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AirbusMDCFAN
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Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:50 pm

Link/Source: http://www.avherald.com/h?article=4a21890f&opt=0


A Spirit A320NEO started to develop engine issues (# 2 P&W 1100) and air returned to ORD were the flight originated.
the. tail # was N903NK
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 1:57 pm

Is this the first or second engine failure/shutdown/diversion for spirit on the A320neo? Inflight shutdowns or air turn backs are always reported events so Spririt will certainly be working with the FAA, Airbus and Pratt to find root cause.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:50 pm

Second. The other one is still sitting on the ground somewhere IIRC.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:38 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Second. The other one is still sitting on the ground somewhere IIRC.

DFW.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:27 pm

Does this mean that half of the A320neo fleet for Spirit is grounded with engine problems? With the PW1100G production problems, are there enough spare engines to support the fleet? Industry average is that an airline needs a spare pool of 10%. That means spirit should have 1 spare engine, but do they?
 
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Polot
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:31 pm

N901NK (the Neo that had the engine issue and was sitting at DFW) had its engine replaced (or fixed) a few weeks ago and is back in service.
 
raddek
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:54 pm

NK is the launch customer for the Pratts. So of course a new engine will have its kinks. Mid-Air shutdown isn't a pretty situation, but im confident the Pratt folks will hit all the data they can to figure out if that particular engine is a lemon, or if it's an issue with all the Pratts
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:07 pm

raddek wrote:
NK is the launch customer for the Pratts. So of course a new engine will have its kinks. Mid-Air shutdown isn't a pretty situation, but im confident the Pratt folks will hit all the data they can to figure out if that particular engine is a lemon, or if it's an issue with all the Pratts


The good news is that Spirit is not flying the airplane ETOPS. ETOPS has requirements for inflight shutdowns rate where two shutdowns on such a small fleet would result in FAA scrutiny and potential ETOPS restrictions. I am certain Pratt, Spirit and Airbus will thoroughly investigate. Spirit is an interesting airline to be the one working technical entry into service issues. They don't have the engineering resources that Lufthansa or Qatar Airways have, but I am sure Pratt has an army of people involved.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:30 pm

raddek wrote:
NK is the launch customer for the Pratts. So of course a new engine will have its kinks. Mid-Air shutdown isn't a pretty situation, but im confident the Pratt folks will hit all the data they can to figure out if that particular engine is a lemon, or if it's an issue with all the Pratts


They aren't even close to being the launch customer, LH put them into service almost a year ago now.
 
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Channex757
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:31 pm

I'm sure I'll get criticised for my use of terminology, but a lot of these early faults tend to be "scruffy" faults. Stuff like connectors working loose, pipes doing the same, seals that haven't been properly lubricated and sited bursting under pressure. Nothing like a major incident where a turbine disk lets go. They tend to be a lot more disruptive than the same would be ten years down the line as spares are as yet not as widely distributed about they greater airline networks (part sharing) so a quick change item can become instead a couple of days grounding whilst a part gets located and FedExed to the location.

All the fun of the fair when you are an early adopter of new technology.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:45 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
raddek wrote:
NK is the launch customer for the Pratts. So of course a new engine will have its kinks. Mid-Air shutdown isn't a pretty situation, but im confident the Pratt folks will hit all the data they can to figure out if that particular engine is a lemon, or if it's an issue with all the Pratts


They aren't even close to being the launch customer, LH put them into service almost a year ago now.


They are the North America launch customer. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:33 pm

Mid-air shutdowns are not rare, it even happens on the most reliable engines. You will find quite some engine shutdown incidents on The Aviation Herald.

N901NK suffered a wiped bearing and required an engine replacement and repairs to the pylon.

No idea what happened to N903NK. It could be the same issue as N901NK or maybe something else. The cause could be as simple as a faulty sensor.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
b747400erf
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:09 pm

A380 and 787 teething issues were front page news, why is the NEO not getting a lot of publicity?
 
nikeherc
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:50 pm

L
b747400erf wrote:
A380 and 787 teething issues were front page news, why is the NEO not getting a lot of publicity?

Probably because there have only been two. The problems with the 787 were more diverse as it was a totally new airframe I.e. Windshields, batteries, computers, etc. The A380 was in the same league. The engines are certified before flight testing begins, meaning they gave several years of experience before a test airframe even rolls out.

Also, people would prefer to talk in generalities -"The (Boeing, Airbus, Canadair) model xox is a lemon!" Than get specific with respect to GE, Rolls or P&W.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
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rotating14
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:08 pm

b747400erf wrote:
A380 and 787 teething issues were front page news, why is the NEO not getting a lot of publicity?


It's because both the 787 and the A380 were billed as revolutionary and game changing aircraft when they were in the development stages. If anyone who has followed both of the programs, there was more changing and redesign than game changing. The A320 NEO is just a new engine with slight aero improvements on an old frame, just like the Boeing MAX aircraft to debut next year. :airplane:
 
RacheyFlies
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:43 pm

So is there any status of N901NK now or it's already active back?
The best plane I've flown is an A380. They were the biggest and the best than other plane I've been on. :lol:
 
MesaFlyGuy
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:55 pm

TurnerJet wrote:
So is there any status of N901NK now or it's already active back?


It's been back in service for a couple of week now.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
NKNEO
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:29 am

now we have 902 here in dallas for a while waiting for a engine change also like 901
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:39 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Mid-air shutdowns are not rare, it even happens on the most reliable engines. You will find quite some engine shutdown incidents on The Aviation Herald.

N901NK suffered a wiped bearing and required an engine replacement and repairs to the pylon.

No idea what happened to N903NK. It could be the same issue as N901NK or maybe something else. The cause could be as simple as a faulty sensor.


I will echo that. In flight shutdowns are not rare. There probably is about one a day in the United States.

What is unusual is an inflight shutdown resulting in an engine change for an engine with less than 1000 hours on it. Most engines go somewhere around 6,000-12,000 hours between engine changes. Some CFM56s and V2500s can go three times that number before an engine change.
 
Woodreau
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:56 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
Most engines go somewhere around 6,000-12,000 hours between engine changes. Some CFM56s and V2500s can go three times that number before an engine change.


We had an LM-2500 gas turbine engine aboard ship that lasted 17 years before it has to be changed. It was the third oldest LM-2500 and GE wanted their engine back so they could study how their engine survived that long....
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:09 am

Woodreau wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
Most engines go somewhere around 6,000-12,000 hours between engine changes. Some CFM56s and V2500s can go three times that number before an engine change.


We had an LM-2500 gas turbine engine aboard ship that lasted 17 years before it has to be changed. It was the third oldest LM-2500 and GE wanted their engine back so they could study how their engine survived that long....


I think the record for hours on wing is about 50,000 hours in a CFM56-7. The engine was installed on a TUI 737-800 for 13 years before being removed to replace some life limited parts. I think prior to that it was 40,000 hours for an RB211 on an Icelandair 757.

The narrowbody engines are so reliable today. Although it looks like the PW1100G may have slightly lower fuel burn, the CFM engine reliability and maintenance costs can offset those. I am sure that Pratt can work through these early problems, but I don't know if the PW1100G will ever go 50,000 hours on wing between shop visits.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:53 am

raddek wrote:
NK is the launch customer for the Pratts. So of course a new engine will have its kinks. Mid-Air shutdown isn't a pretty situation, but im confident the Pratt folks will hit all the data they can to figure out if that particular engine is a lemon, or if it's an issue with all the Pratts


No Lufthansa was launch customer for the engine flowed by several other before Spirit got theirs.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:06 am

Indigo had similar problems with initial 2 Neo s with Pratt engines. Their solution was best- halt deliveries and force Airbus to fix them. With their largest customer refusing to take deliveries, they had to work and now Indigo has mostly flawless Pratt engines.
 
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flee
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:14 am

It would seem that the CFM LEAP has a better reliability record. I do not recall seeing reports of CFM LEAP engines being shut down mid flight.
 
AA737-823
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:33 am

Newbiepilot wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
raddek wrote:
NK is the launch customer for the Pratts. So of course a new engine will have its kinks. Mid-Air shutdown isn't a pretty situation, but im confident the Pratt folks will hit all the data they can to figure out if that particular engine is a lemon, or if it's an issue with all the Pratts


They aren't even close to being the launch customer, LH put them into service almost a year ago now.


They are the North America launch customer. Sorry for the confusion.


It's still just as irrelevant; the engines have been flying for over a year, so that fact that Spirit just got theirs doesn't mean that teething issues are acceptable.

I have high hopes for the GTF and Pratt; as of now, they seem to be doing what they do best, though: failing to deliver.

flee wrote:
blah blah CFM is better...


I believe that the CFM-LEAP hasn't been flying as long, or on as many airframes, as the PW GTF. Also, the CFM has some other compromises in its design- some of which are very significant. These engines will NOT be setting on-wing time records. But the operators know that already; higher EGT's rarely result in lengthy lifespans. The PW seems to keep surprising, and not in good ways. BUT I'm still rooting for them!
 
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flee
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:31 am

AA737-823 wrote:
I believe that the CFM-LEAP hasn't been flying as long, or on as many airframes, as the PW GTF. Also, the CFM has some other compromises in its design- some of which are very significant. These engines will NOT be setting on-wing time records. But the operators know that already; higher EGT's rarely result in lengthy lifespans. The PW seems to keep surprising, and not in good ways. BUT I'm still rooting for them!

It would be premature to say which engine is better - we need more operational data that can only be accumulated as more operators take delivery of their aircraft.

From an airline's point of view, an aircraft has to fly and make money for them. AoGs don't make money for them!

PW really need to fix this as airlines that have not ordered their narrow body aircraft replacements may be influenced by these non-performing engine stories.
 
Sparrow787
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:02 am

One of their NEOs came through LGA saturday afternoon, 603NK IIRC.
 
AirbusMDCFAN
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:36 am

Sparrow787 wrote:
One of their NEOs came through LGA saturday afternoon, 603NK IIRC.


603NK is a regular A320-232 CEO with the IAe V2500 engines
 
spacecookie
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:33 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Mid-air shutdowns are not rare, it even happens on the most reliable engines. You will find quite some engine shutdown incidents on The Aviation Herald.

N901NK suffered a wiped bearing and required an engine replacement and repairs to the pylon.

No idea what happened to N903NK. It could be the same issue as N901NK or maybe something else. The cause could be as simple as a faulty sensor.

if you look the big picture, its not a big deal the amount of inflight shut downs.
But if you look how many of this new pratt engines are around and the shut down they have it will change a little bit.
 
Sparrow787
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:29 pm

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Sparrow787 wrote:
One of their NEOs came through LGA saturday afternoon, 603NK IIRC.


603NK is a regular A320-232 CEO with the IAe V2500 engines


Then it was 903NK, let me get the terrible pictures I took haha
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Spirit Airlines A320NEO Engine issues

Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:53 am

Doesn't look like N903NK was grounded, it is still in service:

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n903nk

N902NK on the other hand is waiting for engine replacement as it suffered a similar issue as N901NK.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.

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