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stevend08
Topic Author
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:20 am

DFW Terminal C

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:47 am

It looks Terminal C will not be getting the standard TRIP renovation... at least for now.

DFW is currently working on numerous new concessions throughout Terminal C including Chick fil A at C27 and an expanded Dickey's at C6 and are about to issue a RFP for additional concessions spaces.
There are also plans for Maggianos at C14, and additional Pappadeaux and Pappasito's restuarants. With the various new concessions throughout the terminal, DFW announced these wouldn't be the standard TRIP concessions per the attached presentation on the DFW website. (it's long).

Supposedly there have been cost overruns with TRIP that renovating C would be too much of a financial burden.

https://www.dfwairport.com/cs/groups/we ... 623363.pdf (look at page 87)
 
DFW789ER
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:20 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:52 am

Odd. Terminal C is busy, and really needs the refresh.
 
glbltrvlr
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Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:21 am

TRIP does nothing for being busy. In fact reducing space by the gates for more concessions just makes things worse.
 
AA737-823
Posts: 5541
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:22 am

This conversation came up several months ago.
Someone at that time posted that there were issues with asbestos, and the only realistic way forward was to demolish the terminal.
Several posters called foul on that explanation, for a number of sensible reasons, which primarily revolved around:
a) asbestos in C, but not A, B, or E??
b) demolish is the most expensive thing possible, when it involves asbestos mitigation...

So, I don't know what the reality is.

But I can tell you that I was in C yesterday, and BOY does it look awful. Straight outta 1991. All of the old trAAin signs were ripped off of the walls a decade ago, but the glue was left behind on many columns.
Just an ugly, unmaintained terminal like the rest of DFW was.

I still feel (opinion alert!) that if DFW would spend more money on maintenance, they wouldn't have needed to spend nearly as much to rebuild dilapidated terminals.
Window tint replacement does NOT cost billions.
 
freakyrat
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:35 pm

The asbestos remediation cost a bundle in the remodel of terminal A and E and one of the AA gate agents in C told me the cost to do the remediation in C and remodel C was more than to just remediate and demolish C and start all over.
 
justplanenutz
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:55 pm

I suspect this ties into Terminal F development. Phased reconstruction of partially-occupied structures can be significantly more expensive/complex than new construction. Perhaps the plan is to build Terminal F first, then vacate C entirely prior to remediation/demolition. If F is planned by 2025, that would mean they only need to nurse C along for 8 more years.
 
mcoatc
Posts: 173
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2009 2:23 am

Re: DFW Terminal C

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:16 pm

I suspect this ties into Terminal F development. Phased reconstruction of partially-occupied structures can be significantly more expensive/complex than new construction. Perhaps the plan is to build Terminal F first, then vacate C entirely prior to remediation/demolition. If F is planned by 2025, that would mean they only need to nurse C along for 8 more years.


That's what I heard the plan is as well. Build F, move some or all operations, and then raze C. Of course, this means you're not gaining additional capacity for nearly 10 years unless you rebuild C in halves.

I also imagine this is why F hasn't been formally announced yet as the last details of all of this are finalized. But, there have been a lot of engineering surveys and initial coordination for taxiway closures for construction, so it seems the wheels are turning behind the scenes.
 
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CV990A
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:21 pm

Had a layover in DFW earlier this year, and had to go from D to C - we got off the train into C and my wife's reaction was "Ew. Can we go back to the other terminal now?"
Kittens Give Morbo Gas
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 255
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:23 pm

C (or as I first knew it 3E) was a bit of an anomaly. When built it didn't have departure lounges, or any type of seating to speak of, at each gate. It had massive hold rooms with big departure boards that directed you to your gate right when it was time to board (something like the UA Express operation at IAH B South). I wonder if the increased cost of the asbestos remediation has something to do with the renovations that were done to standardize it. I also believe that the high gates in the last 1/4 of the terminal are a temporary structure.
 
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jsnww81
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:01 pm

Surprising to hear given C handles so much of American's traffic, but perhaps if Terminal F is seen as a replacement, this makes sense.

The TRIP construction feels like it's been dragging on forever. I know it's not easy to close off segments of a 40-year-old building and reconstruct, but this has definitely been a slow process. At least the glass partitions and sterile corridors from the old FIS in Terminal A were *finally* removed!
 
ahj2000
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Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:01 pm

Damn. Terminal C is the Dump of Dallas. It seems all the L-US flights I've taken have been out of the upper C gates, which are terrible. Like a pier that the budget ran low on so they just threw in a few gates and a toilet. Even going from C3X to C12 was nice last time, but far subpar to D or even E gates.
The Chick-Fil-A helps though (yum!)
Also, not only in C, but around DFW there are still abunch of AA Eagle logos (on gates in D, walls in C, etc). Will these ever go away? It looks like a blast from the past that they want to move forward from.
-Andrés Juánez
 
stevend08
Topic Author
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:20 am

Re:

Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:10 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
Also, not only in C, but around DFW there are still abunch of AA Eagle logos (on gates in D, walls in C, etc). Will these ever go away? It looks like a blast from the past that they want to move forward from.


Supposedly when they switched the gate backdrops in Terminal C to the New American logo. Significant issues arose with the electrical equipment at the gates. Therefore they are being much more cautious at D.
 
DFW789ER
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:20 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:17 am

glbltrvlr wrote:
TRIP does nothing for being busy. In fact reducing space by the gates for more concessions just makes things worse.


Having flown in and out of A, C and D in the last month, C is an embarrassment to Dallas and AA.
 
DFW789ER
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:20 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:18 am

glbltrvlr wrote:
TRIP does nothing for being busy. In fact reducing space by the gates for more concessions just makes things worse.


Having flown in and out of A, C and D in the last month, C is an embarrassment to DFW and AA.
 
glbltrvlr
Posts: 988
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:02 am

DFW789ER wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:
TRIP does nothing for being busy. In fact reducing space by the gates for more concessions just makes things worse.


Having flown in and out of A, C and D in the last month, C is an embarrassment to Dallas and AA.


Guess I'm not seeing any conflict between your statement and mine. To quote a certain political candidate, TRIP is lipstick on a pig. There may be HVAC and lighting upgrades, but to the majority of passengers, it's a coat of paint and less room to get around the waves of other passengers.
 
blacksoviet
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Re: DFW Terminal C

Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:30 am

Do employees have to clear security to walk between the secure area and the non-secure area? Do they have their own locked doors that they use keys for to access the secure area of the terminal?
 
DFW789ER
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:20 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:01 pm

glbltrvlr wrote:
DFW789ER wrote:
glbltrvlr wrote:
TRIP does nothing for being busy. In fact reducing space by the gates for more concessions just makes things worse.


Having flown in and out of A, C and D in the last month, C is an embarrassment to Dallas and AA.


Guess I'm not seeing any conflict between your statement and mine. To quote a certain political candidate, TRIP is lipstick on a pig. There may be HVAC and lighting upgrades, but to the majority of passengers, it's a coat of paint and less room to get around the waves of other passengers.


I'm not aware I was pointing out a conflict. I was stating C is a dump. Recently a traveling companion remarked to me how different A and C were. Whatever the costs, the renovations already done do give pax a more pleasing appearance and vendor options. The other changes over the years have helped, particularly the Skylink have made it more tolerable. The design was never meant to handle large amounts of transferring pax. I still have an issue of Popular Science that had an article on the airport at the beginning of construction, the 13 terminal diagrams, and touting the fact one could get from car to plane in one minute.

At one time, AA was talking a long linear concourse on the west side which would have eventually required the removal of then 2E. Obviously the cost outweighed the benefit.
 
glbltrvlr
Posts: 988
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 4:28 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:23 pm

DFW789ER wrote:
At one time, AA was talking a long linear concourse on the west side which would have eventually required the removal of then 2E. Obviously the cost outweighed the benefit.


Benefit for who? :smile:

I had no problem with Terminal D - it started out as a great, modern terminal design. High ceilings, plenty of gate space, wide hallway space and centralized concessions that kept people from spilling out into traffic lanes. When it first opened, I would make it a point to have meals there, even for domestic connections between other terminals. Unfortunately, now they have reduced gate space by filling in seating areas with stores, and doing the same with the hallways, all in the name of attempting to increase retail sales at the expense of their primary mission, which should be to provide a clear, easy concourse.

Terminal B is also a mess. No space to speak of in the stingers and the main hall clearly designed for 50 seat passenger aircraft. As the RJs get larger, there's less and less room for people to get around. But it looks pretty between 2AM and 6AM.

There's several reasons why reducing space is a bad idea. When DFW was designed, load factors were mostly in the 60s. Now they rarely are below 90. Banking also creates peaks that weren't common then. If I could set the building code, I'd specify that every gate (mainline or RJ) must have seating for 75% of the largest aircraft that could be accommodated at that gate, and that no spillage into traffic lanes could occur.

There's a reason Changi wins best airport in the world every year. I'd be willing to bet they have far more services and retail space than DFW, but they don't do it at the expense of the passenger like DFW, ORD, LAX and the others do. PEK, KUL and a host of other modern terminals do it as well.
 
DFW789ER
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:20 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:20 pm

glbltrvlr wrote:
DFW789ER wrote:
At one time, AA was talking a long linear concourse on the west side which would have eventually required the removal of then 2E. Obviously the cost outweighed the benefit.


Benefit for who? :smile:

I had no problem with Terminal D - it started out as a great, modern terminal design. High ceilings, plenty of gate space, wide hallway space and centralized concessions that kept people from spilling out into traffic lanes. When it first opened, I would make it a point to have meals there, even for domestic connections between other terminals. Unfortunately, now they have reduced gate space by filling in seating areas with stores, and doing the same with the hallways, all in the name of attempting to increase retail sales at the expense of their primary mission, which should be to provide a clear, easy concourse.

Terminal B is also a mess. No space to speak of in the stingers and the main hall clearly designed for 50 seat passenger aircraft. As the RJs get larger, there's less and less room for people to get around. But it looks pretty between 2AM and 6AM.

There's several reasons why reducing space is a bad idea. When DFW was designed, load factors were mostly in the 60s. Now they rarely are below 90. Banking also creates peaks that weren't common then. If I could set the building code, I'd specify that every gate (mainline or RJ) must have seating for 75% of the largest aircraft that could be accommodated at that gate, and that no spillage into traffic lanes could occur.

There's a reason Changi wins best airport in the world every year. I'd be willing to bet they have far more services and retail space than DFW, but they don't do it at the expense of the passenger like DFW, ORD, LAX and the others do. PEK, KUL and a host of other modern terminals do it as well.


Ok, I'm not going to debate you since we aren't even close to being on the same page. Merry Christmas.
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1841
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: DFW Terminal C

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:53 pm

Terminal C is a DUMP. Either renovate it or tear it down and start again. The rehabbed Terminal A looks like the Ritz Carlton compared to C.
Whatever

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