DC1979
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AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:34 pm

I came across this article about an agreement between Air Canada and Cathay Pacific. Is this Air Canada flipping off TG?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/air-canad ... 00404.html

I find it interesting that they have reached agreements with Virgin Australia and Cathay Pacific. I guess they are starting to look outside Star Alliance!!
 
9252fly
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:49 pm

I have to admit this is surprising news and very unexpected. I thought CX was code-sharing with WS domestically within Canada? The agreement does make sense for AC passengers connecting onward within SE Asia. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the fact that these two airlines are in different alliances with AC having various partners within the region,NH OZ SQ and TG. As mentioned in the OP, TG was a partner and 3 of the code-share destinations with CX are in Thailand.
 
keitherson
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:27 pm

Two factors here: China and American Airlines.

Cathay is under long-term threat from Mainland Chinese carriers dumping capacity on the NA-Asia market and their continuous growth, launching even secondary city markets. (Vancouver to Zhengzhou, anyone?) Even no-name carriers in NA like Sichuan Airlines and Beijing Capital Airlines are launching service.

Cathay is also not happy with AA, having been left out with the joint venture with JAL. They barely codeshare on routes. AA is also not happy with Cathay having a veto in oneworld on Mainland Chinese carriers joining. This has left the growing Chinese market a problem, so AA had to grow LAX into a bigger hub with transpacific flights: launching 77W to HKG, 787 to PVG, etc.

This agreement is one way of Cathay using their leverage against AA. It's got nothing to do with TG, because while AC may codeshare to Thailand via HKG, it's a far cry since AC does not have service to BKK themselves.

We may see Singapore AIrlines forced to play similar cards and have some surprising partners as alliances break down.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:30 pm

AA and CX are not allowed in a JBA because of the U.S.-HK air treaty. I assure you that if the air treaty became Open Skies, AA would immediately scramble to have CX join. Any claim that CX is "upset" otherwise is utter nonsense. CX can't be upset at AA because of the law that AA did not create.
a.
 
jfk777
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:06 am

keitherson wrote:
Two factors here: China and American Airlines.

Cathay is under long-term threat from Mainland Chinese carriers dumping capacity on the NA-Asia market and their continuous growth, launching even secondary city markets. (Vancouver to Zhengzhou, anyone?) Even no-name carriers in NA like Sichuan Airlines and Beijing Capital Airlines are launching service.

Cathay is also not happy with AA, having been left out with the joint venture with JAL. They barely codeshare on routes. AA is also not happy with Cathay having a veto in oneworld on Mainland Chinese carriers joining. This has left the growing Chinese market a problem, so AA had to grow LAX into a bigger hub with transpacific flights: launching 77W to HKG, 787 to PVG, etc.

This agreement is one way of Cathay using their leverage against AA. It's got nothing to do with TG, because while AC may codeshare to Thailand via HKG, it's a far cry since AC does not have service to BKK themselves.

We may see Singapore AIrlines forced to play similar cards and have some surprising partners as alliances break down.


Cathay seems to only have a JV with Air New Zealand, but why would AA no want Cathay in its JAL/AA JV ? This seems more of a JAL idea to keep CX out ? Which is out.
 
pictues1981
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:20 am

well now they are code sharing with AC, they are owned by Air China which is a Star Alliance Carrier, they have a JV with Air New Zealand also a Star Alliance Carrier, I see this as a possible alliance switch in the near future.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:28 am

keitherson wrote:
Cathay is also not happy with AA, having been left out with the joint venture with JAL.

Based on what? They CAN'T legally join the j/v, so why would they be mad at AA for that?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
keitherson
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:32 am

MAH4546 wrote:
AA and CX are not allowed in a JBA because of the U.S.-HK air treaty. I assure you that if the air treaty became Open Skies, AA would immediately scramble to have CX join. Any claim that CX is "upset" otherwise is utter nonsense. CX can't be upset at AA because of the law that AA did not create.


I don't know much about these laws, so thanks for the info. Whether CX is "upset" or not at the laws, it's transforming their partnership.

LAX772LR wrote:
keitherson wrote:
Cathay is also not happy with AA, having been left out with the joint venture with JAL.

Based on what? They CAN'T legally join the j/v, so why would they be mad at AA for that?

Do you really have to repeat what a poster literally just pointed out many posts above yours?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:14 am

keitherson wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
keitherson wrote:
Cathay is also not happy with AA, having been left out with the joint venture with JAL.

Based on what? They CAN'T legally join the j/v, so why would they be mad at AA for that?

Do you really have to repeat what a poster literally just pointed out many posts above yours?

Didn't even see it; was too focused on why you'd just make up something like that..... so, figured I'd ask.


pictues1981 wrote:
they are owned by Air China

Air China has a sizable stake, but Cathay is still primarily owned by Swire.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
ha763
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:32 am

jfk777 wrote:
Cathay seems to only have a JV with Air New Zealand, but why would AA no want Cathay in its JAL/AA JV ? This seems more of a JAL idea to keep CX out ? Which is out.


JAL relies extensively on codeshares with Cathay for access to HKG. Out of 21 Japan-HKG flights, JAL only operates 2 flights to HKG using their own aircraft. The rest of the flights are Cathay operated.
 
TurnerJet
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:55 am

According to Yahoo, CX and AC will codeshare to many SE asian cities between HKG and CGK/CEB/MNL/DPS/SUB/BKK and more. If i'm right.
Plane is always everything. Live in the UK. World Traveler and travel to the world and everywhere, looking great everyday and love for Travelling. Very nice to live and work hard everyday (except weekend). :D
 
pictues1981
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:21 am

LAX772LR wrote:
keitherson wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Based on what? They CAN'T legally join the j/v, so why would they be mad at AA for that?

Do you really have to repeat what a poster literally just pointed out many posts above yours?

Didn't even see it; was too focused on why you'd just make up something like that..... so, figured I'd ask.


pictues1981 wrote:
they are owned by Air China

Air China has a sizable stake, but Cathay is still primarily owned by Swire.


Ok however being that they are now more closely aligned with a Star Alliance and yes my mistake only 30 percent owned by Air China, this could prove the catalyst for them to switch alliances, not a guarantee though. Another avenue is they start a Joint Venture with Air Canada considering when they first started the J/V with Air New Zealand it was only a Code share but also called a Strategic Agreement just like this one.

Being in an alliance doesn't stop member carriers from forming alliances with other carriers outside said alliance and this could be just that. Also I think this is a pre-emptive strike on Hong Kong Air's coming flights to Canada
 
9252fly
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:02 pm

Also I think this is a pre-emptive strike on Hong Kong Air's coming flights to Canada


It's quite plausible as well as the previously mentioned competition from the mainland Chinese carriers.
 
Softaero
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:13 pm

Makes a lot of sense, with HX launching flights to YVR next year. Of course CX and AC would like to keep their duopoly. Look at how CX/NZ immediately lowered their fares HKG-AKL right after HX launched service to AKL.
According to all known laws of aviation, there is no way a bee should be able to fly
 
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PMBling
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Fri Dec 23, 2016 4:17 pm

The possibility of redeeming Aeroplan miles for Cathay flights, intrigues me the most. I have always looked towards Alaska Mileage plan for booking J/F on Cathay. This partnership presents great opportunity for Aeroplan to enter the fray but it will be interesting to see if Cathay makes its first class seats available for Aeroplan redemption. If it does, that would be a setback to several Alaska members who will have to complete with a large Aeroplan membership for the limited Cathay First seats.
 
DC1979
Topic Author
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:49 am

If CX will code share on AC flights from YYZ, I wonder if they will be moving to T1, otherwise the connection from CX to AC at YYZ would really suck.
 
wowpeter
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Re: AC & CX codeshare and reciprocal mileage accrual & redemption

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:02 pm

[*]Ok however being that they are now more closely aligned with a Star Alliance and yes my mistake only 30 percent owned by Air China, this could prove the catalyst for them to switch alliances, not a guarantee though. Another avenue is they start a Joint Venture with Air Canada considering when they first started the J/V with Air New Zealand it was only a Code share but also called a Strategic Agreement just like this one.[*]

I donno why people always keep saying Air China own CX or own a sizes me stake in CX... it is a cross shareholdings... i.e.: they both own each other.

Air China own 30% of CX
While CX own 20.1% Air China

Air China has one member on the CX board while CX has one member on Air China board... it is a mutual cross shareholding to allow increase co-operation between the two airlines.

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