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senatorflyer
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Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:43 pm

Luca Cordero di Montezemolo gave Unicredit and Intesa Sanpaolo an ultimatum. They threatened with declaring bankruptcy if the banks won’t increase the credit limits by a further 180 million Euros. Etihad is not prepared to pump more money in.

Source in German: http://www.aerotelegraph.com/alitalia-d ... die-pleite
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Typo fixed
 
Natflyer
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:57 pm

The never ending story...
 
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winterlight
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:14 pm

They spent more than that on the new livery.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
PanHAM
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:18 pm

Pull the plug before more Money is wasted
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
KLDC10
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:37 pm

There's a surprise.

It is doubtful that the Italian government will allow Alitalia to fail, however. The incumbent government is already deep in the midst of a domestic political crisis, with rising populist sentiments and possible early elections. The loss of a national icon like Alitalia would be politically disastrous.
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Varsity1
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:46 pm

Might be the ultimate basket case of an airline.
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
VictorKilo
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:00 pm

Even if the banks wanted to lend Alitalia the money, the banks don't have it to lend. Unicredit may be the next domino to fall in the Italian banking sector next to Monte dei Paschi di Siena. Alitalia is overplaying a weak hand here.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:16 pm

Thank goodness that Etihad finally will stop putting in money.
The quicker that this dead duck is buried the better, bet :twocents: it's not around this time next year.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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peterinlisbon
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:19 pm

They go bankrupt every 3 years and somehow always survive. I'm sure this time they'll get taken over again by another holding company with the government owning x percent and some obscure airline owning another bit or some other wierd formula.
 
Waterbomber
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 6:56 pm

EY, Intesa Sanpaolo and Unicredit have agreed to give AZ a lifeline.
http://www.corriere.it/economia/16_dice ... 5ecd.shtml

It's probably enough to last less than a year, as they are rumored to be losing over half a million Euro's a day.
Intesa Sanpaolo and Unicredit are part of CAI, the other 51% of AZ, and they also own major stakes in Italian airports.
Whatever they lose from AZ, they can partially get back through their airport investments and favors from the government in other matters. The favors from the government are the most important part, as they are not particularily in good shape.
 
guillelds
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:08 pm

Alitalia should shut down. Any money invested in that company is wasted. To be profitable, a new airline should be created, with no or little participation of italian government.
 
planespotter20
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:17 pm

If only you could just scrap everything, and start over. Then it could be better. The carrier was dealt the wrong cards... again
 
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piedmontf284000
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:21 pm

Waterbomber wrote:
EY, Intesa Sanpaolo and Unicredit have agreed to give AZ a lifeline.
http://www.corriere.it/economia/16_dice ... 5ecd.shtml

It's probably enough to last less than a year, as they are rumored to be losing over half a million Euro's a day.
Intesa Sanpaolo and Unicredit are part of CAI, the other 51% of AZ, and they also own major stakes in Italian airports.
Whatever they lose from AZ, they can partially get back through their airport investments and favors from the government in other matters. The favors from the government are the most important part, as they are not particularily in good shape.


They should just focus on TA flights with a mix of regional routes within Italy and leave it at that. With all the low budget airlines in Europe now, there is no way they can compete.


guillelds wrote:
Alitalia should shut down. Any money invested in that company is wasted. To be profitable, a new airline should be created, with no or little participation of italian government.


Too many jobs would be lost...12,700 to be exact...of which how many are patronage positions? Lay off 10 percent, cut some routes, and park some planes. Do what should have been done 5 years ago.

Varsity1 wrote:
Might be the ultimate basket case of an airline.


I think Air India still has them beat
 
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richcam427
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:35 pm

Alitalia is a dumpster fire.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:21 pm

Poor title. They do not need 180 million to survive bankruptcy. They are threatening bankruptcy as a way to extort (negotiate if your a lawyer) a larger credit line from a bank.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:26 pm

KLDC10 wrote:
There's a surprise.

It is doubtful that the Italian government will allow Alitalia to fail, however. The incumbent government is already deep in the midst of a domestic political crisis, with rising populist sentiments and possible early elections. The loss of a national icon like Alitalia would be politically disastrous.


Under European law the government cannot keep proving them up without getting paid back. Melee had to repay money from there government for violating state aid regulations for prat business. When they could not do it they were ordered insolvent and closed down. If Italy or France fro that matter do that with their respective airlines they will be in trouble as well. So no they are not to big or important for the country to fail.
 
KLDC10
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:34 pm

rbavfan wrote:
Under European law the government cannot keep proving them up without getting paid back. Melee had to repay money from there government for violating state aid regulations for prat business. When they could not do it they were ordered insolvent and closed down. If Italy or France fro that matter do that with their respective airlines they will be in trouble as well. So no they are not to big or important for the country to fail.


I'm aware that such laws exist, but the last time Alitalia was in trouble, the Government was able to have the state-owned Italian Postal Service take a stake in the airline in order to circumvent the issue. So the ability of the government to do something is demonstrably not quite as clear cut as it appears.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:41 pm

180 million euros is a piece of cake. The airline is far too big anyway, so all they got to do is sell a number of aircraft. But in the end I think they won't make it anyway, the competition is simply too heavy and they provide an unneccessary product. For each of their routes there's a cheaper alternative. They end up selling their whole fleet to pay off the debts and that will be the end of Alitalia.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:55 pm

Why did they order a single 777-300ER?
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
klakzky123
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:00 pm

Airlines like Alitalia are the ones that paid the price for the EU common aviation market. I wonder if governments like Italy had a chance to re-vote on that whether they would agree to it. The Italians are powerless to stop an airline from Ryanair or Easyjet from poaching the domestic market especially when your flag carrier is poorly run and incredibly bloated.

At the end of the day, the common aviation market was a huge win for consumers so I'm glad its here but with the anti-EU forces gaining ground, I'd be curious about the future of the common market.
 
TAFFY51
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:21 pm

What about selling or leasing out some LHR slots? Seems mad but it would raise capital and do they really need them? now if only they had already had slots accepted at another London airport...maybe to the north ;)
 
LHRFlyer
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:06 pm

TAFFY51 wrote:
What about selling or leasing out some LHR slots? Seems mad but it would raise capital and do they really need them? now if only they had already had slots accepted at another London airport...maybe to the north ;)


They have already sold five LHR slot pairs to Etihad which are currently leased back to Alitalia:

https://londonairtravel.com/2014/08/10/ ... -alitalia/
 
anstar
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankruptcy

Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:14 pm

TAFFY51 wrote:
What about selling or leasing out some LHR slots? Seems mad but it would raise capital and do they really need them? now if only they had already had slots accepted at another London airport...maybe to the north ;)


I thought they had already flogged some LHR slots in favour of moving those flights to LCY a few years back?
 
AF022
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Re: Alitalia needs180 million Euros to survive or bankrupcy

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:25 pm

[quote="piedmontf284000"][quote="Waterbomber"]EY, Intesa Sanpaolo and Unicredit have agreed to give AZ a lifeline.
They should just focus on TA flights with a mix of regional routes within Italy and leave it at that. With all the low budget airlines in Europe now, there is no way they can compete.

When I look at their long-haul schedule, see the following:
JFK-MXP/FCO
NRT-MXP/FCO
AUH-MXP/FCO
and direct between FCO and BOS, MIA, HAV, MEX, SCL, EZE, GRU, GIG, PEK and ICN.

Do they make money on any of these routes? I don't know much about their markets, but I would assume their isn't much traffic to/from AUH unless they are feeding a lot of traffic to EY. JFK-MXP is very competitive with AZ, AA, DL and EK. Maybe they are doing ok JFK-FCO because less competition but probably very seasonal? HAV and GIG are probably mostly leisure. Why do they have nonstop SCL?

If anyone has insights on their long-haul I would be interested in laerning.

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