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keesje
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Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:12 pm

Over the last few years Airbus developed Space Flex, trading catering for seats by moving lavatories to the bulkhead where galley used to be.

Results is extra revenue seats.

First we saw a Spaceflex v1 implemented from 2014 on some airlines, succeeded by Spaceflex v2 increasing galley space.

Image

Lufthansa seems to have introduced a kind of "V3" with the dual lavatories on the starboard side.
Image

Crew (work area) and passenger (lavatory use) feedback so far has been interesting / alarming, dependent on who pays your salary.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/travel/smaller-airplane-bathrooms-challenges-for-passengers.html?_r=4
https://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2016/12/24/aircraft-toilet-revolt-draws-ever-nearer/

It seems Airbus is pointing to operators "the design was finalized with “validation from airline representatives” so that there has been some buy-in from the stakeholders." Boeing is doing the same with the new small (737/757) lavatories. Doug Alder, a spokesman for Boeing Commercial Airplanes, said that airlines choose their own lavatory, galley and seat arrangements from various suppliers to create optimal use of cabin space.

Operator Delta change their mind/ cabin, giving up seats, as a results of harsh crew / passenger feedback: http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/2015/10/11/delta-removing-seats/

Maybe airlines were blinded by "free" revenue seats and took minimum crew/ customer requirements for granted? Did they even test passenger crew responds?
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LTenEleven
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:45 pm

What is the story with the smaller Boeing 737/757 lavatories? Any pictures anywhere?
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:50 pm

737 " solution" :

Image

Maybe airlines should compromise on the A320 series and settle for:

- bigger lavatories for passengers
- better lavatory access (for disabled),
- a better, separate working area for crew
- extra galley capacity (cards, inserts, stowage)
- additional revenue seats compared to standard A320 configuration
Last edited by keesje on Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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itismarkc
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 12:52 pm

Well as a flight attendant working on a reconfigured 737 with new slimmer toilets and redesigned galley space, it is hell.
The airline is clearly treating its cabin crew and passengers with contempt in doing this
It's all fine if we are simply throwing out coke and pretzels but we do quite an elaborate service and next to no space to do it in
It does get done but all with truckloads of patience and frustration
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:15 pm

The newer lavatories get rid of the counter. The sink instead of being on a counter that run the length of the lavatory are now mounted in the corner. It feels tighter inside, but the newer lavatories are not really that dramatically different when it comes to moving around since the counter was wasted space. Someone will probably refute me, but I think those complaints are perception rather than reality.

Now the problem with having two lavatories and the galley all against the aft wall is a bit harder to deal with. There is no space to set up a cart while passengers use the lavatories. That is why Delta had to remove that configuration. Many A320 galleys have one lavatory on the back wall. Having two really is a squeeze for space if there is a line and any galley service is being done.
 
LTenEleven
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 1:36 pm

Thanks for the photo of the Boeing 737 solution.

What airlines have opted for it?
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:21 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
Thanks for the photo of the Boeing 737 solution.

What airlines have opted for it?


Ryanair will be using this for the MAX200 I hear
Image

Image
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:25 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
The newer lavatories get rid of the counter. The sink instead of being on a counter that run the length of the lavatory are now mounted in the corner. It feels tighter inside, but the newer lavatories are not really that dramatically different when it comes to moving around since the counter was wasted space. Someone will probably refute me, but I think those complaints are perception rather than reality.

Now the problem with having two lavatories and the galley all against the aft wall is a bit harder to deal with. There is no space to set up a cart while passengers use the lavatories. That is why Delta had to remove that configuration. Many A320 galleys have one lavatory on the back wall. Having two really is a squeeze for space if there is a line and any galley service is being done.


I don't think many A320s have 1 lavatory on the bulkhead, never seen it. Old 737's used to have it if I remember well. I think the counter move doesn't influence the fact that the toilet seats now have less width. I'm afraid this isn't about perceptions (as the airlines dearly hope/ say to each other) but about inches and the space a passenger minimal needs.
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:28 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
Thanks for the photo of the Boeing 737 solution.

What airlines have opted for it?


Ryanair will be using this for the MAX200 I hear
Image

Image


Image

That last row of seats must suck. Then again any seat on Ryanair sucks, so...
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:58 pm

I recently flew on D-AIND with LH, a brand new A320Neo and the cabin crew working the back told me it is too cramped -- they're not fans of the new design. I'm not a big guy either, and I found the lavatory shoved into the very back extremely small - more like being inside a tiny closet than a tiny restroom. But hey, as long as they get two extra rows of seats and the CEOs are happy...
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:59 pm

keesje wrote:
Over the last few years Airbus developed Space Flex, trading catering for seats by moving lavatories to the bulkhead where galley used to be.

Results is extra revenue seats.

First we saw a Spaceflex v1 implemented from 2014 on some airlines, succeeded by Spaceflex v2 increasing galley space.

Image

Uuuaaargh, toilet and the galley so close to each other... disgusting.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:02 pm

I see some complains about the 737 "solution" (nothing elegant in my opinon), but the row 32 on Airbus "Space Flex" mode, looks very, very cramped... Both manufacturers are going very far in the name of revenue figures discarding more and more the confort of the passengers. I would invite the CEOs of both companies to travel 4 hours in those seats so they feel in their own flesh the lack of comfort that they are subjecting the passengers every day when they travel in their "solutions"
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:11 pm

Maybe airlines should compromise on the A320 series and settle for a Spaceflex v4:

- bigger lavatories for passengers
- better lavatory access (for disabled),
- a better, separated working area for crew
- extra galley capacity (cards, inserts, stowage)
- additional revenue seats compared to standard A320 configuration

Image
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Theseus
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:30 pm

Newbiepilot wrote:
The newer lavatories get rid of the counter. The sink instead of being on a counter that run the length of the lavatory are now mounted in the corner. It feels tighter inside, but the newer lavatories are not really that dramatically different when it comes to moving around since the counter was wasted space. Someone will probably refute me, but I think those complaints are perception rather than reality.


I have not used this kind of lavatory yet, but fear that I would have a hard time fitting in the one on the side of the fuselage wall: due to the bending shape of the side walls, it must be quite hard for someone a bit tall (I am 6'4") to enter this one, as you can see the shape of the door.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:45 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
Thanks for the photo of the Boeing 737 solution.

What airlines have opted for it?


A reliable source say the 10-15 newest Norwegian (D8) B737-800 have 189 seats and slimline lavatories as they are to be identical to the B737 MAX 8 the airline has on order. The full-wall aft galley is retained as the aircraft are used on charter flights and long flights with lots of buy-on-board sales.
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:50 pm

keesje wrote:
Maybe airlines should compromise on the A320 series and settle for a Spaceflex v4:
- better lavatory access (for disabled),

Wasn't that one core advantage of the new set of toilets that you could combine two small adjacent loos
into one wheelchair accomodating one? I thought that brilliant.

You don't do overnight flights in an NB craft so IMHO you do not need more restroomish facilities.
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:54 pm

The two toilets have to be adjacent because combined they are accessible by disabled passengers.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:59 pm

WIederling wrote:
keesje wrote:
Maybe airlines should compromise on the A320 series and settle for a Spaceflex v4:
- better lavatory access (for disabled),

Wasn't that one core advantage of the new set of toilets that you could combine two small adjacent loos
into one wheelchair accomodating one? I thought that brilliant.

You don't do overnight flights in an NB craft so IMHO you do not need more restroomish facilities.


Oh, really? I would guess you're not living in the U.S. market.

And on those overnight flights, I like to take my contact lenses out for (an attempt at) sleeping. The loss of counter space in the lav. now makes that much more difficult as I don't particularly care to use the toilet lid as a counter when handling contact lenses.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:16 pm

easyJet has these 320s now. Disaster. I could barely fit in the lav, and on both flights the 2nd (left, facing aft) lav was locked by the FAs so they could hang the trash bag from the handle. I couldn't believe it. "Can I use this?" "No sorry sir that lav door is for our trash bins."

Can't wait to see the next step in the race to the bottom.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:24 pm

Passengers love to complain, but not pay for what they are complaining about. When there is buy away due to a poor lavatory. The ULCCs will sell the space as passengers want.

Aircraft have the most expensive 'rent' of any real estate. I'll wait a year or two to see if these galleys go away.

To me this is like long haul narrowbodies, a group doesn't like the trend so makes a bunch of noise.
Passengers love to complain, but not pay for what they are complaining about. When there is buy away due to a poor lavatory.



The 738 MAX solution is interesting. It makes the last row... that much less desirable. Cest la vie. I believe airlines should be ranked by the worst row of seats. :twocents:

Commenting on the larger galley on routes with more BoB:

There is the key, if there are 'lots of buy on board sales', then airlines will retain a full galley as it pays for itself. On the routes that need larger galleys or will pay for them, will receive them.
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:24 pm

WIederling wrote:
keesje wrote:
Maybe airlines should compromise on the A320 series and settle for a Spaceflex v4:
- better lavatory access (for disabled),

Wasn't that one core advantage of the new set of toilets that you could combine two small adjacent loos
into one wheelchair accomodating one? I thought that brilliant.

You don't do overnight flights in an NB craft so IMHO you do not need more restroomish facilities.



We have hundreds of overnight (red eye) flights every day in the US/Canada/Mexico.
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:52 pm

Swiss has already reconfigured their entire A320/321 fleet to this new layout that LH is putting on the NEOs. Its fine for short hops but a nightmare for longer flights like DME, TLV or CAI. Especially as the last row has no window and no recline.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:01 pm

As cabin crew I can't imagine having to deal with sharing the aft galley with two lavs. It must be a nightmare for the crew when attempting to set up their inflight service with people coming and going. And when the service is done, the aft galley is the only place to escape to but now you have absolutely no privacy and no personal space for the staff. It's inhumane in my opinion. I may as well go work in a toll booth...I'd have more room.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:16 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Passengers love to complain, but not pay for what they are complaining about. When there is buy away due to a poor lavatory. The ULCCs will sell the space as passengers want.

Aircraft have the most expensive 'rent' of any real estate. I'll wait a year or two to see if these galleys go away.

To me this is like long haul narrowbodies, a group doesn't like the trend so makes a bunch of noise.
Passengers love to complain, but not pay for what they are complaining about. When there is buy away due to a poor lavatory.



The 738 MAX solution is interesting. It makes the last row... that much less desirable. Cest la vie. I believe airlines should be ranked by the worst row of seats. :twocents:

Commenting on the larger galley on routes with more BoB:

There is the key, if there are 'lots of buy on board sales', then airlines will retain a full galley as it pays for itself. On the routes that need larger galleys or will pay for them, will receive them.


Everybody in Europe is starting to use these kind of setups, so it is not possible to vote with your wallet anymore.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:21 pm

Two years ago I was on a UA 739 EWR-NAS and I used the mid cabin lavatory. This was really tight and the photo above looks exactly the same. This can cause issues if passengers are not fitting into it, but according to Airbus you can convert the two ones into one for "persons with reduced mobility".

http://www.airbus.com/innovation/proven ... in-design/
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:38 pm

lightsaber wrote:
Passengers love to complain, but not pay for what they are complaining about. When there is buy away due to a poor lavatory. The ULCCs will sell the space as passengers want.


I agree with all you say, but I think things are not so simple in the passengers side: do passengers really have the choice ?

I can choose not to fly ULCCs, but it seems LH is adopting this galley configuration, so not really an ULCC... When the majority of passengers do not care (because they look only at price, or travel rarely, or do not know where to look for the info on seat size and such) the equilibrium tends to shift towards the cheapest, least comfortable solution, and after a while the choice is not even there anymore for whoever is still ready to pay a bit more.
I experienced this change in my home airport for some other cabin arrangements that I cannot stand (I will not pronounce the name as this would derail the thread), and in a matter of less than a decade the choices for passengers went from "comfortable solution by default for all airline choices, with a few offering the cheaper, less nice option" to "some airlines compress passengers while others still offer the comfortable solution" and finally to "all reasonable flights (even with a significant detour) feature the less comfortable option, on most routes". Essentially, if 25% of the passengers care for comfort and 75% for price, no airline will stick to the more costly, more comfortable option, as it would immediately cause them to lose 75% of the market, and make them even more expensive.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 5:57 pm

keesje wrote:
I don't think many A320s have 1 lavatory on the bulkhead, never seen it. Old 737's used to have it if I remember well. I think the counter move doesn't influence the fact that the toilet seats now have less width. I'm afraid this isn't about perceptions (as the airlines dearly hope/ say to each other) but about inches and the space a passenger minimal needs.


NZ has an single Lav on the back of its A320D config, (Yes they only have an total of 2 for 171 passengers)!.

First we saw a Spaceflex v1 implemented from 2014 on some airlines, succeeded by Spaceflex v2 increasing galley space.


https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/seat-ma ... -a320-171d

NZ has an been using an early spaceflex concept since 2010 on there Domestic A320
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:01 pm

I don't understand that (at least) on NB aircraft they don't keep the loos at the back and galley at the front. Generally if you need the facilities it is after any service? It would give the cc a much better environment to set up and work their service. Is it an issue with premium pax up front having to walk a few more yards to get to the dunny? Not that it would matter for LCC's. 'Clogging' in the aisle would be no different would it?
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:09 pm

I know it's only me, but when I saw the thred title I expected to see crew and passengers pushing the aircraft back from the stand. :rotfl:
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:12 pm

[quote="lightsaber"


The 738 MAX solution is interesting. It makes the last row... that much less desirable. Cest la vie. I believe airlines should be ranked by the worst row of seats. :twocents:
.[/quote]

Those last rows are very, good for one thing. The obnoxious a$$es that get off on giving ticket counter and gate agents a hard time. You might be surprised at just how often this happens. A passive-aggressive payback for sure but a payback nonetheless.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:18 pm

[quote=And on those overnight flights, I like to take my contact lenses out for (an attempt at) sleeping. The loss of counter space in the lav. now makes that much more difficult as I don't particularly care to use the toilet lid as a counter when handling contact lenses.[/quote]

Seriously? This is an issue? If you can't remove and insert your contacts while at your seat you're doing it wrong.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:23 pm

global2 wrote:
WIederling wrote:
keesje wrote:
Maybe airlines should compromise on the A320 series and settle for a Spaceflex v4:
- better lavatory access (for disabled),

Wasn't that one core advantage of the new set of toilets that you could combine two small adjacent loos
into one wheelchair accomodating one? I thought that brilliant.

You don't do overnight flights in an NB craft so IMHO you do not need more restroomish facilities.


Oh, really? I would guess you're not living in the U.S. market.

And on those overnight flights, I like to take my contact lenses out for (an attempt at) sleeping. The loss of counter space in the lav. now makes that much more difficult as I don't particularly care to use the toilet lid as a counter when handling contact lenses.

I put the changing table down an a barf bag as a liner/table cloth.
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:50 pm

LTenEleven wrote:
Thanks for the photo of the Boeing 737 solution.

What airlines have opted for it?


I think that this is what KLM have in their 737s. At least they have something similar with the "overhang" above the last row. The lavatories are really narrow now. I can't imagine how a large person could use them or how a parent could accompany a small child to the toilet without having to leave the door open!
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:50 pm

I can't remember the last time I flew a domestic or inter-Europe flight where there was any sort of onboard meal service in Y so why is a galley and galley space even required? Just hand in a bottle of water to every passenger as they enter the plane and call it done. Can't people spend 2 hours of their day without drinking a cup of coffee or sugar drink? Same goes for using the lav. It should be for "emergencies" only so I have no problem with the smaller size. Just wait until you land.
Yes i understand that there are longer segments, but it's up to the airlines to schedule a different aircraft for the longer segments.
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:00 pm

On a sanitary level, I really dislike Airbus' solution of having the galley that close to the lavatory.
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:03 pm

I think airlines should be upfront and honest in communicating to passengers they are allowed to use new mini lavatories only, if that's the case. Regardless of their fare, size or whatever. It gives consumers a free choice before booking. Can we not help airlines and consumers by making that mandatory? Everybody happy, yes?
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zkncj
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:08 pm

airbazar wrote:
I can't remember the last time I flew a domestic or inter-Europe flight where there was any sort of onboard meal service in Y so why is a galley and galley space even required? Just hand in a bottle of water to every passenger as they enter the plane and call it done. Can't people spend 2 hours of their day without drinking a cup of coffee or sugar drink? Same goes for using the lav. It should be for "emergencies" only so I have no problem with the smaller size. Just wait until you land.



Galleys house important space for Buy on Board Products, which earn the airline extra revenue while the bathrooms are an expense to the airline. An Tea/Coffee service on an typically A320 service only takes up one trolley space, along with an either a couple of brewing machines or hot water taps. Depending on airline it also houses other equipment e.g. first aid kids, cleaning supplies etc.


Yes i understand that there are longer segments, but it's up to the airlines to schedule a different aircraft for the longer segments.


You do know its common to use an 320/738 on 3-5hour sectors over water? e.g. Intl Flights
 
zkncj
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:09 pm

keesje wrote:
I think airlines should be upfront and honest in communicating to passengers they are allowed to use new mini lavatories only, if that's the case. Regardless of their fare, size or whatever. It gives consumers a free choice before booking. Can we not help airlines and consumers by making that mandatory? Everybody happy, yes?


Can't fit in an Lav? then maybe they shouldn't be booking an Y Class seat after all an Y seat is still smaller.
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:18 pm

Aircellist wrote:
On a sanitary level, I really dislike Airbus' solution of having the galley that close to the lavatory.


Hard to avoid it seems. Southwest Airlines has been doing it for decades..

Zkjnc:
Can't fit in an Lav? then maybe they shouldn't be booking an Y Class seat after all an Y seat is still smaller
.

If you then get acces to a normal lavatory that would be an idea. All in for transparency & value for money!
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:25 pm

Flaps wrote:
global2 wrote:
And on those overnight flights, I like to take my contact lenses out for (an attempt at) sleeping. The loss of counter space in the lav. now makes that much more difficult as I don't particularly care to use the toilet lid as a counter when handling contact lenses.


Seriously? This is an issue? If you can't remove and insert your contacts while at your seat you're doing it wrong.


You're supposed to wash your hands before handling contacts; especially if they're not daily disposable ones, so not doing it in a toilet can be impractical. And before anyone suggests using an an alcohol hand gel - they burn!
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:27 pm

As someone who is 6'5" and 180lbs I had a hell of a time squeezing into the space saver lavs!! I almost got stuck during a sudden bout of turbulence and I felt like a dice in a Yahtzee cup! I can only imagine how someone who is slightly heavier might feel. Whatever happened the glory days of flying?!
 
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:01 pm

MBSDALHOU wrote:
As someone who is 6'5" and 180lbs I had a hell of a time squeezing into the space saver lavs!! I almost got stuck during a sudden bout of turbulence and I felt like a dice in a Yahtzee cup! I can only imagine how someone who is slightly heavier might feel. Whatever happened the glory days of flying?!

Last year I peer reviewed prospective passenger and employee research, presumably undertaken by a prospective customer considering acquisition versus the status quo.

One stated manufacturer benefit of the compact option was occupant security.

One employee criticism was it's impossible to change an item of clothing inflight (for instance, due to a spill or customer throwing up on them). To change, they would have to have crew hold up a blanket, and change in the galley.

Prospective passenger feedback was interesting. Multiple commented it would discourage over weight passengers and crew, and those flying with young children. Some saw those as positive features (though a few expressed concerns that 'in cabin' baby and young child toileting would become more common). Some passengers were willing to trade less space for more toilets. The view of passengers who were potentially overweight or obese was predictably more negative as weight, profile and height increased.

I cut out a template of the profiles at the narrowest point. I'm vertically and horizontally challenged, and even I would find turning interesting. Bigger passengers would need to back in.
 
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rotating14
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:02 pm

keesje wrote:
I think airlines should be upfront and honest


Don't hold your breath. Airlines like Ryanair and others like them are more interested in making money on each extra thing they can charge for. From their perspective it's a 1-2 minute inconvenience on a __ hour flight.

We've flown enough to know that airlines don't disclose the dimensions of the lavatories nor anything else like it. I hate to sound like a "know it all" but airlines owe you a seat. There's nothing that airlines are hiding to say they're lying or hiding something.
 
Swadian
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:37 pm

Which US airlines are using these?
 
YVRing
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 8:57 pm

How about a normal sized lav I can pay to use :) Just tap my credit card on the card reader outside and the door unlocks. Tap when I leave and I pay based on the time inside. Cuts down on lines and incentivizes airlines to leave an option for larger people.
 
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keesje
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:29 pm

we might as well start a list of airlines that decided to fit in more seats at the cost of lavatory space. I heard they are scanning social media 24/7 for this kind of issues to neutralize (generalize, distract, play down, mislead) ASAP. See if we can tear apart the Q&A of the young customer service agents on duty. :stirthepot:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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Ty134A
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:33 pm

HHScot wrote:
LTenEleven wrote:
Thanks for the photo of the Boeing 737 solution.

What airlines have opted for it?


I think that this is what KLM have in their 737s. At least they have something similar with the "overhang" above the last row. The lavatories are really narrow now. I can't imagine how a large person could use them or how a parent could accompany a small child to the toilet without having to leave the door open!


I flew KL not too long ago, it was XA, the retro B737-800. I was surprised, on the one hand, the 737 looked also VERY retro inside, and the seats felt MUCH tighter than on FR, on the other hand their service was brilliant. Crews were friendly and they offered a sandwich, and even spirits. So in the end I felt that inner EU KL was not as good as RO, but still way better than any LH group airline.

Actually I wanted to go on a Cityhopper F70, and that was the biggest surprise of all... great seats, wonderful crews and the same service level. A shame they get rid of this wonderful airliner!!!

So currently to me the most interesting eco product in the EU is offered by RO... and the lavs are decent there, and the flight attendants have space to do their work. For those in need of a great flying experience - go for RO. FR already aims at destroying it... but hey, that's the free market!
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VS11
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:50 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
I know it's only me, but when I saw the thred title I expected to see crew and passengers pushing the aircraft back from the stand. :rotfl:


No, it is not only you :-) . When I started reading about lavs and galleys I had to reread the title...:-)
 
zkncj
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:36 pm

keesje wrote:
we might as well start a list of airlines that decided to fit in more seats at the cost of lavatory space. I heard they are scanning social media 24/7 for this kind of issues to neutralize (generalize, distract, play down, mislead) ASAP. See if we can tear apart the Q&A of the young customer service agents on duty. :stirthepot:


Some have done it to give passengers more leg room! rather than adding additional rows of seats.

For example on NZ A320D Model they only have 29 rows with an total of 171 seats. Which enabled them to have an 34-35" seat pitch for rows 1-12 as an free of charge frequent flyer perk. We're as 13-29 are only 30-31" pitch,
 
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Aesma
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Re: Airbus A320 Space flex, passenger / crew push back

Mon Jan 02, 2017 11:42 pm

I mostly fly short and medium haul and have used an airline lavatory maybe two or three times. When I look at the central lavatory in the first picture, well, there is no way I can do my business there, the toilet on my father's small sailboat looks bigger.
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