trent1000
Topic Author
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CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:48 am

Following the heaviest snow in half a century, Sapporo's Chitose Airport (CTS) has this week experienced days of delays and hundreds of cancelled flights.
Why is it that Chinese passengers behave the way shown in the video? I wonder if their government allows them to travel again if they cause so much trouble.
http://news.asiaone.com/news/asia/thous ... heavy-snow

Tuesday's SQ661 CTS/SIN departed (and subsequently arrived) one hour late.
 
tonystan
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:19 pm

I hate to make general sweeping statements but in the 15 years or so that iv been travelling to and from China with work Iv discovered in the last 10 years or so the folk from that country have become increasingly aggressive and find it very difficult to cope with any sort of "change" or upset. Be it a delay or even something as small as refusal of first meal choice onboard. It's actually frightening.

There was a time those flights where very relaxed.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1810
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:51 pm

tonystan wrote:
I hate to make general sweeping statements but in the 15 years or so that iv been travelling to and from China with work Iv discovered in the last 10 years or so the folk from that country have become increasingly aggressive and find it very difficult to cope with any sort of "change" or upset. Be it a delay or even something as small as refusal of first meal choice onboard. It's actually frightening.

There was a time those flights where very relaxed.



The single children are all grown up now and in charge!
 
nitepilot79
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:19 pm

Looks like one of our malls.
 
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piedmontf284000
Posts: 412
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:30 pm

nitepilot79 wrote:
Looks like one of our malls.


Nicely done!!
 
yonahleung
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:57 pm

RJNUT wrote:
tonystan wrote:
I hate to make general sweeping statements but in the 15 years or so that iv been travelling to and from China with work Iv discovered in the last 10 years or so the folk from that country have become increasingly aggressive and find it very difficult to cope with any sort of "change" or upset. Be it a delay or even something as small as refusal of first meal choice onboard. It's actually frightening.

There was a time those flights where very relaxed.



The single children are all grown up now and in charge!

That's what a ultra-racist nationalistic totalitarian regime's propaganda would do to a people when it tries to asserts its "national pride" and "racial dignity" internationally.
 
hrc773
Posts: 62
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:35 pm

Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Analyzing people's behavior based race religion, country of origin, etc. probably belong in a different forum (one that I would stay away from).
 
sevenair
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:40 pm

People from different cultures act in different ways. It's a big world and with so many cultures, it is interesting to make observations. It doesn't make you a racist. It's unfortunate but some cultures and certain parts of certain cultures should not be allowed to fly. China seems to have a high incidence of aggressive passengers. In summer, some UK beach flights are a no go as they're full of idiots off on holiday. Being of a culture is not an excuse to do what you want.
 
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ernestxwb
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:11 pm

Ha! What a surprise
 
PanzerPowner
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:40 pm

Oh jeez just ferry them to North Korea and let them handle it i don't care how you ship em maybe by boat. But seriously, they should not act like that! Jeez the Chinese want everything like they think it should be Spraly Islands, and several other parts of Asia are "Owned By China".
Well uh, I obviously decided to refine this but i dont know how.
 
rbavfan
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:21 pm

tonystan wrote:
I hate to make general sweeping statements but in the 15 years or so that iv been travelling to and from China with work Iv discovered in the last 10 years or so the folk from that country have become increasingly aggressive and find it very difficult to cope with any sort of "change" or upset. Be it a delay or even something as small as refusal of first meal choice onboard. It's actually frightening.

There was a time those flights where very relaxed.



In the last 10 years more Chinese that could not afford to travel can. They are not aware of other cultures or how to behave. The Government has ran training video's on Television (by their own comments on it) and has started telling travelers if they mis behave outside the country and embarrass them they will face charges when they get home.

The US has had a lot more problems as well while fares get lower and people decide they are entitled to what they want.
 
AirstairFear
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:53 pm

rbavfan wrote:
In the last 10 years more Chinese that could not afford to travel can. They are not aware of other cultures or how to behave.


I'm not sure I completely buy that explanation. So you're saying these Chinese have always behaved like that at home before they could afford to travel? There are plenty of non-travel-related things in life that cause delays or frustration. Do they start rioting when the local grocery store is out of rice?
 
Socrates17
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:00 am

I lived in China 10 years ago (Nov. '04 through Jan '06) and flew a lot domestically. I always found the Chinese passengers to be polite and patient on boarding, and tolerant of delays (which especially with China Eastern, in its early years, were pretty endemic). I'm inclined to agree with rbavfan above that the problem has to do with lots of people travelling who couldn't before.
You Can't Take the Sky from Me
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:49 am

Good way to get shot, in a certain gun-crazy culture on the other side of the ocean.

Hopefully, they learn a better standard of behavior before attempting that in such a place.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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hongkongflyer
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:14 am

In China, for similar situation, airlines will leave you alone, avoid providing support and paying compensation to passangers which they are entitled to recive
if you don't behavior rude. Yes it is crazy but this is the culture of the service industry in China.

CX is a mess as well, they claimed that they have no seat available for delayed passangers going back to Hong Kong untill 12/1,
but turn out that they were still selling single journey tickets CTS-> HKG (eg. 31/12) demanding JPY75000+tax.
In this situation, you can't blame the passangers being rude, this is the airlines themselves force their passangers being rude.
 
hayzel777
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:18 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
In China, for similar situation, airlines will leave you alone, avoid providing support and paying compensation to passangers which they are entitled to recive
if you don't behavior rude. Yes it is crazy but this is the culture of the service industry in China.

CX is a mess as well, they claimed that they have no seat available for delayed passangers going back to Hong Kong untill 12/1,
but turn out that they were still selling single journey tickets CTS-> HKG (eg. 31/12) demanding JPY75000+tax.
In this situation, you can't blame the passangers being rude, this is the airlines themselves force their passangers being rude.


Still does not justify these Chinese attacking the ground staff. Attacking another human being is NEVER ok. I don't see any other group attacking the ground staff over delayed flights.
I cannot believe you condone such actions. Such a shame.
 
YVRing
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:55 am

I seem to recall a stereotype of the arrogant/ignorant American tourists. This is what happens when a country's middle class get wealth quickly and decide to venture abroad.Cultures clash and some people act in ways that are seen as totally unacceptable in the host country. I'm sure in 20-30 years if a major African nation can pull itself out of the Economic gutter this will be repeated again. I remember visiting family who work Baniff National Park in Canada, they would talk of "Japolanches" basically large groups of oblivious Japanese tourists talking up entire sidewalks and not sharing the paths.
 
Pacific
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:04 am

Meanwhile, in the cultured and civilised lands of Western Europe...(description written to illustrate the stereotyping)
http://www.thelocal.fr/20140120/angry-p ... air-flight

Stuff happens when any social demographic new to flying take to the air.
 
Wenlee
Posts: 29
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:34 am

OMG, another incident that has truly lost face for the mainland Chinese people. This issue is complicated and can
partly be traced to the cultural revolution where people were either brainwashed or taught that action speaks louder than
words. What I mean is that they must use force to get their way.
Furthermore, 30 years of high economic development and the ideology of get rich has led to a decline in any moral values
at all. Living in China, most people have no patience at all. You cross the street, even before you reach the zebra crossing
the drivers honk you to get out of the way (not to warn you) that is, if they slow down at the crossing anyway. The belief
in power and money really has corrupted Chinese society. This rising middle class plus the one child policy has created
a bunch of people who are spoilt and selfish. Mainland Chinese people are nervous( rising housing price, pollution, poor education
and inadequate healthcare). But this does not justify their actions abroad.
I don't think that just because they can afford to travel it means they do this violent behaviour. Some people are
actually very well mannered in China but in the minority and in many cases their arrogance and lack of etiquette is a result
of a country which has destroyed itself by controlling religion,destroying its 2000 year's of culture and an education system
that is backwards.
I do not accept that rude behaviour is a cultural issue and I do condone violent behaviour.I actually accept the idea that
in China, if you do not make a big fuss, people will ignore you. That is to say that being polite and talking to customer
service staff in general do not get you anyway, especially at state owned institutions e.g. the railway system but
airports have become better albeit still behind western standards. So can I conclude that they think this is how they
can also get their way in Foreign countries by being violent? No way man.
 
trex8
Posts: 5343
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:46 am

hongkongflyer wrote:
In China, for similar situation, airlines will leave you alone, avoid providing support and paying compensation to passangers which they are entitled to recive
if you don't behavior rude. Yes it is crazy but this is the culture of the service industry in China.

CX is a mess as well, they claimed that they have no seat available for delayed passengers going back to Hong Kong untill 12/1,
but turn out that they were still selling single journey tickets CTS-> HKG (eg. 31/12) demanding JPY75000+tax.
In this situation, you can't blame the passangers being rude, this is the airlines themselves force their passangers being rude.


There are ways of dealing with un co operative, incompetent service providers without descending to verbal and physical abuse. Mainland Chinese need to learn "manners", Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore Chinese rarely engage in the behavior their mainland counterparts sometimes descend into. All those places 4 -5 decades ago were also "nouveau riche" and such behavior was as rare as hens teeth compared to what happens these days too regularly from mainland travelers.
 
MRYapproach
Posts: 67
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:24 am

I recently spent two hours on the runway in a secondary city in China. No unruly unrest.
Later the same day, I was in Shanghai waiting for a connecting flight to Taiwan and our flight left two hours late.
There way zero communication from the ground staff about the delay. As a non-Mandarin speaking westerner, I got pretty worked up trying to figure out what was going on.
This sort of mess is not unusual in China, or any other country.
Why the mob violence in this case? Hard to say. Long-standing cultural rivalry? Or just typical modern me-me-me groupthink? We'll never know.
 
pa747sp
Posts: 227
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:39 am

I've seen lots of different people rioting. Push people hard enough and you'll get a riot wherever they come from.
Nothing seems as good since the VC10.
 
dc863
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:19 am

The Japanese were probably shaking their heads at the rioting Chinese thinking, "What barbarians."
 
kengo
Posts: 278
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:50 pm

The video does not tell the whole story. A Chinese friend of mine told me the riot was started after a frustrated Chinese woman, spending two days at the airport, asked one of the airlines officials as to when the operations will resume and she got a racial response by the airline official in something like 'why can't you Chinese be like the Taiwanese, Koreans and other foreigners all in the same situation waiting to return home, you Chinese don't deserve better than others.' This was spoken in Japanese but a Chinese living in Japan overheard the response and felt the response was not deserved, and this is what lead to the riot. I'm Japanese and I can understand to a lot of the Chinese bashings on the thread but on this one I believe the local airline agent(ANA or JAL) responsible for the handling the Chinese flights were at fault.
 
trent1000
Topic Author
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:22 am

kengo wrote:
The video does not tell the whole story. A Chinese friend of mine told me the riot was started after a frustrated Chinese woman, spending two days at the airport, asked one of the airlines officials as to when the operations will resume and she got a racial response by the airline official in something like 'why can't you Chinese be like the Taiwanese, Koreans and other foreigners all in the same situation waiting to return home, you Chinese don't deserve better than others.' This was spoken in Japanese but a Chinese living in Japan overheard the response and felt the response was not deserved, and this is what lead to the riot. I'm Japanese and I can understand to a lot of the Chinese bashings on the thread but on this one I believe the local airline agent(ANA or JAL) responsible for the handling the Chinese flights were at fault.


Chinese are not a 'race'. They are the same race as the Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese you mention. They are all part of the 'Asian race'.
So it is claimed that someone made a negative comment based on nationality. This does not justify physical violence. Sure, everyone who faced such long delays were tired and frustrated, but all the airport staff were also working under quite exceptional circumstances. If this account is true, we also have no idea of the manner in which the passenger asked the Japanese staff, nor the Japanese language proficiency of the Chinese who heard the comment. So many variables to take into account - and we weren't there. Still, if this was a confrontation between two or three people, there is no justification for a mass 'bar brawl' scenario.
 
hayzel777
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:24 am

trent1000 wrote:
kengo wrote:
The video does not tell the whole story. A Chinese friend of mine told me the riot was started after a frustrated Chinese woman, spending two days at the airport, asked one of the airlines officials as to when the operations will resume and she got a racial response by the airline official in something like 'why can't you Chinese be like the Taiwanese, Koreans and other foreigners all in the same situation waiting to return home, you Chinese don't deserve better than others.' This was spoken in Japanese but a Chinese living in Japan overheard the response and felt the response was not deserved, and this is what lead to the riot. I'm Japanese and I can understand to a lot of the Chinese bashings on the thread but on this one I believe the local airline agent(ANA or JAL) responsible for the handling the Chinese flights were at fault.


Chinese are not a 'race'. They are the same race as the Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese you mention. They are all part of the 'Asian race'.
So it is claimed that someone made a negative comment based on nationality. This does not justify physical violence. Sure, everyone who faced such long delays were tired and frustrated, but all the airport staff were also working under quite exceptional circumstances. If this account is true, we also have no idea of the manner in which the passenger asked the Japanese staff, nor the Japanese language proficiency of the Chinese who heard the comment. So many variables to take into account - and we weren't there. Still, if this was a confrontation between two or three people, there is no justification for a mass 'bar brawl' scenario.

Thats obviously what the china people would say. Attempting to defend their fellow countrymen!
 
Fiend
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:13 am

There is still a lot of resentment from the Chinese towards the Japanese dating back to events in WW2
BAC 1-11, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350, A380, B737, B747, B757, B777, B787, L1011, Fokker 100, ATR 72, MD83
 
Cerecl
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:36 pm

trent1000 wrote:
Chinese are not a 'race'. They are the same race as the Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese you mention. They are all part of the 'Asian race'.
.

Taiwanese maybe, but Koreans and Japanese? It is like saying English, Scottish and Irish are the same "European race". Sad to see this degree of ignorance on this forum.
dc863 wrote:
The Japanese were probably shaking their heads at the rioting Chinese thinking, "What barbarians."

If you are in anyway familiar with Asian 20th century history, you will probably understand that there is not a race less qualified to think as you described.

It is never acceptable to resort to violence in this situation. Having said that, it is all too easy for the airport to blame Chinese tourists. It is widely reported in Chinese media that the riot started when the airport decided to let the flights due to depart on the same day the airport reopened leave first presumably as an attempt to minimise impact on on-time departure figures. I am not sure how many of you would simply wait patiently for your term in this scenario if you are one of those passengers that had been stranded for 2 days already
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
trent1000
Topic Author
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Re: CTS Heavy Snow Delays - Chinese Pax Riot

Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:22 am

Cerecl wrote:
trent1000 wrote:
Chinese are not a 'race'. They are the same race as the Taiwanese, Koreans and Japanese you mention. They are all part of the 'Asian race'.
.

Taiwanese maybe, but Koreans and Japanese? It is like saying English, Scottish and Irish are the same "European race".


They ARE predominantly the same - the race is called 'caucasian'. Your reference to 'European' is a geographic term. And your reference to ignorance is the pot calling the kettle black. I asked for sincere explanations of the behaviour shown in the thread's video, not hysterical, knee-jerk attempts at justifying physical violence against airport staff.

I am not sure how many of you would simply wait patiently for your term in this scenario if you are one of those passengers that had been stranded for 2 days already.

There's nothing one can do, but wait. Bad weather delays are not the fault of an airline or airport staff and certainly no reason to start a brawl.

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