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atcsundevil
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Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:30 pm

Carrie Fisher is in critical condition after suffering a heart attack on UA935 from Heathrow to LAX. Details are still scarce, but she was reported as "not breathing" by those on board.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html
 
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787fan8
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:42 pm

May the force be with her and her family.
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:52 pm

She admitted to wrecking her body in her youth, it was only a matter of time. I hope she pulls through and takes it easy flying all over for work. Take your money and relax and enjoy it.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:57 pm

Luckily for her, there was an EMT onboard who was able to use what eqp they had, to work on her until ground medical agents could arrive.

She's currently on a ventilator, it's unfortunately all over local news.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lavalampluva
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:02 am

I saw her recently on Graham Norton. She didn't look good. Hoping for the best for her.
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:28 am

EDIT
Brother tells AP she is now in STABLE condition.
Last edited by enilria on Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
toneale
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:31 am

Has anyone been able to find the ATC recording?
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:44 am

It's not the first time she has nearly died on the DeathStar
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:56 am

On liveatc, try the LAX Final Approach on 12/23 at 2000-2300Z, and listen starting at 13:24 in for pilot's description of emergency. It's United 935.

And LA Tower South, same archive time, Starting 15:22. Not much, just need minimum delay on the ground. Identifies itself as a medical aircraft. At 19:25, gives them the first high speed off and then gives them to ground.

On the same date and time archive for LA Ground, At 20:25 gives them directions to the ramp and says company is waiting for them.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:19 am, edited 3 times in total.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:58 am

toneale wrote:
Has anyone been able to find the ATC recording?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mirror.c ... id-verizon

LAX772LR wrote:
Luckily for her, there was an EMT onboard who was able to use what eqp they had, to work on her until ground medical agents could arrive.

She's currently on a ventilator, it's unfortunately all over local news.

As a paramedic (well, former, but I still have my cert), I can tell you that there's only so much you can do for a code in that type of uncontrolled out of hospital situation. I worked a few of codes with just myself and my partner, and they were never easy to manage. Regardless, even with multiple tools at your disposal, nothing ever seemed to substitute for good, high quality CPR. I'm of the opinion that everyone should learn it (or at least compressions only CCR) and AED operation, because the best outcomes always came from fast CPR and defibrillation. In one of my codes, having a qualified police officer step in to handle compressions gave us a break and freed us up to perform other interventions. Anyone can do CCR with the proper training.

Good work to the medical folks on board for coping with what I'm sure was a seriously stressful situation. Codes are stressful even for the most seasoned EMS professional, and the added stress of being in an unfamiliar environment and being a noteworthy individual makes things very hectic.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:06 am

atcsundevil wrote:

Good work to the medical folks on board for coping with what I'm sure was a seriously stressful situation. Codes are stressful even for the most seasoned EMS professional, and the added stress of being in an unfamiliar environment and being a noteworthy individual makes things very hectic.



Perhaps a mention to the crew too? The ones who would have actually initiated the medical action plan, administered initial first aid, probably provided the compressions and indeed operated the Defibs as I'm sure it's the same in the US as it is here in Europe that only those trained on the exact equipment provided for defibrillation to that airline may operate the devices. I'm sure it was incredibly stressful for them too.
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:12 am

tonystan wrote:
Perhaps a mention to the crew too? The ones who would have actually initiated the medical action plan, administered initial first aid, probably provided the compressions and indeed operated the Defibs as I'm sure it's the same in the US as it is here in Europe that only those trained on the exact equipment provided for defibrillation to that airline may operate the devices. I'm sure it was incredibly stressful for them too.

I wasn't trying to sell anybody short. My statement was medical related, so that's why my comment was geared more towards them. Next time I'll be sure to give kudos to the crew, ATC, the rampers, the cleaners, and anyone else I can think of, just so I don't forget anybody...

I don't know why a trained medical professional wouldn't be allowed to operate the AED. Regardless of the piece of equipment, I can pretty much guarantee that I'm better versed in its operation than an FA. Besides, they aren't exactly rocket science.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:21 am

So is she still alive then? I think that many people used to die if they have heart attack or this condition?
The best plane I've flown is an A380. They were the biggest and the best than other plane I've been on. :lol:
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:44 am

TurnerJet wrote:
So is she still alive then? I think that many people used to die if they have heart attack or this condition?

She's still alive. She's in the Intensive Care Unit. Survival rates for cardiac arrest have gone up dramatically in recent years with the increasing prevalence of AEDs (Automated External Defibrillators) in public places.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:59 am

how do they handle border control in these circumstances?
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:01 am

DaufuskieGuy wrote:
how do they handle border control in these circumstances?


CBP meets the flight at gate to process the passenger and any companions that depart with paramedics.

Same process occurs if law enforcement is called to attend to passenger on inbound international flight.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:06 am

TMZ says EMTs worked for 15 minutes to get a pulse on arrival. If true, that is pretty bad news.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:58 am

It used to be that if they couldn't get the person's heart to beat on its own after a good bit less than 30 minutes, they would pronounce out the concern that irreversible brain damage would occur. Now, studies have shown that 30 shouldn't be the cutoff.

A well-known-MD friend worked with paramedic on his 90-plus-year-old father in his father's apartment for, I think, something like 50 minutes, they got a pulse, and the guy was fine, Lived to 99 wiith absolutely all his faculties -- sharp as a tack virtually to the end. Gave a rousing extemporaneous speech at an event that almost no 30-year-olds could do. So there's the study and there's my single data point.

That said, if you're in cardiac arrest on an aircraft, the survival rate isn't good. If drugs are involved, even worse.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:41 am

enilria wrote:
TMZ says EMTs worked for 15 minutes to get a pulse on arrival. If true, that is pretty bad news.


Doesn't sound good. A question that will be asked of the cabin crew is was she in distress before the miocardial infraction and should they have landed sooner, I see reports that she was.
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:06 am

wjcandee wrote:
It used to be that if they couldn't get the person's heart to beat on its own after a good bit less than 30 minutes, they would pronounce out the concern that irreversible brain damage would occur. Now, studies have shown that 30 shouldn't be the cutoff.

A well-known-MD friend worked with paramedic on his 90-plus-year-old father in his father's apartment for, I think, something like 50 minutes, they got a pulse, and the guy was fine, Lived to 99 wiith absolutely all his faculties -- sharp as a tack virtually to the end. Gave a rousing extemporaneous speech at an event that almost no 30-year-olds could do. So there's the study and there's my single data point.

That said, if you're in cardiac arrest on an aircraft, the survival rate isn't good. If drugs are involved, even worse.

CPR is very physical activity, mind you. Doing that for even 5 minutes will be hard.
BTW "wjcandee" do you have the paper available? I'd be like to read that.
And yes, I believe everyone should be trained in CPR and AED. Basically AED operation is not rocket science, but it is important skill to have. Fortunately she's alive.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:57 am

atcsundevil wrote:
TurnerJet wrote:
So is she still alive then? I think that many people used to die if they have heart attack or this condition?

She's still alive. She's in the Intensive Care Unit. Survival rates for cardiac arrest have gone up dramatically in recent years with the increasing prevalence of AEDs (Automated External Defibrillators) in public places.


What about induced hypothermia for the management of post-arrest patients?
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:18 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Good work to the medical folks on board for coping with what I'm sure was a seriously stressful situation. Codes are stressful even for the most seasoned EMS professional, and the added stress of being in an unfamiliar environment and being a noteworthy individual makes things very hectic.


Anybody with a driving license here should be able to do the "no tools" version of CPR.
( i.e. heart massage combined with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. )
It is part of the first aid training required as prerequisite.

( obviously without retraining on a regular basis something gets lost over time... )
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:24 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Survival rates for cardiac arrest have gone up dramatically in recent years with the increasing prevalence of AEDs (Automated External Defibrillators) in public places.


What kind of AED availability is required to actually have an impact on survival rates?

( I've seen some placed "here and there" in my region.
But "storage place hinting" appears to be lacking. )
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:51 am

Yesterday, I finished my first mandatory oil field first aid course, which has a heavy concentration around CPR and use of an AED.

Our instructor told us that there is something like an 80% better chance of survival with CPR and an AED, than with CPR alone.

Those devices are amazing. Basically, anybody can use them. If somebody is having a heart attack, and there is an AED around, slap that thing on the victim and follow the voice prompts. There are diagrams on the pads showing where to place them, and most units even come with scissors useful for cutting away clothing and razors to shave especially hirsute individuals.

All you have to do is turn the machine on, slap on the pads and do what the machine tells you to do. If the first shock doesn't work, it will instruct you to continue CPR, have you pause occasionally to analyze for a shockable rhythm and maybe shock again.

Good job to all of those who contributed and best of luck to Carrie.
What the...?
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:12 am

TurnerJet wrote:
So is she still alive then? I think that many people used to die if they have heart attack or this condition?


Well it looks like there were people on board that knew what they were doing, so this wasn't a Michael Jackson situation with resuscitation attempts on a bed or any similar dilettantism.
Meanwhile, it sounds like she was without oxygen for a long time, so we shouldn't be surprised to hear of massive brain damage.

I am afraid they'll either have to rewrite the script on Episode 9 or find a way to animate her face onto someone else like they did in Rogue One.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:41 am

enilria wrote:
TMZ says EMTs worked for 15 minutes to get a pulse on arrival. If true, that is pretty bad news.

Not necessarily. 15 minutes of technically being dead isn't exactly good for you, but if they get ROSC (Return of Spontaneous Circulation) after 15 minutes, the patient has a decent chance. Their overall health prior to the arrest and quick implementation of CPR/AED plays a bigger impact than being down for that amount of time, at least in my experience.

wjcandee wrote:
It used to be that if they couldn't get the person's heart to beat on its own after a good bit less than 30 minutes, they would pronounce out the concern that irreversible brain damage would occur. Now, studies have shown that 30 shouldn't be the cutoff.

Absolutely right. Especially if post cardiac arrest induced hypothermia protocols can be implemented, which is still somewhat experimental, but is a good example of continuing resuscitative efforts until all measures have been expended. Cold therapy is kind of a longshot, but sometimes it's worth trying. The longest codes I've worked were 88 minutes and 107 minutes from start to finish. In both cases, hypothermia protocols were implemented. Neither of them made it, because at that point the prognosis isn't great, but it's always worth trying.

benbeny wrote:
CPR is very physical activity, mind you. Doing that for even 5 minutes will be hard.

My department required everyone to complete five minutes of uninterrupted compressions without sacrificing depth, rate, or quality. Five minutes isn't fun, but it's definitely doable. More than 8-10 minutes, and your quality starts really sucking. But yeah, after a lengthy code, you definitely feel like you've fulfilled your gym requirements for the week!

wgw2707 wrote:
What about induced hypothermia for the management of post-arrest patients?

I mention this above responding to wjcandee. I've only seen it implemented after lengthier periods of arrest, so, maybe not applicable here. There's been a lot of good research on it, but there's still a lot to learn. I worked EMS in Phoenix, and many hospitals in the valley were test studies on induced hypothermia and improvement of prehospital care in traumatic brain injuries (turns out we were screwing up on that hardcore for a lot of years!), but there's a lot of crossover research between the two.

When hypothermic treatments were used in my patients, I don't recall there ever being a good outcome, but only because it was always the last resort. Out of hospital asystole ("flat line") has something like a 3% recovery rate, so the odds were stacked against us from the start. My experiences were purely anecdotal and don't reflect the positive research into these treatments.

If Ms. Fisher was only down for about 15 minutes, I'm not sure they'd bother implementing induced hypothermia, because the risk might outweigh the benefit. She was also defibrillated, which means she had a shockable rhythm (most rhythms, like asystole, are not shockable). That's generally excellent news.

WIederling wrote:
What kind of AED availability is required to actually have an impact on survival rates?

Quick access is everything, which is why having them on planes and in airports or other public places full of stressed out people is so important. CPR and AED within the first minute following arrest has a roughly 70% survival rate, but that drops to about 40% after five minutes, and 10% after ten minutes. These days, better than one in three witnessed arrests have positive outcomes, in large part because of the prevalence of AEDs in public places.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:07 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Meanwhile, it sounds like she was without oxygen for a long time, so we shouldn't be surprised to hear of massive brain damage.

I am afraid they'll either have to rewrite the script on Episode 9 or find a way to animate her face onto someone else like they did in Rogue One.

Are you for real? People here are discussing real world matters on her unfortunate condition and there you are trying to be too smart, butting ahead of events (and I'm being kind with words here). If you have nothing good or relevant to say, don't say anything on a serious thread. She'll recognize any foul stench.

Let's hope she will pull through it well.
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:37 pm

wjcandee wrote:
It used to be that if they couldn't get the person's heart to beat on its own after a good bit less than 30 minutes, they would pronounce out the concern that irreversible brain damage would occur. Now, studies have shown that 30 shouldn't be the cutoff.

A well-known-MD friend worked with paramedic on his 90-plus-year-old father in his father's apartment for, I think, something like 50 minutes, they got a pulse, and the guy was fine, Lived to 99 wiith absolutely all his faculties -- sharp as a tack virtually to the end. Gave a rousing extemporaneous speech at an event that almost no 30-year-olds could do. So there's the study and there's my single data point.

That said, if you're in cardiac arrest on an aircraft, the survival rate isn't good. If drugs are involved, even worse.


Hell, sometimes they do heart massage for 90 minutes.

I don't respect all these people blabbing their mouth about this woman's medical condition.
We fly JETS, we don't fly donkeys.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:05 pm

I've spent two holidays from before Christmas into the new year in the trans ICU wondering if a loved one would live or have brain damage, so my heart goes out to her family.

May the force be with her.

atcsundevil wrote:
toneale wrote:
Has anyone been able to find the ATC recording?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.mirror.c ... id-verizon

LAX772LR wrote:
Luckily for her, there was an EMT onboard who was able to use what eqp they had, to work on her until ground medical agents could arrive.

She's currently on a ventilator, it's unfortunately all over local news.

As a paramedic (well, former, but I still have my cert), I can tell you that there's only so much you can do for a code in that type of uncontrolled out of hospital situation. I worked a few of codes with just myself and my partner, and they were never easy to manage. Regardless, even with multiple tools at your disposal, nothing ever seemed to substitute for good, high quality CPR. I'm of the opinion that everyone should learn it (or at least compressions only CCR) and AED operation, because the best outcomes always came from fast CPR and defibrillation. In one of my codes, having a qualified police officer step in to handle compressions gave us a break and freed us up to perform other interventions. Anyone can do CCR with the proper training.

Good work to the medical folks on board for coping with what I'm sure was a seriously stressful situation. Codes are stressful even for the most seasoned EMS professional, and the added stress of being in an unfamiliar environment and being a noteworthy individual makes things very hectic.

Shout out to medical professionals who step in. The crew too.

I taught 'old school' CPR, so I realize it isn't the latest and thus learned how to use the machines. But if this 'old dog's had to do CPR I would. It is physical to say the least.

No disrespect to crew. But those who do this as a job have it tough. This was the normal pressure and a beloved celebrity.


I hope Carrie Fisher pulls through.

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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:51 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I hope Carrie Fisher pulls through.
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:04 pm

I've just seen the original saga in the past days, and I feel the magic of these films. All the best to Carrie Fisher, and I hope she recovers well.

I'm a member of a first-aid organization, and every 3-4 months we exercise CPR and AED. We are required to do CPR+AED as a single person for at least five minutes, and together with a second person for 15 minutes. When I visit a building frequently, I memorize the location of the AED devices. I also encourage people to join courses in first aid. Please, take a course.

Sooner or later, you'll make that crucial difference for another person.

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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:49 pm

WIederling wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
Good work to the medical folks on board for coping with what I'm sure was a seriously stressful situation. Codes are stressful even for the most seasoned EMS professional, and the added stress of being in an unfamiliar environment and being a noteworthy individual makes things very hectic.


Anybody with a driving license here should be able to do the "no tools" version of CPR.
( i.e. heart massage combined with mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. )
It is part of the first aid training required as prerequisite.

( obviously without retraining on a regular basis something gets lost over time... )


It has been 20 years since I learned just the basics for a course to be a summer camp counsellor and do not remember a lot of it. But from what I understand CPR is a very violent procedure that involves breaking ribs because of the pressure you are pushing down to get the heart to start pumping. That is a dangerous thing to do and having everyone think they know what to do could be a bad thing, isn't that right? I am no expert please someone correct me if I am wrong as we have a lot of medical experts here.
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:33 pm

lightsaber wrote:
I taught 'old school' CPR, so I realize it isn't the latest and thus learned how to use the machines. But if this 'old dog's had to do CPR I would. It is physical to say the least.

The only thing that ever really changed is the ratio of compressions to breathing. A lot of places are pushing compressions only (CCR), because pausing compressions for breaths has proven to be detrimental. The sheer fact that you know the mechanics and you'd be willing to step in is what counts.

b747400erf wrote:
It has been 20 years since I learned just the basics for a course to be a summer camp counsellor and do not remember a lot of it. But from what I understand CPR is a very violent procedure that involves breaking ribs because of the pressure you are pushing down to get the heart to start pumping. That is a dangerous thing to do and having everyone think they know what to do could be a bad thing, isn't that right? I am no expert please someone correct me if I am wrong as we have a lot of medical experts here.

It is a very violent thing. The depth is roughly 1/3 of the chest to ensure good compressions. Ribs almost always separate (sometimes break), and if you go long enough, the compressions actually get pretty easy because all of the structure in the sternum becomes disconnected. That can definitely cause other problems though, like puncturing organs.

Generally when I've seen lay people start compressions, they just aren't using enough force. It isn't hurting anything, but it's not really helping either. It's only dangerous if someone tries to do compressions too high or too low on the chest. As long as you're in between the nipples, you're good to go. In the end though, they aren't going to get more dead.

Now...people starting CPR on someone who doesn't need it, I've seen that too. If the victim is telling you to stop, they probably don't need CPR! LOL!
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:15 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Now...people starting CPR on someone who doesn't need it, I've seen that too. If the victim is telling you to stop, they probably don't need CPR! LOL!


If you start to hear protest and sounds of hurt you have achieved your objective.
Cudos to you!
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JoeCanuck
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:16 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
I taught 'old school' CPR, so I realize it isn't the latest and thus learned how to use the machines. But if this 'old dog's had to do CPR I would. It is physical to say the least.

The only thing that ever really changed is the ratio of compressions to breathing. A lot of places are pushing compressions only (CCR), because pausing compressions for breaths has proven to be detrimental. The sheer fact that you know the mechanics and you'd be willing to step in is what counts.

b747400erf wrote:
It has been 20 years since I learned just the basics for a course to be a summer camp counsellor and do not remember a lot of it. But from what I understand CPR is a very violent procedure that involves breaking ribs because of the pressure you are pushing down to get the heart to start pumping. That is a dangerous thing to do and having everyone think they know what to do could be a bad thing, isn't that right? I am no expert please someone correct me if I am wrong as we have a lot of medical experts here.

It is a very violent thing. The depth is roughly 1/3 of the chest to ensure good compressions. Ribs almost always separate (sometimes break), and if you go long enough, the compressions actually get pretty easy because all of the structure in the sternum becomes disconnected. That can definitely cause other problems though, like puncturing organs.

Generally when I've seen lay people start compressions, they just aren't using enough force. It isn't hurting anything, but it's not really helping either. It's only dangerous if someone tries to do compressions too high or too low on the chest. As long as you're in between the nipples, you're good to go. In the end though, they aren't going to get more dead.

Now...people starting CPR on someone who doesn't need it, I've seen that too. If the victim is telling you to stop, they probably don't need CPR! LOL!


That's a really good point to make. CPR is only required when there is no heartbeat....in other words, the person is already technically dead. Their ONLY chance, is if CPR is applied, and it does no good at all if not enough force is used. At this point, it's a 'life or limbs' type situation.

My instructor covered the idea of breaking ribs and said that almost always, you'll hear something that sounds like ribs breaking, but it's usually connective tissue popping...like cracking knuckles. After a few compressions, the sound goes away...again, like cracking knuckles.

First aid courses are required every 3 years in the oil patch in Canada, and this is the first year use of an AED has been included. I was very surprised at how easy they are to use. They, literally, tell you what to do and they have saved a lot of lives.
What the...?
 
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:40 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Now...people starting CPR on someone who doesn't need it, I've seen that too. If the victim is telling you to stop, they probably don't need CPR! LOL!


I had to control myself real fast not to LOL for real as the kids are asleep in the adjacent rooms :) An instructor from years back when I was training for airport rescue services actually used more or less the same wording, so I'm sure it happens from time to time.

I'm decently trained in CPR, but when this August for the first time I faced a real situation, I made two observations. At first I noticed how many people were standing around doing nothing, and then, I found myself very hesitant to start doing mouth-to-mouth on a stranger with drool and blood in the face. It's easy to be "brave" when there's a newly cleaned doll on the floor... The "patient" was a 65+ woman with some kind of cramping seizure, could be an epileptic. I made sure the staff (at Stansted airport coach terminal) has alerted the paramedics and tried to assess the situation, but even as she was tuning blue, I found it hard to actually start doing mouth-to-mouth. As I saw the blue tone becoming more and more dominant, I started asking around for a breathing mask or similar, but at that point a doctor and nurse showed up, both off duty, and they helped her. I later saw her live and well on the stretcher on the way to the ambulance. Very soon thereafter I bought two breathing sheets and I tend to keep one very nearby at all times. I have also noticed that there is a simple breathing mask in most first aid kits, I just never knew. Example:

http://alexnld.com/product/cpr-resuscit ... way-valve/

I'll pick up on Davids advise and book myself a refresher CPR course.

/Fredrik

...and of course: do get well princess Leia!
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:45 am

JoeCanuck wrote:

That's a really good point to make. CPR is only required when there is no heartbeat....in other words, the person is already technically dead. Their ONLY chance, is if CPR is applied, and it does no good at all if not enough force is used. At this point, it's a 'life or limbs' type situation.



My question is what happens with an unresponsive patient when you are landing, presumably you cannot continue CPR when you are strapped in, how long would the period you could not administer CPR be and wouldnt it be long enough on a non breating non heartbeat person to induce brain death.
BV
 
LittleFokker
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:01 am

Logistics question: what does Border Patrol do about a passenger who arrives on an international flight but requires immediate transport to a medical facility upon landing? Do customs agents visit the hospital to clear entry into the country, or does a hospital keep an agent on site for situations like this and on other modes of international transport (i.e. cruise ships)? Or is there not a follow up, leaving an immigration loophole that could be exploited by a fake injury or illness?
"All human activities are doomed to failure." - Jean Paul Sartre
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 7:32 am

LittleFokker wrote:
Logistics question: what does Border Patrol do about a passenger who arrives on an international flight but requires immediate transport to a medical facility upon landing? Do customs agents visit the hospital to clear entry into the country, or does a hospital keep an agent on site for situations like this and on other modes of international transport (i.e. cruise ships)? Or is there not a follow up, leaving an immigration loophole that could be exploited by a fake injury or illness?


They are met and cleared at the gate along with anybody who will be accompanying.
BV
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:23 am

[quote="b747400erf"
It has been 20 years since I learned just the basics for a course to be a summer camp counsellor and do not remember a lot of it. But from what I understand CPR is a very violent procedure that involves breaking ribs because of the pressure you are pushing down to get the heart to start pumping. That is a dangerous thing to do and having everyone think they know what to do could be a bad thing, isn't that right? I am no expert please someone correct me if I am wrong as we have a lot of medical experts here.[/quote]

After CPR, the patient's chest will NOT look pretty. But if you deliver a beautiful corpse to the hospital, the doctors won't be grateful... better bring somebody with a ugly chest, ribs broken, but with a chance to survive. A patient under CPR is unconscious anyway, so no pain will be felt.

When you do compressions, apply force on the sternum, not the ribs. Google for pictures, and you'll understand what I mean ("CPR compression technique"). That you have to bare the patient's chest - female or male does not matter - comes without saying.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 8:57 am

BoeingVista wrote:
My question is what happens with an unresponsive patient when you are landing, presumably you cannot continue CPR when you are strapped in, how long would the period you could not administer CPR be and wouldnt it be long enough on a non breating non heartbeat person to induce brain death.


Continue CPR, I would say. Don't care a fungus about safety!

EMTs who trained us said that each minute of pause robs the patient 10% of his survival chance. I thought about such a situation when landing, and I would volunteer not to be strapped in to carry out continuous CPR.

FredrikHAD wrote:
At first I noticed how many people were standing around doing nothing


This is always a problem. If you're not delivering CPR yourself but assisting those, ask the nearest people "Are you related to the patient?", "Can you do CPR?", "Are you a doctor?" or something else. Strike fear into their hearts :veryhappy: by making them responsible, giving them responsibility. Grab one by the arm and lead him to the patient: "Hold your mobile phone ready, we might need you!"

Everyone in the vicinity should have a job. Either assisting in CPR, serving as communication relays (with their mobile phones), swarming out to get AED devices, swarming out to lead the ambulances to the patient... but doing this takes lots of experience. Either you help the patient, or you manage the resources.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
b747400erf
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 9:25 am

flyingturtle wrote:

After CPR, the patient's chest will NOT look pretty. But if you deliver a beautiful corpse to the hospital, the doctors won't be grateful... better bring somebody with a ugly chest, ribs broken, but with a chance to survive. A patient under CPR is unconscious anyway, so no pain will be felt.

When you do compressions, apply force on the sternum, not the ribs. Google for pictures, and you'll understand what I mean ("CPR compression technique"). That you have to bare the patient's chest - female or male does not matter - comes without saying.


David


My point is that it is a serious and messy procedure and it was in response to someone thinking everyone should have this training to be able to do it when necessary.
 
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BoeingVista
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:44 am

flyingturtle wrote:

Continue CPR, I would say. Don't care a fungus about safety!



I asked because the ATC message released specifically said that "they would have passenger seated in 2 minutes and hopefully on the deck in 5" those timings give us 3-5 minutes of time when the non breathing patient is litteral dead with nobody working on her.
BV
 
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FredrikHAD
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 12:08 pm

dstc47_ "Further sad news about an in-flight cardiac incident, sadly the child died."

"The [10 year old] child was travelling on board Air Canada flight AC-868 from Toronto in Canada to London Heathrow at the time." This happened on Christmas Eve at Shannon. Very, very sad story.

No more news about Carries condition?

/Fredrik
 
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neutrino
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:07 pm

FredrikHAD wrote:
No more news about Carries condition?
/Fredrik


Out of Emergency and in ICU but no furthers news other than she is stable.
Daughter, Billie Lourd, 24, at the hospital along with Carrie's beloved French bulldog Gary.

Some well wishes from fellow celebrities:-
Harrison Ford: I'm shocked and saddened to hear the news about my dear friend. Our thoughts are with Carrie, her family and friends
Mark Hamill: as if 2016 couldn't get any worse... sending all our love to @carrieffisher
Peter Mayhew: Thoughts and prayers for our friend and everyone's favorite princess right now.. @carrieffisher
Anthony Daniels: At last I know what I want for Christmas. The galaxy's beloved Princess, fully functional once more. And soon.
WilliamShatner: I ask everyone to stop for a moment and send special thoughts to @carrieffisher.
Gwendoline Christie: The whole world is sending you so much love! Sending you the universe's most powerful Force..
KevinSmith: I don't pray much anymore but I am praying for you right now, @carrieffisher. Please pull through...
Rob Delaney: @carrieffisher I'm assuming you're able to see my tweets, even in the ICU. Quit f**king around & get better. I love you.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
smokeybandit
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:58 pm

Fisher died today.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:04 pm

you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
Sooner787
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:08 pm

Saw Rogue One yesterday and the Leia cameo at the end of the movie
is even more poignant now.

Prayers to all her family, friends and many fans :(
 
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enilria
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:11 pm

She was unconscious for too long it seemed when I first heard this. So sad.
 
Armodeen
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Re: Carrie Fisher suffers cardiac arrest on LHR-LAX

Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:29 pm

Very sorry to hear of her demise. Kudos to the bystanders and professionals who managed to get an output again and give her a chance, but sadly getting the heart beating again is only part of the story (the easy part!).

RIP.

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