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Vctony
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Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:39 pm

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer twitter:

https://twitter.com/Enquirer?ref_src=tw ... r%5Eauthor

Per my source in the Cincinnati local media the press conference is today at 3:00 p.m.
Last edited by Vctony on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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b727fa
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Re: Southwest announces CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:45 pm

Nothing on @CVGairport or the cvgairport.com regarding announcement or press conference. The Enquirer is reporting it, though. Hmmmmm...
Not saying OP is wrong, but I was just adding what I saw. Other sources affirm OP.
Last edited by b727fa on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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commavia
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:45 pm

Not that surprising - CVG was one of the few remaining, relatively large U.S. domestic markets without a Southwest presence. The two most obvious routes - both for O&D and connectivity - seem to be MDW and BWI, plus probably some or all of DEN, LAS and PHX and probably at least 1-2 markets in Florida. It will be interesting to see what impact Southwest's entrance has in the CVG market, and in particular on some of the smaller, more marginal RJ markets Delta has been maintaining out of the airport.
 
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enilria
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:54 pm

I don't see how they keep DAY if this happens. If they are closing DAY, they are probably closing multiple stations since that is how WN usually operates. That would mean that CAK/FNT and maybe ICT/GSP or others are also at risk of closure.

Then again, it might all just be a rumor...
 
lowfareair
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:02 pm

enilria wrote:
I don't see how they keep DAY if this happens.


Why not? WN started BOS and still has MHT/PVD, started FLL and still has PBI, started LGA and still has ISP, started DCA and still has IAD, and kept CLE & CAK after the FL merger. All are closer than DAY is to Cincy proper. Service levels may have changed, but station eliminations are not a guarantee.
 
ERAU Pilot
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:03 pm

It's confirmed, they are pulling out of Dayton.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/business ... ZilSULMIM/
 
mtnwest1979
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:09 pm

Well I guess I better add DAY to my list of stations visited before it ends. Then FNT GSP CRP just to cover my bases lol.
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compensateme
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:11 pm

enilria wrote:
I don't see how they keep DAY if this happens. If they are closing DAY, they are probably closing multiple stations since that is how WN usually operates. That would mean that CAK/FNT and maybe ICT/GSP or others are also at risk of closure.

Then again, it might all just be a rumor...


It's not a rumor.

It'll be interesting if WN cuts additional stations beyond DAY. Since the schedule transition last spring, FNT has managed LF in the high 50s/low 60s - definitely not sustainable. Although I wouldn't have anticipated any cuts until after the summer season.
Last edited by compensateme on Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:12 pm

commavia wrote:
Not that surprising - CVG was one of the few remaining, relatively large U.S. domestic markets without a Southwest presence. The two most obvious routes - both for O&D and connectivity - seem to be MDW and BWI, plus probably some or all of DEN, LAS and PHX and probably at least 1-2 markets in Florida. It will be interesting to see what impact Southwest's entrance has in the CVG market, and in particular on some of the smaller, more marginal RJ markets Delta has been maintaining out of the airport.


I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.
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FlyPNS1
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:16 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.


I doubt WN will launch BOS/DCA/LAS from CVG. The only cities that seem likely are MDW, BWI, MCO/FLL/TPA, HOU, DEN and maybe LAS. I guess STL or PHX are possibilities.
 
flyguy89
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:23 pm

Image

I can't tell you how long myself and many others have been waiting for this. I hate the idea of dancing on DAY's grave here, but this truly exciting for the Cincinnati area!

Cubsrule wrote:
commavia wrote:
Not that surprising - CVG was one of the few remaining, relatively large U.S. domestic markets without a Southwest presence. The two most obvious routes - both for O&D and connectivity - seem to be MDW and BWI, plus probably some or all of DEN, LAS and PHX and probably at least 1-2 markets in Florida. It will be interesting to see what impact Southwest's entrance has in the CVG market, and in particular on some of the smaller, more marginal RJ markets Delta has been maintaining out of the airport.


I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.

They are definitely late to the party and will have a bit of work to do to stake out a position at CVG with F9 and G4 pretty well entrenched at this point...but I could see BWI, MCO, MDW, BOS and DAL and decent initial choices.
 
Meltshopmax
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:25 pm

Ive been hearing this for some time. Delta is a shadow of its former self in Cvg and the lease on B concourse is up in 2020. I could easily see delta using this to get out of the lease at least for the east end of B. If they come into A it will stretch the bridges pretty thin.
 
seatback
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:31 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
commavia wrote:
Not that surprising - CVG was one of the few remaining, relatively large U.S. domestic markets without a Southwest presence. The two most obvious routes - both for O&D and connectivity - seem to be MDW and BWI, plus probably some or all of DEN, LAS and PHX and probably at least 1-2 markets in Florida. It will be interesting to see what impact Southwest's entrance has in the CVG market, and in particular on some of the smaller, more marginal RJ markets Delta has been maintaining out of the airport.


I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.


Delta won't care, no more so than if they go to Dallas and AA responds. I think CVG has the potential to do really well for Southwest to all the aforementioned markets, but I would add DAL to the list and possibly OAK. Two questions, will they take gates on the A concourse (getting a little crowded, I think), and will this motivate Delta to finally close CVG as a hub?
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:32 pm

mtnwest1979 wrote:
Well I guess I better add DAY to my list of stations visited before it ends. Then FNT GSP CRP just to cover my bases lol.


Believe me, you aren't missing much. You can run from one side to the other without getting out of breath.

I'm glad to see them moving into a larger station, but I'm sad to see DAY go! While the airport is small and there isn't much to it, it was so easy to get through. You can literally check your bag and get through security in less than 10 minutes. It's convenient. However, CVG is going to be a big step for them.

I wonder if this will affect G4 at CVG now?
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mtnwest1979
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:34 pm

....and I guess I am glad I have already been to CAK.
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enilria
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:39 pm

lowfareair wrote:
enilria wrote:
I don't see how they keep DAY if this happens.


Why not? WN started BOS and still has MHT/PVD, started FLL and still has PBI, started LGA and still has ISP, started DCA and still has IAD, and kept CLE & CAK after the FL merger. All are closer than DAY is to Cincy proper. Service levels may have changed, but station eliminations are not a guarantee.

Possibly shortest ever time to be proven right about my WN speculation!
compensateme wrote:
It's not a rumor.

It'll be interesting if WN cuts additional stations beyond DAY. Since the schedule transition last spring, FNT has managed LF in the high 50s/low 60s - definitely not sustainable. Although I wouldn't have anticipated any cuts until after the summer season.
mtnwest1979 wrote:
....and I guess I am glad I have already been to CAK.

It would be highly unusual for them to close one station.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:53 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.


I doubt WN will launch BOS/DCA/LAS from CVG. The only cities that seem likely are MDW, BWI, MCO/FLL/TPA, HOU, DEN and maybe LAS. I guess STL or PHX are possibilities.


STL and BNA seem reasonably likely to me in the medium-term. Both have very high fares but are far enough away that lower fares could stimulate some demand, and both offer a plethora of connecting opportunities. WN also has added or is adding gates both places.
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msycajun
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:10 pm

enilria wrote:
lowfareair wrote:
enilria wrote:
I don't see how they keep DAY if this happens.


Why not? WN started BOS and still has MHT/PVD, started FLL and still has PBI, started LGA and still has ISP, started DCA and still has IAD, and kept CLE & CAK after the FL merger. All are closer than DAY is to Cincy proper. Service levels may have changed, but station eliminations are not a guarantee.

Possibly shortest ever time to be proven right about my WN speculation!
compensateme wrote:
It's not a rumor.

It'll be interesting if WN cuts additional stations beyond DAY. Since the schedule transition last spring, FNT has managed LF in the high 50s/low 60s - definitely not sustainable. Although I wouldn't have anticipated any cuts until after the summer season.
mtnwest1979 wrote:
....and I guess I am glad I have already been to CAK.

It would be highly unusual for them to close one station.


To be fair, speculation that WN was planning to open CVG and close DAY with this schedule release has been ongoing for a few weeks now. There was discussion in the Ohio thread about a bid out for the renovation of 4 gates at CVG, presumably for WN. Now it will be interesting to see if they intend all four gates for WN as that would imply 20+ flights off the bat.
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:22 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
STL and BNA seem reasonably likely to me in the medium-term. Both have very high fares but are far enough away that lower fares could stimulate some demand, and both offer a plethora of connecting opportunities. WN also has added or is adding gates both places.


I have doubts about BNA unless they want traffic to be almost purely connecting. They did this with GSP-ATL, so I guess it's possible but doesn't seem like a highly profitable choice.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:26 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
STL and BNA seem reasonably likely to me in the medium-term. Both have very high fares but are far enough away that lower fares could stimulate some demand, and both offer a plethora of connecting opportunities. WN also has added or is adding gates both places.


I have doubts about BNA unless they want traffic to be almost purely connecting. They did this with GSP-ATL, so I guess it's possible but doesn't seem like a highly profitable choice.


They recently added PIT-BNA and have flown CMH-BNA for decades. Why is CVG-BNA so much different that we can discount it?
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:28 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
STL and BNA seem reasonably likely to me in the medium-term. Both have very high fares but are far enough away that lower fares could stimulate some demand, and both offer a plethora of connecting opportunities. WN also has added or is adding gates both places.


I have doubts about BNA unless they want traffic to be almost purely connecting. They did this with GSP-ATL, so I guess it's possible but doesn't seem like a highly profitable choice.


BNA is a connecting focus city, but BNA does have good O&D numbers.
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usflyguy
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:34 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
STL and BNA seem reasonably likely to me in the medium-term. Both have very high fares but are far enough away that lower fares could stimulate some demand, and both offer a plethora of connecting opportunities. WN also has added or is adding gates both places.


I have doubts about BNA unless they want traffic to be almost purely connecting. They did this with GSP-ATL, so I guess it's possible but doesn't seem like a highly profitable choice.


Are there not any business connections between the two cities? BNA-CVG is further apart than DAL-HOU, BWI-PIT, and many other routes that WN flies.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
orangeguy
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:34 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.


I doubt WN will launch BOS/DCA/LAS from CVG. The only cities that seem likely are MDW, BWI, MCO/FLL/TPA, HOU, DEN and maybe LAS. I guess STL or PHX are possibilities.


BWI is a given and MDW and FLL seem highly likely. Only competition to FLL would be seasonal flights from DL. HOU, PHX, MCO, and DEN seem likely possibilities, but they will have lots of competition on those routes.

I wonder if CVG was able to incentive them into a west coast route. I could imagine a flight to OAK.
 
jco613
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:39 pm

orangeguy wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.


I doubt WN will launch BOS/DCA/LAS from CVG. The only cities that seem likely are MDW, BWI, MCO/FLL/TPA, HOU, DEN and maybe LAS. I guess STL or PHX are possibilities.


BWI is a given and MDW and FLL seem highly likely. Only competition to FLL would be seasonal flights from DL. HOU, PHX, MCO, and DEN seem likely possibilities, but they will have lots of competition on those routes.

I wonder if CVG was able to incentive them into a west coast route. I could imagine a flight to OAK.


correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't DL year-round on CVG-FLL, just less than daily/regional in the summer?

That said, I predict the following, assuming 4 gates/20 departures

6X BWI
6X MDW
2X FLL (to feed international - look for some more FLL adds soon)
3X MCO
2X TPA
1X PHX

If they go with a few more departures, I could see (in order)
1X DAL
1X DEN
2X BNA
2X ATL
2X HOU
1X MKE
1X LAS
1X OAK

I think CVG has the potential to be a BIG add...if done right.
 
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enilria
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:40 pm

They have a history of chasing F9. I expect that means MCO/DEN/LAS maybe PHX/FLL/MDW/BWI as well.
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:49 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
They recently added PIT-BNA and have flown CMH-BNA for decades. Why is CVG-BNA so much different that we can discount it?


Distance is the big difference. CVG-BNA is barely a four hour drive, so you're competing with cars on this route. Considering the time to drive to each airport, go through security, wait for flights and then actually fly, I'm not sure it would save that much time. Plus, given WN's cost structure, the lowest fare you'd ever see if $49 and likely more which is questionable.

The only way I see them adding BNA is just if they want to make it a connecting gateway to Florida. However, given the high number of nonstop flights to Florida on F9/G4/DL, I'm not sure that's a winning strategy.
 
ScottB
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:51 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
STL and BNA seem reasonably likely to me in the medium-term. Both have very high fares but are far enough away that lower fares could stimulate some demand, and both offer a plethora of connecting opportunities. WN also has added or is adding gates both places.


I have doubts about BNA unless they want traffic to be almost purely connecting. They did this with GSP-ATL, so I guess it's possible but doesn't seem like a highly profitable choice.


They recently added PIT-BNA and have flown CMH-BNA for decades. Why is CVG-BNA so much different that we can discount it?


Cincinnati-Nashville is about 1.5 hours shorter on the road than Columbus-Nashville, so it becomes more difficult for flights to compete with driving. The drive to Nashville goes right by CVG so the time savings by flying from door-to-door is likely an hour at most.

orangeguy wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I wonder how much WN can do in CVG without arousing too much of a response from DL. Would stuff like BOS, DCA or LAX provoke a response? ATL and LGA plainly would, and I doubt DL much cares if WN starts stuff like BNA or STL.


I doubt WN will launch BOS/DCA/LAS from CVG. The only cities that seem likely are MDW, BWI, MCO/FLL/TPA, HOU, DEN and maybe LAS. I guess STL or PHX are possibilities.


BWI is a given and MDW and FLL seem highly likely. Only competition to FLL would be seasonal flights from DL. HOU, PHX, MCO, and DEN seem likely possibilities, but they will have lots of competition on those routes.

I wonder if CVG was able to incentive them into a west coast route. I could imagine a flight to OAK.


I think MDW and BWI are both locks to be served unless there are gate space issues at either airport. I'd say the likelihood of both MCO & TPA is also over 90%. If they really want to throw down the gauntlet to B6, they add CVG-BOS (and watch for B6 to announce CVG before the end of the month given that they're the new NWA). I'd put DAL, DEN, STL, and LAS all in the toss-up category.

Meltshopmax wrote:
Ive been hearing this for some time. Delta is a shadow of its former self in Cvg and the lease on B concourse is up in 2020. I could easily see delta using this to get out of the lease at least for the east end of B. If they come into A it will stretch the bridges pretty thin.


If DL cuts CVG further, I can see WN attempting the same sort of strategy they've used at CMH & IND by adding BOS & DCA; they don't really have enough slots at LGA to serve CVG-LGA without making other cuts, though. AS has the DCA & LGA slots they currently use for DAL; maybe they could turn CVG into their Eastern scissor hub as another F-U to DL.
 
rockyracoon
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:03 pm

Over the years, CVG officials have constantly pointed to BOS as example route that was prime for a Low Cost entrant. WN has an opening here, and should challenge DL's current CVG-BOS monopoly.
Airports I've flown from: CVG PIT MWO PHL PHX ORD DCA IAD MIA TPA MCO FLL ATL DTW DFW SJC LAX DEN SLC LAS HNL LIH OGG YVR GYE MUC ICN NRT PVG SHA SZX MNL PPS CRK BKK DMK KBV EOH MDE CLO CTG SMR BOG ACD MEX CUN MID AUA SAL RTB
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:04 pm

ScottB wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
FlyPNS1 wrote:

I have doubts about BNA unless they want traffic to be almost purely connecting. They did this with GSP-ATL, so I guess it's possible but doesn't seem like a highly profitable choice.


They recently added PIT-BNA and have flown CMH-BNA for decades. Why is CVG-BNA so much different that we can discount it?


Cincinnati-Nashville is about 1.5 hours shorter on the road than Columbus-Nashville, so it becomes more difficult for flights to compete with driving. The drive to Nashville goes right by CVG so the time savings by flying from door-to-door is likely an hour at most.


Have either of you actually done this drive? I do it regularly and it's not fun. There's about a 40 mile work zone south of Louisville and Louisville traffic is unpleasant. 71 between Louisville and 75 can be slow too. I've made it downtown to downtown in four hours once, on a Sunday morning.

The point about $49 fares ignores the very high fares that DL charges on the route. I can't justify $1,500 roundtrip to save 3-4 hours (and since I can work at the airport and on the plane and time is money, it's really more than that). With a $400 roundtrip and a decent schedule, I'd fly almost every time. There's a huge gap between $49 and what DL charges on the route.

ScottB wrote:
Meltshopmax wrote:
Ive been hearing this for some time. Delta is a shadow of its former self in Cvg and the lease on B concourse is up in 2020. I could easily see delta using this to get out of the lease at least for the east end of B. If they come into A it will stretch the bridges pretty thin.


If DL cuts CVG further, I can see WN attempting the same sort of strategy they've used at CMH & IND by adding BOS & DCA; they don't really have enough slots at LGA to serve CVG-LGA without making other cuts, though. AS has the DCA & LGA slots they currently use for DAL; maybe they could turn CVG into their Eastern scissor hub as another F-U to DL.


That is exactly my thought on BOS and DCA. I might also put LAX in the same bucket depending on the gate situation there.
Last edited by Cubsrule on Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Meltshopmax
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:05 pm

There is room to add 4 to 5 bridges to A concourse. ......DL bearly uses B....always empty gates over there.
 
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southwest1675
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:11 pm

Starting CVG June 4th, 2017.

5X MDW
3X BWI

That's it.
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izbtmnhd
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:14 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Starting CVG June 4th, 2017.

5X MDW
3X BWI

That's it.


I thought this would be the launch hub for their service to HKG and BKK. ;)
 
cvgComair
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:28 pm

Meltshopmax wrote:
There is room to add 4 to 5 bridges to A concourse. ......DL bearly uses B....always empty gates over there.


DL has a lock on B, the airport is adding gates A1/2/3/5 for Southwest, opening this summer. Bids went up in December, so we have been pretty sure WN was coming since December.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:30 pm

jco613 wrote:
I think CVG has the potential to be a BIG add...if done right.

Agree completely.

Parallel runways, ~3Million catchment area, plus a significant number of Fortune500s and 1000s?
...somewhat surprised that it hasn't happened already.

Sad though, as I always thought CVG would make a good midwest hub for B6. But doubt that'll happen now.
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mtnwest1979
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:37 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Starting CVG June 4th, 2017.

5X MDW
3X BWI

That's it.


I don't see this number staying this low for long.
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izbtmnhd
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:40 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
jco613 wrote:
I think CVG has the potential to be a BIG add...if done right.

Agree completely.

Parallel runways, ~3Million catchment area, plus a significant number of Fortune500s and 1000s?
...somewhat surprised that it hasn't happened already.

Sad though, as I always thought CVG would make a good midwest hub for B6. But doubt that'll happen now.


B6 is so invested in CVG they chose to fly to CMH first and then to DTW and CLE. It was never going to happen.

Don't bet on an WN hub either.
 
flyguychi
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:44 pm

CAK and DAY closing with CVG Announcement:

"We are announcing today the closure of both Akron-Canton (CAK) and Dayton (DAY), the addition of a new Southwest City, Cincinnati (CVG), and the addition of new flights in Cleveland (CLE). The last day of service in CAK and DAY will be on June 3, 2017. The following day, on June 4, 2017, CVG will begin operating with flights to MDW and BWI. Additionally on June 4, 2017, CLE will launch three new flights with daily service between CLE and ATL, and additional frequency between CLE and STL."
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:47 pm

Cubsrule wrote:

The point about $49 fares ignores the very high fares that DL charges on the route. I can't justify $1,500 roundtrip to save 3-4 hours (and since I can work at the airport and on the plane and time is money, it's really more than that). With a $400 roundtrip and a decent schedule, I'd fly almost every time. There's a huge gap between $49 and what DL charges on the route.


Going from downtown to downtown flying would take almost as long as four hours anyway. The time to drive to CVG, park, get through security, get to the gate 20 minutes before departure, taxi/fly for 45 minutes, then go through the airport, pick up rental car and drive to downtown Nashville is easily going to run you 3 hours best case scenario. So the time savings is minimal.

The reason DL has such high fares is there is no leisure demand on the route at any decent price point (everyone drives), so DL just tries to skim off the top business travelers using RJs. That strategy won't work for WN and WN's costs aren't low enough to fill the flight with $49 fares. Yes, WN would offer low business fares than DL, but I'm not sure that would stimulate that much demand when you have to fill a 737.
 
izbtmnhd
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:47 pm

flyguychi wrote:
CAK and DAY closing with CVG Announcement:

"We are announcing today the closure of both Akron-Canton (CAK) and Dayton (DAY), the addition of a new Southwest City, Cincinnati (CVG), and the addition of new flights in Cleveland (CLE). The last day of service in CAK and DAY will be on June 3, 2017. The following day, on June 4, 2017, CVG will begin operating with flights to MDW and BWI. Additionally on June 4, 2017, CLE will launch three new flights with daily service between CLE and ATL, and additional frequency between CLE and STL."


A decent group of the a.nutters said the CAK service will go to Cincy. Somebody get on the horn to Dallas, pronto! Clearly this was a mistake ;)
 
jco613
Posts: 284
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:51 pm

mtnwest1979 wrote:
southwest1675 wrote:
Starting CVG June 4th, 2017.

5X MDW
3X BWI

That's it.


I don't see this number staying this low for long.


RE: My previous comment on this possibly being BIG for WN. They rushed PHL (they rushed DEN but got lucky), and failed...I think we will see progressive adds, but I could see CVG becoming a RDU, IND, MKE, or perhaps BNA/STL sized city...eventually
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:52 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The point about $49 fares ignores the very high fares that DL charges on the route. I can't justify $1,500 roundtrip to save 3-4 hours (and since I can work at the airport and on the plane and time is money, it's really more than that). With a $400 roundtrip and a decent schedule, I'd fly almost every time. There's a huge gap between $49 and what DL charges on the route.


Going from downtown to downtown flying would take almost as long as four hours anyway. The time to drive to CVG, park, get through security, get to the gate 20 minutes before departure, taxi/fly for 45 minutes, then go through the airport, pick up rental car and drive to downtown Nashville is easily going to run you 3 hours best case scenario. So the time savings is minimal.


How many times have you driven and flown CVG-BNA? I've done both dozens of times. Your time estimates are off.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jco613
Posts: 284
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:53 pm

flyguychi wrote:
CAK and DAY closing with CVG Announcement:

"We are announcing today the closure of both Akron-Canton (CAK) and Dayton (DAY), the addition of a new Southwest City, Cincinnati (CVG), and the addition of new flights in Cleveland (CLE). The last day of service in CAK and DAY will be on June 3, 2017. The following day, on June 4, 2017, CVG will begin operating with flights to MDW and BWI. Additionally on June 4, 2017, CLE will launch three new flights with daily service between CLE and ATL, and additional frequency between CLE and STL."


Anyone got live video of NK HQ right now? I'm sure there is a huge party going on with the former FL execs who want to re-build CAK...again
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:53 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
flyguychi wrote:
CAK and DAY closing with CVG Announcement:

"We are announcing today the closure of both Akron-Canton (CAK) and Dayton (DAY), the addition of a new Southwest City, Cincinnati (CVG), and the addition of new flights in Cleveland (CLE). The last day of service in CAK and DAY will be on June 3, 2017. The following day, on June 4, 2017, CVG will begin operating with flights to MDW and BWI. Additionally on June 4, 2017, CLE will launch three new flights with daily service between CLE and ATL, and additional frequency between CLE and STL."


A decent group of the a.nutters said the CAK service will go to Cincy. Somebody get on the horn to Dallas, pronto! Clearly this was a mistake ;)


Not surprisingly, the CAK service seems to be going to CLE, not CVG.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:00 pm

Cubsrule wrote:

How many times have you driven and flown CVG-BNA? I've done both dozens of times. Your time estimates are off.


I've done both admittedly not as frequently as you and I stand by my estimates. The time savings from flying isn't that much. Only the most time sensitive customers would do it. However, that's only a small number of business travelers and I have doubts you can fill a 737 with those numbers.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14572
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:16 pm

FlyPNS1 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

How many times have you driven and flown CVG-BNA? I've done both dozens of times. Your time estimates are off.


I've done both admittedly not as frequently as you and I stand by my estimates. The time savings from flying isn't that much. Only the most time sensitive customers would do it. However, that's only a small number of business travelers and I have doubts you can fill a 737 with those numbers.


You're backtracking here. I never argued that the O&D could fill a 737. Plainly it can't. But some O&D is much different from "almost purely connecting." CVG-BNA is similar to stuff like MCI-STL, BWI-RDU or MDW-SDF.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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AirportRival
Posts: 405
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:20 pm

So does Southwest keep all ground handling work in house or do they contract out the smaller stations?
 
FlyPNS1
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Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:29 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
You're backtracking here. I never argued that the O&D could fill a 737. Plainly it can't. But some O&D is much different from "almost purely connecting." CVG-BNA is similar to stuff like MCI-STL, BWI-RDU or MDW-SDF.


Now, I think we're just arguing semantics. Whether it's 5%, 10% or even 20% O&D, the overwhelming majority of the traffic would be connecting. I don't think that's appealing to WN especially when most of the connecting flow traffic is going to be to Florida which isn't great yields either.

Right now, DOT data shows about 13 passengers go each way between CVG and BNA each day. Granted, lower WN fares would stimulate more traffic. But assuming WN flew BNA-CVG 2x day and assuming DL abandoned the route because of WN, you'd still have little for O&D. Even if WN quadrupled the market size to 52 passengers a day each way, that's not much on 2x daily 737's that are seating 143 passengers. Plus, the stimulatory effect of WN is tough to measure on a short route like this where the car is your biggest competitor.
 
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enilria
Posts: 10275
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:41 pm

flyguychi wrote:
CAK and DAY closing with CVG Announcement:

"We are announcing today the closure of both Akron-Canton (CAK) and Dayton (DAY), the addition of a new Southwest City, Cincinnati (CVG), and the addition of new flights in Cleveland (CLE). The last day of service in CAK and DAY will be on June 3, 2017. The following day, on June 4, 2017, CVG will begin operating with flights to MDW and BWI. Additionally on June 4, 2017, CLE will launch three new flights with daily service between CLE and ATL, and additional frequency between CLE and STL."

Yeah that was inevitable, as was closing more than one city. I only wonder if more will be announced tomorrow. Probably not, but could be...
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:46 pm

AirportRival wrote:
So does Southwest keep all ground handling work in house or do they contract out the smaller stations?


WN does contract out both customer service and ramp operations in smaller stations, but the announcement today included the bit that both above wing and below wing in CVG will be staffed by WN employees... which, I think, is a sign that WN already has growth plans for CVG.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1068
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Southwest to announce CVG

Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:58 pm

I think this move shows why "linear" metro areas like Cincinnati/Dayton and Cleveland/Akron would be better served by one airport in the center of the metro areas rather than two airports on opposite sides of each main city. Seattle/Tacoma certainly did something right in that respect, and while it probably wouldn't make sense to construct a new airport in the middle of those two markets (and other cities) just to consolidate, the benefits and economics of building a new central airport should be taken into account in these and other metro areas when expansion plans come up. In both of these cases, one central airport would certainly produce more routes and more frequent service on existing routes and, done right, wouldn't add a significant amount of transportation time to/from each city center.
Last edited by flyfresno on Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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