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LeCoqFrancais
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US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:57 pm


A US Airways Boeing 767-200, registration N255AY performing flight US-1041 from Saint Thomas (US Virgin Islands) to Charlotte,NC (USA) with 174 passengers, was on approach to Charlotte, when the crew reported a number of passengers and cabin crew had noticed some odour on board shortly after takeoff and were now suffering from headache and nausea raising the alert of a possible carbon monoxide poisoning. The airplane continued for a safe landing on Charlotte’s runway 23 and was received by about a dozen ambulances at the gate. 8 passengers were checked and treated on scene by medical staff, but were able to catch their connecting flights, 7 crew members were taken to a local hospital as a precaution.

On December 18th 2016 The Aviation Herald learned, that the captain of the flight died as result of the circumstances at the occurrence and its aftermath, the first officer is permanently injured and has lost his medical as result of the occurrence. As result The Aviation Herald re-rated the occurrence from incident to accident.

http://avherald.com/h?article=425f6a41
--
Such sad news, may the Pilot RIP.
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Aesma
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:07 pm

You have to wonder if some passengers have not also gotten the same symptoms and might not know this was the cause.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:12 pm

So was there any technical root cause positively confirmed for why fumes entered the cabin? It says a failed seal was suspected, but that would have to be one microscopic oil leak. The engine oil reservoir is pretty dang small and if you're losing oil you're usually going to find out quickly.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:48 am

It seems the 762 is known for in-cabin fume smells. My aunt uncle and cousins were flying LAX-JFK on an AA 762 redeye and they had to divert to DEN because of a similar situation. My cousins son felt sick so he was taken to a hospital in an ambulance, and they returned in a cab.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:09 am

Wow. That's so sad. Neither pilot realized they were on their final flight.

When did the captain die? Is the FO in poor health now as well?
 
oldannyboy
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:32 am

How sad. Tragic. Poor man...
I really hope the families of the pilots involved received adequate monetary compensation.
 
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LeCoqFrancais
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:28 pm

oldannyboy wrote:
How sad. Tragic. Poor man...
I really hope the families of the pilots involved received adequate monetary compensation.

Wow, that is really low in my opinion. You can't replace someone with money, and money won't change the situation. I personally find it useless to have a monetary compensation as it won't bring the loved one back, it won't change the situation and won't prevent this from happening again. If I was th family of the Captain, instead of getting money I would want to make sure that something like this never happens again as it would be sad that more people loose there flying capacities or there life because of a known and documented incident/accident. Money is something so futile but that some nations have brain washed there citizens into requesting everytime a little problem happens.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:42 pm

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
How sad. Tragic. Poor man...
I really hope the families of the pilots involved received adequate monetary compensation.

Wow, that is really low in my opinion.


[color=#FF0080][color=#FF0000]I think you totally misunderstood me here....
[/color]
[/color]
You can't replace someone with money, and money won't change the situation
.

[color=#FF0080][color=#FF0000]well, yes, that is pretty obvious, I agree..and it's NOT what I was trying to say
[/color][/color]
I personally find it useless to have a monetary compensation as it won't bring the loved one back, it won't change the situation and won't prevent this from happening again.

[color=#FF0080][color=#FF0080]But try and tell that to a family which might be losing their only form of income, say a wife with two kids and a mortgage and monthly bills to be paid....
[/color][/color]
If I was th family of the Captain, instead of getting money I would want to make sure that something like this never happens again as it would be sad that more people loose there flying capacities or there life because of a known and documented incident/accident
.
[color=#FF0080][color=#FF0000]Instead I think that it would good that the airline pays the family a hefty compensation, and that this sets the record for future similar accidents. Certainly we all hope that this won't happen again...but what if instead this DOES in fact happen, and there is no record of any benefit/disability benefit being paid to the victims of similar accidents??
[/color][/color]

Money is something so futile but that some nations have brain washed there citizens into requesting everytime a little problem happens
.


[color=#FF0080][color=#FF0000]Absolutely honey, but in the real world you still need it.
[/color][/color]

Ultimately we all are entitled to our own opinions my friend. I was simply stating (in an aviation forum, btw) what to me appears evident: and that is the airline recognizes that they have a responsibility and that they are accountable for this. See..I have a past as staff rep within some of the companies/organisations I have worked for, and I ted to think in a very pragmatic "long term" kind of matter..
Maybe money is futile, maybe it's dirty, maybe people have their brains washed over it....I could go on and on... and I too don't particularly care for money per se either, but fact is, losing a dear one (who is probably the main earner in a given household) is a major catastrophe in more than one sense...
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:04 pm

Carbon Monoxide is oderless. Carbon Maonoxide poisoning causes flu-like symptoms which nobody admitted to having. While I am no doctor, nor was I present on the flight, I think that based on the AVHerald report, it seems more likely to be Hydrocarbon Toxicity. The article states "In March 2010 US Airways confirmed, that engine oil had leaked through a faulty seal into the bleed air supplying the air conditioning system". Based on the fact the cockpit is much smaller and confined then the passenger cabin, it would lead to greater exposure to the pilots and thus greater toxicity, which caused long-term health issues.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:09 pm

Suing for monetary damages is appropriate in this case by all means. The crew, one dead and the other with no career left, likely supported families and millions in potential earnings is now lost. Put yourself in their shoes LeCoq.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:17 pm

First, my condolences to the family and loved ones of the pilot who passed, reported to be a result of this incident which he never really recovered from, as well as condolences to the other pilot who lost his flying career as a result. Very sad.

That being said, this is a good time to post my third comment on this subject…in reviewing the Airliners.Net and Aviation Herald website entries daily, there continues a concerning, escalating number of reported smoke in the cockpit, smoke in the cabin, and unusual odor incidents with many different airlines and many different aircraft, and which in many cases those flights returned to the departure airport or diverted to a diversion airport (when en route) due to the event. Looking just at Aviation Herald there continues to be numerous incidents every week, and those events seemingly continue at that rate week after week.

If such events weren't potentially serious then those flights would not have returned to the departure airport or initiated en route diversions to land. Managers working in general industry or aviation know full well that such incidents can potentially become root cause events leading to larger safety issues if not proactively addressed and resolved/prevented properly and in a timely manner.

As such, these noted events related to smoke/odor, IMO should initiate an immediate proactive study by the FAA/NTSB/ICAO of why those events are happening constantly, what is the technical root cause for the events, and technically how those incidents/events can be eliminated by advanced PM, more detailed equipment inspections, enhanced regulation, etc. Don’t know if such a study is already underway.
 
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LeCoqFrancais
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:17 pm

26point2 wrote:
Suing for monetary damages is appropriate in this case by all means. The crew, one dead and the other with no career left, likely supported families and millions in potential earnings is now lost. Put yourself in their shoes LeCoq.

We were not brought up the same way, as it is not in my mentality of suing a party for money, what ever the reason maybe. I would prefer finding a way that the type of incident/accident that caused the lawsuit be prevented in the future.
The best example I can give of my mentality is something that happened to me last year, I am terminally ill and I had to be ambulanced to the hospital last year because after my stroke my health got worst, long story short I was denied medical care because of sexual orientation which caused two things: the first one being that I almost died and that my family had to pay out of pocket for private medical care to keep me alive and the second is that my already short life was shortened. I could have sued the hospital and Doctors for money because of what happened, and I had every reason to many would believe, but instead I simply decided to do all that I could so that other people would not get denied medical treatment because of there sexual orientation.
Sébastien C. Tourillon
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:58 pm

Did the FAA or NTSB classify this as an accident based on the outcome? If they're not doing so already, AA needs to ensure they do right by the FO whose career was cut short due to this maintenance issue. I doubt they have, however, as I'm increasingly disappointed with AA's resistance to admit that going with Twin Hill for their uniforms was a mistake in light of the thousands of employees who are experiencing varying degrees of health problems from them.

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
I am terminally ill


I know I'm taking things off-thread here, but I'm so sorry to hear that. My best to you and your family.
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LeCoqFrancais
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:33 am

EA CO AS wrote:
I know I'm taking things off-thread here, but I'm so sorry to hear that.

Thank you very much
EA CO AS wrote:
Did the FAA or NTSB classify this as an accident based on the outcome? If they're not doing so already, AA needs to ensure they do right by the FO whose career was cut short due to this maintenance issue. I doubt they have, however, as I'm increasingly disappointed with AA's resistance to admit that going with Twin Hill for their uniforms was a mistake in light of the thousands of employees who are experiencing varying degrees of health problems from them.

Call me stupid, but how does a uniform create health problems?
Sébastien C. Tourillon
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:26 am

If this report is correct, it was suicide.

David [Hill] and his crew had been exposed to oil fumes during a flight. He and his fellow crewmembers were taken off the aircraft on a stretcher and straight to the ER. And after a long and successful career of flying, both in the USAF and commercially, he never flew again, and nor did his first officer or most of his flight attendant crew – everyone was seriously affected by those fumes. The FAA took away his license because of the chronic ill health that followed that exposure. But despite that obvious and strong connection between the fumes and his cognitive problems, memory issues, and other neurological symptoms, his airline denied his workers compensation claim (twice), which had a major impact on his well-being, his access to appropriate health care, and his family’s finances. And last night, the pain of his illness and everything that accompanies losing one’s career and one’s health became too much of him to bear, and he ended his life.

http://aerotoxic.org/information/fume-e ... mber-2016/

May he find the peace he deserves.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:19 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Did the FAA or NTSB classify this as an accident based on the outcome? If they're not doing so already, AA needs to ensure they do right by the FO whose career was cut short due to this maintenance issue. I doubt they have, however, as I'm increasingly disappointed with AA's resistance to admit that going with Twin Hill for their uniforms was a mistake in light of the thousands of employees who are experiencing varying degrees of health problems from them.

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
I am terminally ill


I know I'm taking things off-thread here, but I'm so sorry to hear that. My best to you and your family.



Interesting to find this
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 37694.html

http://www.browncafe.com/community/thre ... es.357663/

Seems AA is not the first to complain about this problem. Alaska & UPS are having same issues.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:25 am

AS had the same issues a few years ago; they quickly ditched Twin Hill and went to an interim uniform solution while their new brand is incorporated into new uniforms being done by Seattle designer Luly Yang.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:36 am

What a disgrace, my heartfelt condolences to the families of this crew, it's time to install carbon monoxide / fume detectors in the Cockpit and Cabin.

It should be mandated, furthermore its time to get away from bleed air for cabin pressurization, the 787 has done it right.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:41 am

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
We were not brought up the same way, as it is not in my mentality of suing a party for money, what ever the reason maybe. I would prefer finding a way that the type of incident/accident that caused the lawsuit be prevented in the future.


Agreed completely. But the threat of liability for preventable injury often has the effect of achieving that goal. If a plaintiff is awarded damages in the amount of millions of dollars, which would not be an unreasonable amount in this case, it is very likely that the defendant company will be more motivated to thoroughly investigate the incident to prevent future occurrences.

Second, as the gentleman above noted, there is a financial consequence to a spouse when his/her partner can no longer earn an income due to death or incapacity. So, although I understand your sense that money can never make the victim or the widow whole again, it does assist the widow in a very practical sense. And, to the point about prevention, it does offer incentive for a corporation to act so that similar events (to the extent they can be prevented) are less likely to happen again.

Finally, as to your personal circumstance, I am sorry to hear of your condition and will hope and pray for the best for you and your family. Your experience indicates that you were the victim of a highly punishable form of discrimination in almost all western countries. I understand that money was not something that you felt you wanted, but don't you think that by pursuing legal remedies you may have prevented similar discrimination against others in the future? I'm just a bit surprised that given the devastating nature of what you described, you wouldn't feel it appropriate to hold the provider accountable for their violation of the law.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:49 am

EA CO AS wrote:
AS had the same issues a few years ago; they quickly ditched Twin Hill and went to an interim uniform solution while their new brand is incorporated into new uniforms being done by Seattle designer Luly Yang.


actually, they didn't "quickly" ditch Twin Hill. It was a fiasco. They first denied that any problem existed related to the uniforms then they tested the uniforms to back that up. It took a bit of time to get the FA's out of the uniforms. In the meantime, people lost their hair, had bad chemical burns on their arms, bodies and legs, some had respiratory problems. It took some time, relatively speaking, to finally get the FA's out of the uniform. Sadly, because they waited so long, FA's began to attribute any health issue that developed during the time they had this uniform to the Twin Hill uniform. I wish they would have reacted sooner - I think they would have saved themselves a lot of headaches. People still complain about issues related to the Twin Hill uniforms and we've had the new uniform for over two years now.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:20 am

26point2 wrote:
Suing for monetary damages is appropriate in this case by all means. The crew, one dead and the other with no career left, likely supported families and millions in potential earnings is now lost. Put yourself in their shoes LeCoq.



Agree. No one is saying that money is more important than health, love or happiness: we are all simply saying that when someone (who also happens to be the bread earner for a family) dies at work, there should be adequate monetary compensation to said family.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:04 pm

Did the pilot die shortly after, or did he die more recently? I'm a little comfused by the timeline of events. Nonetheless, RIP, and my condolences to his family, and that of the injured FO who can no longer fly again.

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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:09 pm

jeffh747 wrote:
Did the pilot die shortly after, or did he die more recently?



He died this week. Suicide.
 
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b727fa
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:09 pm

Interesting movie on this very issue. http://bit.ly/2gPpMnL

TCP poisoning is no joke folks. Been there.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:15 pm

b727fa wrote:
Interesting movie on this very issue. http://bit.ly/2gPpMnL


XXX is about this issue?
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:48 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
I wish they would have reacted sooner - I think they would have saved themselves a lot of headaches.


Same here. Point being, they did react, but even after that fiasco, and after seeing what AS had to go through with Twin Hill, you'd think that AA would 1.) not have gone with them, and 2.) IMMEDIATELY recalled the uniforms after the issues began to pop up.

Instead, they're investigating. I get that they have to do their due diligence on something this costly (and opening them up to liability), but they should have immediately erred on the side of safety and said, "We are shocked and disappointed to hear that our co-workers' health is being impacted by the uniforms from Twin Hill, and we ask that employees discontinue their use immediately." I realize they're allowing employees to purchase their own off-the-rack pieces as an ad-hoc solution, but that could and should have been done far quicker than this.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:34 pm

D L X wrote:
b727fa wrote:
Interesting movie on this very issue. http://bit.ly/2gPpMnL


XXX is about this issue?

NO! I'm not sure where that link came from! Sorry!

http://www.filmindustrynetwork.biz/feature-film-flight-313-conspiracy-set-december-release-vision-films/31596

Try this one...ACK.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:22 am

EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
I wish they would have reacted sooner - I think they would have saved themselves a lot of headaches.


Same here. Point being, they did react, but even after that fiasco, and after seeing what AS had to go through with Twin Hill, you'd think that AA would 1.) not have gone with them, and 2.) IMMEDIATELY recalled the uniforms after the issues began to pop up.

Instead, they're investigating. I get that they have to do their due diligence on something this costly (and opening them up to liability), but they should have immediately erred on the side of safety and said, "We are shocked and disappointed to hear that our co-workers' health is being impacted by the uniforms from Twin Hill, and we ask that employees discontinue their use immediately." I realize they're allowing employees to purchase their own off-the-rack pieces as an ad-hoc solution, but that could and should have been done far quicker than this.


I agree on all accounts. The way they're currently handling it is reminiscent of the way AS handled it but you would think with AS' experiences with Twin Hill they may have been able to take that and move in a little quicker.
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:52 am

I thought the death pilot was the one who make an emergency landing in a river near LGA Airport.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:00 am

TWA772LR

Why was this issue specific to the 762, and presumably not the 763?
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:37 am

caoimhin wrote:
LeCoqFrancais wrote:
We were not brought up the same way, as it is not in my mentality of suing a party for money, what ever the reason maybe. I would prefer finding a way that the type of incident/accident that caused the lawsuit be prevented in the future.


Agreed completely. But the threat of liability for preventable injury often has the effect of achieving that goal.


it doesn't achieve that goal if the overwhelming majority of cases are frivolous
and run up by ambulance chasers ( or like minded individuals.)

IMU the US system is majorly broken there.

Compare to false positives in other domains like cancer screenings.
the false positives really do kill people.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:56 pm

So if I smell fumes, whether at the airport terminal or spotting, should I be concerned for my health? What about burning rubber fumes from landing planes?
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:11 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
So if I smell fumes, whether at the airport terminal or spotting, should I be concerned for my health? What about burning rubber fumes from landing planes?

No. What's being discussed is a very specific toxic fume that is the result of TCP (aircraft oil additive to prevent breakdown and increase viscosity) being released into the cabin/flight deck. It is a neuro-toxin and very dangerous. It has a sour, wet-sock smell. It is sometimes described as a pungent, musty smell.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:06 pm

LeCoqFrancais wrote:
oldannyboy wrote:
How sad. Tragic. Poor man...
I really hope the families of the pilots involved received adequate monetary compensation.

Wow, that is really low in my opinion. You can't replace someone with money, and money won't change the situation. I personally find it useless to have a monetary compensation as it won't bring the loved one back, it won't change the situation and won't prevent this from happening again. If I was th family of the Captain, instead of getting money I would want to make sure that something like this never happens again as it would be sad that more people loose there flying capacities or there life because of a known and documented incident/accident. Money is something so futile but that some nations have brain washed there citizens into requesting everytime a little problem happens.

Well I'm sure it helps make up from a sudden loss of earnings and possible financial security.
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:49 pm

EA CO wrote:

Instead, they're investigating. I get that they have to do their due diligence on something this costly (and opening them up to liability), but they should have immediately erred on the side of safety and said, "We are shocked and disappointed to hear that our co-workers' health is being impacted by the uniforms from Twin Hill, and we ask that employees discontinue their use immediately." I realize they're allowing employees to purchase their own off-the-rack pieces as an ad-hoc solution, but that could and should have been done far quicker than this.


You are overlooking the liability exposure for both the airline from the flight attendants AND Twin Hill. The above statement basically immediately puts AA on the hook for personal injury liability for every FA from the moment it is released until they are given an alternative uniform to wear. Also, naming the uniform and the company makes Twin Hill the same target, which has not been adequately proven to the "avoids civil litigation" level yet. The best you cold have heard from AA would have been a weak statement acknowledging staff concerns, promising to investigate the issue, and allowing staff to voluntarily wear alternative sourced uniform pieces that closely matched the normal uniform pieces until the investigation is concluded and a formal decision rendered. At that point, AA will proceed to throw Twin Hill under the litigation bus, and demanding that TH indemnify AA for staff injury claims. TH, realizing that they can'take weather that kind of claim exposure, will immediately claim bankruptcy and reorganize under a new name, leaving everyone else holding the bag for injury and damages claims. The TH execs will then be richly rewarded by their new board (same as the old ) for weathering the whole ordeal and making barrels of money for everyone.

The ones that make out the best here are going to be the lawyers. The AA employees will be lumped in a class to have the financial clout to go after the deep pockets, enriching the lawyers and giving the employees pennies. AA's retained counsel will bill thousands of hours. TH's lawyers will extract their money for representing them up front and risk nothing with the loss, then will earn more for putting them through bankruptcy.

Did I miss anyone?
 
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caoimhin
Posts: 463
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Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:42 pm

WIederling wrote:
it doesn't achieve that goal if the overwhelming majority of cases are frivolous
and run up by ambulance chasers ( or like minded individuals.)

IMU the US system is majorly broken there.


Those "overwhelming majority of cases" don't result in the settlements that are likely to result in the changes that I'm describing. I practise law in the US and Ireland, although in commercial finance rather than personal injury litigation. I can however speak with some confidence in saying that lawsuits of the type we are discussing often do have the effect of modifying hazardous business practices. The threat of a lawsuit can work as a de facto regulation; there may be no regulation in a certain area, but the risk of legal exposure may guide a corporation to safer behaviours. Products liability has resulted in safer products put to market, and the elimination of hazardous products from the market (certain pharmaceuticals, asbestos, etc.).

This is a matter of dispute amongst legal scholars. But to say that "the US system is majorly broken" due to "ambulance chasers" shows a lack of understanding of that legal system.
 
D L X
Posts: 12680
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: US Airways pilot dies because of engine oil fumes incident/accident 6 years ago

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:12 pm

Why are we talking about flight attendant uniforms and law suits in a thread where a pilot committed suicide after he lost his ability to fly?

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