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jetsetterusa
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AA flight AA109 LHR-LAX diverted to KEF

Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:55 pm

Looks like an AA 77W diverted to KEF I wish someone with an camera was there right now :(
Last edited by SQ22 on Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Thread title updated
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qf789
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Re: AA in KEF

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:17 pm

The flight that diverted is AA109 LHR-LAX, according to FR24 tweet its due to the needs of a passenger

Image

https://twitter.com/flightradar24
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ozark1
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Re: AA in KEF

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:22 pm

It looks like that whatever caused the flight to divert to KEF is now going to create another diversion to JFK due to crew rest legalities. Oh boy.
 
SCQ83
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Re: AA in KEF

Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:54 pm

For a few seconds, I expected AA had announced flights to KEF.

It wouldn't surprise anyone at this stage.
 
jetsetterusa
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Re: AA in KEF

Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:53 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
For a few seconds, I expected AA had announced flights to KEF.

It wouldn't surprise anyone at this stage.



thats would be nice!!!
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jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:40 am

Why a 2 hour layover in JFK? Seems like very poor planning on AA's part. I mean, those poor folks planned on a simple 7 hour non stop flight that has now turned into a disaster. AA should be able to do a better job of getting the plane turned at JFK. 2 hours is totally pathetic.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:46 am

jumbojet wrote:
Why a 2 hour layover in JFK? Seems like very poor planning on AA's part. I mean, those poor folks planned on a simple 7 hour non stop flight that has now turned into a disaster. AA should be able to do a better job of getting the plane turned at JFK. 2 hours is totally pathetic.

Its possible the pax and their bags are clearing Customs in JFK. If that is the case,I would say 2 hours isn't bad given it budgets for some delays in that process.
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grbauc
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:55 am

jumbojet wrote:
Why a 2 hour layover in JFK? Seems like very poor planning on AA's part. I mean, those poor folks planned on a simple 7 hour non stop flight that has now turned into a disaster. AA should be able to do a better job of getting the plane turned at JFK. 2 hours is totally pathetic.


Umm welll to clear the plane and other customs issues has well has fuel and re crewing the plan I'd say that's about what I'd exspect for a 777. The reality of life is it's a complicated process that use to take years the months weeks and now hours. There is a lot going on you and I don't see.
 
icelandair75w
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:07 am

Found the pic in a group I'm a member of on Facebook

Image
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:15 am

grbauc wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Why a 2 hour layover in JFK? Seems like very poor planning on AA's part. I mean, those poor folks planned on a simple 7 hour non stop flight that has now turned into a disaster. AA should be able to do a better job of getting the plane turned at JFK. 2 hours is totally pathetic.


Umm welll to clear the plane and other customs issues has well has fuel and re crewing the plan I'd say that's about what I'd exspect for a 777. The reality of life is it's a complicated process that use to take years the months weeks and now hours. There is a lot going on you and I don't see.


2 plus hours at JFK and the 2 1/2 hours in KEF? Something doesn't add up, especially if its a medical situation. AA dropped the ball either in KEF or JFK.
 
ozark1
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:31 am

grbauc wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Why a 2 hour layover in JFK? Seems like very poor planning on AA's part. I mean, those poor folks planned on a simple 7 hour non stop flight that has now turned into a disaster. AA should be able to do a better job of getting the plane turned at JFK. 2 hours is totally pathetic.


Umm welll to clear the plane and other customs issues has well has fuel and re crewing the plan I'd say that's about what I'd exspect for a 777. The reality of life is it's a complicated process that use to take years the months weeks and now hours. There is a lot going on you and I don't see.


I have to agree. 2 hours is not a long time. Please. There were 309 passengers, customs, recrew, fuel, flight planning, etc. Although I will be the first to criticize AA a lot of times, I don't in this case.
 
BestWestern
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:37 am

Give the airline a break here. Perhaps in JFK they re-connected some of the transit pax?

How long do you expect a 77W with a medical emergency turn in an offline country with no 777 service to be? Think of the paperwork alone.
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jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:38 am

ozark1 wrote:
grbauc wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Why a 2 hour layover in JFK? Seems like very poor planning on AA's part. I mean, those poor folks planned on a simple 7 hour non stop flight that has now turned into a disaster. AA should be able to do a better job of getting the plane turned at JFK. 2 hours is totally pathetic.


Umm welll to clear the plane and other customs issues has well has fuel and re crewing the plan I'd say that's about what I'd exspect for a 777. The reality of life is it's a complicated process that use to take years the months weeks and now hours. There is a lot going on you and I don't see.


I have to agree. 2 hours is not a long time. Please. There were 309 passengers, customs, recrew, fuel, flight planning, etc. Although I will be the first to criticize AA a lot of times, I don't in this case.


I'm sorry but there is no valid defense on AA's part. 2 1/2 hours on the ground in KEF? Medical diversions shouldn't take that long. AA dropped the ball. To many people defend the airlines when they deserve to be criticized for performing poorly.

BTW, AA just got fined millions of dollars for tarmac violations for flights at DFW last year and 2015. The DOT mentioned that AA needs a better plan to handle flights that approach the limitations. It seems that AA's approach to these types of events is very lackadaisical
 
B757capt
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:45 am

jumbojet wrote:
ozark1 wrote:
grbauc wrote:

Umm welll to clear the plane and other customs issues has well has fuel and re crewing the plan I'd say that's about what I'd exspect for a 777. The reality of life is it's a complicated process that use to take years the months weeks and now hours. There is a lot going on you and I don't see.


I have to agree. 2 hours is not a long time. Please. There were 309 passengers, customs, recrew, fuel, flight planning, etc. Although I will be the first to criticize AA a lot of times, I don't in this case.


I'm sorry but there is no valid defense on AA's part. 2 1/2 hours on the ground in KEF? Medical diversions shouldn't take that long. AA dropped the ball. To many people defend the airlines when they deserve to be criticized for performing poorly.

BTW, AA just got fined millions of dollars for tarmac violations for flights at DFW last year and 2015. The DOT mentioned that AA needs a better plan to handle flights that approach the limitations. It seems that AA's approach to these types of events is very lackadaisical


Remove customer that is ill, replace used medical equipment, completed an overweight landing inspection, refuel and plan dispatch paper work to a new destination airport. I would say to do that in 2 hours is a great job. Its a shame they aren't getting more credit.
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jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:46 am

BestWestern wrote:
Give the airline a break here. Perhaps in JFK they re-connected some of the transit pax?

How long do you expect a 77W with a medical emergency turn in an offline country with no 777 service to be? Think of the paperwork alone.


AA is notorious for being lackadaisical. Sorry, but they don't get a break from me. There should have been people at AA's HQ's working on this problem immediately. We are talking about KEF not some airport in Iran. AA needs to get a better plan in place for med diversions to KEF. If I was DP, I would be irate and order a complete overhaul of medical diversion procedures to KEF. AA gets an F.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:49 am

B757capt wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
ozark1 wrote:

I have to agree. 2 hours is not a long time. Please. There were 309 passengers, customs, recrew, fuel, flight planning, etc. Although I will be the first to criticize AA a lot of times, I don't in this case.


I'm sorry but there is no valid defense on AA's part. 2 1/2 hours on the ground in KEF? Medical diversions shouldn't take that long. AA dropped the ball. To many people defend the airlines when they deserve to be criticized for performing poorly.

BTW, AA just got fined millions of dollars for tarmac violations for flights at DFW last year and 2015. The DOT mentioned that AA needs a better plan to handle flights that approach the limitations. It seems that AA's approach to these types of events is very lackadaisical


Remove customer that is ill, replace used medical equipment, completed an overweight landing inspection, refuel and plan dispatch paper work to a new destination airport. I would say to do that in 2 hours is a great job. Its a shame they aren't getting more credit.


sorry, not buying it. 2 1/2 hours for all of that? Other airlines have done it in far less time. AA is notorious for being very lackadaisical. I would hope and expect AA to be handing out travel vouchers for the extended delay at both KEF and JFK.
 
grbauc
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:54 am

jumbojet wrote:
ozark1 wrote:
grbauc wrote:

Umm welll to clear the plane and other customs issues has well has fuel and re crewing the plan I'd say that's about what I'd exspect for a 777. The reality of life is it's a complicated process that use to take years the months weeks and now hours. There is a lot going on you and I don't see.


I have to agree. 2 hours is not a long time. Please. There were 309 passengers, customs, recrew, fuel, flight planning, etc. Although I will be the first to criticize AA a lot of times, I don't in this case.


I'm sorry but there is no valid defense on AA's part. 2 1/2 hours on the ground in KEF? Medical diversions shouldn't take that long. AA dropped the ball. To many people defend the airlines when they deserve to be criticized for performing poorly.

BTW, AA just got fined millions of dollars for tarmac violations for flights at DFW last year and 2015. The DOT mentioned that AA needs a better plan to handle flights that approach the limitations. It seems that AA's approach to these types of events is very lackadaisical


Blah blah bla. Nothing to do with this situation. Heck it could of Taken easily up to 30 min to just get the medical situation cleared off the plane. Tarmac violation have nothing to do with this. I don't care to change your mind and highly doubt I could even with proof. I will concede there is a slim chance your right I highly doubt it though.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:58 am

AA gets no sympathy from me in this situation. You have to work harder than the 2 1/2 hours in KEF and the 2 plus hours at JFK. Very poor job by AA.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:08 am

jumbojet wrote:
AA gets no sympathy from me in this situation. You have to work harder than the 2 1/2 hours in KEF and the 2 plus hours at JFK. Very poor job by AA.


Just curious, how long do you think it should take to unload and reload a 777, clear customs for all pax and bags, have all pax reclear TSA, reload all the bags, reroute, rebook and pull the bags for those pax that will miss their connections in LAX but have options out of JFK, fuel the aircraft, and get a new 777 crew to the aircraft and ready to go (as I recall JFK is not a 777 crew base)? If you think all of that takes only a mere hour....
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cschleic
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:15 am

jumbojet wrote:
AA gets no sympathy from me in this situation. You have to work harder than the 2 1/2 hours in KEF and the 2 plus hours at JFK. Very poor job by AA.


We get it, you don't like AA. Point made, several times. But maybe think about what everyone else is saying about the time to handle such an unscheduled event. By the way, the plane probably wasn't sitting on the tarmac doing nothing.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:16 am

alasizon wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
AA gets no sympathy from me in this situation. You have to work harder than the 2 1/2 hours in KEF and the 2 plus hours at JFK. Very poor job by AA.


Just curious, how long do you think it should take to unload and reload a 777, clear customs for all pax and bags, have all pax reclear TSA, reload all the bags, reroute, rebook and pull the bags for those pax that will miss their connections in LAX but have options out of JFK, fuel the aircraft, and get a new 777 crew to the aircraft and ready to go (as I recall JFK is not a 777 crew base)? If you think all of that takes only a mere hour....


pull more workers to help the flight. Not enough is done. Again, its mismanagement on AA's part. To many people settle for mediocrity, why should the airlines, AA in this case, try any harder when people are willing to settle for mediocrity?
 
cschleic
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:26 am

Let's move on.

Nice photo of the plane at KEF. Must have been quite a sight from the terminal. Do 77Ws land there much, or 777s at all, outside of test flights or a diversion? Any word on the passenger issue?
 
phlwok
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:36 am

The last time I was on a flight with a major medical issue was on a JFK-LHR AA flight last year, and fortunately the passenger had their issue during taxi before takeoff. The passenger received CPR from a nurse on board during an expedited taxi back to a gate, but paramedics determined that they needed to do a lot of work on the patient (including multiple CPR cycles) before trying to transport them, and it was 40 minutes before the passenger was transported off of the plane on a stretcher. Medical supplies were then restocked, NYPD and FDNY paramedics then released the aircraft, and we were back off the gate after about 75 minutes.

Why do I mention this? Because if the passenger in this KEF diversion required treatment on board prior to transport, that could account for an extended delay before much else is done. You all have to remember that just because paramedics or ambulance crews reach a patient does not mean they are ready for transport to a hospital - in many case, care is given prior to transport. While transport to a hospital is a priority, it does not get priority over immediate care if the medic unit is capable of providing it on the scene.
 
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phlsfo
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:39 am

jumbojet wrote:
alasizon wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
AA gets no sympathy from me in this situation. You have to work harder than the 2 1/2 hours in KEF and the 2 plus hours at JFK. Very poor job by AA.


Just curious, how long do you think it should take to unload and reload a 777, clear customs for all pax and bags, have all pax reclear TSA, reload all the bags, reroute, rebook and pull the bags for those pax that will miss their connections in LAX but have options out of JFK, fuel the aircraft, and get a new 777 crew to the aircraft and ready to go (as I recall JFK is not a 777 crew base)? If you think all of that takes only a mere hour....


pull more workers to help the flight. Not enough is done. Again, its mismanagement on AA's part. To many people settle for mediocrity, why should the airlines, AA in this case, try any harder when people are willing to settle for mediocrity?



You say mediocrity, however you clearly have no clue what goes into handling an international diversion at an airport where you have *literally* no staff. Diversions take time, recrewing flight take time, clearing customs takes time. You are quick to assume no one at AA HQ was working on this when I can guarantee that there was an army of people working on this at both HQ and JFK. Don't make assumptions when you clearly have no clue what you are talking about. You sound like the type of person who shakes their empty glass at a flight attendant while she is performing CPR on someone,.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:39 am

cschleic wrote:
Let's move on.

Nice photo of the plane at KEF. Must have been quite a sight from the terminal. Do 77Ws land there much, or 777s at all, outside of test flights or a diversion? Any word on the passenger issue?


No scheduled 777 service at KEF.
 
CplKlinger
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:43 am

jumbojet wrote:
alasizon wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
AA gets no sympathy from me in this situation. You have to work harder than the 2 1/2 hours in KEF and the 2 plus hours at JFK. Very poor job by AA.


Just curious, how long do you think it should take to unload and reload a 777, clear customs for all pax and bags, have all pax reclear TSA, reload all the bags, reroute, rebook and pull the bags for those pax that will miss their connections in LAX but have options out of JFK, fuel the aircraft, and get a new 777 crew to the aircraft and ready to go (as I recall JFK is not a 777 crew base)? If you think all of that takes only a mere hour....


pull more workers to help the flight. Not enough is done. Again, its mismanagement on AA's part. To many people settle for mediocrity, why should the airlines, AA in this case, try any harder when people are willing to settle for mediocrity?


Pull more workers? Where from at KEF? AA doesn't even fly there on their own metal, so they have no workers to pull from. And JFK? Weather is already bad there, so they may be stretched thin as it is. AA has many more flights to worry about than this one on it's own. Besides, if they pull workers to work this flight, then another flight slides, and another. That's not how managing things works, however much you try.

It's clear from your incessant whining in this thread that you hold a serious grudge against AA for some slight (real or imagined) for one, and for two that you have little to no idea how things work in the real world. We get it, you don't like AA. You've made your case. Now kindly go find your hole and crawl back in it.
 
dispatchguy
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:46 am

Has anyone on here been in a major airline control center as an employee? Whether a dispatcher, ops controller, aircraft router, crew controller, load planner, etc?

I didnt think so. Gotta love armchair CEOs who think that being on here makes them qualified.

The way some people seemingly think on here that once the sick pax is off the airplane, close the door and go.

All of the background coordinating takes time - facilitation (a fancy word for customs), medical response for the sick pax, maybe the crew had to write up something mechanical which meant contract maintenance had to respond, or get an oxygen bottle replaced, or a first aid kit or certain injectible medicines in the FAK replaced. Then getting the flight plan on file with ATC, fuel and fuel authorizations. And all of the above under the gun because once the crew times out, your medical diversion is dead in the water with crew duty issues.

2-1/2 hours seems like a decent turn around - especially at a place where people dont wear your airlines' uniform.
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phlsfo
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:01 am

dispatchguy wrote:
Has anyone on here been in a major airline control center as an employee? Whether a dispatcher, ops controller, aircraft router, crew controller, load planner, etc?

I didnt think so. Gotta love armchair CEOs who think that being on here makes them qualified.

The way some people seemingly think on here that once the sick pax is off the airplane, close the door and go.

All of the background coordinating takes time - facilitation (a fancy word for customs), medical response for the sick pax, maybe the crew had to write up something mechanical which meant contract maintenance had to respond, or get an oxygen bottle replaced, or a first aid kit or certain injectible medicines in the FAK replaced. Then getting the flight plan on file with ATC, fuel and fuel authorizations. And all of the above under the gun because once the crew times out, your medical diversion is dead in the water with crew duty issues.

2-1/2 hours seems like a decent turn around - especially at a place where people dont wear your airlines' uniform.



I've previously done crew scheduling. Working with dispatchers and OPS managers on diversions in the past, 2.5 hours seems totally reasonable for something like this.
 
icelandair75w
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:06 am

cschleic wrote:
Let's move on.

Nice photo of the plane at KEF. Must have been quite a sight from the terminal. Do 77Ws land there much, or 777s at all, outside of test flights or a diversion? Any word on the passenger issue?



Outside of a few diversions and a few charter flights from Tokyo, they're not very common at all. They normally park these diversions at the East Ramp (Old military base area/old terminal area).
 
icelandair75w
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:09 am

phlwok wrote:
The last time I was on a flight with a major medical issue was on a JFK-LHR AA flight last year, and fortunately the passenger had their issue during taxi before takeoff. The passenger received CPR from a nurse on board during an expedited taxi back to a gate, but paramedics determined that they needed to do a lot of work on the patient (including multiple CPR cycles) before trying to transport them, and it was 40 minutes before the passenger was transported off of the plane on a stretcher. Medical supplies were then restocked, NYPD and FDNY paramedics then released the aircraft, and we were back off the gate after about 75 minutes.

Why do I mention this? Because if the passenger in this KEF diversion required treatment on board prior to transport, that could account for an extended delay before much else is done. You all have to remember that just because paramedics or ambulance crews reach a patient does not mean they are ready for transport to a hospital - in many case, care is given prior to transport. While transport to a hospital is a priority, it does not get priority over immediate care if the medic unit is capable of providing it on the scene.


+1, for serious medical cases I believe they will transport the patient to a hospital in Reykjavik, Landspítala, which is close to a 40 minute drive from KEF. I'm not entirely sure if the hospital in KEF is fully equipped (depending on the severity of the medical condition of course).
 
COPolynesianPub
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:21 am

It looks pretty cold in KEF to me. Do you think the weather conditions would have necessitated the aircraft to be deiced before take off delaying the departure a little more? Just another sideline guess.
 
Corpsnerd09
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:37 am

You guys really shouldn't feed the trolls on this forum. I'm sure the mods don't care, but it's really distracting to the actual discussion. No wonder many good posters have left. Seriously, just ignore next time...


This thread should be locked just because it's pretty much useless at this point, hijacked by the same typical troll that hijacks every thread I this forum now.
 
flyDTW1992
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:04 am

phlsfo wrote:
dispatchguy wrote:
Has anyone on here been in a major airline control center as an employee? Whether a dispatcher, ops controller, aircraft router, crew controller, load planner, etc?

I didnt think so. Gotta love armchair CEOs who think that being on here makes them qualified.

The way some people seemingly think on here that once the sick pax is off the airplane, close the door and go.

All of the background coordinating takes time - facilitation (a fancy word for customs), medical response for the sick pax, maybe the crew had to write up something mechanical which meant contract maintenance had to respond, or get an oxygen bottle replaced, or a first aid kit or certain injectible medicines in the FAK replaced. Then getting the flight plan on file with ATC, fuel and fuel authorizations. And all of the above under the gun because once the crew times out, your medical diversion is dead in the water with crew duty issues.

2-1/2 hours seems like a decent turn around - especially at a place where people dont wear your airlines' uniform.



I've previously done crew scheduling. Working with dispatchers and OPS managers on diversions in the past, 2.5 hours seems totally reasonable for something like this.


Absolutely right to all said above. If you think 2-2.5 hours on the ground at either KEF or JFK is a long time, you need to see inside an airline operations center during a diversion of a long-haul, widebody aircraft.

First of all, you don't know how long paramedics/responders needed to initiate treatment and prepare the passenger for transport to a hospital. Let's say five minutes from parking brake set to paramedics onboard, perhaps anywhere from ten to thirty minutes until they're in an ambulance and on their way. During which time the crew will be ensuring the incident is properly handled before focusing on getting back in the air.

It can take an hour or more just to get a new flight plan, coordinate with crew scheduling, ensure fuel and any necessary ground handling are fully taken care of at a diversion airport, among other tasks. Keep in mind that it takes a number of people just to park and pushback an aircraft that size, and when an airport has minutes notice, it can take time to call people in, or pull people off of other tasking to assist.

That doesn't take into account a whole new set of weather conditions that need to be dealt with: Perhaps weather at KEF and/or JFK caused a slight delay in one way or another--takeoff or landing minimums, ATC flow into JFK, maybe the aircraft had to be deiced in KEF--that alone can take 30-40 minutes for an aircraft that size, especially somewhere like KEF that doesn't have the traffic to justify top-of-the-line deicing equipment and dedicated staff.

...Oh, and JFK and LAX are both slot-controlled, which always has to be considered in these situations.

AA did a great job, this went as smoothly as could be expected.
Now you're flying smart
 
OB1504
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:19 am

dispatchguy wrote:
Has anyone on here been in a major airline control center as an employee? Whether a dispatcher, ops controller, aircraft router, crew controller, load planner, etc?


I work in one...

...which is how I know that jumbojet has no clue what major airline ops are like nor does he have any idea what he's talking about.

2 hours is commendable.
 
BestWestern
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:43 pm

One other airline fanboi poster is trolling.

I've had one inflight medical diversion. Domestic flight on a 738 From shenyang to Shenzhen via wuhan.

Flight diverted into Zhengzhou due to heart attack of the only other non Chinese on the flight. We were 90 minutes in Zhengzhou due to paperwork and other medical stuff. Considering this was a 737, domestic, online diversion point, it took 90 minutes.

Plane took off, landed wuhan. We had missed slot so we're delayed another hour there.

All of this on a domestic flight within China. No customs or immigration or multi jurisdiction paperwork. Same crew. Secondary airports and 737.

Shit happens. Life goes on.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
jumbojet
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Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Its not trolling, its called expecting more from what is supposed to be the words biggest and greatest airline. What AA should be doing is focusing on working harder, getting that plane turned as quickly as possible and not making excuses. Just reading about all the 'possible' excuses above is ridiculous. I hear excuses all the time from my son why his homework wasn't done. If AA had competent management, which they don't, then it would not have taken so long at JFK to turn this plane. 'Plain and simple'. Stop the excuses. If this was my airline, those passengers on the plane would not have waited all that time. To many lackadaisical workers, would fire them all. Let them find a job where its OK to be lazy. Maybe McDonalds? I have said what I had to say, AA's abysmal customer service record speaks for itself.
 
expert7700
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:30 am

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:51 pm

thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

AA did a stunning job with both diversion times. Clearly in KEF issues suchas medical clearance, restock med. supplies, refuel, and deice could take 2hrs on a GOOD day for *ANY* airline

And 2hrs on the ground in JFK? Absolutely amazing since in order to allow any passengers to be voluntarily offloaded in JFK, the ENTIRE planeload of people hs to get their bags and reclear customs/security. Heck I've been delayed by other airlines in NYC airports, sometimes pushing 2hrs just due to conjestion... In GOOD weather.

Many airlined won't divert for a recrew-they will just cancel the flight and rush the crew to a hotel for 24hrs while passengers fight with themselves and airport workers over the paltry # of hotel rooms/cots/sleeping cots.

Then you have carriers like Frontier in the US that even added to their CoC saying if a passenger falls ill, that passenger is resonsibke for and we sent a bill for fuel dumped or consumed in the diversion, worker overtime/salaries, and cost of reaccomodating or overnighting the other passengers.
 
DDR
Posts: 1724
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:05 pm

thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

I had forgot about the ignore feature. Thanks for the reminder. I agree with you, the thread is now much better.
 
rutankrd
Posts: 3025
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:08 am

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:11 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Its not trolling, its called expecting more from what is supposed to be the words biggest and greatest airline. What AA should be doing is focusing on is working harder, getting that plane turned as quickly as possible and not making excuses. Just reading about all the 'possible' excuses above is ridiculous. I hear excuses all the time from my son why his homework wasn't done. If AA had competent management, which they don't, then it would not have taken so long at JFK to turn this plane. 'Plain and simple'. Stop the excuses. If this was my airline, those passengers on the plane would not have waited all that time. To many lackadaisical workers, would fire them all. Let them find a job where its OK to be lazy. Maybe McDonalds? I have said what I had to say, AA's abysmal customer service record speaks for itself.


You got a magic wand at all ?

Much in-fact most of the diversion issues are out the control of the airline.

How many here have to point out the complexity.

1 Emergency diversion due medical to off line airport including what appears to be a considerable back track.- probably to reduce weight whilst expediting the landing - Not an easy assessment in and of its self.

2 Get on ground and have medics do their job which is to assess and stabilise distressed patient sufficiently to evacuate to Hospital/Clinic.
Sort paperwork for patient transfer.

3 Locate and off load luggage

4 If traveling with partner also off load them and their luggage.

5 At same time/ parallel to this crew has to deal with ground agent (AA will have a contract with one a Keflavik -Its an official diversity airport even if off line)

6 Sort and confirm payments for fuel and other services .

7 File a new flight plan from Keflavik and (Out of their control) wait confirmation of a new JFK slot and gate - This could easily be several HOURs

So to be offloaded and airborne in 2 hours is indeed commendable.

Now to the US entry point choice HQ and crew will have had to assess this VERY carefully - choices may have included Boston or Chicago as well as JFK.

Risks will have included crew hours remaining , availability of replacement crew and rostering, slots and gate availability and onward connection opportunities for passengers effected.

US government immigration entry restrictions also to be considered (out of airline control) - The requirement to offload and clear at first point of entry.

So they chose JFK an airport with 77W crew good thinking imho.

However consider this JFK is slot bound with flow control pretty much all evening . T8 has only so many gates able to handle the 77W
AA or any other will have to apply for a further new departure slot and at heavily congested airport (out of their control) this could be hours. A typical scheduled heavy departure at JFK this time of day can be forty minutes from push for any airline.

So again to off load passengers and luggage . Separate those to be re-routed . Re-load containers and re-board meeting a new slot time a further two hours hardly seems excessive to be honest.

its certainly not your asserted and potentially libellous critic of AA management or in deed their workers and sub-contractors actions.

I am at a loss to fully understand your aggressive and thoughtlessness given the nature of any medical diversion - The ill passengers safety and life is far more important than inconveniencing a few hundred with a delayed arrival at their destination imho.

Oh perhaps I am not actually - as you said you seem more concerned with the compensation element than the ill patient - Shame on you
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1730
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:19 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Its not trolling, its called expecting more from what is supposed to be the words biggest and greatest airline. What AA should be doing is focusing on working harder, getting that plane turned as quickly as possible and not making excuses. Just reading about all the 'possible' excuses above is ridiculous. I hear excuses all the time from my son why his homework wasn't done. If AA had competent management, which they don't, then it would not have taken so long at JFK to turn this plane. 'Plain and simple'. Stop the excuses. If this was my airline, those passengers on the plane would not have waited all that time. To many lackadaisical workers, would fire them all. Let them find a job where its OK to be lazy. Maybe McDonalds? I have said what I had to say, AA's abysmal customer service record speaks for itself.



Simply put, you are just wrong in this situation. It's best to quit now with your tail between your legs. Quit digging a hole. As others have said, when a diversion like this takes place, 2 - 2.5 hours is very reasonable. I, like you, do not work in the industry either, but if all I suffered was this delay after everything that has to take place to get the plane back in the air, I'd be very pleased.

Get off your dumb soapbox brutha.

I also strive for excellence and am always looking at ways to make things more efficient, etc -- but your rant is simply goofy in this situation.
Whatever
 
User avatar
Rajahdhani
Posts: 565
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:22 pm

expert7700 wrote:
thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

AA did a stunning job with both diversion times. Clearly in KEF issues suchas medical clearance, restock med. supplies, refuel, and deice could take 2hrs on a GOOD day for *ANY* airline


Here here, on both counts. 2 hours on the ground, at KEF is past decent, but good - considering the circumstances. A lesser airline might have ended the day's journey right there, if they did not have a hub 'near-by'.

expert7700 wrote:
Many airlines won't divert for a recrew-they will just cancel the flight and rush the crew to a hotel for 24hrs while passengers fight with themselves and airport workers over the paltry # of hotel rooms/cots/sleeping cots.


My thought, about why they continued to JFK (and did not, after landing at KEF - just end there due to crew not being able to continue the scheduled -LAX run) actually demonstrates one of the positives of having a hub there/in the region, capable of handling the 777 (and having the supporting crews/resources to handle it). Had it been a smaller airline, and the hub too far away from KEF to fly legally, those passengers would have been stuck at KEF. JFK is almost an ideal solution, from the AA perspective - because it can easily connect any of those passengers, to other points in the network to minimize their loss of time due to the KEF delay.

expert7700 wrote:
Then you have carriers like Frontier in the US that even added to their CoC saying if a passenger falls ill, that passenger is resonsibke for and we sent a bill for fuel dumped or consumed in the diversion, worker overtime/salaries, and cost of reaccomodating or overnighting the other passengers.


In this case, though - who is 'responsible'? How do EU and US laws differ, in this case? I am just trying to get some bearing on how an EU based flight would treat a 'medical emergency', and how that would differ if the flight originated in the U.S.
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:43 pm

DDR wrote:
thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

I had forgot about the ignore feature. Thanks for the reminder. I agree with you, the thread is now much better.



How do you use that feature in this new forum? I couldn't find it previously. I remember when diversion threads were about photographers going to that airport to take a rare photograph or two and discussion about the landing without having to find yet another annoying tirade from someone who probably didn't get a hotel voucher during a weather delay 3 years ago and can't seem to get past that. Point me to the ignore button, please!
 
D L X
Posts: 12672
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:56 pm

I'd be curious to see JJ's list of to-do items in a medical diversion at a foreign outstation, and how he'd manage to do it in under 2 hours. Or at least have JJ give us a list of the actual things that AA performed too slowly at KEF and JFK. You know, something more than just "whaaaaaa, whatever it was it it took too long."

But I don't want to feed his sense of self-importance.
 
luftaom
Posts: 782
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 4:29 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:57 pm

Corpsnerd09 wrote:
DDR wrote:
thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

I had forgot about the ignore feature. Thanks for the reminder. I agree with you, the thread is now much better.



How do you use that feature in this new forum? I couldn't find it previously. I remember when diversion threads were about photographers going to that airport to take a rare photograph or two and discussion about the landing without having to find yet another annoying tirade from someone who probably didn't get a hotel voucher during a weather delay 3 years ago and can't seem to get past that. Point me to the ignore button, please!


Click on the hyperlink on the poster's name (so for me you'd click on Luftaom on the left hand side of any post I have made). Their profile will pop up. Click 'add foe' and you're in business.

It's a very welcome addition to the forums and allows users to exercise some self-help in relation to the declining standards and utter rubbish which has become the norm in recent years.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
User avatar
SRQKEF
Posts: 1947
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:10 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:38 pm

jumbojet wrote:
very lackadaisical


jumbojet wrote:
lackadaisical


jumbojet wrote:
very lackadaisical


jumbojet wrote:
lackadaisical attitude


jumbojet wrote:
lackadaisical


jumbojet wrote:
lackadaisical workers


Did somebody just learn a new word? :sarcastic:

I find it really depressing for you if you've really got nothing else to do with your time than come up with ridiculous rants on AA threads. Hopefully you find some better use of your time...

Back on topic, weather has been cold here in the last few days so the aircraft definitely needed de-icing. Considering all the obstacles the crew faced, 2.5 hrs is a pretty good job.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
Corpsnerd09
Posts: 575
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:05 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:49 pm

luftaom wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
DDR wrote:
thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

I had forgot about the ignore feature. Thanks for the reminder. I agree with you, the thread is now much better.



How do you use that feature in this new forum? I couldn't find it previously. I remember when diversion threads were about photographers going to that airport to take a rare photograph or two and discussion about the landing without having to find yet another annoying tirade from someone who probably didn't get a hotel voucher during a weather delay 3 years ago and can't seem to get past that. Point me to the ignore button, please!


Click on the hyperlink on the poster's name (so for me you'd click on Luftaom on the left hand side of any post I have made). Their profile will pop up. Click 'add foe' and you're in business.

It's a very welcome addition to the forums and allows users to exercise some self-help in relation to the declining standards and utter rubbish which has become the norm in recent years.


Thanks! I appreciate it.
 
nikeherc
Posts: 670
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:40 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:32 pm

luftaom wrote:
Corpsnerd09 wrote:
DDR wrote:
thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

I had forgot about the ignore feature. Thanks for the reminder. I agree with you, the thread is now much better.



How do you use that feature in this new forum? I couldn't find it previously. I remember when diversion threads were about photographers going to that airport to take a rare photograph or two and discussion about the landing without having to find yet another annoying tirade from someone who probably didn't get a hotel voucher during a weather delay 3 years ago and can't seem to get past that. Point me to the ignore button, please!


Click on the hyperlink on the poster's name (so for me you'd click on Luftaom on the left hand side of any post I have made). Their profile will pop up. Click 'add foe' and you're in business.

It's a very welcome addition to the forums and allows users to exercise some self-help in relation to the declining standards and utter rubbish which has become the norm in recent years.


Thanks! I just used the FOE feature and it is the best I've felt while on this forum for quite some time. Sometimes it's fun to be engaged in a spirited discussion, and sometimes it's great just block out the noise.
DC6 to 777 and most things in between
 
grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: AA in KEF

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:59 pm

DDR wrote:
thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

I had forgot about the ignore feature. Thanks for the reminder. I agree with you, the thread is now much better.


Thanks I didn't know about the friend Foe option. I found it now.
 
BatonOps
Posts: 730
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 12:00 am

Re: AA in KEF

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:10 am

grbauc wrote:
DDR wrote:
thread reads much better now that I added jumbojet to ignore list.

I had forgot about the ignore feature. Thanks for the reminder. I agree with you, the thread is now much better.


Thanks I didn't know about the friend Foe option. I found it now.


I will also be hiding "jumbojet" He seriously needs to get a life and stop being a douche.
 
BerenErchamion
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 12:44 am

Re: AA in KEF

Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:07 am

jumbojet wrote:
pull more workers to help the flight.


Yeah, because it's not like they're needed for the regularly scheduled traffic or anything...

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