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TVNWZ
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Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:06 pm

Another tough article from the Tampa Bay Times describing lax oversight by Allegiant and the FAA. Heavily documented.

http://www.tampabay.com/projects/2016/i ... own-plane/
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:29 pm

If that article is to go by, that would raise question about the FAA safety culture.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:41 pm

The TBT seems to have a thing about G4
 
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LionelHutz
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:49 pm

Sounds like we're due for another perfectly avoidable tragedy...
 
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enilria
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:51 pm

So, at this point, either Allegiant is safe and somebody has an ax to ground against the company, or the FAA is beholden to Allegiant and unable to perform the job of keeping the airline safe. I'm going to have to go for the first one until Allegiant has a serious accident. If we believe #2 is true then we should all be afraid to fly.
 
qcpilotxf
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:59 pm

enilria wrote:
So, at this point, either Allegiant is safe and somebody has an ax to ground against the company, or the FAA is beholden to Allegiant and unable to perform the job of keeping the airline safe. I'm going to have to go for the first one until Allegiant has a serious accident. If we believe #2 is true then we should all be afraid to fly.


Im going to completely agree with you, if there was a larger issue why is only the Tampa Bay Times reporting them?
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:07 pm

G4 has a hub at PIE. And the airline has had several negative events occur here. The Times has a long history of strong, hard hitting investigations.
Last edited by TVNWZ on Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:08 pm

It can be a bit difficult to separate the facts from the hyperbole when it comes to Allegiant, but the Elevator issue documented in that article is incredibly scary.
DC9/MD90/MD11/F70/BAE146
737/738/739/744/748/752/763/772/789
A319/A320/A321/A332/A333/A346/A359
Q400/E170/E175/E190/CS300
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:15 pm

Isn't this just a rehash of similar articles? Why didn't they report at least one event that happened in the last 16 months?
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:15 pm

enilria wrote:
So, at this point, either Allegiant is safe and somebody has an ax to ground against the company, or the FAA is beholden to Allegiant and unable to perform the job of keeping the airline safe. I'm going to have to go for the first one until Allegiant has a serious accident. If we believe #2 is true then we should all be afraid to fly.


Or #3. A combination of both in varying degrees. One does not preclude the other.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:19 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
Isn't this just a rehash of similar articles? Why didn't they report at least one event that happened in the last 16 months?


Not rehash. But a look at what was ultimately done about the events over time. And the lack of action by the FAA. What got me was the chilling specific examples that were new.
 
ozark1
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:04 am

Some thoughts. It's very common for airline employees, mainly cockpit or cabin crew, to leave their carriers to work for the FAA. It is a requirement that they not be an inspector for the company that employed them . They are, understandably, very qualified for their positions. On the other hand, I don't think I've ever known someone who left the FAA for an airline. Mr. Tutora's employment history is very disturbing to me and if that's not a conflict of interest then I don't know what is. While the media, in any form, seems more sensationalistic and dramatic than ever, it does appear, that very questionable actions were taken (or not taken) by both Allegiant and the FAA. I would be curious to read every NTSB report regarding these incidents and then compare them to the content in the article. The relationship between the airline industry and the FAA seems very inconsistent.
 
wjcandee
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:10 am

In 2015, this would have been relevant reporting. Allegiant has cleaned up the mess in Florida, by all accounts, and afterwards underwent a white-glove inspection. These guys need to give it a rest. And talking about ValuJet is disgraceful.
 
747-600X
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:24 am

I'm always amused that the TBT keeps referring to "the tail compartment". There's no such thing.
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:37 am

qcpilotxf wrote:
The TBT seems to have a thing about G4


As well it should. Its operation at PIE is a major player in the Tampa Bay market and deserves the scrutiny that comes with it.
 
n471wn
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:38 am

Nobody cares about these hatchet articles as butts still fill the G4 seats and G4 can be very proud that they have never even skinned a knee
 
B737900ER
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:49 am

Seems that the author should be taking a closer look at AAR and contract overhauls, instead of G4, since that's were the problems seem to start. If you want to witness a cozy government/business relationship look no further.
 
peterj324
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:15 am

Another really well written and well researched article from the Tampa Bay Times. G4 hasn't had any major accidents but their huge number of minor incidents is very troubling. It may only be a matter of time until these safety issues cause a major accident. I would definitely not fly on one of their old MD-80s. Hopefully they do a better maintenance job with their newer A319's and A320's but I wouldn't count on it unless they do a serious crackdown.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:57 am

Airbuses are easier to maintain because they have onboard maintenance and diagnostics much like a modern vehicle does. I'm sure they do do a better job with the busses because of that. Allegiant did have a bird strike at RFD this past Thursday that resulted in a return of an A320. Happened at night so crew couldn't see the birds. Southwest also had a bird strike at Midway the same day that resulted in a return.
 
freakyrat
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:59 am

The TBT is rehashing old news from 2015.
 
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TVNWZ
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:24 am

It's interesting that when the media cursory reports something we say they are shallow and sensationalistic. But if they take their time, gather statistics, and look into details over an extended period of time they are accused of "rehashing."
 
cbphoto
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:10 am

747-600X wrote:
I'm always amused that the TBT keeps referring to "the tail compartment". There's no such thing.


I generally can't stand these articles, most of it is old news that they keep beating to death in new articles.

But in this case, the MD-80 actually does have a tail compartment, it's the space in the tail behind the aft pressure bulkhead, where the ventral airstairs are located. Also high pressure bleed air ducting, APU components as well as other sensitive equipment is back there. The MD-80 series is known to have issues with "tail compartment temp high" annunciators due to the build up of hot air in the compartment, due to bleed leaks, hot outside temperatures with a running APU, or other sources or heat. Crews even have emergency procedures when the tail compartment temp high annunciator comes on and it is an item that generally an emergency would be declared. That is what they are referring to about the tail compartment.

For the record, it's not just G4 that has tail compartment issues on the 80, it's a design issue with the MD-80 itself.
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
StrandedAtMKG
Posts: 289
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:26 am

There's one of two things going on here: a) the Tampa Bay Times has a particular ax to grind with G4 and is beating the issue to death*, or b) the TBT is the only media outlet paying any attention to a serious problem. Since the preponderance of the evidence points to a particularly lax safety culture at G4 versus other carriers, I'm inclined to believe the latter and I will continue to a) avoid G4, and b) encourage my friends and family to avoid them.

*While their last article was full of compelling data, this one seems hell-bent on drawing a parallel between G4 and ValuJet.
 
b747400erf
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:34 am

qcpilotxf wrote:
enilria wrote:
So, at this point, either Allegiant is safe and somebody has an ax to ground against the company, or the FAA is beholden to Allegiant and unable to perform the job of keeping the airline safe. I'm going to have to go for the first one until Allegiant has a serious accident. If we believe #2 is true then we should all be afraid to fly.


Im going to completely agree with you, if there was a larger issue why is only the Tampa Bay Times reporting them?


Investigative reporting is expensive, few newspapers in America still do it.
 
n471wn
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:18 am

Newspapers are dying and they will do anything to sell papers
 
n7371f
Posts: 1627
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:52 am

qcpilotxf wrote:
enilria wrote:
So, at this point, either Allegiant is safe and somebody has an ax to ground against the company, or the FAA is beholden to Allegiant and unable to perform the job of keeping the airline safe. I'm going to have to go for the first one until Allegiant has a serious accident. If we believe #2 is true then we should all be afraid to fly.


Im going to completely agree with you, if there was a larger issue why is only the Tampa Bay Times reporting them?


Because the TBT is owned by the Poynter Institute - the last free-standing news organization that puts the money and time into investigative reporting. You think the USA Today could do this? It's about spending the time, effort & money on investigative reporting. Sadly few publications do this any more. That's why you're so taken aback at the attention.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:48 am

Is it not strange? The other day we had Norwegian and every body damning them to hell. Than the story involves Go2Sky and people slander the Slovak authorities with abandon.
But here we look at an USA airline and the holy grail of aviation, the USA FAA, and people go strangely quiet.
 
n471wn
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:33 am

They know the whole G4 witch hunt has no merit and they are quiet because unlike posters here they have the facts
 
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BobPatterson
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Re: Another Damning Allegiant Safety Article

Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:40 am

I need help in obtaining airline incident data.

The article in Tampa Bay Times mentions five incidents on 6/25/2015 and another on 8/17/2015. Only one of the June incidents appears in the database maintained at AvHerald: http://avherald.com/h?list=&opt=2048

I obtained from AVHerald all records from August 2015 to the present. But it is almost certain that the file is far from being complete.

I would like to determine what Allegiant's incident record has been, relative to other airlines, since the period mentioned in the TBT article.

I have been unable to locate a publicly accessible database for incident data at DOT or FAA.

Can anyone tell me how to obtain ALL reported incident data?

Thanks
Facts are fragile things. Treat them with care. Sources are important. Alternative facts do not exist.

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