303dk
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TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:47 pm

Additional A320 frequencies published today along side the previously announced summer 2017 schedule:

AB7210 TXL0925 – 1355MIA 332 246
AB7212 TXL1520 – 1950MIA 320 57

AB7211 MIA1555 – 0725+1TXL 332 246
AB7213 MIA2150 – 1320+1TXL 320 57


AB7248 TXL1335 – 1615JFK 332 D
AB7454 TXL1850 – 2130JFK 332 x246
AB7454 TXL1850 – 2130JFK 320 246

AB7249 JFK1710 – 0700+1TXL 332 D
AB7455 JFK2330 – 1320+1TXL 332 x246
AB7455 JFK2330 – 1320+1TXL 320 246

They also added TATL frequencies from DUS.
 
by738
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:55 pm

A320's to MIA ??? Thats going to be a long haul in a narrowbody from Europe. Are they even ETOPs
 
Varsity1
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:56 pm

4,900 miles? Where are they stopping for fuel?
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
303dk
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:58 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
4,900 miles? Where are they stopping for fuel?


Even the 3900 mile route doesn't seem right.
 
keitherson
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:02 pm

No wonder the airline is losing millions. They can't even file a route right.
 
globalcabotage
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:05 pm

I think the title should be changed to 330 as that is referenced in the thread.
 
303dk
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:06 pm

globalcabotage wrote:
I think the title should be changed to 330 as that is referenced in the thread.


The 332 service isn't new. That was already on the summer schedule.
 
OMAAbound
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:13 pm

Surely this can't be a non-stop service!?

Currently, and I could be wrong, the longest A320 flight is with GulfAir from Bahrain to Paris or Amsterdam. That's around 2,750nm depending on the routeing.

OMAA
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303dk
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:16 pm

OMAAbound wrote:
Surely this can't be a non-stop service!?

Currently, and I could be wrong, the longest A320 flight is with GulfAir from Bahrain to Paris or Amsterdam. That's around 2,750nm depending on the routeing.

OMAA


Maybe they're flying passengers over 1 at at time?
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:18 pm

Should be obvious this is an error
 
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:19 pm

globalcabotage wrote:
I think the title should be changed to 330 as that is referenced in the thread.


Follow this link (which, I believe, is where the OP got their info), it definitely mentions A320s on those routes and has screenshots of what has actually been filed:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... perations/
 
303dk
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:19 pm

ikolkyo wrote:
Should be obvious this is an error


or they re-configured an A320 to 1F5Y?
 
Varsity1
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:27 pm

They could stop at YYT. Only requires ETOPS 120.
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gardermoen
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:36 pm

Looks like Etihad are on a mission to kill this airline off as quickly as possible. An Airbus 320 on such a long flight? Seriously who in their right mind would ever choose that.
 
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scbriml
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:43 pm

gardermoen wrote:
Looks like Etihad are on a mission to kill this airline off as quickly as possible. An Airbus 320 on such a long flight? Seriously who in their right mind would ever choose that.


Plenty of people if the price was right. How is it any different to many TATL flight in the '70s - DC-8s, 707s, VC-10s?
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by738
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:31 am

scbriml wrote:
gardermoen wrote:
Looks like Etihad are on a mission to kill this airline off as quickly as possible. An Airbus 320 on such a long flight? Seriously who in their right mind would ever choose that.


Plenty of people if the price was right. How is it any different to many TATL flight in the '70s - DC-8s, 707s, VC-10s?

It was different because they had nothing to compare it to when VC10s were about and people didnt realise you could have widebody space, multiple cabins, 10+ toilets, more turbulence stability etc etc
 
zkncj
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:51 am

gardermoen wrote:
An Airbus 320 on such a long flight? Seriously who in their right mind would ever choose that.


PR operates an A320/321 on AKL-MNL an fuel stop in CNS which is around 8500km!
 
jfk777
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:14 am

The only logical explanation is that A320 means A330-200.
 
YIMBY
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:17 am

by738 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
gardermoen wrote:
Looks like Etihad are on a mission to kill this airline off as quickly as possible. An Airbus 320 on such a long flight? Seriously who in their right mind would ever choose that.


Plenty of people if the price was right. How is it any different to many TATL flight in the '70s - DC-8s, 707s, VC-10s?

It was different because they had nothing to compare it to when VC10s were about and people didnt realise you could have widebody space, multiple cabins, 10+ toilets, more turbulence stability etc etc


What widebody space? In my recent intercontinental trip I had most space for me on the regional jet part of the trip. There I had even a window seat which is much more important than any possible flight entertainment system, which is not restricted to widebodies. They could even put lie-flat business seats on the narrowbody if they like, it is just a configuration, though I might never be able to use that.

I would neither care about fuel stops. Indeed I would like it, if it gives me an opportunity to have a walk outside. Usually a flight with fuel stop is shorter and faster than two segment connecting flight, which sometimes even includes backtracking.

Go ahead with narrowbodies, even regional jets, for intercontinental flights, with as many fuel stops as possible. I would take it any day over a non-stop widebody flight, ceteris paribus.
 
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Miami
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:20 am

Seat map shows A320:

Image
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MAH4546
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:00 am

How is this even a discussion still? It's a filing error.
a.
 
B777LRF
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:49 am

Many, many, years ago, the (incompetent) new owner of a charter airline was duped into buying brand new A320s. One selling point was the ability to operate transatlantic, suggesting routes such as CPH-MIA would be possible with a stop in Gander. Well, technically speaking it was possible, but with a few 'limitations'. First of all the tax free, which was a major revenue earner, was too heavy and had to be sailed to Gander for upload. Then there was the passengers bags, which more often than not went via LHR on BA. All this in an early 1990s A320 with 179 seats, which resulted in numerous DVT cases.

It didn't work then, and I seriously doubt it would work now.
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rlwynn
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:55 am

Of course it means A332. Why is this even a question?
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cedarjet
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:46 am

Don't know why I'm even bothering to reply but this thread is why the a.net forums are no good these days. Of course it's just a filing anomaly (not even an error, it's just a placeholder). Yet we have this inane thread with the nonsense that narrow bodies are claustrophobic (yeah because 300 people at one baggage claim carousel or 9 abreast on the Dreamliner is so spacious).
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SpaceshipDC10
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:54 am

Although it's not the first time A320s connect Europe with Florida, since they can't do it non-stop, the scheduled times published underscore the mistake in aircraft type.
 
Cunard
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:17 pm

cedarjet wrote:
Don't know why I'm even bothering to reply but this thread is why the a.net forums are no good these days. Of course it's just a filing anomaly (not even an error, it's just a placeholder). Yet we have this inane thread with the nonsense that narrow bodies are claustrophobic (yeah because 300 people at one baggage claim carousel or 9 abreast on the Dreamliner is so spacious).


a.net forums are no good these days.

I completely agree with you, I've been reading these forums for almost 15 years and within the last year or so the forum has become pathetic with ridiculous posts and even more ridiculous replies even after someone gives a reasonable reply the thread still goes on with others discussing it, either a lot of posters are immature or that they want to always believe in what the individual person has posted.

Let's hope 2017 brings us all to our senses and people think more about what they are posting and the replies given otherwise this site is going to be worthless in the future.
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StrandedAtMKG
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:23 pm

As ridiculous as this thread is, no one has mentioned yet that it's only the eastbound legs that are listed as 320s. Obviously AB isn't going to fly a 332 westbound and just leave it there in favor of a 320.

TL, DR: Typo or intern totally unfamiliar with ac types.
 
rufusmi
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:46 pm

StrandedAtMKG wrote:
As ridiculous as this thread is, no one has mentioned yet that it's only the eastbound legs that are listed as 320s. Obviously AB isn't going to fly a 332 westbound and just leave it there in favor of a 320.

TL, DR: Typo or intern totally unfamiliar with ac types.


The screenshot given above by another poster shows TXL-JFK, a westbound flight. If you look at the schedule posted by the OP, it lists the A320 both ways.

To the person who suggested it might be a placeholder, what would it be a placeholder for? The only wide-body they have is a A332. What else are they going to use?

Yes, it's most likely a filing error.
 
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Spiderguy252
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:28 pm

OMAAbound wrote:
Surely this can't be a non-stop service!?

Currently, and I could be wrong, the longest A320 flight is with GulfAir from Bahrain to Paris or Amsterdam. That's around 2,750nm depending on the routeing.

OMAA


In fact, GF flies BAH-LHR non-stop. Though it has to be said their A320s are very sparsely configured, and are a delight to fly in Y!
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yonahleung
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:21 pm

If it is a placeholder, surely they will block all seats from being selected,no?
 
VSMUT
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:03 pm

B777LRF wrote:
Many, many, years ago, the (incompetent) new owner of a charter airline was duped into buying brand new A320s. One selling point was the ability to operate transatlantic, suggesting routes such as CPH-MIA would be possible with a stop in Gander. Well, technically speaking it was possible, but with a few 'limitations'. First of all the tax free, which was a major revenue earner, was too heavy and had to be sailed to Gander for upload. Then there was the passengers bags, which more often than not went via LHR on BA. All this in an early 1990s A320 with 179 seats, which resulted in numerous DVT cases.

It didn't work then, and I seriously doubt it would work now.


That sounds a lot like Conair, or am I mistaken?
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:39 pm

In October it was reported that AB and AA were ending their codeshareing relationship...
http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... us-partner
American Airlines is canceling a codesharing agreement with its Oneworld partner Air Berlin, industry sources told Aviation Daily.
The decision, which becomes effective at the end of March 2017,


Which could explain the need to essentially 'lean out' to O/D only - becuase without AA, I can see MIA being challenging (considering their position in Europe, and stiff competition from everyone - including with LH aus Deutschland. The A320 will be capable of such a route, if made 'premium' enough to support it - and with AB announcing efforts to become a more 'premium' carrier - perhaps we will see the launch of a new product/layout to match the needs of this flight? To JFK I could see selling the premium, to MIA though - they'll need better luck.
 
Q
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:44 pm

It's on forum title quote "TATL". What does stand for TATL meaning?

Q
 
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Miami
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:12 pm

Q wrote:
It's on forum title quote "TATL". What does stand for TATL meaning?

Q


Trans-Atlantic
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OA940
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:42 pm

Ik this is a mistake, but imagine 180 pax cramped in an a320 for a 10-11 hour flight which it can't perform...
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Cunard
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:17 pm

Q wrote:
It's on forum title quote "TATL". What does stand for TATL meaning?

Q


Are you serious with this question?

After being a member of Airliners.net for 16 years and with 633 posts your actually asking this common used term TATL as in Trans-Atlantic.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:25 pm

Cunard, question for you. You ID says you joined 11 Nov 2016, Did you leave and join again, site error?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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Cunard
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:47 pm

Your answer is NO

I have been an avid reader of these forums for about 15 years but have never joined untill fairly recently as a topic close to my heart was being discussed and I felt compelled to join Airliners.net to post some information.

I have been involved in the travel industry for 34 years so I have a wealth of knowledge and experience if that's what you are doubting, I was also a very keen plane spotter from the age of 10 and aviation has been the forefront of my life ever since!

Is there anything else you want to ask or was there a particular reason for your question!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Viper911
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:11 pm

OA940 wrote:
Ik this is a mistake, but imagine 180 pax cramped in an a320 for a 10-11 hour flight which it can't perform...


Well, Philippine Airlines operate MNL-AKL with an A320 with 1 stopover in Cairns. MNL-AKL and TXL-MIA are basically the same distance.
Obviously if ever Air Berlin will operate TXL-MIA with an A320 it will be with a refuel stopover, possibly in YQX as it is a small distance off track.

Viper911
 
asuflyer
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:12 pm

Filing errors are quite common. At some airlines when filing there is a default aircraft type placeholder such as 737 or 320.

Air Berlin is in the process of adding 3 more A330's to its fleet, so there is no reason that they wouldn't have enough 332 capacity for these flights.

Using narrow bodies other than the 757 across the Atlantic has been done not long in the past, examples being SY's MSP-YQX-STN and Travel Service Poland's WAW-TER-PUJ with 738's.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:20 pm

Cunard wrote:
Your answer is NO

I have been an avid reader of these forums for about 15 years but have never joined untill fairly recently as a topic close to my heart was being discussed and I felt compelled to join Airliners.net to post some information.

I have been involved in the travel industry for 34 years so I have a wealth of knowledge and experience if that's what you are doubting, I was also a very keen plane spotter from the age of 10 and aviation has been the forefront of my life ever since!

Is there anything else you want to ask or was there a particular reason for your question!

You appear to have taken my question the wrong way, never said I doubt you.
Please enjoy the forum, Merry Christmas.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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MAH4546
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:24 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
In October it was reported that AB and AA were ending their codeshareing relationship...
http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... us-partner
American Airlines is canceling a codesharing agreement with its Oneworld partner Air Berlin, industry sources told Aviation Daily.
The decision, which becomes effective at the end of March 2017,


Which could explain the need to essentially 'lean out' to O/D only - becuase without AA, I can see MIA being challenging (considering their position in Europe, and stiff competition from everyone - including with LH aus Deutschland. The A320 will be capable of such a route, if made 'premium' enough to support it - and with AB announcing efforts to become a more 'premium' carrier - perhaps we will see the launch of a new product/layout to match the needs of this flight? To JFK I could see selling the premium, to MIA though - they'll need better luck.


Miami is the second largest U.S.-Europe market after New York and Airberlin/LTU have been flying to Miami long before the AA codeshare. It won't be a challenge. Miami is the second largest long haul market from both DUS and BER, there is probably very little AA feed on the flights in the first place.
a.
 
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Rajahdhani
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:46 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
In October it was reported that AB and AA were ending their codeshareing relationship...
http://aviationweek.com/awincommercial/ ... us-partner
American Airlines is canceling a codesharing agreement with its Oneworld partner Air Berlin, industry sources told Aviation Daily.
The decision, which becomes effective at the end of March 2017,


Which could explain the need to essentially 'lean out' to O/D only - becuase without AA, I can see MIA being challenging (considering their position in Europe, and stiff competition from everyone - including with LH aus Deutschland. The A320 will be capable of such a route, if made 'premium' enough to support it - and with AB announcing efforts to become a more 'premium' carrier - perhaps we will see the launch of a new product/layout to match the needs of this flight? To JFK I could see selling the premium, to MIA though - they'll need better luck.


Miami is the second largest U.S.-Europe market after New York and Airberlin/LTU have been flying to Miami long before the AA codeshare. It won't be a challenge. Miami is the second largest long haul market from both DUS and BER, there is probably very little AA feed on the flights in the first place.


...so the AA codeshare was inconcesuqntial/un-necessary? As I stated earlier, I can see how, without AA - the feed would be less (and thus, the need for a smaller aircraft). Reading the post further and I matched it with a 'premium' product idea, where the A320 would be light enough to make the distance non-stop. Again, I am not saying that AB is incapable of keeping a place in the market, but without help - that becomes much more difficult (and hence a cut in capacity, or cautious expansion).
 
Cunard
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 4:25 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
Cunard wrote:
Your answer is NO

I have been an avid reader of these forums for about 15 years but have never joined untill fairly recently as a topic close to my heart was being discussed and I felt compelled to join Airliners.net to post some information.

I have been involved in the travel industry for 34 years so I have a wealth of knowledge and experience if that's what you are doubting, I was also a very keen plane spotter from the age of 10 and aviation has been the forefront of my life ever since!

Is there anything else you want to ask or was there a particular reason for your question!

You appear to have taken my question the wrong way, never said I doubt you.
Please enjoy the forum, Merry Christmas.


No I knew exactly what you meant, you took my reply in the wrong way, I was referring to the particular poster that 'he had been a member of A.NET for 16 years and with 633 posts and he was asking what 'TATL' stood for which I found a strange question for someone who obviously has an interest in aviation and who has been a member of A.NET for 16 years and had to ask the question what TATL stood for.

And thank you for the 'Please enjoy the forum' but I've been enjoying the forum for 15 years but within the last year or so it's gone down hill in a big way and I always said I would never join A.NET because of that just like I am not on Facebook, Twitter, etc but now I find myself being a member of A.Net for how long I don't know.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
DFW789ER
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:10 pm

DeltaB717 wrote:
globalcabotage wrote:
I think the title should be changed to 330 as that is referenced in the thread.


Follow this link (which, I believe, is where the OP got their info), it definitely mentions A320s on those routes and has screenshots of what has actually been filed:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... perations/


routesonline has been known to make mistakes, I expect this one of them. No way those flights are going on a 320.
 
DFW789ER
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:12 pm

scbriml wrote:
gardermoen wrote:
Looks like Etihad are on a mission to kill this airline off as quickly as possible. An Airbus 320 on such a long flight? Seriously who in their right mind would ever choose that.


Plenty of people if the price was right. How is it any different to many TATL flight in the '70s - DC-8s, 707s, VC-10s?


The aircraft you mention were built for long haul. An a 320 isn't, at least not this long.
 
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gatibosgru
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:15 pm

Cunard wrote:
Q wrote:
It's on forum title quote "TATL". What does stand for TATL meaning?

Q


Are you serious with this question?

After being a member of Airliners.net for 16 years and with 633 posts your actually asking this common used term TATL as in Trans-Atlantic.


What an arrogant reply.
@DadCelo
 
rufusmi
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:22 pm

DFW789ER wrote:
DeltaB717 wrote:
globalcabotage wrote:
I think the title should be changed to 330 as that is referenced in the thread.


Follow this link (which, I believe, is where the OP got their info), it definitely mentions A320s on those routes and has screenshots of what has actually been filed:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... perations/


routesonline has been known to make mistakes, I expect this one of them. No way those flights are going on a 320.


I'm pretty sure it's an airberlin error, as the flights are shown to be bookable as an A320 through multiple channels.
 
MAH4546
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:53 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Rajahdhani wrote:
In October it was reported that AB and AA were ending their codeshareing relationship...


Which could explain the need to essentially 'lean out' to O/D only - becuase without AA, I can see MIA being challenging (considering their position in Europe, and stiff competition from everyone - including with LH aus Deutschland. The A320 will be capable of such a route, if made 'premium' enough to support it - and with AB announcing efforts to become a more 'premium' carrier - perhaps we will see the launch of a new product/layout to match the needs of this flight? To JFK I could see selling the premium, to MIA though - they'll need better luck.


Miami is the second largest U.S.-Europe market after New York and Airberlin/LTU have been flying to Miami long before the AA codeshare. It won't be a challenge. Miami is the second largest long haul market from both DUS and BER, there is probably very little AA feed on the flights in the first place.


...so the AA codeshare was inconcesuqntial/un-necessary? As I stated earlier, I can see how, without AA - the feed would be less (and thus, the need for a smaller aircraft). Reading the post further and I matched it with a 'premium' product idea, where the A320 would be light enough to make the distance non-stop. Again, I am not saying that AB is incapable of keeping a place in the market, but without help - that becomes much more difficult (and hence a cut in capacity, or cautious expansion).

I'm sure the AA feed is some help, but yes, it is largely unnecessary. Just like Lufthansa Group doesn't need AA feed to fill flights to MUC, FRA, VIE and double daily to ZRH. MIADUS is nearly triple the local market size of BOSDUS or MCODUS, and both those will do fine as well without AA feed.
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Rajahdhani
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Re: TATL A320 Service from airberlin

Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:32 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
I'm sure the AA feed is some help, but yes, it is largely unnecessary. Just like Lufthansa Group doesn't need AA feed to fill flights to MUC, FRA, VIE and double daily to ZRH. MIADUS is nearly triple the local market size of BOSDUS or MCODUS, and both those will do fine as well without AA feed.


Then why not open the route with an A330? You're dancing around the shared point. They wish to perform the service, but with no partner (as was before) the route now provides more risk. They thus are choosing to expand, but with a solution that provides the least risk - the A320 as opposed to the A330. As I said, before - if they wish to become a 'premium carrier', and place such a product/configuration to the A320 - it could make the route work (from a performance perspective). That said, I hope that it was a filing error - and indeed there is enough of a market (and enough of said market capture by AB) that they will use an A330.

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