Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
c933103
Topic Author
Posts: 4832
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:07 am

Back in 2013 there were some news about Airbus offering the A350 Regional model (=reduced MTOW to around 250t), and there're also reports that Etihad is the first airline confirmed to be picking up that variant. But why there are no further report on this lower MTOW variant of A350 in the next few years?
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
(≧▽≦) Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
(≧▽≦) Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
You are now at your youngest moment in your remaining life.
 
Okcflyer
Posts: 711
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 11:10 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:34 am

Died with the later released A339 offering?
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1247
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:48 am

By regional, do they mean Gulf-Europe length or >750 mi like we might say in the US??
-Andrés Juánez
 
User avatar
adamblang
Posts: 1277
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:47 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:09 am

"Regional" for the A350 apparently means 6,800 nmi, or a region consisting of most of the earth's non-fish population:

Image
 
benbeny
Posts: 240
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:44 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:46 am

And 100% with single fuel stop. Seriously, why would anyone wants to order that when A330neo is almost ready for certification?
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:51 am

c933103 wrote:
Back in 2013 there were some news about Airbus offering the A350 Regional model (=reduced MTOW to around 250t), and there're also reports that Etihad is the first airline confirmed to be picking up that variant. But why there are no further report on this lower MTOW variant of A350 in the next few years?


Is this anything to do with it? It's called "regional" - LOL.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 50-388540/

"Singapore launches lower-weight 'regional' A350

Singapore Airlines has signed up as the launch customer for a lower operating weight "regional" version of the Airbus A350-900 long-range widebody twinjet.

Aimed at addressing the competitive threat posed by Boeing's 787-10 double stretch, the aircraft will be structurally identical to the baseline A350-900 but certificated to a reduced maximum take-off weight of 250t, compared with the standard 268t."


mariner
aeternum nauta
 
trex8
Posts: 5611
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:35 pm

250 ton regional A359s are slated for delivery to EY and SQ. SQ had derated 772ERs also.
https://www.ausbt.com.au/singapore-airl ... nge-config
Last edited by trex8 on Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:40 pm

It's just one of the many A350 weight variants (250, 268, 273, 275 and 280 tonne MTOW).
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
User avatar
BaconButty
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:58 pm

benbeny wrote:
And 100% with single fuel stop. Seriously, why would anyone wants to order that when A330neo is almost ready for certification?

Obviously if you want the other characteristics of the A350 (size, performance) but not the payload/range. There are usually some other benefits:
  • MZFW increase (hence revenue payload) - not sure if that's the case here
  • Lower acquisition costs
  • Flexibility to pay to restore full capability
  • Maybe increase in Cycle limit?
  • Lower landing fees where they're MTOW based (though that wouldn't be a benefit viz a viz the A330)
Down with that sort of thing!
 
YIMBY
Posts: 724
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:32 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:27 pm

ahj2000 wrote:
By regional, do they mean Gulf-Europe length or >750 mi like we might say in the US??


In Europe "regional" - with its variants in national languages - refers to something sub-domestic. For example, a regional train is something between commuting train and long distance (domestic) train. In aviation I associate "regional" with less than 1 hour routes connecting from a (minor) hub to smaller towns or tourist resorts. Calling a shortened-range wide-body "regional" is a total misnomer.
 
User avatar
c933103
Topic Author
Posts: 4832
Joined: Wed May 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:41 pm

trex8 wrote:
250 ton regional A359s are slated for delivery to EY and SQ. SQ had derated 772ERs also.
https://www.ausbt.com.au/singapore-airl ... nge-config

I see...
mariner wrote:
c933103 wrote:
Back in 2013 there were some news about Airbus offering the A350 Regional model (=reduced MTOW to around 250t), and there're also reports that Etihad is the first airline confirmed to be picking up that variant. But why there are no further report on this lower MTOW variant of A350 in the next few years?


Is this anything to do with it? It's called "regional" - LOL.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 50-388540/

"Singapore launches lower-weight 'regional' A350

Singapore Airlines has signed up as the launch customer for a lower operating weight "regional" version of the Airbus A350-900 long-range widebody twinjet.

Aimed at addressing the competitive threat posed by Boeing's 787-10 double stretch, the aircraft will be structurally identical to the baseline A350-900 but certificated to a reduced maximum take-off weight of 250t, compared with the standard 268t."


mariner


Yes that's it but this is also from 2013

KarelXWB wrote:
It's just one of the many A350 weight variants (250, 268, 273, 275 and 280 tonne MTOW).

If understanded correctly, this is the only version which have derated engines?


BaconButty wrote:
benbeny wrote:
And 100% with single fuel stop. Seriously, why would anyone wants to order that when A330neo is almost ready for certification?

Obviously if you want the other characteristics of the A350 (size, performance) but not the payload/range. There are usually some other benefits:
  • MZFW increase (hence revenue payload) - not sure if that's the case here
  • Lower acquisition costs
  • Flexibility to pay to restore full capability
  • Maybe increase in Cycle limit?
  • Lower landing fees where they're MTOW based (though that wouldn't be a benefit viz a viz the A330)

How about fuel economy when fuel price are high and also fleet commonality for airlines that are going to retire/don't have A330ceo and not planning to take A330neo?
YIMBY wrote:
ahj2000 wrote:
By regional, do they mean Gulf-Europe length or >750 mi like we might say in the US??


In Europe "regional" - with its variants in national languages - refers to something sub-domestic. For example, a regional train is something between commuting train and long distance (domestic) train. In aviation I associate "regional" with less than 1 hour routes connecting from a (minor) hub to smaller towns or tourist resorts. Calling a shortened-range wide-body "regional" is a total misnomer.

Well, it was offered together with A330 Regional, and that makes sense with its projected 3000nmi range at the time and a projected market of Chinese Airlines - routes like PEK-DEL/SIN are probably considered as regional by Asian standard. Then they probably extended the name onto A350 despite it is hardly regional, simply because they are both lower MTOW variants with derated engine and might be they want to sell them together. And that's probably the reason why there're no further news carry that name (even the 2016 press linked above only mentioned medium haul A330), that they probably realized it is a bad idea to call something with 6800nm range a regional aircraft.
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
(≧▽≦) Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan! Nyan!
(≧▽≦) Meow Meow Meow! Meow Meow Meow Meow!
You are now at your youngest moment in your remaining life.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27359
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:56 pm

BaconButty wrote:
Obviously if you want the other characteristics of the A350 (size, performance) but not the payload/range. There are usually some other benefits:
[list]
[*]MZFW increase (hence revenue payload) - not sure if that's the case here


It is not - the MZFW is 192,000kg, which is 3700kg below the maximum offered on (select) higher Weight Variants.
 
User avatar
BaconButty
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:42 pm

Stitch wrote:
It is not - the MZFW is 192,000kg, which is 3700kg below the maximum offered on (select) higher Weight Variants.

That's me told! I didn't know that, a higher MZFW is often a feature of lower MTOW weight variants.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:47 pm

BaconButty wrote:
Stitch wrote:

That's me told! I didn't know that, a higher MZFW is often a feature of lower MTOW weight variants.


How does that work?
"Tell my wife I am trawling Atlantis - and I still have my hands on the wheel…"
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15537
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:52 pm

Airbus typically has opted for a dynamic mtow/mzfw on these offerings. It will have much the same range as the 233t A330-300.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
User avatar
BaconButty
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:42 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:23 pm

thepinkmachine wrote:
BaconButty wrote:
Stitch wrote:

That's me told! I didn't know that, a higher MZFW is often a feature of lower MTOW weight variants.


How does that work?

You're probably a single the wrong person, but Ferpe says this about the -900ulr:
By lowering the MZFW, Airbus can regulate the max wing bending moment of the -900ULR to be at the same level as the standard version despite having a higher MTOW. This technique can be seen at work in the different weight variants that Airbus has available for its aircraft. There are higher MTOW variants that have lower MZFW and vice versa.

More explanation here
https://leehamnews.com/2015/10/23/bjorn ... derations/
Down with that sort of thing!
 
thepinkmachine
Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:43 pm

Re: A350 Regional.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:27 pm

Makes sense, thx BB!
"Tell my wife I am trawling Atlantis - and I still have my hands on the wheel…"

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos