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ahj2000
Topic Author
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AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:33 am

A couple days ago on DFW-CLT, I was on an A321 that had the new upholstery. Only.
No IFE, MCE, or power. Just the new seat covers. I kindof appreciate this because a couple of weeks ago I flew one that was the absolute pits but why not just go for a total refurb (with video)? Especially since LUS 321s do huge routes like CLT/PHL-LAX/SFO/SAN/SEA/DEN, AND a bunch of L-AA routes now. Its kinda annoying, even if it is a tiny increase in comfort.

Are there any new plans for 321 refurbs? I hope reupholstering them is not the only plan....
-Andrés Juánez
 
ty97
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:57 am

No plans for IFE/power/MCE have been announced for the pmUS 321 fleet.
 
nate1879
Posts: 39
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:00 am

I connect through CLT and DFW a bit, and I specifically try to get on 738 or 319 to avoid the spotty 321s. I feel your pain.
over a million miles and counting from TYS
 
Sooner787
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:31 pm

ty97 wrote:
No plans for IFE/power/MCE have been announced for the pmUS 321 fleet.



Makes you wonder if AA will replace the pmUS A321's with the new A321neo's coming on property soon?
 
jbs2886
Posts: 2430
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:33 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
A couple days ago on DFW-CLT, I was on an A321 that had the new upholstery. Only.
No IFE, MCE, or power. Just the new seat covers. I kindof appreciate this because a couple of weeks ago I flew one that was the absolute pits but why not just go for a total refurb (with video)? Especially since LUS 321s do huge routes like CLT/PHL-LAX/SFO/SAN/SEA/DEN, AND a bunch of L-AA routes now. Its kinda annoying, even if it is a tiny increase in comfort.

Are there any new plans for 321 refurbs? I hope reupholstering them is not the only plan....


I bought 4 500-mile upgrades and was on an unrefurb'd 321...worst decision. The standard American product is actually very good (MCE could use soft upgrades), but it is so inconsistent, especially on sUS planes which do appear to be rotating heavily through sAA hubs.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:36 pm

If one pmUS fleet should be refurbished, it's the A321s. Not only would I refurbish the interiors, but add everything the AA A321s have, plus Sharklets. Excluding a few dozen delivered in 01-02, the fleet is very young.

On the other hand, I wouldn't bother with the pmUS A319s and A320s. I personally believe the A320s will be gone in 5-7 years, and the A319s are perfect for the short and thin.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
Vctony
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:38 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
ty97 wrote:
No plans for IFE/power/MCE have been announced for the pmUS 321 fleet.



Makes you wonder if AA will replace the pmUS A321's with the new A321neo's coming on property soon?


Other than the oldest 28, I doubt it.

AA has 28 pmUS A321s built delivered between 1/9/2001 - 4/25/2002.

However, the rest of their A321 deliveries were between 7/17/2008 - 6/5/2015 with 31 being newer than the oldest pmAA A321.
 
sccutler
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:43 pm

Flew DFW-PHX last week on an ex-US 321, in First. Not impressed (well, impressed, just not favorably). Shabby, and no power, etc.

My wife has started noticing the differences between A32x and 737s on AA, and she dryly remarked, "I hope the parts I can't see are better-built than the ones I can..." It is true - they squeak and rattle and creak a lot more.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
jbs2886
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:50 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
If one pmUS fleet should be refurbished, it's the A321s. Not only would I refurbish the interiors, but add everything the AA A321s have, plus Sharklets. Excluding a few dozen delivered in 01-02, the fleet is very young.

On the other hand, I wouldn't bother with the pmUS A319s and A320s. I personally believe the A320s will be gone in 5-7 years, and the A319s are perfect for the short and thin.


IIRC, some of A320s are being retired now. Also, can old A321s be retrofitted with Sharklets?

Personally, I am hoping for a C Series order, but the A319s are too new.
 
Vctony
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:10 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
If one pmUS fleet should be refurbished, it's the A321s. Not only would I refurbish the interiors, but add everything the AA A321s have, plus Sharklets. Excluding a few dozen delivered in 01-02, the fleet is very young.

On the other hand, I wouldn't bother with the pmUS A319s and A320s. I personally believe the A320s will be gone in 5-7 years, and the A319s are perfect for the short and thin.


I think that the 737-MAX will do the pmUS A320s in as AA's eventual mainline fleet will be A319/738/738MAX/A321/A321NEO.

However, AA did sign a deal to equip the A320s with GoGo 2ku satellite internet, which leads me to believe they intend to keep them for a little while.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:14 pm

It's a travesty that they don't update the interior to match that of the pmAA 321s. I fly the pmUS 321 on the DFW-PHL route and they are terrible. It's nearly 2017...if you are going to update them, then update them right and have a matching/consistent product with the AA 321s.

Nothing bugs me more than having so many different onboard products within a fleet.
Whatever
 
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compensateme
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:34 pm

AA's still retiring its MD-80 -- and invested a very, very large amount of capital to do so so quickly -- and people really believe the US 321 will be retired? Seriously? Because the interiors are incapable of being refurbished?
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
Vctony
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 1999 10:51 am

Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 4:38 pm

compensateme wrote:
AA's still retiring its MD-80 -- and invested a very, very large amount of capital to do so so quickly -- and people really believe the US 321 will be retired? Seriously? Because the interiors are incapable of being refurbished?


I believe that the real reason why the A321s haven't been refurbished is that they're the backbone of the pmUS fleet and they couldn't afford to take them out of service the way that they could the A319s.

When pmUS and pmAA are fully integrated, I'm sure we'll see most (except for maybe the first 28) pmUS A321s refurbished to match the A319s.
 
jetsetter629
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:20 pm

I flew one in October PHL-SEA and noticed the seat pitch has been reduced on the refurbished A321s. Terrible I there is not MCE for a 6 hour flight...
 
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Rajahdhani
Posts: 610
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:36 pm

ty97 wrote:
No plans for IFE/power/MCE have been announced for the pmUS 321 fleet.


In most cases, they are older, and likely the first to be retired (compared to the factor-delivered birds that came into the new AA brand).

Were there pmUS A23xs with IFE on board, prior to the merger?

I guess it comes down to how you have to use it:

In coach - no IFE, no power ports, but better legroom;
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 321_V3.php

Or, in coach - power ports, IFE if in MCE, but lesser legroom;
https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ameri ... 321_V2.php
 
777PHX
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:25 pm

Sooner787 wrote:
ty97 wrote:
No plans for IFE/power/MCE have been announced for the pmUS 321 fleet.



Makes you wonder if AA will replace the pmUS A321's with the new A321neo's coming on property soon?


That wouldn't make any sense if they're refurbishing the seats in them. A large number of the PMUS A321s are actually quite young.
 
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American 767
Posts: 4529
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:58 pm

777PHX wrote:
Sooner787 wrote:
ty97 wrote:
No plans for IFE/power/MCE have been announced for the pmUS 321 fleet.



Makes you wonder if AA will replace the pmUS A321's with the new A321neo's coming on property soon?


That wouldn't make any sense if they're refurbishing the seats in them. A large number of the PMUS A321s are actually quite young.


As mentioned in another reply above, if there is a likely possibility to replace PMUS A321s, only the ones that were delivered 15 years ago or so would be replaced with new A321NEOS. The younger ones would not go anywhere in the near future and those would get the new seats.

Three weeks ago I flew on an nAAtive A321 (not ex-US) from LGA to DFW roundtrip, it's a very nice aircraft, modern...quiet...quite roomy. The PMUS airbi are very comfy too.
Ben Soriano
 
airzona11
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:12 pm

For most people, I would think the non refurbished A321s would be the way to go, having more leg room in Economy vs their counterparts.

With such a big number of A321s flying around, you would think they would want to capture the increase in MCE earnings. AA has such a wide spread offering of inflight hard products. In my opinion, there must not be that large of increased revenue from domestic MCE if they are letting approx 100 jets fly around without it.
 
jbs2886
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:18 pm

airzona11 wrote:
For most people, I would think the non refurbished A321s would be the way to go, having more leg room in Economy vs their counterparts.

With such a big number of A321s flying around, you would think they would want to capture the increase in MCE earnings. AA has such a wide spread offering of inflight hard products. In my opinion, there must not be that large of increased revenue from domestic MCE if they are letting approx 100 jets fly around without it.


Taking the jets out of service for retrofitting may be more expensive (decreased revenue and profit) than the incremental MCE earnings.
 
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Boeing778X
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:44 pm

Vctony wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
If one pmUS fleet should be refurbished, it's the A321s. Not only would I refurbish the interiors, but add everything the AA A321s have, plus Sharklets. Excluding a few dozen delivered in 01-02, the fleet is very young.

On the other hand, I wouldn't bother with the pmUS A319s and A320s. I personally believe the A320s will be gone in 5-7 years, and the A319s are perfect for the short and thin.


I think that the 737-MAX will do the pmUS A320s in as AA's eventual mainline fleet will be A319/738/738MAX/A321/A321NEO.

However, AA did sign a deal to equip the A320s with GoGo 2ku satellite internet, which leads me to believe they intend to keep them for a little while.


Agreed, and I don't think it's impossible that AA will take additional 737 MAX's before all is said and done.

Adding wifi isn't as substantial as a refit, me thinks. I rode on an A320 the other night, N678AW. Comfy, yes, but also tired and worn. Besides the very out of place AA logo on the bulkhead, these A320s are extremely US on the interior.

And 678 is only a 2005. The majority of the remaining A320s are 1998-2002 vintages.

Not exactly a young fleet.
United Airlines: $#!ttin' On Everyone Since 1931
 
Flighty
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:51 pm

Although 1998 was a shocking 18-19 years ago, none of the Airbii are worn out. They are all perfectly capable of getting new interiors. It's just a financial question.

And IMO, for product consistency AA should update all the Airbus interiors to 2020 specification. A fleet is only as good as its worst member.
 
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compensateme
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:00 pm

Flighty wrote:
Although 1998 was a shocking 18-19 years ago, none of the Airbii are worn out. They are all perfectly capable of getting new interiors. It's just a financial question.

And IMO, for product consistency AA should update all the Airbus interiors to 2020 specification. A fleet is only as good as its worst member.


DL's installing new interiors in aircraft that are pushing 28-years-old. NW did the same with the DC9. The concept of AA replacing its older 321 just to upgrade the interior is rather silly -- the US interiors were always basic, no frills.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
len90
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:19 am

Boeing778X wrote:
Vctony wrote:
Boeing778X wrote:
If one pmUS fleet should be refurbished, it's the A321s. Not only would I refurbish the interiors, but add everything the AA A321s have, plus Sharklets. Excluding a few dozen delivered in 01-02, the fleet is very young.

On the other hand, I wouldn't bother with the pmUS A319s and A320s. I personally believe the A320s will be gone in 5-7 years, and the A319s are perfect for the short and thin.


I think that the 737-MAX will do the pmUS A320s in as AA's eventual mainline fleet will be A319/738/738MAX/A321/A321NEO.

However, AA did sign a deal to equip the A320s with GoGo 2ku satellite internet, which leads me to believe they intend to keep them for a little while.


Agreed, and I don't think it's impossible that AA will take additional 737 MAX's before all is said and done.

Adding wifi isn't as substantial as a refit, me thinks. I rode on an A320 the other night, N678AW. Comfy, yes, but also tired and worn. Besides the very out of place AA logo on the bulkhead, these A320s are extremely US on the interior.

And 678 is only a 2005. The majority of the remaining A320s are 1998-2002 vintages.

Not exactly a young fleet.

There are 4 320s in the fleet that are 2009 and newer, a lot younger than the pmUS 319 fleet. Another 6 are also newer than that 2002 "vintage". Don't see the entire A320 fleet being retired with some frames being so young.
Len90
 
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richcam427
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:16 am

I was on an ex-US A321 a couple months ago, SMF-CLT. I didn't think the interior was particularly bad, but it wasn't great either.
 
bashaw
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:00 am

Doug Parker just want's to make sure everyone remembers how cheap and tight fisted he is. How many of those LUS planes are actually LAW metal. He's trying to prove himself as an operator of a premium carrier only to remind us frequent fliers what horrible airlines AW and US actually were.
 
DeltaRules
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:55 pm

Rajahdhani wrote:
ty97 wrote:
No plans for IFE/power/MCE have been announced for the pmUS 321 fleet.


In most cases, they are older, and likely the first to be retired (compared to the factor-delivered birds that came into the new AA brand).

Were there pmUS A23xs with IFE on board, prior to the merger?


The Airbus narrrowbodies all had drop-down screens which were removed sometime after 2007. The last time I was on one with working screens was an A319 PIT-MCO that summer.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
global1
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:23 pm

Consistency is crucial in brand development.
Delta is on track to soon offer fully refurbished/new A319/A320/A321 all with state IFE and power ports, etc.....

Even if an aircraft may be retired within the next five years,the brand will take a hit. That's 5years of sub par customer experience.
 
Wacker1000
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:25 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
Also, can old A321s be retrofitted with Sharklets?


Yes but expense depends on the aircraft. If the aircraft had the wing reinforced from the factory its almost as simple as removing the wing tips and installing sharklets. Since this mod didn't exist when many of the A321s were built this has to be done post production and makes installing sharklets costly. If you only do half the fleet then you have airport planning issues.
 
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Polot
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Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:32 pm

global1 wrote:
Consistency is crucial in brand development.
Delta is on track to soon offer fully refurbished/new A319/A320/A321 all with state IFE and power ports, etc.....

Even if an aircraft may be retired within the next five years,the brand will take a hit. That's 5years of sub par customer experience.

And will continue offering 717/MD80/MD90s without that IFE often on the same routes....
Wacker1000 wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
Also, can old A321s be retrofitted with Sharklets?


Yes but expense depends on the aircraft. If the aircraft had the wing reinforced from the factory its almost as simple as removing the wing tips and installing sharklets. Since this mod didn't exist when many of the A321s were built this has to be done post production and makes installing sharklets costly. If you only do half the fleet then you have airport planning issues.


Many of the US A321s are quite new and should accept sharklets without any major issues. But it is a large fleet.
 
global1
Posts: 518
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: AA refurbished A321s

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:38 pm

Passengers don't care about sharklets.

This thread is about Airbus, but since you brought the MD series into the mix, the MD 88 cannot support IFE. The 717 stage lengths are short but power ports are available at every seat and, all aircraft feature new or fully refurbished interiors and free streaming entertainment.

Now we can go on and and discuss the 767,757 and 737-800 fleets if you'd like.
 
ahj2000
Topic Author
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: AA refurbished A321s

Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:12 am

Agree, passengers could not care less about sharklets. However, its a big potential cost saver so...
-Andrés Juánez

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