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Cunard
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Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:44 am

According to CH.Aviation Alitalia(AZ) are to discontinue flying from FCO to MXP in the first quarter of 2017.

How times have changed when even the Italian flag carrier can not maintain flights between Rome and Milan-Malpensa although flights to Milan-Linate will remain.

What airline will now become the dominant player on FCO to MXP.
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mercure1
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:52 am

Not big loss really.

FCO-MXP for AZ is merely only 3x daily using E175 regional jet.

FCO-LIN is 20+ flights daily using various types.

As been shown LIN is the far preferred local airport for Milan.
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IPFreely
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:02 am

Cunard wrote:
What airline will now become the dominant player on FCO to MXP.


The Italiarail high speed train. Cheaper, more reliable, and faster if your destination is Milan (the city) and not MXP (the airport).
 
ahj2000
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:53 am

Whoa. I initially read this as AZ discontinues FCO, to move to MXP. This makes complete sense.
-Andrés Juánez
 
drdisque
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:18 am

What exactly is the point of FCO-MXP?

From what I understand almost everyone in Milan prefers LIN when they can use it. MXP has pretty much no AZ or SkyTeam service that FCO doesn't have, so nobody from Rome would connect in MXP on AZ or their partners. So this flight is just for local traffic and connections in FCO for the small population of people in Milan who prefer MXP as well as a handful of trashy low-yield spill and interline connections?

Makes sense to me to drop it.
 
9w748capt
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:38 am

IPFreely wrote:
Cunard wrote:
What airline will now become the dominant player on FCO to MXP.


The Italiarail high speed train. Cheaper, more reliable, and faster if your destination is Milan (the city) and not MXP (the airport).


Exactly this. Italiarail is definitely the way to travel in Italy. Who's flying from Rome to Milan anyway unless it's an international connection?
 
lychemsa
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:09 am

Nobody going to Milan wants to really land at Malpensa over Linate.

Linate is much closer to town.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:24 am

Cunard wrote:
What airline will now become the dominant player on FCO to MXP.


EasyJet, although they'll quit it soon too but a bit after Alitalia. Alitalia drops out 1 februari, EasyJet 24 march. After that no airline is active on that route anymore.
 
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Ytraveller
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:26 am

ahj2000 wrote:
Whoa. I initially read this as AZ discontinues FCO, to move to MXP. This makes complete sense.

I read it that way too... Maybe thread title could be changed to "Alitalia to end FCO-MXP route in 1Q17"
 
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Heavierthanair
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:12 am

G'day

To my knowledge numerous Alitalia crew that operated Alitalia services out of Malpensa at times when it was an Alitalia hub still live in and around the Malpensa area. These people now have to commute to FCO for working their flights. Without these MXP-FCO-MXP flights those people will have to commute via LIN, about 2 hours by car from MXP during rush hour time when most crew need to get there. Using the train is not practical. Clearly MXP-FCO-MXP filled with subloads does not make money, but I wonder what the unions have to say if Alitalia cancels those. Those crew are likely hoping for Alitalia to reverse its questionable decision to concentrate heavy flying in FCO and base their long haul out of Malpensa again - provided they will still be around at the time in one way or another.
Milan - or better northern Italy - is the industrial center with the highest demand for international flying in Italy. This is pretty well served by airlines other than Alitalia, EK's A380 service to JFK comes to mind. Some also consider FRA, MUN and ZRH northern Italian airports, better choice of flights and fares are typically more attractive.

Just some thoughts .... :stirthepot:

Cheers

Peter
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dubaiamman243
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:14 pm

'Alitalia to drop FCO-MXP' would be a better title.
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:45 pm

So no one is going to fly between MXP and Rome??
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:07 pm

Linate is the easier origin if people want to fly long-haul via Rome, and the better destination if people want to go to the Milan city center.

Three hours by train Milano-Rome is time-efficient and economical.
 
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Heavierthanair
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:23 pm

G'day

jfklganyc wrote:
So no one is going to fly between MXP and Rome??


A quick check revealed that Easyjet flies the route, albeit not daily. Given they are the largest operator at Malpensa they may increase flight frequency if Alitalia vacates the route - provided there is a business in doing so.

You may also try Ethiopian (B788!), Air Cairo (#@"§ì), Neos, Meridiana

Source: http://www.milanomalpensa-airport.com/en/flights

Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
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GCT64
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:35 pm

Heavierthanair wrote:
G'day

jfklganyc wrote:
So no one is going to fly between MXP and Rome??


A quick check revealed that Easyjet flies the route, albeit not daily. Given they are the largest operator at Malpensa they may increase flight frequency if Alitalia vacates the route - provided there is a business in doing so.


As mentioned above, Easyjet is also stopping the MXP-FCO route (last flight is on 24 Mar 17)
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:08 pm

Malpensa - Fiumicino is a point-to point route: very few people fly to Fiumicino from Malpensa to intercept long haul flights. Malpensa serves primarily Milan metropolitan area, but also large cities in northwest Italy (such as Novara, Vercelli and Busto Arsizio just to mention a few) and in southern Switzerland (Lugano, Locarno, Bellinzona and so on). When Alitalia and easyJet close MXP-FCO route, people who live in these areas will have to go to Milan by train or car and then take another train to arrive in Rome. What a waste of time! In 2016, 292 thousand passengers flew the route with Alitalia, and so 800 passengers a day more or less. Load factors must be pretty high, since the route is operated above all by Embraers. Only Alitalia is able to lose money on routes where aircrafts are quite full.
By the way, Alitalia now wants to concentrate its operations on long haul flights, and in fact from S17 Rome - Rio de Janeiro service will be reduced from 7 to 4 weekly and then further to 3 weekly; Rome - Seoul (which is also a Skyteam hub) will see 1 weekly frequency being axed (from 4 to 3 weekly). I hope that these reductions will result in new destinations being added, otherwise the long-awaited long haul expansion will prove hard to happen in the near future.
 
Cunard
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:45 pm

dubaiamman243 wrote:
'Alitalia to drop FCO-MXP' would be a better title.



It was the same headline used on Ch.aviation

I think the headline is self explanatory and doesn't need changing.
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mercure1
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:50 pm

9w748capt wrote:
Who's flying from Rome to Milan anyway unless it's an international connection?


Millions do. The FCO-LIN shuttle remains a very busy air route regardless of trains.
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toltommy
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:07 pm

Heavierthanair wrote:
G'day

To my knowledge numerous Alitalia crew that operated Alitalia services out of Malpensa at times when it was an Alitalia hub still live in and around the Malpensa area. These people now have to commute to FCO for working their flights. Without these MXP-FCO-MXP flights those people will have to commute via LIN, about 2 hours by car from MXP during rush hour time when most crew need to get there. Using the train is not practical. Clearly MXP-FCO-MXP filled with subloads does not make money, but I wonder what the unions have to say if Alitalia cancels those.


If they were based at MXP and the company closes the base, then the union contract likely has provisions for impacted employees, such as relocation reimbursement. But surely you are not suggesting that the company keep the route open for non-revs? Those who commute to their crew base do so at their choice. There is no right to commute.
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:50 pm

Please change the title which is misleading. It's only going to reignite old FCO vs MXP arguments which have been discussed as nauseam.

The flights axed are no surprise. LIN is better poised to serve such a short domestic flight and can better compete with the high speed rail. Also LIN will get subway access in 2018 which will make it more competitive.
 
Boeing744
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:28 pm

I was quite shocked at how far MXP is from the city centre when I flew out of there recently. The bus took over an hour to get to the main terminal, and that was with zero traffic. I was kicking myself for not going from Bergamo (which was a bit cheaper) or Linate (which was a bit more, but probably would have been worth the extra) while flying to CTA recently.

I can understand that not many people in Milan proper would use this routing to get to Rome. I'd be curious to hear if there are actually any numbers on how many AZ staff commute from the Malpensa area to FCO on the flights that will be axed...
 
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VCEflyboy
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Re: Alitalia to exit FCO to MXP in 1Q17

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:59 pm

Ok so AZ was losing 6 million euros a year on MXP - FCO. Flights are pretty full but average fares are around 30 euros. Hence the axing.
 
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VCEflyboy
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Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 4:57 pm

A new chapter is unfolding in the AZ saga.
AZ is leaving MXP and axing all flights, including MXP-JFK which is reportedly the airline's most profitable route.
NRT was struggling so no surprise there. The AUH gap will be taken up by EY in all probability.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:17 pm

Good. Focus on connecting LIN domestically and to European capitals.

Doubt MXP-JFK has much profitability. Look at how US airlines some years have left Milan entirely during winter season. Cant be too strong market.
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MAH4546
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:19 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Good. Focus on connecting LIN domestically and to European capitals.

Doubt MXP-JFK has much profitability. Look at how US airlines some years have left Milan entirely during winter season. Cant be too strong market.


You are confusing MXP with FCO. All U.S. carriers maintain year-round service to Malpensa (AA/MIA+JFK, UA/EWR, DL/JFK) have for many years. The only seasonal Malpensa service is Delta's Atlanta flights.
a.
 
sofianec
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:22 pm

Another ridiculous move from Alitalia. Abandoning MXP is like LH abandoning MUC. Rome is tourism not J Class fares. Can't they just sell them to LH and be done with.
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dcaviation
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:23 pm

Wasn't this topic discussed last week to death?
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:28 pm

They should at least keep JFK-MXP.
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AviationRhys
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:31 pm

I think it is time for Meridiana to step up to the plate and make MXP a bigger base with plenty of European flights and a few long haul like MXP-JFK.
 
dcaviation
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:36 pm

 
DFW789ER
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:49 pm

AZ has to be one of the most dysfunctional carries still flying.
 
factsonly
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:56 pm

As long as AZ remains a member (??) of the AF, AZ, DL, KL Joint Venture, AZ maintains a presence in the TATL market from MXP.

- MXP-JFK on DL
- MXP-ATL on DL
 
Cunard
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:58 pm

dcaviation wrote:
Wasn't this topic discussed last week to death?


NO

Last week the topic discussed was AZ withdrawing from the FCO to MXP route.

THIS

Thread is about AZ pulling out of MXP completely.

SO

You see we are discussing a new post.
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jbs2886
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:59 pm

Do we have a source? This would be pretty big.
 
Cunard
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:05 pm

factsonly wrote:
As long as AZ remains a member (??) of the AF, AZ, DL, KL Joint Venture, AZ maintains a presence in the TATL market from MXP.

- MXP-JFK on DL
- MXP-ATL on DL


I was under the impression that the JV (Joint Venture) with AF/KL was due to expire in a couple of weeks having not been renewed in 2015.
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klakzky123
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:07 pm

Cunard wrote:
factsonly wrote:
As long as AZ remains a member (??) of the AF, AZ, DL, KL Joint Venture, AZ maintains a presence in the TATL market from MXP.

- MXP-JFK on DL
- MXP-ATL on DL


I was under the impression that the JV (Joint Venture) with AF/KL was due to expire in a couple of weeks having not been renewed in 2015.


There are two JV agreements. The Transatlantic JV isn't going away. The JV that is expiring is a separate agreement with AF/KL within Europe. DL/AF/KL/AZ are still operating the transatlantic JV which means the AZ code is still on the DL flights to MXP.
 
deltal1011man
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:08 pm

Cunard wrote:
factsonly wrote:
As long as AZ remains a member (??) of the AF, AZ, DL, KL Joint Venture, AZ maintains a presence in the TATL market from MXP.

- MXP-JFK on DL
- MXP-ATL on DL


I was under the impression that the JV (Joint Venture) with AF/KL was due to expire in a couple of weeks having not been renewed in 2015.

That is the Euro JV with just AF/KL

as of now AZ isn't leaving the Transatlantic JV with AF/KL and DL.

It will be interesting to see if DL ups capacity to MXP (extra JFK flight? large capacity? ATL going year round again?) to make up for it or if the JV will take the loss in capacity.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:16 pm

I have no doubt that JFK-MXP was very profitable at one point, but Emirates has to have killed that.

That route in particular is constantly on sale in both coach and business class, every other week i see it on sale. $498 in coach i feel like i see constantly on that route sale dates. Altitalia no way is making a ton on that route, not anymore.

I think they are smart to cut MXP and focus on FCO. They suffering really bad and need to simplify their expenses and really get something that works even if its alot smaller.
 
GianiDC
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:29 pm

Just the other day I was reading an interview with Marco Sansavini, now CCO of IB and former CCO of AZ , explaining that FCO is not really made for a network carrier when he compared it with his new home MAD.
In addition he said that infrastructure and discipline are problems in Italy, stating the obvious.
 
Galleytalk
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Re: Alitalia To Leave MXP

Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:38 pm

Wasn't the same thing with IBERIA leaving BCN ?? I dont know if we can compare the BCN market with MXP market but recently IB just announced its intentions to resume the longhaul flights from BCN which means that the move out of BCN wasnt so good for IB...
 
ahj2000
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Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:06 pm

MXP is a different case from Barcelona, and IB is a vastly different from AZ. For one, MAD is basically on the way to any overseas point from BCN. MXP also has Emirates eastbound and westbound, and cheap fares all the time. Also note, the IAG longhaul out of MAD are almost definitely not going to be IB. Not saying that AZ could not go back to MXP, it is just highly unlikely.
-Andrés Juánez

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