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Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:00 pm
by Miami
Representatives of Miami International Airport recently met with Hainan Airlines about a possible new nonstop flight, according to a source.

At the September meeting, Hainan officials said that Miami was a top route that they were considering, and that they would be studying the possibility of adding it.



MIA is also quietly working with other Asian carriers, including Hainan rival Cathay Pacific. The company wants a Hong Kong-Canada air bilateral amended so that the airline can add a Hong Kong-Vancouver-Miami route.


http://www.thenextmiami.com/hainan-airl ... ina-miami/


Thoughts?


-Miami

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:18 pm
by KTPAFlyer
MIA-YVR on CX? Sign me up! Looks like they're building a mini hub at YVR, offering JFK, HKG, and possibly MIA! Definitely a smart move to grab both short and long haul traffic!

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:23 pm
by VCEflyboy
I don't understand. CX could fly HKG YVR MIA tomorrow. They just wouldn't be able to sell the tickets between YVR and MIA which anyways would sell for peanuts because the route is not premium heavy and there's lots of competition with one-stop options. YVR could be a good tech stop. I don't see why the bilateral needs revising.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:26 pm
by zeke
Miami wrote:

Thoughts?
-Miami


CX has publicly stated that MIA is being evaluated. The current A350-900 is capable of HKG-MIA-HKG, very similar to the SQ SIN-SFO-SIN flight time. I would expect to CX to also evaluate A350s goign to Barcelona, Milan and Zurich, Washington DC, Seattle, Honolulu, Dallas/Houston, Denver, and Atlanta.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... i-non-stop
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/busines ... 34607.html

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:33 pm
by MAH4546
VCEflyboy wrote:
I don't understand. CX could fly HKG YVR MIA tomorrow. They just wouldn't be able to sell the tickets between YVR and MIA which anyways would sell for peanuts because the route is not premium heavy and there's lots of competition with one-stop options. YVR could be a good tech stop. I don't see why the bilateral needs revising.


Not being able to sell tickets on the local sector is a deal breaker, especially for a route of that length.

And Miami-Vancouver does happen to be the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:39 pm
by TC957
zeke wrote:
Miami wrote:

Thoughts?
-Miami


CX has publicly stated that MIA is being evaluated. The current A350-900 is capable of HKG-MIA-HKG, very similar to the SQ SIN-SFO-SIN flight time. I would expect to CX to also evaluate A350s goign to Barcelona, Milan and Zurich, Washington DC, Seattle, Honolulu, Dallas/Houston, Denver, and Atlanta.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... i-non-stop
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/busines ... 34607.html

MIA-HKG is over 500 miles further than SFO-SIN, so well into ULR territory.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:46 pm
by gatibosgru
New year, new Miami-Asia rumors :D

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:56 pm
by zeke
TC957 wrote:
MIA-HKG is over 500 miles further than SFO-SIN, so well into ULR territory.


They both are ULH, the distance is less than 500 nm. Flight time difference is around 20 minutes with normal winds.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:34 pm
by SCQ83
I wonder what it will be for Hainan. PEK, PVG or both with a "weekly mix" (3xw for one and 4xw for the other one) like in BOS?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:45 pm
by Swadian
I doubt CX is trying to launch HKG-MIA nonstop.

How about trying HKG-YYZ-MIA?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:50 pm
by Miami
Swadian wrote:
I doubt CX is trying to launch HKG-MIA nonstop.

How about trying HKG-YYZ-MIA?


Look at the opening post. That's what they want.

Edit: Misread it. Thought it said YVR. My apologizes. But still, they want to fly the route with a stop.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:54 pm
by KTPAFlyer
Swadian wrote:
I doubt CX is trying to launch HKG-MIA nonstop.

How about trying HKG-YYZ-MIA?


Yes, but CX isn't stupid to pass up an opportunity to be the first to start it if they can justify it.

MAH4546 wrote:
And Miami-Vancouver does happen to be the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:58 pm
by KTPAFlyer
Miami wrote:
Swadian wrote:
I doubt CX is trying to launch HKG-MIA nonstop.

How about trying HKG-YYZ-MIA?


Look what the opening post. That's what they want.


CX already serves both YYZ and YVR. If you have to pick one to continue to MIA, it makes sense to start an unserved route, read: YVR, but hey that's just me.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:01 pm
by TheLion
Ahaha great thread! #StirThatPot

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:02 pm
by Miami
KTPAFlyer wrote:


it makes sense to start an unserved route, read: YVR, but hey that's just me.


Exactly. Just like MAH4546 said: "Miami-Vancouver does happen to be the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop."

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:06 pm
by steex
Miami wrote:
Exactly. Just like MAH4546 said: "Miami-Vancouver does happen to be the single largest U.S.-Canada market without a non-stop."


Plus, CX has already established itself as being more than just a HKG carrier on the YVR end with long-running YVR-JFK service. The number of Hong Kongers in Vancouver also helps their case. YVR-MIA looks a lot more lucrative than just being another of the many carriers on YYZ-South Florida.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:21 pm
by flymia
An interesting side note, Hainan does have a job opening posted for the Miami as a purchasing department manager. Whether that is just for MRO/Supplies already done in Miami now I don't know.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:21 pm
by Skywatcher
How did YYZ get into this?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:25 pm
by jbpdx
If CX can sell tickets from JFK-YVR, why couldn't they sell MIA-YVR?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:29 pm
by AF022
MIA is very aggressive with trying to capture new airlines and I regularly see "rumors" about new airlines to MIA which never happen.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:30 pm
by usflyer123
Seems like Hainan is perfect fot MIA-PEK with the 787! The biggest Asian market from Miami is China? Or maybe Japan?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:30 pm
by MaxTrimm
gatibosgru wrote:
New year, new Miami-Asia rumors :D

*same Miami-Asia rumors. :)
But in all honesty, if an airline is going to break in to the Miami-Asia market, this would be the year.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:34 pm
by peterj324
Weirder routes have started in recent years but I'm not optimistic about MIA-China. Very weak demand that is easily served via LAX SFO or DFW. If there was to be an Asia to MIA nonstop I would bet money on it being JAL MIA-NRT/HND because of better connections on both ends with AA and JAL.

As for CX they have been evaluating many destinations in the U.S. and Europe as previously mentioned such as SEA IAD MXP etc so talks with MIA don't mean a route is imminent. CX also is not planning much expansions due to rapidly falling profit forecasts so starting a risky ULH flight to MIA is not a good idea for them.

Again crazier things have happened, And like everyone on this thread I have no insider information.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:02 pm
by adamh8297
peterj324 wrote:
Weirder routes have started in recent years but I'm not optimistic about MIA-China. Very weak demand that is easily served via LAX SFO or DFW.


HU is perfect for MIA: 787-9's, Proven track record on filling seats on North American routes, an OK reputation.

HU MIA-PEK would take feed from all of its Chinese destinations. Its not open skies - and with CAAC's one route one airline policy - an airline like HU has to take what it can get and would feed AA in MIA most likely.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:03 pm
by Miami
AF022 wrote:
MIA is very aggressive with trying to capture new airlines and I regularly see "rumors" about new airlines to MIA which never happen.


Name a few, if you don't mind.

They went after Aer Lingus, KLM, and Turkish and got them.

peterj324 wrote:
If there was to be an Asia to MIA nonstop I would bet money on it being JAL MIA-NRT/HND because of better connections on both ends with AA and JAL.

You'd be surprised. ANA has visited MIA numerous times last year so it's safe to say they have more interest than JAL.

peterj324 wrote:
like everyone on this thread I have no insider information.

Again, you'd be surprised. There's many people on airliners who do have "insider information". *cough* ;)

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:13 pm
by lavalampluva
IMO that's too long of a time to spend in an airplane.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:16 pm
by MAH4546
jbpdx wrote:
If CX can sell tickets from JFK-YVR, why couldn't they sell MIA-YVR?


Because Hong Kong carriers are only allowed to fly seven weekly U.S.-Canada frequencies, and Cathay uses those for JFK-YVR.

AF022 wrote:
MIA is very aggressive with trying to capture new airlines and I regularly see "rumors" about new airlines to MIA which never happen.


Are you referring to the rumors of KLM, Turkish, Aer Lingus, Emirates (granted, ended up at FLL), SAS and LOT?

peterj324 wrote:
Weirder routes have started in recent years but I'm not optimistic about MIA-China. Very weak demand that is easily served via LAX SFO or DFW. If there was to be an Asia to MIA nonstop I would bet money on it being JAL MIA-NRT/HND because of better connections on both ends with AA and JAL..


Miami-China isn't that small. It's 85 PDEW+ (excluding Hong Kong) and growing briskly.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:29 pm
by peterj324
Miami wrote:
AF022 wrote:
MIA is very aggressive with trying to capture new airlines and I regularly see "rumors" about new airlines to MIA which never happen.


Name a few, if you don't mind.

They went after Aer Lingus KLM, and Turkish and got them.

peterj324 wrote:
If there was to be an Asia to MIA nonstop I would bet money on it being JAL MIA-NRT/HND because of better connections on both ends with AA and JAL.

You'd be surprised. ANA has visited MIA numerous times last year so it's safe to say they have more interest than JAL.

peterj324 wrote:
like everyone on this thread I have no insider information.

Again, you'd be surprised. There's many people on airliners who do have "insider information". *cough* ;)


You do spread rumors frequently about airlines meeting with MIA officials such as JAL China airlines El Al and LOT in your South Florida aviation thread and individual threads although you never claim they will imminently start service. I often believe you when it comes to rumors like these because you have a decent track record but you have to understand that all your rumors that don't end up panning out damage your reputation in the eyes of most members in these MIA threads.

I must ask: Are you an employee of the airport?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:41 pm
by Miami
peterj324 wrote:
Miami wrote:
AF022 wrote:
MIA is very aggressive with trying to capture new airlines and I regularly see "rumors" about new airlines to MIA which never happen.


Name a few, if you don't mind.

They went after Aer Lingus KLM, and Turkish and got them.

peterj324 wrote:
If there was to be an Asia to MIA nonstop I would bet money on it being JAL MIA-NRT/HND because of better connections on both ends with AA and JAL.

You'd be surprised. ANA has visited MIA numerous times last year so it's safe to say they have more interest than JAL.

peterj324 wrote:

You do spread rumors frequently about airlines meeting with MIA officials such as JAL China airlines El Al and LOT in your South Florida aviation thread and individual threads although you never claim they will imminently start service. I often believe you when it comes to rumors like these because you have a decent track record but you have to understand that all your rumors that don't end up panning out damage your reputation in the eyes of most members in these MIA threads.


I get that my reputation is a stake but I can't do nothing about it if the airlines decides not to come at the very last second. I try my best to talk about it when I know for a fact it's about a done deal.

I've been right numerous of times (about Turkish, Aer Lingus, KLM, and a few to FLL). Most are rumors roaming around the airport but I was right about a lot of airlines because I knew of it. I don't make things up.

I've been bashed over the same one over and over and that was SAA. But guess what? I was right about them wanting to come with an announcement coming but they decided not to announce it last minute.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:01 pm
by KTPAFlyer
The thing I'm a bit confused about is how much these guys going off AA/oneworld connections vs O/D on both sides. Whoever launches this MIA-Asia flight will be the only one for a while until others gauge how much of a success (or failure) it was. That said, the only other real option in the southeastern US currently is DL/KE at ATL. However, the KE flight is targeted at O/D while the DL flight captures the connections. If a MIA flight were to launch, only JAL and CX have any incentive to launch Florida for AA's hub at MIA, with JAL's interest appearing to be virtually nonexistent (possibly to ANA's advantage). If ANA does it, they could pull another EK style move and sidestep to MCO, simply because they know it is only a matter of time before either JAL or CX strikes MIA (albeit, QR came first in this scenario, but my point is the same). Additionally, before the EK/FLL flight, EK/MCO had a huge catchment area of virtually the entire mid to upper region of Florida, even with QR at MIA. While it is true that CX may be looking at MIA, if ANA pulls the trigger first, MIA may be a riskier move for CX. If CX comes first, vice versa. But this is all speculation :D

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:12 pm
by RL777
I wouldn't complain about having another CX routing through YVR however to me it seems unlikely, YVR-Florida traffic in general isn't very good hence the fact there is currently zero direct services to anywhere in Florida. If WestJet has passed along with Rouge then I'd have a tough time imagining CX wanting a stop unless there is good cargo revenue to be made. The current A359 and 77W can do HKG-MIA nonstop albeit payload restricted, it'll be interesting to see if this develops into anything or if it turns out to stay a typical MIA rumour for the time being.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:01 am
by YVRing
Don't they already fly cargo to MIA? I wonder if HKG-YVR-MIA would let them take pax on a route they are already flying for cargo. I know it's more complicated than that with cabin crews, etc but it may help make the route more viable. They are adding an extra three weekly flights to YVR in the summer. They could have some of their weekly flights continue on to MIA. That way those flights can take pax and cargo to YVR where some pax will get off and some pax can board to continue on to MIA with a higher pax and cargo load than would be possible if flying directly.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:07 am
by MAH4546
RL777 wrote:
I wouldn't complain about having another CX routing through YVR however to me it seems unlikely, YVR-Florida traffic in general isn't very good hence the fact there is currently zero direct services to anywhere in Florida. If WestJet has passed along with Rouge then I'd have a tough time imagining CX wanting a stop unless there is good cargo revenue to be made. The current A359 and 77W can do HKG-MIA nonstop albeit payload restricted, it'll be interesting to see if this develops into anything or if it turns out to stay a typical MIA rumour for the time being.


YVR has non-stops to Orlando on WestJet and while I'm sure the yield is only so-so, the market is very large (and larger to South Florida than Orlando). And if it becomes the "typical MIA rumor," that just indicates your belief it's going to happen, since most of them do. Unless you meant to say something else?

I think China service this decade is inevitable, but not too optimistic about Cathay until they can pull it off non-stop.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:36 am
by RL777
MAH4546 wrote:
RL777 wrote:
I wouldn't complain about having another CX routing through YVR however to me it seems unlikely, YVR-Florida traffic in general isn't very good hence the fact there is currently zero direct services to anywhere in Florida. If WestJet has passed along with Rouge then I'd have a tough time imagining CX wanting a stop unless there is good cargo revenue to be made. The current A359 and 77W can do HKG-MIA nonstop albeit payload restricted, it'll be interesting to see if this develops into anything or if it turns out to stay a typical MIA rumour for the time being.


YVR has non-stops to Orlando on WestJet and while I'm sure the yield is only so-so, the market is very large (and larger to South Florida than Orlando). And if it becomes the "typical MIA rumor," that just indicates your belief it's going to happen, since most of them do. Unless you meant to say something else?

I think China service this decade is inevitable, but not too optimistic about Cathay until they can pull it off non-stop.


Forgive me if I'm wrong, but all WestJet flights to MCO from YVR either stop in YEG or YYZ.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:53 am
by YVRing
I think they have a seasonal direct that's a red eye.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:12 am
by jbpdx
YVRing wrote:
Don't they already fly cargo to MIA? I wonder if HKG-YVR-MIA would let them take pax on a route they are already flying for cargo. I know it's more complicated than that with cabin crews, etc but it may help make the route more viable. They are adding an extra three weekly flights to YVR in the summer. They could have some of their weekly flights continue on to MIA. That way those flights can take pax and cargo to YVR where some pax will get off and some pax can board to continue on to MIA with a higher pax and cargo load than would be possible if flying directly.


MAH4546 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
If CX can sell tickets from JFK-YVR, why couldn't they sell MIA-YVR?


Because Hong Kong carriers are only allowed to fly seven weekly U.S.-Canada frequencies, and Cathay uses those for JFK-YVR.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:40 am
by globalcabotage
If MIA is offering incentives for flights, it's their money and if it works, great! Here at DFW, incentives have worked and stimulated traffic. BOS has done a great job too.

JFK, LAX, and SFO don't have to offer as carriers are looking for flights there.

ORD, on the other hand, wants more flights, and finally is adding new Int'l gates, but years away. What incentives do they have, if any?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:49 am
by LAX772LR
Would be interesting to see if this is what eventually catalyzes AA/JL to offer an East Asian nonstop from MIA



lavalampluva wrote:
IMO that's too long of a time to spend in an airplane.

...not much alternative for people who need to get from one long distance point to another in the most efficient time possible.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:09 am
by 787fan8
Does anyone happen to have any PDEW statistics between MIA and East Asia?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:58 am
by YYZflyboy
I'm surprised no one has mentioned about the cruise ship industry. First, there are many executives (read: Carnival cruise lines) based in Miami (and most likely AA Platinum or Admiral's Club), who would love to fly a 5-star airline like Cathay to Vancouver (which is another major cruise port in the Pacific Northwest, particularly Alaska) and top up their FF statuses. Hong Kong is also a popular cruise line embarkation point, especially for Asia-Pacific cruise lines.

Second, many of the front-line workers for the cruise lines are from ASEAN countries like Phillipines and Indonesia, which are huge markets for Cathay. Going to Manila/Jakarta/Cebu/Bali from Miami would take two stops (or more) anyway, but despite that, it is flight duration-competitive with EK's MCO and QR's MIA one stop services (which have 7-9 hour layovers in DXB and DOH).

Third, although YVR-JFK does not use US-preclearance, if YVR-MIA does, it would be another huge advantage for Cathay operations - quicker turnaround time in Miami.

Last, but not least, feed from Latin America (from LATAM and AA) in Miami could make this flight work out.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:01 am
by winginit
adamh8297 wrote:
peterj324 wrote:
an airline like HU has to take what it can get and would feed AA in MIA most likely.


Zero chance AA would support either HU or CX in allowing flow access behind or beyond MIA - MIA is simply too key a flow point from other TPAC hubs to allow a non-JV partner access. That being the case, unless it's JL any Asian carrier keen to start MIA shouldn't factor in the benefit of any AA flow - a route killer in and of itself.

I doubt a Hong Kong/China/Japan nonstop or tag to MIA is announced this year... again...

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:20 pm
by airbazar
VCEflyboy wrote:
I don't understand. CX could fly HKG YVR MIA tomorrow. They just wouldn't be able to sell the tickets between YVR and MIA which anyways would sell for peanuts because the route is not premium heavy and there's lots of competition with one-stop options. YVR could be a good tech stop. I don't see why the bilateral needs revising.

My guess is that the HKG-MIA market is not large enough to operate without the YVR-MIA market, even if it's a low yield market. The fact that they want to start this as a 1-stop rather than non-stop tells me that they are not very confident in the strength of the O&D market alone between HKG and MIA.
TC957 wrote:
MIA-HKG is over 500 miles further than SFO-SIN, so well into ULR territory.

But it's a polar route. What matters is the flight time, more than the distance in this case. Especially in Winter, SFO-SIN is likely to be just as long, if not longer than MIA-HKG.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:36 pm
by keitherson
Considering AC/CX just launched a strategic partnership together, things are looking very good for the YVR-MIA launch. This would make perfect timing with the launch of the A350 for the third HKG-YVR daily.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:38 pm
by clrd4t8koff
keitherson wrote:
Considering AC/CX just launched a strategic partnership together, things are looking very good for the YVR-MIA launch. This would make perfect timing with the launch of the A350 for the third HKG-YVR daily.


That might be true, but why would CX send a widebody from YVR-MIA when AC could just send an A319/A320 much more economically and connect them to the CX YVR-HKG flight?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:27 pm
by CX Flyboy
clrd4t8koff wrote:
keitherson wrote:
Considering AC/CX just launched a strategic partnership together, things are looking very good for the YVR-MIA launch. This would make perfect timing with the launch of the A350 for the third HKG-YVR daily.


That might be true, but why would CX send a widebody from YVR-MIA when AC could just send an A319/A320 much more economically and connect them to the CX YVR-HKG flight?


Same reason CX use a 77W between YVR-JFK?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:05 pm
by airbazar
CX Flyboy wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:
keitherson wrote:
Considering AC/CX just launched a strategic partnership together, things are looking very good for the YVR-MIA launch. This would make perfect timing with the launch of the A350 for the third HKG-YVR daily.


That might be true, but why would CX send a widebody from YVR-MIA when AC could just send an A319/A320 much more economically and connect them to the CX YVR-HKG flight?


Same reason CX use a 77W between YVR-JFK?

Not really. MIA is not JFK. The YVR stop on the HKG-JFK route was always a glorified tech stop. CX doesn't need the YVR stop to make HKG-JFK a successful route but apparently they need it to make HKG-MIA work.

So here's my question: If they're only allowed 7 weekly frequencies, why not replace the JFK stop with a MIA stop?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:12 pm
by Miami
airbazar wrote:

So here's my question: If they're only allowed 7 weekly frequencies, why not replace the JFK stop with a MIA stop?


That's what they're more than likely to do. If they want that, they know what to do.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:21 pm
by MAH4546
airbazar wrote:
CX Flyboy wrote:
clrd4t8koff wrote:

That might be true, but why would CX send a widebody from YVR-MIA when AC could just send an A319/A320 much more economically and connect them to the CX YVR-HKG flight?


Same reason CX use a 77W between YVR-JFK?

Not really. MIA is not JFK. The YVR stop on the HKG-JFK route was always a glorified tech stop. CX doesn't need the YVR stop to make HKG-JFK a successful route but apparently they need it to make HKG-MIA work.

So here's my question: If they're only allowed 7 weekly frequencies, why not replace the JFK stop with a MIA stop?


Cathay Pacific is long established in the JFK-YVR market, has a very loyal following and a monopoly on the route. I think they are happy flying it - they have flown it for maybe 20+ years now, and even all the additional non-stop capacity to JFK and EWR hasn't led to it being discontinued.

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:21 pm
by Swadian
keitherson wrote:
Considering AC/CX just launched a strategic partnership together, things are looking very good for the YVR-MIA launch. This would make perfect timing with the launch of the A350 for the third HKG-YVR daily.


Didn't someone say CX is only allowed 7x weekly US-Canada frequencies? In that case, unless the rules change, would CX drop HKG-YVR-JFK and replace it with HKG-YVR-MIA? Not likely IMO. They are established in the JFK-YVR market more so than MIA-YVR.

So then are we debating a non-stop HKG-MIA?

Re: Cathay Pacific and Hainan Considering Miami

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:14 am
by keitherson
clrd4t8koff wrote:
keitherson wrote:
Considering AC/CX just launched a strategic partnership together, things are looking very good for the YVR-MIA launch. This would make perfect timing with the launch of the A350 for the third HKG-YVR daily.


That might be true, but why would CX send a widebody from YVR-MIA when AC could just send an A319/A320 much more economically and connect them to the CX YVR-HKG flight?

The A320 cannot handle YVR-MIA nonstop. Even Virgin America's A320s struggle with JFK-SFO/LAX: this winter there have been nearly weekly diversions on the westbound flights. Even for YVR-EWR AC flies a 787 as part of a utilization run.
Swadian wrote:
keitherson wrote:
Considering AC/CX just launched a strategic partnership together, things are looking very good for the YVR-MIA launch. This would make perfect timing with the launch of the A350 for the third HKG-YVR daily.


Didn't someone say CX is only allowed 7x weekly US-Canada frequencies? In that case, unless the rules change, would CX drop HKG-YVR-JFK and replace it with HKG-YVR-MIA? Not likely IMO. They are established in the JFK-YVR market more so than MIA-YVR.

So then are we debating a non-stop HKG-MIA?

Because the bilaterals can be changed, especially if CX has AC's support.