gregn21
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:50 am

B752OS wrote:
wenders825 wrote:
this is a brilliant idea, especially given that AA serve BCN from all their east coast hubs, and I'd imagine demand to/from BCN from LAX and SFO is stronger than it is from DFW or PHX.


I would imagine there are a few cities (apart from LAX and SFO) that lack BCN service that are larger local markets than DFW and PHX.


DY is actually starting BCN-LAX/OAK next summer.
 
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wolfsburg
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:04 am

3AWM wrote:
Given the connection opportunities through Vueling it makes sense to add long haul at BCN.

Any idea where the A330s are going to come from?


Aer Lingus? Iberia? Also couple of relatively new A330 sitting at Taiwan now
 
jmmadrid
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:35 am

wolfsburg wrote:
3AWM wrote:
Given the connection opportunities through Vueling it makes sense to add long haul at BCN.

Any idea where the A330s are going to come from?


Aer Lingus? Iberia? Also couple of relatively new A330 sitting at Taiwan now


Iberia's 330 are fully committed to their daily operation. Little room for new long-haul flights without cancelling other flights. Relocating TWO aircraft to another airline would be difficult, but I guess cutting one frequency here and another one there it's not completely impossible to free them up.

They do have, however, some 340s stored. On the bright side, they are paid for and they have a Y-heavy configuration, on the not so bright side we all know they have a reputation of being gas guzzlers and Iberia blamed them in the past for its financial problems.
 
Summa767
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:49 am

jmmadrid wrote:
wolfsburg wrote:
3AWM wrote:
Given the connection opportunities through Vueling it makes sense to add long haul at BCN.

Any idea where the A330s are going to come from?


Aer Lingus? Iberia? Also couple of relatively new A330 sitting at Taiwan now


Iberia's 330 are fully committed to their daily operation. Little room for new long-haul flights without cancelling other flights. Relocating TWO aircraft to another airline would be difficult, but I guess cutting one frequency here and another one there it's not completely impossible to free them up.


IB have 3 additional A332s still to be delivered in the next few months, so I imagine that one will allow for an increased summer schedule at MAD, but the other 2 A330s to be used for the BCN long hauls.

Incidentally, IB has spare capacity now that their 10th A332, named "Tokio" has entered service (only a day or 2 ago.
Proof of the current spare capacity is that IB will be operating flights for Finnair 3 times a week between MIA and HEL in January.
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:06 am

Surely, sourcing two additional A333 (used, or new) for a group of the size of IAG should not be much of a problem?

What I've been wondering is how do they plan to fly BCN-NRT. A333 does not have the range for that, even the 242T version. They either need an A332 (with limited payload), or an A350...
 
Summa767
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:54 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
Surely, sourcing two additional A333 (used, or new) for a group of the size of IAG should not be much of a problem?


Indeed. If you read the post just above yours, you will see that IB is receiving 3 additional A330-200s in the coming months. That is on top of the ones already received, the latest of which started commercial service just this week.



thepinkmachine wrote:
What I've been wondering is how do they plan to fly BCN-NRT. A333 does not have the range for that, even the 242T version. They either need an A332 (with limited payload), or an A350...


Iberia are flying MAD-NRT with the A330-200s, that have 242T MTOW without any problems. BCN-NRT is shorter, so should not have problems either.
 
VFRonTop
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:56 pm

VS4ever wrote:
Lofty wrote:
Do IAG still have access to Go livery and brand? I k now it was sold off.


I don't think so, it was sold to the management team, then sold to U2 as a major part of their expansion, so they would have to buy it back to use it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_(airline)


How about 'Air Liberté'? I wonder if they still have access to that brand?

In any event they'll need a new AOC and build a completely new business which will take time any money. It would much easier to use an existing carrier as a proof of concept. I expect whatever the marketing brand is it'll be 'Catalunya/XXX Airways operated by Iberia'
 
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wolfsburg
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:23 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
Surely, sourcing two additional A333 (used, or new) for a group of the size of IAG should not be much of a problem?

What I've been wondering is how do they plan to fly BCN-NRT. A333 does not have the range for that, even the 242T version. They either need an A332 (with limited payload), or an A350...

Yea A332 makes more sense
 
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wolfsburg
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:24 pm

jmmadrid wrote:
wolfsburg wrote:
3AWM wrote:
Given the connection opportunities through Vueling it makes sense to add long haul at BCN.

Any idea where the A330s are going to come from?


Aer Lingus? Iberia? Also couple of relatively new A330 sitting at Taiwan now


Iberia's 330 are fully committed to their daily operation. Little room for new long-haul flights without cancelling other flights. Relocating TWO aircraft to another airline would be difficult, but I guess cutting one frequency here and another one there it's not completely impossible to free them up.

They do have, however, some 340s stored. On the bright side, they are paid for and they have a Y-heavy configuration, on the not so bright side we all know they have a reputation of being gas guzzlers and Iberia blamed them in the past for its financial problems.

AirAsia X used to fly A343 on KUL - STN / LGW / ORY and not profitable even though the load was very high, so I don't think they dare to do the same thing again...
 
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Aisak
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:21 pm

Well, if I am not mistaken IAG owns an airline called openskies which is used for flights between EU and the US. Recently it is mainly for Paris-New York. They have a French AOC so they could fly BCN-US (not so sure about other routes)
 
thepinkmachine
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:44 am

wolfsburg wrote:
Yea A332 makes more sense


Yes, it has the range to do the flight, but I doubt the economics of this airplane would work, esp. for an LCC
 
Bluebird191
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:47 am

thepinkmachine wrote:
wolfsburg wrote:
Yea A332 makes more sense


Yes, it has the range to do the flight, but I doubt the economics of this airplane would work, esp. for an LCC


Works for EW at the moment, and it worked quite well for JQ for all the years they had them.
 
theSFOspotter
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:19 am

We find out next month, rumor is SFO and NRT 3-4x weekly
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LX138
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:38 pm

I think the 332 would be pushed on BCN-NRT though, and they would want a high density config too which wouldn't help.

EI - no way are they going to be running long haul out of BCN, they have very little brand recognition within continental Europe and the long haul operation on equipment is running very, very lean to say the least right now.

IB would seem the obvious choice, the unions could be a major issue when it comes to staffing though.
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Lofty
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:14 am

It sounds like a ploy to get the unions on side. Just think about it. we want IB to operate a Longhaul LCC but we need to keep the costs down if we can't reach an agreement then we will start-up a new airline.

One thing I have not seen is could they be operated by IB Express.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:33 am

Lofty wrote:
It sounds like a ploy to get the unions on side. Just think about it. we want IB to operate a Longhaul LCC but we need to keep the costs down if we can't reach an agreement then we will start-up a new airline.

One thing I have not seen is could they be operated by IB Express.


Iberia Express has been mentioned a few times, but that's not going to be it either. I think their best chances lie with the Vueling brand. Why start a new airline when you already got a suitable one?

However in the end I think they don't stand a chance against Norwegian. Not with the A330 at least. If I got the choice between flying the 787 or the A330 I prefer the 787 any time. Maybe if they can get their hands on the A330NEO they can beat the 787, but not with the current A330.
 
BestWestern
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:34 pm

The operating airline and marketing airline don't have to be the same. It could be EI sold as vueling for example.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
BestWestern
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:37 pm

PatrickZ80 wrote:
Lofty wrote:
It sounds like a ploy to get the unions on side. Just think about it. we want IB to operate a Longhaul LCC but we need to keep the costs down if we can't reach an agreement then we will start-up a new airline.

One thing I have not seen is could they be operated by IB Express.


Iberia Express has been mentioned a few times, but that's not going to be it either. I think their best chances lie with the Vueling brand. Why start a new airline when you already got a suitable one?

However in the end I think they don't stand a chance against Norwegian. Not with the A330 at least. If I got the choice between flying the 787 or the A330 I prefer the 787 any time. Maybe if they can get their hands on the A330NEO they can beat the 787, but not with the current A330.



From a passenger perspective, the 330 is just as comfortable as the 787. With Vueling feed they have a super chance of succeeding.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ahj2000
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Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:08 pm

A330 is MORE comfortable to the average pax. 2-4-2 is drastically better than a claustrophobic 3-3-3. The range and CASM is where the 787 wins, though
-Andrés Juánez
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:25 pm

The official LAX Twitter account is saying VY will launch BCN-LAX in June:

https://twitter.com/flylaxairport/statu ... 6159923200
 
nascar1
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:45 pm

LHRFlyer wrote:
The official LAX Twitter account is saying VY will launch BCN-LAX in June:

https://twitter.com/flylaxairport/statu ... 6159923200


In my opinion, is the best option instead of creating a new brand.
 
fjmm92
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:59 pm

Is the best option but some people associate Vueling with delays...Remember the chaos of S16...
 
alexwm
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:18 pm

I think we all agree VY is the best option (from an IAG perspective), as in my view it's important to differentiate these from the full-service long-haul routes run by IB in Madrid. If this is confirmed, there's still the possibility that the flights are VY branded but operated by EI or IB. Note that the former is currently conducting crew recruitment in the south of Spain.

As a separate note, I really hope that the launch of these long-haul routes implies that VY will be joining OneWorld. It's incredibly annoying for those of us with status on OneWorld airlines other than IB, that we can't enjoy the usual benefits on VY.
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:21 pm

Lots of airlines have had tough summers, but they do recover from them. BA had a terrible run of summers at LHR in the years before Terminal 5 with very severe disruption (wildcat industrial action, Gate Gourmet, cancellations due to staff shortages etc) but now these have been largely forgotten it has a very successful summer leisure business.
 
nascar1
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:46 pm

LAX Airport Twitter account has deleted the tweet.

What can we expect with that, an error about the info?
 
fjmm92
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:40 am

It has been a leak. There is a rumor that Vueling will announce long-haul routes next wednesday, and LAX is one of them. The two A330 will be from Aer Lingus.
 
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hispanola
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:53 pm

fjmm92 wrote:
It has been a leak. There is a rumor that Vueling will announce long-haul routes next wednesday, and LAX is one of them. The two A330 will be from Aer Lingus.


This is fantastic! I do hope that the rumours are wrong about the EI metal, though. This is such an eventful time for Aer Lingus and they need that extra capacity. Every summer they call upon the likes of Omni for more TATL aircraft. It would be nice if they could just operate with their own equipment for once. Vueling could use some of the Wamos A330s, which seems more plausible to me given the fact that EI needs theirs and Wamos already leases 747-400s to Saudia and Conviasa.
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alexwm
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:10 pm

Latest news in Spain say that Vueling will wet-lease the 2 A330s from Aer Lingus, including pilots and cabin crew. That's probably the reason why the latter is currently recruiting in Spain and Italy (IAG may expect to have substantial feed from Italy via Vueling).
 
A60Stock
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:59 pm

I imagine to reach EZE (one of the proposed routes, I believe) they would have to buy up some A332's, if they wish to bring down the cost of this exercise to have less to offset in case it all goes wrong, I guess they could get the A330-203's that both KLM and LATAM are retiring at around 10-12 years of age.
Types flown: A319, A320, B734, B738, B744, B77W and E195.
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LHRFlyer
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:03 pm

It will be interesting to see how IAG positions this.

From comments previously made by Willie Walsh, IAG has spent a lot of time studying Norwegian's business model and they've seen how price can generate new demand for long-haul travel. But, at the same time, they will not want to cannibalise IB routes from Madrid.
 
ahj2000
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:32 pm

Apparently they have deleted the whole @laxairport account!! Someone's getting fired :/
-Andrés Juánez
 
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LAXintl
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:38 pm

Its still very much alive

https://twitter.com/flyLAXairport
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ahj2000
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:50 pm

Oooh. I had the wrong one. Oops!
-Andrés Juánez
 
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TheLion
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:03 pm

Yup indeed lol... @flyLAXairport is the official Twitter account.
 
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TheLion
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:17 pm

I really do think Iberia should operate these flights. Their costs are much reduced and Barcelona is a large market. It's also clear given the increasing number of nonstops on FSCs that it can support quality long haul carriers. I do wonder however if the rumour that Vueling will operate them instead could also be a political ploy given the potential for near-term independence of Catalunya. If that happens, they could then start up a new airline to serve the nascent nation, using existing Vueling routes.

As for suggestions that EI aircraft might operate the new routes, that is surprising. Unless they plan to use just one frame, which even at 7 frequencies overall to two destinations, is hard to turnaround in time. It's hard to see how this might work given that EI do not have enough capacity to operate their full summer schedule until their new frames arrive. EI are expecting two new A333s next summer yet that should only give them enough capacity to cover their current plans, which include an upgauge for Toronto, LA going daily, plus more frequencies to Chicago and Orlando. Then there's the new Miami service beginning September 1st and another new route is also rumoured.

Source: http://www.irishcentral.com/travel/aer- ... i-and-more

It'll be interesting to see what their confirmed plans are.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:57 pm

There's no reason the A330s being acquired by IAG for this venture could not be operated by EI, in addition to the currently planned DUB based A330 fleet.
It may be that EI would temporarily operate the A330s for Vueling until they are ready to operate them themselves, or that EIs current A332s would be passed to Vueling as EI get more A333s. It's surely a much easier task to add 2x A330s to an existing fleet than to add a whole new type to an airline in time for summer. Not to mention Vueling is already operationally challenged. Once the single-isle operation is sorted then they could look to take over wide-body flying over winter 17/18.
 
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albertocsc
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:56 pm

I would like to discuss some points that are being commented on this thread.

About of the titular (or marketing) airline for these new services, the best bid would be Vueling. Actually they also fly under the Spanish (and European) flag, next to the aircraft registration code, but it has a much more Catalan and low-cost feeling than Iberia. Anyways, one could perfectly say that Iberia's colors match perfectly those on the Catalan flag, and that Iberia is a word that encompasses all countries in the Iberian Peninsula, not only Spain. But it is true that Iberia has not used Barcelona as a hub in a long time, even if it is still indicated as such in the in-flight magazine.

Other option discussed here was resurrecting some former IAG brand. Air Liberté or Go would not be really appealing, I guess. Former Spanish IAG brands were Aviaco and Viva. Viva was more of a vacational Lufthansa+Iberia airline, so my bet would be Aviaco, the second Spanish airline until the 1990s.

As for the operating airline, if they prefer an in-house operator, that should be Aer Lingus, with Iberia as a second option. I have seen someone suggesting Wamos as an outsourcing option, but at this moment they only have 1 332, and 5 744s of which 4 are in Conviasa and Saudia. Evelop has 2 333s and Plus Ultra has 2 343s (soon 3), to say other Spanish options, aside from Air Europa, that would not want or be able to cooperate.

Last summer, for relieving their capacity crisis, Vueling leased, at some point or another, planes from Plus Ultra (340), Wamos (747), Privilege (757/767), Avion Express (320), Evelop (320/330), Titan (320/757), Air Nostrum (CRJ1000), Euroatlantic (767/777), AirExplore (737) and White (320), so maybe the 330s could be leased from some of these companies.

Finally, someone said about expanding Meridiana in Italy and to Spain, now that they are "cousin" airlines to IAG. Last time Meridiana expanded to Spain they ended up closing the Spanish operations, but maybe a second try could be better than the first. Anyways, this option would be more in control of Qatar than of IAG, so I guess this is not going to be the plan.
 
BayAreaFlyer
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:27 am

I read a Spanish aviation publication saying it will be BCN-LAX, BCN-OAK, BCN-SCL and BCN-EZE, all service to begin mid-June by VY. HAV and NRT was not mentioned.
 
jmmadrid
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:06 am

BayAreaFlyer wrote:
I read a Spanish aviation publication saying it will be BCN-LAX, BCN-OAK, BCN-SCL and BCN-EZE, all service to begin mid-June by VY. HAV and NRT was not mentioned.


BCN-LAX and BCN-OAK to compete head to head with Norwegian. Little effect on Madrid Barajas as Iberia do not serve OAK/SFO and the flights from MAD to LAX are seasonal.

BCN-EZE to compete head to head with AEROLINEAS ARGENTINAS (Easy rival with extremely high fares). They probably want to put NORWEGIAN off launching this route as they might think it's too crowded. Can have some effect on IBERIA's MAD-EZE route as many people from BCN find it cheaper to fly/catch the train to MAD and fly from there for half the price.

BCN-SCL: This is the odd one out. Not a huge market and no nonstop competition. Another route launched so that Norwegian reconsider their priorities and try somewhere else first. Might have the biggest effect on IBERIA's MAD-SCL as currently BCN-MAD-SCL is the most convenient route for BCN passengers.

IAG probably know the number of planes to be delivered to NORWEGIAN this year and they probably know that they cannot open more routes from BCN for the moment. This buys IAG some time to plan the next steps better. HAV and NRT will come next, but IAG need to postpone them as much as they can, as these routes will definitely have a negative impact on IBERIA's MAD-HAV and MAD-NRT.
 
nascar1
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:09 pm

One hour ago, a friend sent me this picture. I don't know if is just fake or there are doing some tests on their own booking system.

Image
 
fjmm92
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:11 pm

There is a screenshoot of the BCN-LAX flight operated by Vueling here:

https://twitter.com/Oliver_Mauri/status ... 5775927297

Fake or web test?
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:56 pm

Either one of those two, because I don't see Los Angeles listed on the Vueling site myself.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:01 pm

Vueling appear to be denying that any web test or flights were on sale via twitter, simply tweeting to me a few minutes ago, "...we confirm to you that this is not true. Regards." but they would say that, wouldn't they!
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:10 pm

I think you should look very careful at what they say and how they say it. They say no web tests or flights were on sale. Of course not, web tests aren't for sale. Flights haven't been for sale yet either, but that doesn't say they haven't been testing them in a test environment. Or did they say flights were not on sale via twitter? Of course, flights are not sold via twitter! They're being sold via their website.
 
BayAreaFlyer
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:44 pm

It is indeed a fake post I can see the outline cut marks on the texts and images. Most likely edited using MS paint, routes don't start until mid-June.
 
A340Man
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:27 pm

Interesting to see how that will turn out. I would wager that Iberia will be taking charge mainly because they already have A330s and they can use them on flights to Madrid when they need maintenance etc...
Is it most likely to be a separate entity or will it be Iberia or Iberia Express or less likely Vueling?
 
BestWestern
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:03 am

http://www.travelextra.ie/sunday-supplement-template-2/

Announcement next Wednesday that the services will operated by a wet leased EI aircraft. Makes sense. Walsh has already stated that EI is the low cost long haul carrier within IAG.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
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LuxuryTravelled
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:22 am

Due to the labour rules in Spain, from what I have heard it can't be 'operated' by either Vueling or Iberia, hence why EI are operating on behalf of, using EI contracts. It isn't like EI don't have experience of 'white labelling' given they had the Little Red contract at Virgin...
 
by738
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:34 pm

Is there really a massive brand awareness advantage for VY over EI even in Barcelona? Why not just operate them as EI. EI probably more well known on US side.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: IAG to launch long haul flights from BCN next S17.

Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:02 pm

by738 wrote:
Is there really a massive brand awareness advantage for VY over EI even in Barcelona? Why not just operate them as EI. EI probably more well known on US side.


Yes there certainly is. Don't underestimate the brand awareness of Vueling in Barcelona, it's huge. And not only in Barcelona, but all over Europe.

Aer Lingus from Barcelona? I don't think that would work. They hardly got any brand knowledge there other than being "that Irish airline" and "not from around here". Of course it could be Aer Lingus branded as Vueling, but from a passengers perspective Vueling is a much better choice.

I agree they don't have brand knowledge in America yet, but neither did Norwegian when they first started flying long haul. They've built it up quickly, so why can't Vueling do the same?

The fact that Aer Lingus is known in America could also be a disadvantage, it's just a matter of how they are known. To me they're known as rather expensive, a legacy airline, full service. That's not the image you want on these flights.

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