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SJPBR
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727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:25 am

 
SJPBR
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:27 am

Airplane HK-4544. Departing from El Dorado.

Source: Forum Contato Radar - Brazil
 
SJPBR
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:49 am

 
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Byron1976
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:18 am

Another sad news from Colombia...
 
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LamboAston
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:20 am

Can you translate it into english as most people on here can't read that language
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BravoEchoNov
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:23 am

Very tragic video of the 727 overrunning the runway shortly before it broke apart.

https://twitter.com/Transponder1200/sta ... 9995888640
 
hiflyeras
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:27 am

Very sad...god knows why they didn't abort the takeoff.
 
Seat1F
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:28 am

Acccording to El Tiempo news from Colombia, it was a cargo aircraft. Two confirmed fatalities, two injuries, and one missing. Main cargo was fish. Aircraft was destined for BOG.
 
Italianflyer
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:43 am

The Transponder 1200 group on Facebook has a video of the ill fated takeoff. I'd link it on here but have to get back to work.
 
flyboy_se
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:08 am

I prefer to be crazy and happy rather than normal and bitter
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:14 am

flyboy_se wrote:
http://youtu.be/eb6YIZQw7EA

http://youtu.be/6r_Vokp-InE

I'm trying to understand what we're seeing here. In the first video it overruns the runway, in the second it is airborne and manoeuvring at low level before appearing to lose control and strike the ground. It's hard to tell if the videos are from the same location or not. Am I right in concluding it has become airborne beyond the end of the runway, attempted to turn back, and struck the ground during the process?

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
hotelkilo
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:32 am

First video something definitely sounds bad well before it rotates.
the dialog of the people makes me believe it is the same point of view on both videos as they refer to the plane it's coming back.
 
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northstardc4m
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:40 am

it seems to be the same cammer... probably a helmet cam from the movement.

I agree something sounds off... though that may also be a bad quality mic?
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leleko747
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:42 am

VirginFlyer wrote:
flyboy_se wrote:
http://youtu.be/eb6YIZQw7EA

http://youtu.be/6r_Vokp-InE

I'm trying to understand what we're seeing here. In the first video it overruns the runway, in the second it is airborne and manoeuvring at low level before appearing to lose control and strike the ground. It's hard to tell if the videos are from the same location or not. Am I right in concluding it has become airborne beyond the end of the runway, attempted to turn back, and struck the ground during the process?

V/F



First video: clearly hits fences but the 727 was airborne already (wheels off the ground).
It seems that the plane gained altitude but was pretty damaged and crashed while attempting to circle back to the airport.

Puerto Carreño have a 1800m long runway (5906 ft) and 173ft of elevation.

Check out this takeoff at the same place, by the same 727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syl3tCqKbSs

and also this one (other airport BTW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHpnLPgdSvI

well, well, well...
I wonder when people will understand:
Embraer 190 or simply E190, not ERJ-190. E-Jets are NOT ERJs!
Boeing 747-8, not Boeing 747-800. Same goes for 787.
Airbus A320, not Airbus 320.
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xavier2511
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:02 am

Is he dumping fuel at 35 sec in the video https://youtu.be/6r_Vokp-InE?t=35 or are these just the vortices?
 
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TWA302
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:05 am

Those videos are insane!!!
 
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LamboAston
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:05 am

leleko747 wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
flyboy_se wrote:
http://youtu.be/eb6YIZQw7EA

http://youtu.be/6r_Vokp-InE

I'm trying to understand what we're seeing here. In the first video it overruns the runway, in the second it is airborne and manoeuvring at low level before appearing to lose control and strike the ground. It's hard to tell if the videos are from the same location or not. Am I right in concluding it has become airborne beyond the end of the runway, attempted to turn back, and struck the ground during the process?

V/F



First video: clearly hits fences but the 727 was airborne already (wheels off the ground).
It seems that the plane gained altitude but was pretty damaged and crashed while attempting to circle back to the airport.

Puerto Carreño have a 1800m long runway (5906 ft) and 173ft of elevation.

Check out this takeoff at the same place, by the same 727
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syl3tCqKbSs

and also this one (other airport BTW)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHpnLPgdSvI

well, well, well...

Looks like it struggled to get off the ground there on a good day. Maybe they loaded a couple too many tonnes of freight for the runway length
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Byron1976
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:43 am

Coming back to the topic, I got 3 posibilities: 1) wrong load distribution (heavy nose). 2) Overweight. 3) Wrong flap take off setup. 4) Engine failure during take off run. The fourth I'm skeptical because isn't visible any smoke from the engines or strange sounds from them.
 
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:43 am

TWA302 wrote:
Those videos are insane!!!


Those guys have balls of steel! If I saw a 727 coming toward me like that with no sign of lifting, I would haul ass to get myself out of there ASAP!
 
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N202PA
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:46 am

Here's another angle of the takeoff from one of the bikers (helmetcam?): http://youtu.be/wOyPsZUCr0s
 
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TheLion
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:47 am

Truly tragic and so sad. It's been a dreadful week for news so far.

Here's a full translation by hand and brain, rather than Google translate:

Crash of Boeing 727 of Aerosucre in Colombia

A Boeing 727-200 of cargo carrier Aerosucre hit the ground miles outside Puerto Carreño Airport, a regional airport.

The aircraft (registration HK-4544) crashed minutes after takeoff when it was setting out to El Dorado International Airport, Bogotá.

At the moment the medical situation of the five crew members is unknown. For its part, the Civil Aviation Authority of Colombia confirmed through its Twitter account that the accident happened earlier this afternoon Tuesday 20 December.

-----

AeroSucre SA is a cargo airline with its base in Bogotá's El Dorado International Airport. It was founded in 1969. It operates two Boeing 727s and two Boeing 737-200s in its fleet. This totals four aircraft in a fleet with an average age of 42.2 years.
 
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ADent
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 3:56 am

A Boeing 727-200 freighter of Aerosucre impacted the ground five miles outside the regional airport Puerto Carreno. The aircraft registration HK-4544 minutes after takeoff rushed his way to the El Dorado International Airport in Bogota, Colombia.

At the moment the medical situation of the five crew members on board the aircraft is unknown. For its part, the Civil Aeronautics confirmed through its Twitter account the accident that occurred the afternoon of this Tuesday, December 20.

AeroSucre SA is a cargo airline based at El Dorado International Airport in Bogota and was founded in 1969. In addition to having two teams Boeing 727, also operate two Boeing 737-200 and adding four aircraft in a fleet with an age Average of 42.2 years of life.

Translated by Google from: http://noticialibre.com/2016/12/20/se-e ... -colombia/
 
Okcflyer
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:10 am

Wonder if FOD damaged the engines and further made the situation even more dire?

Overweight maybe? Common practice I hope not. The video of the "successful" take off is obviously not within legal safety margins. :(

RIP!
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:13 am

N202PA wrote:
Here's another angle of the takeoff from one of the bikers (helmetcam?): http://youtu.be/wOyPsZUCr0s

Wow, just wow. There are people in that video even closer than the photographer. Scary stuff.

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
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TWA302
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:23 am

Okcflyer wrote:
Wonder if FOD damaged the engines and further made the situation even more dire?

Overweight maybe? Common practice I hope not. The video of the "successful" take off is obviously not within legal safety margins. :(

RIP!

Was thinking the same thing about the engines ingesting objects. But looking at this one, it doesn't appear he hit the fence, only missing the camera man and another guy by a few feet.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Syl3tCqKbSs

Is it me or does the plane look like they were trying to dump fuel? Hard to tell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r_Vokp-InE
Last edited by TWA302 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Revelation
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:24 am

TheLion wrote:
Truly tragic and so sad. It's been a dreadful week for news so far.

Here's a full translation by hand and brain, rather than Google translate:


Thank you, it is much appreciated.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
guillelds
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:29 am

SJPBR wrote:
Airplane HK-4544. Departing from El Dorado.

Source: Forum Contato Radar - Brazil


Destination was El Dorado
 
Waterbomber
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:09 am

They could have made it if they stayed wings level until they gained enough altitude, speed.
Banking the aircraft in an attempt to go back to the airport was the fatal mistake that sealed their fate.
Amazing that the survivor in the video could be in one piece after that.
 
TW870
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:19 am

Terrible news. So much talk about old 727s this week on a.net and then we lose one. This was an Air Jamaica bird originally - delivered in August of 1975 as a 727-2JO(A). As to the questions above about something not sounding right, it sounded like a normal JT8D takeoff to me. But something was obviously very wrong with the takeoff, and I have to wonder about damage to the frame or engines during the very late rotation. My first flight was on a 727. NW MSP-ATL in the fall of 1982.
 
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tb727
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:34 am

Tough to watch. 5900' runway doesn't leave much room for error and seeing other videos of that plane coming out of there, well I just don't know what to say other than RIP
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BALandorLivery
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:48 am

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEGj1rH1r0

Looks like they've had close shaves before..
 
WN732
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:57 am

Here is a compilation of all of the videos so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWg7Fcw2oeA
 
WN732
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:58 am

BALandorLivery wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEGj1rH1r0

Looks like they've had close shaves before..


That's insane.
 
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Carp12c
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:18 am

BALandorLivery wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEGj1rH1r0

Looks like they've had close shaves before..


Look at the little structure at 10 seconds on the right of the plane. It definitely seems like the wing struck that little structure, which might explain the bank angle in the final few seconds of the flight. I'm trying not to speculate here, but I bet the accident was due to a combination of hitting that little structure with some engines going out.
 
NickLAX
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:31 am

These guys have posted this before on other occasions - original poster: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syl3tCqKbSs

Seems this 727 departure out of SKPC is a regular occurance
 
crownvic
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:41 am

OK, my "Armchair Quaterback" view on this. The engines appeared to sound normal for a 722 doing a restricted take off. While I have always admired this airline, they have a reputation of operating "on the edge". Previous videos prove that they are doing operations where there is minimal margin for error, including take offs from the same airport, where the 722 crashed. Were the pilots "show boating" for people at the end of the runway and they pushed it a bit too far? Were they doing an operation where their safety margin was zero, for the flight they were operating? While it is easy to blame the old 722, perhaps one of the above scenarios was the real cause.
 
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richcam427
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:44 am

Well, damn. When you're lifting an overloaded 727 off a short runway with barely inches to the fence, eventually something bad is going to happen.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:28 am

Sh...., why did they decide to fly with such a large bank angle... Not an expert, of course, but the terrain is rather flat, if they would have flown a not so agressive turn they might have made it back to the airport....
 
Wayfarer515
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:19 am

Carp12c wrote:
BALandorLivery wrote:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyEGj1rH1r0

Looks like they've had close shaves before..


Look at the little structure at 10 seconds on the right of the plane. It definitely seems like the wing struck that little structure, which might explain the bank angle in the final few seconds of the flight. I'm trying not to speculate here, but I bet the accident was due to a combination of hitting that little structure with some engines going out.


Excellent observation, you can even see a flash after they impact the structure. I guess this will be another case of gross negligence. I guess it is time to check what is going on with the South American airlines and its regulators.
 
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garpd
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:19 am

In one of the videos you can see the No. 3 engine surging, presumably as it eats debris from the wing clipping a structure and maybe even some fencing. I doubt that engine was producing any useful thrust after that. Then in the longer video you see the plane banking into the dead engine. Big no no. This outfit has been known to fly over the MOT. If that is true in this case also, then they were flying on just 2 engines on a hot day, flying a steep bank into a dead engine at low level while possibly being too heavy. Dayum.
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b747400erf
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:11 am

WN732 wrote:
Here is a compilation of all of the videos so far:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWg7Fcw2oeA


That should have some warning message in your post since the man wearing the gopro runs up to the wreckage and you can see at least one survivor. It is not just a video of an aircraft crashing from far away. RIP to those that lost their life.
 
bennett123
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:41 am

A few thoughts;

1. He came very close to the spotters.
2. This meant that people were on hand to assist the first responders in identifying exactly where the injured man was.
3. If the spotters were not there, and he had been able to hit brakes/thrust reversers, and use the fence as an additional 'brake', would the crew have survived.
 
RalXWB
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:45 am

Why are those fossils still allowed to fly???
 
b747400erf
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:47 am

RalXWB wrote:
Why are those fossils still allowed to fly???


And the nonsense is showing up, it was only a matter of time.
 
bennett123
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:04 am

Fly a A350/B787 at zero feet and the outcome would be the same.
 
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garpd
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:06 am

RalXWB wrote:
Why are those fossils still allowed to fly???


What does the plane's apparent age have to do with this crash?
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terrificturk
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:05 am

looking at all the videos of previous take-offs with this aircraft and the fatal one, is it possible that the company skimped on MRO expenditure and hence the engines were way past their due (engine) shop date ? If so, they just wouldn't produce the relevant thrust needed for fully-laden take offs, even if cockpit clocks wld show relevant RPMs... thoughts ?
 
aviationaware
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:22 am

xavier2511 wrote:
Is he dumping fuel at 35 sec in the video https://youtu.be/6r_Vokp-InE?t=35 or are these just the vortices?


727 don't have fuel dump nozzles unless I am much mistaken.

/e looks like I was mistaken, sorry.
 
BHXLOVER
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:35 am

Looking at the previous videos and the amount of onlookers watching yesterday, it would seem that the departure of this aircraft was a regular source of entertainment for the locals. It nearly cost a lot of innocent people their lives.

After recent tragedies, someone needs to take a long hard look at aviation safety in Colombia. Regardless of the cause of this accident, experienced airmen will have known that operating this way was highly risky. The same as filing a flight plan without sufficient reserve fuel.

Who knows, perhaps they were forced in to it by circumstances. RIP to all the victims.
 
SimProgrammer
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Re: 727 Aerosucre is down

Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:43 am

Video shows flaps & slats on starboard wing are set. Can't see the port wing.

2nd video shows a steep bank to port.
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