Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
LY777
Topic Author
Posts: 2578
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:53 pm

AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.
When will they be withdrawn?
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
ty97
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 1:06 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:12 pm

Part of the fleet has already been retired with more to go soon. However, a portion of the fleet (25 I believe) have recently been retrofit in J (not Y) and most of those are intended to remain around for a while still.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:16 pm

LY777 wrote:
AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.


In my experience, there's a pretty big distinction between the nine (now eight) aircraft delivered in 2003 versus all the late 1980/early 1990s deliveries. The difference with the cabins of the newer jets is discernible. I recently flew on one of the newer 767s MVD-MIA and the cabin, even in Y, didn't look bad at all.

I take the broader point, though - without PTVs, these planes no longer seem competitive for longer stage lengths. But that said, I suspect that in the very near future, the remaining 767s are likely going to be relegated almost entirely to (1) Hawaii, (2) captive/non-competitive South America routes (essentially MIA-MVD/CNF/GYE), and (3) shorter transatlantic (JFK/PHL-DUB/MAN), along with intra-hub - all places where the weaker hard product is arguably somewhat less of an issue.

LY777 wrote:
When will they be withdrawn?


The aircraft that are being reconfigured and retained likely have just a few more years of life left in them.
 
SJPBR
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:54 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:54 pm

They will keep flying to places like CNF as they don't have any competition in these markets..... And by the way: Better flight in a 763 with a book in a 2-3-2 configuration than in a 77W with 3-4-3 and PTV...In my opinion...
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4534
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:04 pm

commavia wrote:
(3) shorter transatlantic (JFK/PHL-DUB/MAN), along with intra-hub - all places where the weaker hard product is arguably somewhat less of an issue.


I'm sure that ORD-CDG will continue to see the 763 for a while. I flew on one on that route a year ago and I must say the Y Cabin was outdated but refurbished with the new seats, quite a comfy ride.
JFK-CDG not sure about that one because AA44/45 is likely to be switched to a 77E as it has already been before. It does see the 763 coming back every now and then. AA120/121 is a 757.
I see BOS-CDG getting the 763 if the 757 goes away for one reason or another: aircraft retirement or need to reassign the aircraft on another route to fill the gap left by the ex-US 757s leaving the fleet.
ORD-LHR...maybe...one of the several daily flights will still be a 763 for a while.
DFW-Europe routes are more likely to loose the 763 as more 787-9s are coming, and 77Es are likely to be scheduled on DFW-Europe routes than 763s are.

Best regards,

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:58 pm

LY777 wrote:
AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.
When will they be withdrawn?


You are incorrect, my friend. AA has refurbished several thus far.

It is not known when the 767-300ERs will officially leave AA's fleet. AA plans to reduce the fleet to 25 by next year and plan to further reduce the fleet to the youngest 17 by 2018.

My guess is that the 763s will leave in the 2020s.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
globalcabotage
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:42 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:44 am

ORD-LHR is all 788 this summer. The only 763s at ORD this summer are CDG, MAN, and a few DFW / lMIA fleet rotations. After this summer, the 763 will be a distant memory at ORD except for a few DFW / MIA runs.
 
Swadian
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:23 am

Did AA replace the Y seats in the refurbished 763s or just the J seats? If so, are they the same Y seats as the refurbed 752s?

N345AN had that fire in ORD, so that's one less in the fleet. It had been refurbed.
 
hkcanadaexpat
Posts: 4086
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 3:33 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:27 am

30x 763s currently remain.
- 1x in old paint/old seats (377)
- 5x in new paint/old seats (369/373/380/383/387)
- 24x in new paint/new seats

The 6x old seats will all be retired in 2017 and 8x new seats are expected to be retired in 2018. The rest (16) have no known retirement date as of yet.

To note, following the write off of 345 @ ORD earlier this year, numbers may be adjusted (the plan was to keep 17). Rumours are that 376 (new paint/old seats) is coming back into the fleet from retirement, at least temporarily.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:52 am

LY777 wrote:
AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.
When will they be withdrawn?


It might be not up to par in Y but for Domestic and Day international flights These are nice birds to have around. In Y I strongly prefer widebodies. I hope they stay around for a while.
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:19 am

Swadian wrote:
Did AA replace the Y seats in the refurbished 763s or just the J seats? If so, are they the same Y seats as the refurbed 752s?


AA's 767s have the same seats they've always had, but as they're going in for refurb they're getting the new AA standard Y seat covers (including the navy blue leather headrest and red stripe at the top of the seat). In the cabins where the overhead bins are the new (post-777) style, and you're looking towards the aft of the plane and thus can't see that the seats lack AVOD PTVs, one could honestly be mistaken for thinking they're relatively new/modernized jets. :)

grbauc wrote:
It might be not up to par in Y but for Domestic and Day international flights These are nice birds to have around. In Y I strongly prefer widebodies. I hope they stay around for a while.


Agree. The lack of AVOD/PTVs is unfortunate for longer flights, and the non-refurb of the overhead bins in the older jets looks as cheap as it is, but assuming the plane isn't taking a mx delay (far too common these days), AA's 767s are not that bad at all. As said, I recently flew one of the "newer" aircraft - actually AA's newest 767, N344AN - on 9-hour MVD-MIA flight, and while, granted, I was in the small MCE section up front and had my own entertainment (iPad), it was actually quite a comfortable ride.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 570
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:00 am

Currently AA has 24 Refurbished 763 and 6 Non-refurbished 763. These are the original Weber (now Zodiac) 5150 seats (1999-2003) but have new seat covers. 6 of the newest 763's have 777 style overhead bins. As the OP mentioned some of these seats are terrible, no padding left, worn out etc.

http://i0.wp.com/thepointsguy.com/wp-co ... .jpg?ssl=1

Almost all the 757’s have Weber 5751 (2008-2011) seats in economy. These are the same seats as the 738’s delivered prior to AVOD. Most are still in acceptable condition and are getting the newest style "pleather" seat covers.

http://onemileatatime.img.boardingarea. ... 1475140670

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/29702227120/
 
drdisque
Posts: 1369
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:09 am

globalcabotage wrote:
ORD-LHR is all 788 this summer. The only 763s at ORD this summer are CDG, MAN, and a few DFW / lMIA fleet rotations. After this summer, the 763 will be a distant memory at ORD except for a few DFW / MIA runs.


The two evening ORD-LHR flights are being downgauged to a 788 from the 772? Traditionally only the day flight has been a 763.
 
User avatar
CARST
Posts: 1556
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:00 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:43 am

It's so funny when some of you talk about refurbished 763s, when these 24 birds just got new seat covers, which is a long-term maintenance item anyway, because they get worn down.

Fact is, no new seats, no new side walls, no new PSUs in the overhead compartments, no new bins, no PTVs. These aircraft are total wrecks and look like they're ready for the boneyard, at least in the Y cabins. Flew MIA-CDG in one of them. Just ugh! But the main question is: is AA stupid? How do they want to compete TATL with this product? And also intra-US/domestic, they have lots of airlines with far better products.

To keep up with the competition they should quickly roll out the 77W / 787 onboard product onto all 77Es and 763s, at least onto the birds they want to keep for the years to come...
 
LY777
Topic Author
Posts: 2578
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:42 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
LY777 wrote:
AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.
When will they be withdrawn?


You are incorrect, my friend. AA has refurbished several thus far.

.


No refurbishment in Y ! The cabin looks very bad.
My sister just flew CDG-ORD in Y, and told me it was a real disgrace, and yet, she doesn't know anything in aviation. She told me she was in the '80s in that plane lol
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
rta
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:54 pm

I recently flew the overnight ORD-LHR flight on the 767 and personally enjoyed how dark the cabin was due to the lack of PTV. However I probably wouldn't enjoy the return (daytime) flight, so I'm glad I'll be on the 77W.
 
LY777
Topic Author
Posts: 2578
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:33 pm

rta wrote:
I recently flew the overnight ORD-LHR flight on the 767 and personally enjoyed how dark the cabin was due to the lack of PTV. .


LOL
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
texdravid
Posts: 1830
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:37 pm

The biggest problem with older AA 757 and 763's is not the lack of PTV, it is the old cigarette lighter power slots and on some, no wifi.

If you have wifi and USB power, you don't need any airline PTV.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:51 pm

texdravid wrote:
The biggest problem with older AA 757 and 763's is not the lack of PTV, it is the old cigarette lighter power slots and on some, no wifi.

If you have wifi and USB power, you don't need any airline PTV.

Correction: If YOU have wifi and USB, YOU don't need any airline PTV. Don't speak for me or many others who don't agree...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4275
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:56 pm

WOW, AMERICAN AIRLINES with no 767's! They are as iconic to AA as their 727's were. Are these Y seats worse than the new UA Y seats?
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
User avatar
compensateme
Posts: 3279
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:17 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:13 pm

LY777 wrote:
rta wrote:
I recently flew the overnight ORD-LHR flight on the 767 and personally enjoyed how dark the cabin was due to the lack of PTV. .


LOL


What's so funny? I fully agree that when you're trying to sleep, the absence of PTVs is helpful (especially on aircraft with LED lighting, which is less visible beyond the seat).

I'm amazed by the number of people who can't go more than a few hours without watching TV... of course, if you ask these same people 'did you watch xxx last night,' they'll respond 'I wish I had as much free time as you, I barely have time to have a bowl movement, let alone watch TV'.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:57 pm

texdravid wrote:
If you have wifi and USB power, you don't need any airline PTV.

Is the wifi complimentary?
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4534
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:05 am

VC10er wrote:
WOW, AMERICAN AIRLINES with no 767's! They are as iconic to AA as their 727's were.


As their DC-10s also were. The DC-10 was American's flagship aircraft in the fleet for a long time. From the early 70s until the mid 90s or so it was the wide body aircraft seen the most on domestic routes. The flagship aircraft's final flight was HNL-DFW back in 2000, and I'm sure that DFW-HNL will still be a 763 for a while so this route might as well see the 763 final flight. I don't know if that is what will happen but if it does, in about eight to ten years from now or so, I wouldn't be surprised.
Ben Soriano
 
Varsity1
Posts: 2238
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 4:55 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:38 am

The pilots are reporting that the A333's will stay longer than planned. I wonder if fleet plans are changing at AA?
 
RacheyFlies
Posts: 191
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:48 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:23 am

LY777 wrote:
AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.
When will they be withdrawn?

The withdrawn is likely to be in 2020, but somehow they need another consideration to replace it. It's suggested that a 777X or 787-10 or A350-1000 is considered to replace them. UA orders 78X and A35X where X stands for 10 and 1000. But neither has ordered the 777X.
The best plane I've flown is an A380. They were the biggest and the best than other plane I've been on. :lol:
 
User avatar
Boeing778X
Posts: 3268
Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:55 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:26 am

TurnerJet wrote:
LY777 wrote:
AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.
When will they be withdrawn?

The withdrawn is likely to be in 2020, but somehow they need another consideration to replace it. It's suggested that a 777X or 787-10 or A350-1000 is considered to replace them. UA orders 78X and A35X where X stands for 10 and 1000. But neither has ordered the 777X.


For the 767-300ER, I think the 787s are the closest thing. Maybe the A321s for domestic missions.

I predict AA will love the A350-900, and will want to invest in the A350-1000. I do see them also ordering the 777-9 next decade, when the oldest 77Es begin leaving.

I do not see UA ordering the 777X.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 690
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:51 am

Does AA carry high margin cargo on MIA-GYE? This is an easy route for a narrowbody. Frankly, I'm surprised it's still getting 763's.

A spilt between 789s and A321neo probably make the most sense for replacement. -9's on the routes >7 hours and A321 for the shorter sectors (not many of these).

Not sure additional 788's make sense with 789's marginal trip cost being so low. Probably won't be 1-1 replacements on some routes, network moves to re-optimize and out the 789's on longer, thin routes and move the A330's and/or 777s to the short-mid sectors unless onboard product matters (obviously doesn't on most current 763 routes).

Agree that A359's are a good fit for the core routes, especially TPAC. 789's smaller size and lower trip cost probably better for new route launching or the thinner long hauls.

At some point they'll likely consider A35k or maybe 777X but with their young and decent sized 77W fleet, that's probably pretty far down the road. Too many hubs with MIA, ORD, DFW, PHX, LAX, PHL, JFK to drive much demand for the 350-400seat market. Probably better with 250-300 seat A359 or 789's covering destinations from multiple hubs. Maybe 78K's for TATL network further down the line.
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:57 am

CARST wrote:
It's so funny when some of you talk about refurbished 763s, when these 24 birds just got new seat covers, which is a long-term maintenance item anyway, because they get worn down.

Fact is, no new seats, no new side walls, no new PSUs in the overhead compartments, no new bins, no PTVs. These aircraft are total wrecks and look like they're ready for the boneyard, at least in the Y cabins. Flew MIA-CDG in one of them. Just ugh! But the main question is: is AA stupid? How do they want to compete TATL with this product? And also intra-US/domestic, they have lots of airlines with far better products.

To keep up with the competition they should quickly roll out the 77W / 787 onboard product onto all 77Es and 763s, at least onto the birds they want to keep for the years to come...


There days on international is numbered, has the new aircraft come in. TATL should be drawn down first then I expect Southamerica and domestic flights to be the last hanger on's.
 
asuflyer
Posts: 570
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:48 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:49 am

Okcflyer wrote:
Does AA carry high margin cargo on MIA-GYE? This is an easy route for a narrowbody. Frankly, I'm surprised it's still getting 763's.


The GYE station has had at times had the highest cargo revenues in the entire SA region. The cargo is mostly fresh fish and flowers.
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:33 am

I flew on a 763 in Y MIA-DFW, and it has been at least a decade since having flown on such an 'apparently' old plane. At first I didn't even know how to work that weird rotary dial on the seat for IFE changes. LOL I think the worst part is the lack of space in those old overheard bins. I don't like flying on that airplane, I would hate it on a long haul flight and I don't like it on domestic short hauls either. The MIA - DFW route also get a A321, which I much prefer. I like wide-bodies like the other guy but certainly that much.
Look Up
 
yabeweb
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 1:41 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:58 pm

It is funny, because comes the day the 767 will be retired (i mean completely) and it will be like... why do they have to retire 767 , it is a great aircraft....
Then all the threads about....will Boeing start again 767 production?
 
LY777
Topic Author
Posts: 2578
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:31 pm

A 767 with an updated interior is a very cool aircraft to fly on. 2-class UA and DL 763s are very nice inside...
But AA 763s with no IFE and tiny overhead bins are just terrible, not to mention the yellow lights...
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
VC10er
Posts: 4275
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:18 pm

LY777 wrote:
A 767 with an updated interior is a very cool aircraft to fly on. 2-class UA and DL 763s are very nice inside...
But AA 763s with no IFE and tiny overhead bins are just terrible, not to mention the yellow lights...


I think I've spent thousands of hours on a 767 and became comfortable in them over time, or perhaps it actually is something mystical like "Feng-Shui", or the brilliance and vision of the designers 40+ years ago, but (IMHO) the 767 tube is, to quote Goldie Locks "just right". And she got a bit better with the Boeing signature overhead bins/ceiling. Inside a renovated 767, with new bins, new seats, bulkheads carpet and etc...looks and feels great. I admit the 787's superior environmental tech makes a difference as do the giant windows, but as far as I'm concerned: long live the 767.

I totally understand that it would cost a lot of money to fully renovate an old 767 and keep it clean, (probably enough to feed millions of hungry children) but from a purely business perspective, how many people will fly (as described) an old, ratty AA 767 in a year? Maybe 50/60,000 people? More? When does it make sense to spend the money to give 50,000+ people a really nice plane vs 50,000+ people walking off thinking "yuck". This is what I mean about brand vs branding.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:40 pm

I've only flown on LAN and AC's 767, but the 2-3-2 is awesome. The cabins feel wide and cozy at the same time. Great airplane! If AA updated it, I bet the 767 would become a bit of a favorite.
-Andrés Juánez
 
airzona11
Posts: 1787
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:44 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:35 pm

Love the 763s. Hopefully they transition some to PHX for flights to Hawaii. There is not a shortage of parts and they have expertise maintaining them for many years, so I am sure they can squeeze reliable life out of a paid for sub-fleet.

Regarding competition and having a PTV / not having it. They are upgraded upfront where it earns the most money per seat. The nature of consolidation and trans-atlantic JVs means they have a lot of routes where they have feed on both sides and they really aren't losing butts in seat bc there are no PTVs. For flyers like myself, and there are a decent amount (look how many Gold/Plat/Exec Plat lineup for each flight), where 95+% of flight are in Economy, I am not going to jump ship to fly another carrier with maybe a fancy new TV, they have frequent flyers locked in.

This is not to be taken a rant for or against PTVs. While they would be nice to haves, there is no way the lack of PTVs in the economy cabin tips the scales from profit to loss on 767s. Spending millions to refurbish them or prematurely retire them for 787s/A350s etc, that would.
 
crAAzy
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:02 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:02 pm

[/quote]

No refurbishment in Y ! The cabin looks very bad.
My sister just flew CDG-ORD in Y, and told me it was a real disgrace, and yet, she doesn't know anything in aviation. She told me she was in the '80s in that plane lol[/quote]

Yet a recent search from MKE-ORD-CDG had AA only charging $3200 one way in coach for the privilege to fly in one of these pieces of memorabilia from the '80s!
 
77H
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:30 pm

ikramerica wrote:
texdravid wrote:
The biggest problem with older AA 757 and 763's is not the lack of PTV, it is the old cigarette lighter power slots and on some, no wifi.

If you have wifi and USB power, you don't need any airline PTV.

Correction: If YOU have wifi and USB, YOU don't need any airline PTV. Don't speak for me or many others who don't agree...


I personally prefer WiFi and ISP over PTVs. I've even seen seats with adjustable clips to hold smartphones or tablets. I am also of the belief that one should be able to entertain themselves for several hours without the need to stare at a screen.
 
Ryanair01
Posts: 485
Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2013 9:27 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:14 pm

The last time I flew longhaul with no PTV was 2001 on TWA 767 and it was backward 15 years ago.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20613
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:14 pm

I like in flight entertainment as for some reason people today think reading means you aren't doing anything. Oh, I enjoy a conversation, but it amazes me how compulsive people are to ask a reader for favors. So I put on the headsets, turn on something, and read. :). PTVs are to date the other passengers. Since I fly with a sleepmask anyway, the lights are a non-issue (JetBlue sells them, free on red-eyes).

[twoid][/twoid]
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
30x 763s currently remain.
- 1x in old paint/old seats (377)
- 5x in new paint/old seats (369/373/380/383/387)
- 24x in new paint/new seats

The 6x old seats will all be retired in 2017 and 8x new seats are expected to be retired in 2018. The rest (16) have no known retirement date as of yet.

To note, following the write off of 345 @ ORD earlier this year, numbers may be adjusted (the plan was to keep 17). Rumours are that 376 (new paint/old seats) is coming back into the fleet from retirement, at least temporarily.

Thank you for the numbers. So fading.

I see no way these can economically compete with the A321LR (on the routes that plane has the legs for), so I expect their fate is sealed.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:40 pm

VC10er wrote:
LY777 wrote:
A 767 with an updated interior is a very cool aircraft to fly on. 2-class UA and DL 763s are very nice inside...
But AA 763s with no IFE and tiny overhead bins are just terrible, not to mention the yellow lights...


I think I've spent thousands of hours on a 767 and became comfortable in them over time, or perhaps it actually is something mystical like "Feng-Shui", or the brilliance and vision of the designers 40+ years ago, but (IMHO) the 767 tube is, to quote Goldie Locks "just right". And she got a bit better with the Boeing signature overhead bins/ceiling. Inside a renovated 767, with new bins, new seats, bulkheads carpet and etc...looks and feels great. I admit the 787's superior environmental tech makes a difference as do the giant windows, but as far as I'm concerned: long live the 767.

I totally understand that it would cost a lot of money to fully renovate an old 767 and keep it clean, (probably enough to feed millions of hungry children) but from a purely business perspective, how many people will fly (as described) an old, ratty AA 767 in a year? Maybe 50/60,000 people? More? When does it make sense to spend the money to give 50,000+ people a really nice plane vs 50,000+ people walking off thinking "yuck". This is what I mean about brand vs branding.

Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 3 year old 787 and a 30 year old 767 from the inside. Most people don't care how old the plane is as long as they have a comfortable seat and a cheap ticket. Did people walk off of Northwest's 40-year old DC-9s thinking "yuck"?
 
EricAY05
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:25 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:58 pm

LY777 wrote:
AA 763s look so bad (at least in Y).
I know AA doesn't plan to refurbish them.
When will they be withdrawn?


Are you serious? I hope they will fly for decades! The Y seat in the 763s is the most comfortable Y seat in the world (I believe AA has those on some 772s also). It's really unbelievable how rested I arrive every time after flying on this plane.The MCE section is better than BA's World Traveller + in my opinion. Yes, there is no AVOD, but you can read a book and your lower back will adore you for choosing this plane. Some 763s have the new business seats too, which are also awesome, btw.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1377
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:12 pm

I was just on an AA refurbished 763 a couple of weeks ago OGG-DFW. They are not nearly as bad as many here are making them out to be. Sure, they have no AVOD in Y class, but the seats are not uncomfortable and have been recovered. The bigger issue is reliability. Our flight ended up being delayed 72 hours :-(. But between AA, AC, DL, HA, WS, and UA 763's there really isn't that much of a difference in economy class
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:16 pm

Nobody really needs AVOD. They just think that they need it. All one really needs is a cigarette lighter power port, free wi-fi and a book. AVOD is just a marketing gimmick.
 
LY777
Topic Author
Posts: 2578
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:58 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:17 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
VC10er wrote:
LY777 wrote:
A 767 with an updated interior is a very cool aircraft to fly on. 2-class UA and DL 763s are very nice inside...
But AA 763s with no IFE and tiny overhead bins are just terrible, not to mention the yellow lights...


I think I've spent thousands of hours on a 767 and became comfortable in them over time, or perhaps it actually is something mystical like "Feng-Shui", or the brilliance and vision of the designers 40+ years ago, but (IMHO) the 767 tube is, to quote Goldie Locks "just right". And she got a bit better with the Boeing signature overhead bins/ceiling. Inside a renovated 767, with new bins, new seats, bulkheads carpet and etc...looks and feels great. I admit the 787's superior environmental tech makes a difference as do the giant windows, but as far as I'm concerned: long live the 767.

I totally understand that it would cost a lot of money to fully renovate an old 767 and keep it clean, (probably enough to feed millions of hungry children) but from a purely business perspective, how many people will fly (as described) an old, ratty AA 767 in a year? Maybe 50/60,000 people? More? When does it make sense to spend the money to give 50,000+ people a really nice plane vs 50,000+ people walking off thinking "yuck". This is what I mean about brand vs branding.

Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 3 year old 787 and a 30 year old 767 from the inside. Most people don't care how old the plane is as long as they have a comfortable seat and a cheap ticket. Did people walk off of Northwest's 40-year old DC-9s thinking "yuck"?



I disagree. They may not be able to tell the difference between an A330 and a 777, but people are not stupid, and they can tell the difference between an old 767 with no AVOD, and tiny bins, and a brand new 787s with big bins, huge Windows, AVOD...
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:32 pm

LY777 wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
VC10er wrote:

I think I've spent thousands of hours on a 767 and became comfortable in them over time, or perhaps it actually is something mystical like "Feng-Shui", or the brilliance and vision of the designers 40+ years ago, but (IMHO) the 767 tube is, to quote Goldie Locks "just right". And she got a bit better with the Boeing signature overhead bins/ceiling. Inside a renovated 767, with new bins, new seats, bulkheads carpet and etc...looks and feels great. I admit the 787's superior environmental tech makes a difference as do the giant windows, but as far as I'm concerned: long live the 767.

I totally understand that it would cost a lot of money to fully renovate an old 767 and keep it clean, (probably enough to feed millions of hungry children) but from a purely business perspective, how many people will fly (as described) an old, ratty AA 767 in a year? Maybe 50/60,000 people? More? When does it make sense to spend the money to give 50,000+ people a really nice plane vs 50,000+ people walking off thinking "yuck". This is what I mean about brand vs branding.

Most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 3 year old 787 and a 30 year old 767 from the inside. Most people don't care how old the plane is as long as they have a comfortable seat and a cheap ticket. Did people walk off of Northwest's 40-year old DC-9s thinking "yuck"?



I disagree. They may not be able to tell the difference between an A330 and a 777, but people are not stupid, and they can tell the difference between an old 767 with no AVOD, and tiny bins, and a brand new 787s with big bins, huge Windows, AVOD...

That may be true but I think people would take the old 767 if it means they have a cheaper ticket. I think that for most people, ticket price is more important than bins, windows or AVOD.
 
Swadian
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:56 pm

Okcflyer wrote:
Does AA carry high margin cargo on MIA-GYE? This is an easy route for a narrowbody. Frankly, I'm surprised it's still getting 763's.

A spilt between 789s and A321neo probably make the most sense for replacement. -9's on the routes >7 hours and A321 for the shorter sectors (not many of these).

Not sure additional 788's make sense with 789's marginal trip cost being so low. Probably won't be 1-1 replacements on some routes, network moves to re-optimize and out the 789's on longer, thin routes and move the A330's and/or 777s to the short-mid sectors unless onboard product matters (obviously doesn't on most current 763 routes).

Agree that A359's are a good fit for the core routes, especially TPAC. 789's smaller size and lower trip cost probably better for new route launching or the thinner long hauls.

At some point they'll likely consider A35k or maybe 777X but with their young and decent sized 77W fleet, that's probably pretty far down the road. Too many hubs with MIA, ORD, DFW, PHX, LAX, PHL, JFK to drive much demand for the 350-400seat market. Probably better with 250-300 seat A359 or 789's covering destinations from multiple hubs. Maybe 78K's for TATL network further down the line.


AA's current 77W only has 310 seats and that figure will go down with the installation of Premium Economy even if they go to 10-abreast in MCE. The AA 77W will have less than 300 seats, which is much less than UA's 77W or even DL's A359. They'll probably order the 779 sooner than people here seem to think.

In that case, we could see 788/A321 replacing 763, 789 replacing 788, and so on, with 779 replacing 77W at the top. Since AA doesn't have the A321LR on order, they may keep the 757 for longer, deployed on routes where the 788 would be too big. I'm sure there's also a place for the A350-1000 somewhere in there.
 
User avatar
XAM2175
Posts: 1156
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 2:25 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:26 pm

As far as I'm concerned, you could run an airline equipped entirely with 767s that have interiors straight out of 1988, with a soft product charitably described as "spartan", attendants fired from Aeroflot in the '70s for being too surly, and tickets priced no less than 5% higher than the competition and I'd STILL pick them ahead of most newer alternatives for travel in Y.
 
blacksoviet
Posts: 1784
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:56 am

Is the 764 still available from Boeing or has the tooling been destroyed? What is the current backlog for the 767-300ER?

Is it possible that AA may order brand-new 763s to replace old 763s on routes where a A321LR would be too small and the 788 too heavy?
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8538
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:35 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Is it possible that AA may order brand-new 763s to replace old 763s on routes where a A321LR would be too small and the 788 too heavy?


No. If the A321LR is too small they can route traffic thru other hubs or enjoy higher average fares, or run multiple frequencies.
 
rta
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

Re: When will AA finally withdraw their 763s?

Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:32 am

superjeff wrote:
The bigger issue is reliability. Our flight ended up being delayed 72 hours :-(.


:checkmark:
I've been delayed on too many AA 763s. It seems that reliability has improved as of recently, though.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos