J343
Topic Author
Posts: 293
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:11 am

Hey guys,

I was just wondering, is CX and BA ever gonna get into a JV for flights betweeen the UK and HK considering CX has recently boosted their flights to the UK (5x daily B77Ws to LHR, LGW going daily with A359 and MAN 5x weekly service) and that HKG being the 5th busiest international route from LHR by passenger numbers. Wouldn't it make sense if they cooperated on this sector considering BA sends 1x A380 and 1x B77W on a daily basis and that a codesharing agreement should be in place for flights from HKG to Asia and to Europe from LHR.

I'm not entirely sure but has CX and BA always had a sour relationship just like QF and CX does? There was an article I read on a travel magazine saying that oneworld alliance of all the 3 big alliances are the most cohesive compared to Skyteam and Star Alliance. I personally don't think that CX is that committed to oneworld.


Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Happy Holidays! :)
 
teriyaki
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:11 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:56 am

CX and BA and to an extent AA definitely have a better relationship when compared to other alliances. I'm looking at you, DL and KE over in Skyteam. CX does great on their flights to the UK, don't see them exploring the JV path anytime soon if they can do it alone and reap the rewards.
 
rufusmi
Posts: 204
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:15 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:09 am

What oneworld airline does CX have a great relationship with? Both BA and AA have pretty lukewarm relationships with CX, and QF's is pretty sour as another poster mentioned. QR and CX had a deal for a little while, and then that fell through. MH and CX really don't seem to get along that well either.

What strong relationships does CX have with other airlines? Or can it just support itself?
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2106
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:27 am

I don't think it is legally possible to have a JV with CX, due to Mainland Chinese regulations. I could be wrong though.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:53 am

teriyaki wrote:
CX and BA and to an extent AA definitely have a better relationship when compared to other alliances.

Where are you getting that from?
CX and AA barely cooperate, let alone have a "better relationship" than just about anyone.

And yes, that includes DL/KE.... who, while they squabble, will still put butts in each others' seats (albeit at shitty FFP accrual).

But go onto AA.com and try redeeming an AAdvantage trip on CX metal.
Especially on at trip departing from the west coast. Might find some, but you'll be there all day trying.

Or even just booking one. AA's loyalty is to JL, they couldn't give a squirt of squirrel piss about CX.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:21 am

USAirALB wrote:
I don't think it is legally possible to have a JV with CX, due to Mainland Chinese regulations. I could be wrong though.

You were correct on the conclusion, but wrong on the reasoning.

HK has a separate bilteral than that of the Mainland.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
ernestxwb
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:10 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:45 am

CX and JL seems to have a decent relationship
 
Kashmon
Posts: 642
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:08 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:57 am

CX does not have a good relationship with anyone beyond a few codeshares and OW does not really give CX any incentive to be loyal.
Air China is a shareholder and vice versa yet co operation is minimal

If they hardly cooperate with a shareholder, why would one expect them to cooperate with anyone else

and why should they?
no offense but
BA's capacity to HK is cute compared to CX to UK
ditto with AA and USA
and definitely with Australia and QF
JL CX just tolerates so they would not leave for sky team
MH- CX hates everyone in south east asia

historically CX and BA were enemies, same as QF

in fact LH and CX historically and even now work closely- especially with Cargo
CX works ok NZ.. ( AFAIK this is the only route where CX aggressively promotes another airline).
now CX is commencing a relationship with AC..
and of course CA is a shareholder...

CX just does what it wants
 
TurnerJet
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:12 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:52 am

In fact I've view that CX and BA does not have codeshare flight between HK and UK i've found in Flightstats. The other thing is BA flights to HKG are only codeshare with IAG partner Iberia and Aer Lingus (if not mistaken) and CX only have a codeshare with JJ and AA between LHR and HKG. BA also have a codeshare with them between LHR and over 30 cities in Europe and in the UK and Ireland while CX codeshare with BA does taken to more than 10 cities in Asia such as DPS, SUB, CGK, SGN, BKK, SYD, MEL, BNE, AKL and more. Maybe I'm correct for codeshares between the 2 airline if possible?
Plane is always everything. Live in the UK. World Traveler and travel to the world and everywhere, looking great everyday and love for Travelling. Very nice to live and work hard everyday (except weekend). :D
 
User avatar
vhtje
Posts: 1084
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:40 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:29 am

What chu talkin' 'bout, Willis?

CX has a fairly extensive codeshare arrangement with BA. From the CX website:

CathayPacific wrote:
Codeshare covers British Airways flights between London and Berlin, Copenhagen, Dusseldorf, Hamburg, Lisbon, Lyon, Manchester, Munich, Newcastle, Nice, Prague, Stockholm, Stuttgart and Zurich, as well as Cathay Pacific flights between Hong Kong and Adelaide, Auckland, Brisbane, Cairns, Denpasar, Ho Chi Minh City, Jakarta, Kuala Lumpur, Melbourne, Perth, Seoul, Sydney, Surabaya.



I think CX get on well with AY. Book LHR to SYD via the Reindeer Route and you are nearly always offered CX to SYD via HKG over QF. QF can be offered, but it is nearly always more expensive than the CX flight.

In fact, looking at the CX site, they have fairly extensive codeshare arrangements with most of the oneworld carriers - the only notable missing one is, of course, QF.

http://www.cathaypacific.com/cx/en_GB/a ... ships.html
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
NH203
Posts: 155
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:39 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:07 am

LAX772LR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I don't think it is legally possible to have a JV with CX, due to Mainland Chinese regulations. I could be wrong though.

You were correct on the conclusion, but wrong on the reasoning.

HK has a separate bilteral than that of the Mainland.


CX has a JV with NZ currently and had one with QR in the past. That doesn't sound like HK airlines can't enter into JV agreements per se.
 
jumpjets
Posts: 1447
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:16 am

NH203 wrote:

CX has a JV with NZ currently and had one with QR in the past. That doesn't sound like HK airlines can't enter into JV agreements per se.


Maybe the near monopoly on the LON-HKG route that a CX/BA JV would have (just one VS flight would be outside the JV) effectively precludes any chance of a JV application getting past the regulators?
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3025
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:29 am

Never understand this a.netter infatuation with the idea that the Alliances are/could/should be effective virtual airlines - Its anti competitive and far away from benefiting the consumer.

Cathay and BA are fearse COMPETITORs on the UK-HKG market and that is as it should be.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:05 am

NH203 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I don't think it is legally possible to have a JV with CX, due to Mainland Chinese regulations. I could be wrong though.

You were correct on the conclusion, but wrong on the reasoning.

HK has a separate bilteral than that of the Mainland.

CX has a JV with NZ currently and had one with QR in the past. That doesn't sound like HK airlines can't enter into JV agreements per se.

I (and I assumed that he was too, so my bad on that part) was speaking in terms of the USA.

No idea of the HK bilateral with other countries.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:48 am

With the dominance of BA and CX on UK-HKG routings any JV approved by the competition authorities would most certainly require BA and CX to surrender valuable LHR slots to benefit the consumer by maintaining some reasonable level of competition as they required for both the BA/AA JV and the BA purchase of BD.

Personally I can see no net advantage that would accrue to either BA or CX from such an arrangement. This would be particularly true as the surrendered LHR arrival slot(s) would almost certainly be at peak time with an early morning arrival.

So I think it unlikely that we will see anything more than the current situation. Here BA has a code share on a CX KUL-HKG flight (BA4564) that, combined with their own LHR-KUL (BA033) flight, is offered on their web site as an alternative to their two direct LHR-HKG flights. They also list two other indirect routings. They both operate LHR-NRT-HKG, the second leg being a BA code share on JL metal.

Am I missing something? Would the surrender of even one such valuable slot be exceeded by the accrued value to either or both airlines of a JV on the HKG route?
 
jfk777
Posts: 7201
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:41 pm

Cathay and BA do partner beyond the LHR to HKG route. BA puts its code on flights to Australia and BA provides CX with enough passengers at Heathrow to fill two 777 daily( out of 5 daily 777). A JV probably would not work as the two airline control all daily flights except for one Virgin flight daily, the possibility of surrendering a slot is very unappealing. Cathay has a history of "going it alone" which seems to work for them. They dominate the Hong Kong to North America routes and are the largest single airline from the HKG to the UK.

We are in an era where the US3 and EU3 have JV's over the Atlantic and often over the Pacific and Europe to Asia too. Cathay is anti JV and it seems to work for them. They love their 77W and when many wonder why they don't have A380 one can't argue with their results.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:20 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Cathay is anti JV and it seems to work for them.

No they aren't. They're currently in a J/V now.



jfk777 wrote:
many wonder why they don't have A380

Who are these "many?"

....anyone paying attention would know the answer, as CX has publicly stated it multiple times:
They didn't feel that the A388 is of a sufficient size increase over their current eqp, in order to justify the implementation cost.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:11 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Where are you getting that from?
CX and AA barely cooperate, let alone have a "better relationship" than just about anyone.


And where are you getting that from?

Cathay and AA do far more than "barely" cooperate. Indeed, given that the two are still ostensible competitors without ATI or a JV, and given Cathay's generally more distant approach to deep integration with most partners in general, I'd say the cooperation between Cathay and AA is pretty extensive. Setting aside the fact that the two exchange literally thousands of connecting passengers per week between their two networks, across dozens of codeshare routes including all of each others' transpacific flights in and out of HKG, the two also have a fairly unique relationship - even if somewhat arms-length - related to corporate contracts. And of course, there is also all of the reciprocal oneworld frequent flyer benefits.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:17 pm

commavia wrote:
Cathay and AA do far more than "barely" cooperate.

Such as ____?
About the extent you're going to get, is domestic beyond flights on AA from Asian origin.

In potential routings from the US p.o.s., AA is going to push JL over CX every chance they get, to the point of making it either 1) unavailable or 2) prohibitive for the US side to select CX via AA.


commavia wrote:
And of course, there is also all of the reciprocal oneworld frequent flyer benefits.

Which is awesome in theory, but like I said, good luck using AAdvantage for such, especially from the west coast.

Try booking a J award on CX via AA without having to call in and spend half an hour on the phone, even for an elite hotline; and if you get them to do it, then please share the secret.

I even called both BA and QF to see if I could create a dummy trip using their mileage (which I didn't have) in order to just see if CX released the space for redemption at ANY level (wasn't even bothering with Saaver). No joy.

Anecdotal? Sure, but as someone who just spent two months trying/failing that very thing, before eventually giving up because instant upgrade space opened up on AA193, I ask: what effective good is it, if it's that difficult to use?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:25 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Such as ____?


I just listed the such as - to repeat one final time, the two partners codeshare extensively across each others' networks, including on all flights between HKG and U.S. hubs, and on dozens of routes beyond/behind HKG and AA's U.S. hubs. This accounts for literally thousands of connections per week, and I'd hardly call that "barely cooperating." And, again, they also have a unique relationship related to corporate contracts which substantially contributes to Cathay Pacific's U.S. POS.

LAX772LR wrote:
Which is awesome in theory, but like I said, good luck using AAdvantage for such, especially from the west coast.

Try booking a J award on CX via AA without having to call in and spend half an hour on the phone, even for an elite hotline; and if you get through, then share the secret. I even called both BA and QF to see if I could create a dummy trip using their mileage (which I didn't have) in order to just see if CX released the space for redemption at ANY level (wasn't even bothering with Saaver). No joy.

Anecdotal? Sure, but as someone who just spent two months trying/failing that very thing, before eventually giving up because instant upgrade space opened up on AA193, I ask: what effective good is it if it's that difficult to use?


There is more to reciprocal frequent flyer benefits than award availability - which, in my experience, is frankly difficult on many partners - and it's far from difficult to use them. As alternative anecdotal experience, I'm an AA frequent flyer who has flown on Cathay Pacific numerous times, and enjoy being able to earn my elite-qualifying miles when doing so (regardless of marketing carrier), as well as using Cathay Pacific's lounges, priority check-in and boarding, etc.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24058
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:32 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
CX and AA barely cooperate, let alone have a "better relationship" than just about anyone.

And yes, that includes DL/KE.... who, while they squabble, will still put butts in each others' seats (albeit at shitty FFP accrual).

But go onto AA.com and try redeeming an AAdvantage trip on CX metal.
Especially on at trip departing from the west coast. Might find some, but you'll be there all day trying.

Or even just booking one. AA's loyalty is to JL, they couldn't give a squirt of squirrel piss about CX.


We must live in very different worlds.

I see tons of CX flights on AA.com. Matter of fact I was just looking for a January trip and was offered CX segment for transpacific and for intra-Asia connections.

Also AA/CX have been code sharing since 2000 and matter of fact expanded the number of city pairs significantly earlier this year.
On the US end alone CX codeshare to the maximum allotted 25 cities beyond its US gateways on AA, while AA does the same on CX both on transpacific segments, and intra-Asia segments.

And as far as redeeming AAdvantage miles on CX, I do it yearly. Matter of fact just flew two biz tickets in November with the wife.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 756
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:43 pm

You're right and wrong. AA doesn't allow/ their web site isn't configured at all - for any CX redemptions online. You have to call. As you do for most of their partner carriers (including Iberia). It's annoying.

That said, I was able to secure J class ORD-HKG-BKK using AA miles on CX. My friends who are originating in LAX had no trouble securing J seats on CX LAX-HKG-BKK for our trip in February, and there were a lot of options.

So, what I'm saying, don't be so resolute.

LAX772LR wrote:
commavia wrote:
Cathay and AA do far more than "barely" cooperate.

Such as ____?
About the extent you're going to get, is domestic beyond flights on AA from Asian origin.

In potential routings from the US p.o.s., AA is going to push JL over CX every chance they get, to the point of making it either 1) unavailable or 2) prohibitive for the US side to select CX via AA.


commavia wrote:
And of course, there is also all of the reciprocal oneworld frequent flyer benefits.

Which is awesome in theory, but like I said, good luck using AAdvantage for such, especially from the west coast.

Try booking a J award on CX via AA without having to call in and spend half an hour on the phone, even for an elite hotline; and if you get them to do it, then please share the secret.

I even called both BA and QF to see if I could create a dummy trip using their mileage (which I didn't have) in order to just see if CX released the space for redemption at ANY level (wasn't even bothering with Saaver). No joy.

Anecdotal? Sure, but as someone who just spent two months trying/failing that very thing, before eventually giving up because instant upgrade space opened up on AA193, I ask: what effective good is it, if it's that difficult to use?
 
keitherson
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:56 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
commavia wrote:
Cathay and AA do far more than "barely" cooperate.

Such as ____?
About the extent you're going to get, is domestic beyond flights on AA from Asian origin.

In potential routings from the US p.o.s., AA is going to push JL over CX every chance they get, to the point of making it either 1) unavailable or 2) prohibitive for the US side to select CX via AA.


commavia wrote:
And of course, there is also all of the reciprocal oneworld frequent flyer benefits.

Which is awesome in theory, but like I said, good luck using AAdvantage for such, especially from the west coast.

Try booking a J award on CX via AA without having to call in and spend half an hour on the phone, even for an elite hotline; and if you get them to do it, then please share the secret.

I even called both BA and QF to see if I could create a dummy trip using their mileage (which I didn't have) in order to just see if CX released the space for redemption at ANY level (wasn't even bothering with Saaver). No joy.

Anecdotal? Sure, but as someone who just spent two months trying/failing that very thing, before eventually giving up because instant upgrade space opened up on AA193, I ask: what effective good is it, if it's that difficult to use?

If you are judging a carrier's cooperation/ties with another carrier based on free award seats and mileage upgrades, you are really out of it and have no idea what you are talking about.

Neither CX or JL can be booked through AA.com and that has always been the case. Yes, AA, a joint venture partner of JL, will not have their award seats show up on AA.com.

Also, AA miles are almost worthless these days given how hard they are to redeem. Seats at the sAAver level have been next to nonexistent for some time now: try looking at any South America to USA route that AA runs.

CX realized the problem with oneworld partners selling and giving cheap mileage away for people that redeemed for their own metal, and took seats away from members of their own program. So guess what, CX is now limiting the space for their own Asia Miles members. Tough.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7201
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:28 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Cathay is anti JV and it seems to work for them.

No they aren't. They're currently in a J/V now.



jfk777 wrote:
many wonder why they don't have A380

Who are these "many?"

....anyone paying attention would know the answer, as CX has publicly stated it multiple times:
They didn't feel that the A388 is of a sufficient size increase over their current eqp, in order to justify the implementation cost.


who are they in a JV with ? Qatar. They are not in one with JAL, AA, BA or Qantas. SO who is this JV with ?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:10 am

jasoncrh wrote:
AA doesn't allow/ their web site isn't configured at all - for any CX redemptions online. You have to call. As you do for most of their partner carriers (including Iberia). It's annoying.

Indeed, it is. As stated, that's exactly what I had to do. Usually have more success calling BA/QF first.


keitherson wrote:
Neither CX or JL can be booked through AA.com and that has always been the case. .

*buzz* WRONG.
(there's a shocker) :roll:

JL's been easily bookable on AA.com since the j/v. And offered scattered options even before.


jfk777 wrote:
who are they in a JV with ? Qatar. They are not in one with JAL, AA, BA or Qantas. SO who is this JV with ?

NZ, since December of 2012
Last edited by LAX772LR on Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
keitherson
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:10 am

jfk777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Cathay is anti JV and it seems to work for them.

No they aren't. They're currently in a J/V now.



jfk777 wrote:
many wonder why they don't have A380

Who are these "many?"

....anyone paying attention would know the answer, as CX has publicly stated it multiple times:
They didn't feel that the A388 is of a sufficient size increase over their current eqp, in order to justify the implementation cost.


who are they in a JV with ? Qatar. They are not in one with JAL, AA, BA or Qantas. SO who is this JV with ?


They are in a JV with NZ, and they used to be in one with QR. Can you not read?
 
keitherson
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:13 am

LAX772LR wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
AA doesn't allow/ their web site isn't configured at all - for any CX redemptions online. You have to call. As you do for most of their partner carriers (including Iberia). It's annoying.

Indeed, it is. As stated, that's exactly what I had to do. Usually have more success calling BA/QF first.


keitherson wrote:
Neither CX or JL can be booked through AA.com and that has always been the case. .

*buzz* WRONG. :roll:

JL's been easily bookable on AA.com since the j/v. And offered scattered options even before.


WRONG. JAL is not bookable on AA.com. Check your sources. Go to aa.com and pull up a JAL metal flight for me and take a screenshot for me. I guarantee that you cannot. :roll:

Even for flights wide open such as SAN-NRT, you will NOT find availability on AA.com. I've been EP/CK for years and have NEVER seen JAL on aa.com.

Check your facts and check your basics before spouting nonsense.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:19 am

keitherson wrote:
Go to aa.com and pull up a JAL metal flight for me and take a screenshot for me. I guarantee that you cannot. :roll:

What, you mean like this:

Image


Hmm, so much for ~your~ guarantee. :lol:



keitherson wrote:
I've been EP/CK for years and have NEVER seen JAL on aa.com.

Then you're either blind, or have the world's worst case of ADD, because JL's been able to be booked on AA.com for a longggggg time.

Pay attention.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
keitherson
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:36 am

LAX772LR wrote:
keitherson wrote:
Go to aa.com and pull up a JAL metal flight for me and take a screenshot for me. I guarantee that you cannot. :roll:

What, you mean like this:

Image


Hmm, so much for ~your~ guarantee. :lol:



keitherson wrote:
I've been EP/CK for years and have NEVER seen JAL on aa.com.

Then you're either blind, or have the world's worst case of ADD, because JL's been able to be booked on AA.com for a longggggg time.

Pay attention.


We are talking about award seats, not revenue bookings. Christ. Read.

Since you are so oblivious, here is the original post in question

Which is awesome in theory, but like I said, good luck using AAdvantage for such, especially from the west coast.

Try booking a J award on CX via AA without having to call in and spend half an hour on the phone, even for an elite hotline; and if you get them to do it, then please share the secret.

I even called both BA and QF to see if I could create a dummy trip using their mileage (which I didn't have) in order to just see if CX released the space for redemption at ANY level (wasn't even bothering with Saaver). No joy.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:39 am

keitherson wrote:
We are talking about award seats, not revenue bookings. Christ. Read.

Pull the stick out. :roll:

And where did YOU say anything about award seats?

I was the one talking about that, and only about CX. Where'd you see me saying anything about JL?
Reading your babble, all you say is that JL isn't bookable, which is what was responded to.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
keitherson
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:41 am

LAX772LR wrote:
keitherson wrote:
We are talking about award seats, not revenue bookings. Christ. Read.

Pull the stick out.

And where did YOU say anything about award seats?

I was the one talking about that, and only about CX.
Reading your babble, all you say is that JL isn't bookable, which isn't true.


I said it right here:
keitherson wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
commavia wrote:
Cathay and AA do far more than "barely" cooperate.

Such as ____?
About the extent you're going to get, is domestic beyond flights on AA from Asian origin.

In potential routings from the US p.o.s., AA is going to push JL over CX every chance they get, to the point of making it either 1) unavailable or 2) prohibitive for the US side to select CX via AA.


commavia wrote:
And of course, there is also all of the reciprocal oneworld frequent flyer benefits.

Which is awesome in theory, but like I said, good luck using AAdvantage for such, especially from the west coast.

Try booking a J award on CX via AA without having to call in and spend half an hour on the phone, even for an elite hotline; and if you get them to do it, then please share the secret.

I even called both BA and QF to see if I could create a dummy trip using their mileage (which I didn't have) in order to just see if CX released the space for redemption at ANY level (wasn't even bothering with Saaver). No joy.

Anecdotal? Sure, but as someone who just spent two months trying/failing that very thing, before eventually giving up because instant upgrade space opened up on AA193, I ask: what effective good is it, if it's that difficult to use?

If you are judging a carrier's cooperation/ties with another carrier based on free award seats and mileage upgrades, you are really out of it and have no idea what you are talking about.

Neither CX or JL can be booked through AA.com and that has always been the case. Yes, AA, a joint venture partner of JL, will not have their award seats show up on AA.com.

Also, AA miles are almost worthless these days given how hard they are to redeem. Seats at the sAAver level have been next to nonexistent for some time now: try looking at any South America to USA route that AA runs.

CX realized the problem with oneworld partners selling and giving cheap mileage away for people that redeemed for their own metal, and took seats away from members of their own program. So guess what, CX is now limiting the space for their own Asia Miles members. Tough.


I don't know what your problem is, but you surely have a problem reading and picking fights when you're clearly wrong.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:53 am

keitherson wrote:
I said it right here

Obviously thought you meant at all, hence the confusion (and still not sure what the point of bringing JL into this was) and of posting the screenshot.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
keitherson
Posts: 241
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:03 am

LAX772LR wrote:
keitherson wrote:
I said it right here

Obviously thought you meant at all, hence the confusion (and still not sure what the point of bringing JL into this was) and of posting the screenshot.


Because award seats for JL, like CX, cannot be booked at aa.com. We were talking about CX and their relationship to AA, since some other posters were trying to make the argument that CX and AA don't cooperate much from award seat availability. This is absolutely true, but award seat availability doesn't mean anything in terms of cooperation.

And yes, there was confusion because I was not clear I was talking about specifically JL award seats, in response to other posters that were talking about CX award seats.

The truth is that if CX wasn't around, AA would have far better market penetration into Mainland China through a joint venture with either CZ, MU, MF, or maybe even HU. IT's the whole reason why AA had to start an entire TPAC hub operation at LAX, launching service to HKG, PVG, PEK. It would be one of these other Mainland Chinese carriers in oneworld, were it not for CX's veto.
 
cornishsimon
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:10 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:33 am

Tbh if and when flybe start LHR domestic flights using the remedy slots I would expect CX codes on the flights.

Flybe offer a large number of CX connection options on uk domestics ex MAN especially so expect that to continue as and when CX and BE expand


cs
 
jfk777
Posts: 7201
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:04 pm

keitherson wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
No they aren't. They're currently in a J/V now.




Who are these "many?"

....anyone paying attention would know the answer, as CX has publicly stated it multiple times:
They didn't feel that the A388 is of a sufficient size increase over their current eqp, in order to justify the implementation cost.


who are they in a JV with ? Qatar. They are not in one with JAL, AA, BA or Qantas. SO who is this JV with ?


They are in a JV with NZ, and they used to be in one with QR. Can you not read?


Yes Keitherson I can read. OK you got me but ANZ is hardly a "core" airline to the Cathay route map. I would expect CX to have a JV to Europe or North America, maybe Australia. IF Cathay were serious about a JV it would join the AA/JAL Pacific JV or create one with Finnair and IAG to Europe.
 
CXGabriel
Posts: 136
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:26 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:41 pm

Saw a bunch of replies on CX award availability. Here's a tip: get a BA milage account because you can search CX availability on BA website. Once you find CX availability, call AA and get the seats. That's how I did it last time, right before AA changed the award chart, to get ORD-HKG in first class and HKG-ORD in business class. Another tip, CX tends to release more seats as time approaches. I got the above seats a few weeks before the travel dates. Certainly, you probably get better shots if you fly out of the big hub with multiple frequencies, such as LAX, JFK.

AA and CX cooperation dated back to 1980's if I remember correctly when CX started HKG-YVR-SFO. Whether they are "close" or not, that's very subjective. I consider them "close" even without JV. I think QF is the only one that's not "close" to CX in terms of partnership/cooperation.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7201
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:10 pm

CXGabriel wrote:
Saw a bunch of replies on CX award availability. Here's a tip: get a BA milage account because you can search CX availability on BA website. Once you find CX availability, call AA and get the seats. That's how I did it last time, right before AA changed the award chart, to get ORD-HKG in first class and HKG-ORD in business class. Another tip, CX tends to release more seats as time approaches. I got the above seats a few weeks before the travel dates. Certainly, you probably get better shots if you fly out of the big hub with multiple frequencies, such as LAX, JFK.

AA and CX cooperation dated back to 1980's if I remember correctly when CX started HKG-YVR-SFO. Whether they are "close" or not, that's very subjective. I consider them "close" even without JV. I think QF is the only one that's not "close" to CX in terms of partnership/cooperation.


AA and CX code shared when Cathay started LAX to HKG flights around 1990 or 1990. Qantas at one time purchased seats on Cathay's Rome flights which connected in HKG with Qantas Sydney flights, providing QF a way to serve Rome.
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: BA and CX relations

Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:44 pm

I don't think the BA/CX question is too complicated.

Between those two airlines you've got all but one of the non stop flights between Hong Kong and the UK each day. There is no way any kind of co-operation would pass competition law.

The situation with QF is similar, as between the two you've got almost all of the non stop Hong Kong to Australia flights (I think only 3 per week are operated by someone else). Again, no way co-operation would pass competition law.

A good example was the proposed AA-QF joint venture, which despite three other airlines operating non stop flights was still rejected by the US. Whilst the US are not directly relevant here, it illustrates the concept.
 
User avatar
FlyCaledonian
Posts: 1945
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 6:18 am

Re: BA and CX relations

Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:04 pm

vv701 wrote:
With the dominance of BA and CX on UK-HKG routings any JV approved by the competition authorities would most certainly require BA and CX to surrender valuable LHR slots to benefit the consumer by maintaining some reasonable level of competition as they required for both the BA/AA JV and the BA purchase of BD.

But as such slots would have to be used to operate LHR-HKG who on earth would want them?

  • VS might consider it if they thought a twice daily LHR-HKG could work, but that is about it.
  • NZ withdrew from AKL-HKG-LHR, so I couldn't see them returning unless they felt their was enough Star Alliance partnership to do it.
  • UA have, I believe, still the right to operate LHR-HKG - they used to do it with UA1/UA2 although that was a one-stop via DEL.
  • So that leaves Hong Kong Airlines, who could have an opportunity to get into LHR for free.

But then again, what would BA/CX gain from having a JV? BA doesn't seem to have exploited any of its oneworld relationships with the Asian carriers to open new opportunities - JL, CX, MH. Not even QR to tap into some one-stop options to secondary cities on the Indian sub-continent and in South East Asia.
Let's Go British Caledonian!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos