank wrote:
I wonder why KA would want to take in the 737..it basically means that they have to retrain all their pilots..


Negotiating strategy?
 
ahj2000
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:25 am

I read this as "CathayDragon to buy A320/1neo a/c." The 737 thing is probably going to be a bargaining chip
-Andrés Juánez
 
Bluebird191
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:00 am

gengwank wrote:
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2054897/hong-kongs-cathay-dragon-plans-hk20b-aircraft-replacement

I wonder why KA would want to take in the 737..it basically means that they have to retrain all their pilots..


It's not unusual for airlines to change aircraft types - NZ went from the 733 to A320, MI from 737 to A319/320 then back again, JQ went from the 717 to A320/321 and the A332 to 788, CX from 744 to 773/77W, and the list goes on.
 
mwhcvt
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:13 am

gengwank wrote:
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/economy/article/2054897/hong-kongs-cathay-dragon-plans-hk20b-aircraft-replacement

I wonder why KA would want to take in the 737..it basically means that they have to retrain all their pilots..


Also it's not exactly unheard of for manufactures to assist in the retraining of pilots on to their aircraft, I now it was part of the deal with Airbus convinced U2 to switch from the 737 to A32X that they (Airbus) covered the retraining of U2s pilots onto the A320 Family
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
AngMoh
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:39 am

Bluebird191 wrote:
It's not unusual for airlines to change aircraft types - NZ went from the 733 to A320, MI from 737 to A319/320 then back again, JQ went from the 717 to A320/321 and the A332 to 788, CX from 744 to 773/77W, and the list goes on.


One of the reasons MI switched back from A320 to 737 was that Airbus was too convinced they had the order in the bag (everyone within MI also assumed the A320 would be the winner). MI wanted a better deal which Airbus was not willing to give but Boeing was willing so they got the deal.

Norwegian claimed that by ordering both the A320 as well as the 737, they got better pricing from both manufacturers.

Any airline which only considers one supplier seriously is going to overpay big time. It is negligent to to go for single source only except when it is a top-up of an existing fleet (and then the pricing is probably fixed by the original contract).
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TurnerJet
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:36 am

rufusmi wrote:
8 hours in a 320neo or 737-9 seems like a bit of a stretch...

Or maybe the A321neoLR could be a stretch too. Maybe also the widebody replacement to older A330 could be suggested too.
Plane is always everything. Live in the UK. World Traveler and travel to the world and everywhere, looking great everyday and love for Travelling. Very nice to live and work hard everyday (except weekend). :D
 
travelhound
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:52 am

Cathay Dragon's A330 fleet is relatively old with quite a few aircraft hovering around the 20 years of age mark.

With Cathay Pacific due to receive all of their A350's before 2022, I suspect they will be handing down their relatively new A330's to Cathay Dragon.
 
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ernestxwb
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:11 pm

travelhound wrote:
Cathay Dragon's A330 fleet is relatively old with quite a few aircraft hovering around the 20 years of age mark.

With Cathay Pacific due to receive all of their A350's before 2022, I suspect they will be handing down their relatively new A330's to Cathay Dragon.

5 are due to be transfered to KA in 2018 ;)
 
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mercure1
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:58 pm

Besides Silk, lets not forgot Air Canada which turned to the 737MAX instead of sticking with Airbus.

For the right terms we should not be shocked.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:46 pm

I'd have to think the A320/321 NEO have the advantage however it wouldn't surprise me if they end up with a Boeing order. CX is a difficult airline to predict in that they don't really have a "preferred" manufacturer and have operated many Airbus and Boeing aircraft. With KA receiving 5 A333s from CX in 2018 I think its safe to assume the A330 will continue to be the largest aircraft KA operates silencing the rumours that a 787-10 could be of interest.
 
Prost
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:33 pm

Does Cathay Dragon develop routes for Cathay Pacific to take over, and sometimes CX flights are handed off to KA? Or is there a bit of sibling rivalry where they protect their own routes?
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:49 pm

Prost wrote:
Does Cathay Dragon develop routes for Cathay Pacific to take over, and sometimes CX flights are handed off to KA? Or is there a bit of sibling rivalry where they protect their own routes?


Nope, KA handles most of the "regional routes" outside of the routes that command higher premium traffic. CX is slowly handing of more & more routes to KA to focus on their long haul lucrative routes.
 
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CCA
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:47 am

Be nice to see the 737 with a incorporated 787 sweetener deal down the line.
Enthusiast
 
behramjee
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:16 am

Seeing that HKG is a slot constrained airport and that all of KA's routes cater to both VFR and business traffic within the East Asia region, its best for their future narrow body fleet to revolve solely around the A321NEO as all of its currently operated A320 flights can be upgraded to the bigger aircraft due to all routes being mature by now.

Wide body should follow the CX lead and replace the A333s in due course with the A359.
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:43 pm

CCA wrote:
Be nice to see the 737 with a incorporated 787 sweetener deal down the line.


There are rumours CX are looking at the 787-10, I would imagine for KA as the A350-1000 will handle regional missions once the 773s leave the fleet. Personally I'd much rather see the 787-10 at CX with the A350-1000s over at KA along with a NEO order. Thats extremely unlikely though.
 
Motorhussy
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:00 pm

RL777 wrote:
There are rumours CX are looking at the 787-10, I would imagine for KA as the A350-1000 will handle regional missions once the 773s leave the fleet. Personally I'd much rather see the 787-10 at CX with the A350-1000s over at KA along with a NEO order.


KA has no routes suitable for the A350-1000 which is a longhaul aircraft. There is no way CX/KA would be paying for that level of performance to then turn around and not use it. KA does not have any 773's in their fleet, you're thinking of CX. The A350-1000 will replace the 77W and the 779 will replace the 77W at the top end (which replaced the 744), the A350-900 replaces the A343 & A333. The A333 goes to KA.

Yes I could see the 78X fitting with CX for premium Asian routes, but not KA for a while until the A333 fleet retires.
come visit the south pacific
 
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RL777
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:28 pm

Motorhussy wrote:
RL777 wrote:
There are rumours CX are looking at the 787-10, I would imagine for KA as the A350-1000 will handle regional missions once the 773s leave the fleet. Personally I'd much rather see the 787-10 at CX with the A350-1000s over at KA along with a NEO order.


KA has no routes suitable for the A350-1000 which is a longhaul aircraft. There is no way CX/KA would be paying for that level of performance to then turn around and not use it. KA does not have any 773's in their fleet, you're thinking of CX. The A350-1000 will replace the 77W and the 779 will replace the 77W at the top end (which replaced the 744), the A350-900 replaces the A343 & A333. The A333 goes to KA.

Yes I could see the 78X fitting with CX for premium Asian routes, but not KA for a while until the A333 fleet retires.


The majority of the A350-1000s will be used for regional missions with the 779/A359 eventually taking over most LH/ULH missions. The A350-900 is much needed as there are routes in the CX network that have been served for years by 77W that don't require that much capacity. The A350-1000 will eventually operate to Australia but CX haven't hinted at anything beyond that for long haul flying. CX and other carriers have a history of "misuse" of aircraft so its not out of the ordinary for them. I do agree its a bit early for KA A330 replacement, but keep in mind they will be getting older frames for CX.
 
peterj324
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:21 am

This order, as already mentioned, is Airbus's to lose. I would be shocked if they don't choose the A321NEO. The only chance Boeing has at a spoiler would be the 737MAX-200 but I don't think Cathay Dragon is ready to become an ULCC just yet.
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:31 am

Prost wrote:
Does Cathay Dragon develop routes for Cathay Pacific to take over, and sometimes CX flights are handed off to KA? Or is there a bit of sibling rivalry where they protect their own routes?


KA transferred some flights to key citiies (eg. PEK and PVG) to CX so that people will have the feeling that they are flying CX all the way.
Besides, CX is transferring certain destinations to KA, particulary those Asia cities with relativly low yield to take the advantage of KA's lower cost structure.
for example, KUL will soon transferred to KA in early 2017.
 
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NeBaNi
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:58 am

peterj324 wrote:
I don't think Cathay Dragon is ready to become an ULCC just yet.

Just flew KA last week and they are more a (high-quality) full-service carrier than LCC. The A330 was a little tired-looking on the inside, but the IFE, service and standards were impeccable, well up to CX standards.
 
yonahleung
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:14 am

peterj324 wrote:
This order, as already mentioned, is Airbus's to lose. I would be shocked if they don't choose the A321NEO. The only chance Boeing has at a spoiler would be the 737MAX-200 but I don't think Cathay Dragon is ready to become an ULCC just yet.


Well...their A320s in coach (even those after the recent refit), lacks a proper IFE and seat pitch is practically identical to the ULCC A320 seating next door (i.e. HK Express), the KA A320 hard product is worse than HKExpress and the only differentiator is the luggage allowance, the meal and the mileage. It is not hard to see why KA had to abandon Hiroshima when UO gave them the run for its money.

That said, I fully expect this to be an Airbus order when KA is wholly built around an Airbus fleet. Although it will certainly be very nice to see some 737s based in HKG.
 
ZK-NBT
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:05 am

RL777 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:
RL777 wrote:
There are rumours CX are looking at the 787-10, I would imagine for KA as the A350-1000 will handle regional missions once the 773s leave the fleet. Personally I'd much rather see the 787-10 at CX with the A350-1000s over at KA along with a NEO order.


KA has no routes suitable for the A350-1000 which is a longhaul aircraft. There is no way CX/KA would be paying for that level of performance to then turn around and not use it. KA does not have any 773's in their fleet, you're thinking of CX. The A350-1000 will replace the 77W and the 779 will replace the 77W at the top end (which replaced the 744), the A350-900 replaces the A343 & A333. The A333 goes to KA.

Yes I could see the 78X fitting with CX for premium Asian routes, but not KA for a while until the A333 fleet retires.


The majority of the A350-1000s will be used for regional missions with the 779/A359 eventually taking over most LH/ULH missions. The A350-900 is much needed as there are routes in the CX network that have been served for years by 77W that don't require that much capacity. The A350-1000 will eventually operate to Australia but CX haven't hinted at anything beyond that for long haul flying. CX and other carriers have a history of "misuse" of aircraft so its not out of the ordinary for them. I do agree its a bit early for KA A330 replacement, but keep in mind they will be getting older frames for CX.


Curious where is it coming from that CX will use the A35J regionally? Last I heard is that they won't have F cabins but will have a super J cabin whatever that means. They will take 5 773's from EK in 2018 which is more a short term 5-7 year plan but these replace the 772's or are meant to. I just can't see them using brand new A35J's dedicated to regional, they talked earlier about reconfiguring 77W's for regional use but the MTOW can't be reduced to allow more efficient use and lower landing fees?

As for KA probably more A333's and A321NEO's?
 
TurnerJet
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Re: Hong Kong’s Cathay Dragon plans HK$20b aircraft replacement programme

Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:09 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
RL777 wrote:
Motorhussy wrote:

KA has no routes suitable for the A350-1000 which is a longhaul aircraft. There is no way CX/KA would be paying for that level of performance to then turn around and not use it. KA does not have any 773's in their fleet, you're thinking of CX. The A350-1000 will replace the 77W and the 779 will replace the 77W at the top end (which replaced the 744), the A350-900 replaces the A343 & A333. The A333 goes to KA.

Yes I could see the 78X fitting with CX for premium Asian routes, but not KA for a while until the A333 fleet retires.


The majority of the A350-1000s will be used for regional missions with the 779/A359 eventually taking over most LH/ULH missions. The A350-900 is much needed as there are routes in the CX network that have been served for years by 77W that don't require that much capacity. The A350-1000 will eventually operate to Australia but CX haven't hinted at anything beyond that for long haul flying. CX and other carriers have a history of "misuse" of aircraft so its not out of the ordinary for them. I do agree its a bit early for KA A330 replacement, but keep in mind they will be getting older frames for CX.


Curious where is it coming from that CX will use the A35J regionally? Last I heard is that they won't have F cabins but will have a super J cabin whatever that means. They will take 5 773's from EK in 2018 which is more a short term 5-7 year plan but these replace the 772's or are meant to. I just can't see them using brand new A35J's dedicated to regional, they talked earlier about reconfiguring 77W's for regional use but the MTOW can't be reduced to allow more efficient use and lower landing fees?

As for KA probably more A333's and A321NEO's?

So does the A350-1000 will also take the LH/ULH routes such as routes to Africa, North America and others?
Plane is always everything. Live in the UK. World Traveler and travel to the world and everywhere, looking great everyday and love for Travelling. Very nice to live and work hard everyday (except weekend). :D

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