ZeeZoo
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I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:15 am

https://www.airliners.net/photo/British- ... 6/115236/L

It's dated Mar' 1976 yet " On 31 March 1974, both the BOAC and BEA were dissolved, and their operations merged to form British Airways" and the British Airways Negus livery had come in by '74.

What's going on here? It's called the "BOAC-BA transition livery" but it's all the way 2 years after the disolving of BOAC and plenty BA 747s were in the Negus livery. And then even after it still sported the BOAC livery: http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-747i/u ... -awni.html (bar the tail). Was there something special about the jet that it never went full Negus and hung around in the BOAC colours for a few years after?

Here it is in May '76:

Image

Here it is in Jan '80 (anyone familiar with the Negus and BOAC livery can see it's a combinatin of the two):

Image
 
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longhauler
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:27 am

It is all matter of economics. Likely, British Airways was formed shortly after delivery of this aircraft to BOAC, and normal painting cycles would have quite some time before a repaint in the current livery.

This aircraft is shown in 1976 as you state. By March 1977, the tail was painted, and by Summer 1980 it was in the current livery. It really isn't as urgent as some people think.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:36 am

Sometimes hybrid liveries languish for several years. Here is a Continental 727 in the People Express livery a full eight years after the merger.

Image

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/airliners/5/0/2/0011205.jpg?v=v40
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
ZeeZoo
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:36 am

longhauler wrote:
It is all matter of economics. Likely, British Airways was formed shortly after delivery of this aircraft to BOAC, and normal painting cycles would have quite some time before a repaint in the current livery.

This aircraft is shown in 1976 as you state. By March 1977, the tail was painted, and by Summer 1980 it was in the current livery. It really isn't as urgent as some people think.

Delivered to BOAC in Jan '72. What you've said makes sense, thanks! Surprised it took a while, 6 years, would have thought they would have gotten a move on quicker.

Does AA still have any unpainted (that aren't for the purpose of nostalgia "retro") flying?

Funny thing is is that once it adopted the Negus livery in '80, it was shipped off to TWA less than a year later. Ha!
 
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richcam427
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:46 am

ZeeZoo wrote:
longhauler wrote:
It is all matter of economics. Likely, British Airways was formed shortly after delivery of this aircraft to BOAC, and normal painting cycles would have quite some time before a repaint in the current livery.

This aircraft is shown in 1976 as you state. By March 1977, the tail was painted, and by Summer 1980 it was in the current livery. It really isn't as urgent as some people think.

Delivered to BOAC in Jan '72. What you've said makes sense, thanks! Surprised it took a while, 6 years, would have thought they would have gotten a move on quicker.

Does AA still have any unpainted (that aren't for the purpose of nostalgia "retro") flying?

Funny thing is is that once it adopted the Negus livery in '80, it was shipped off to TWA less than a year later. Ha!


American still has plenty of aircraft yet to be repainted, and the MD-80s won't be repainted into the new livery.
 
ZeeZoo
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:51 am

Whilst we're at it, anyone know what is going on with this livery: https://www.flickr.com/photos/rays-pics/15463196573/

Thanks!
 
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eta unknown
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:10 am

There's an error on the pic details- it's not G-AWNF. It's G-BDPZ which was an Aer Lingus leased 747 that flew in this hybrid EI/BA scheme. The aircraft was usually dedicated to the LHR-ORD flight. At the time MIA & ORD were served from the two longhaul exceptions that flew from LHR Terminal 1 instead of 3.
 
juliuswong
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:22 am

eta unknown wrote:
There's an error on the pic details- it's not G-AWNF. It's G-BDPZ which was an Aer Lingus leased 747 that flew in this hybrid EI/BA scheme. The aircraft was usually dedicated to the LHR-ORD flight. At the time MIA & ORD were served from the two longhaul exceptions that flew from LHR Terminal 1 instead of 3.

More pictures and the airframe history here: http://www.british-caledonian.com/BCal_G-BDPZ.html
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ZeeZoo
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:36 am

eta unknown wrote:
There's an error on the pic details- it's not G-AWNF. It's G-BDPZ which was an Aer Lingus leased 747 that flew in this hybrid EI/BA scheme. The aircraft was usually dedicated to the LHR-ORD flight. At the time MIA & ORD were served from the two longhaul exceptions that flew from LHR Terminal 1 instead of 3.

Fantastic, exactly why Airliners.net can be so precious!
 
reltney
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:30 am

Great photos. Love the hybrid schemes.


Best oddballs were the X PanAm DC-8-33 Pan Am sold to Delta, and they had to fly them in the PanAm livery for a specific amount of time before the purchasing airline could repaint the aircraft. I flew on a Delta -33 a few times one year still wearing the FULL PanAm livery while it was fully owned by Delta between Houston and Miami. I can remember the PA the pilot made why it said PanAm on the outside. The interchange planes were a different story as each airline flew the other airlines planes. In 1972-73ish I had a PanAm ticket but was on a Delta 747 in Heathrow flying to IAD as part of the Delta/PanAm interchange..

There are photos of PanAm DC-8 62s In PanAm livery. They never flew the -62 so I would believe they were in an interchange agreement but the plane wor the PanAm livery as part of the agreement.

There are some good Contential DC-7 photos with United on the tail as part of an interchange agreement out there.

Some one with better recall fill in the blanks about what I have said please..

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skipness1E
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:06 am

1970s Britain was not awash with cash and BA were heavily loss making. Although rebranding began in 1972 with the first BA 707 to be repainted for the lauch, G-AWNK would remain hybrid BOAC until it left for TWA......in 1980.
 
marky
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:50 am

eta unknown wrote:
There's an error on the pic details- it's not G-AWNF. It's G-BDPZ which was an Aer Lingus leased 747 that flew in this hybrid EI/BA scheme. The aircraft was usually dedicated to the LHR-ORD flight. At the time MIA & ORD were served from the two longhaul exceptions that flew from LHR Terminal 1 instead of 3.


Makes sense in theory, except it's not correct! The OP's three pictures all show 'NI' on the nosewheel door and tail, so it isn't G-BDPZ. If you look at the pictures of G-BDPZ in the database the livery is different
 
rutankrd
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:07 am

Many of the post merger planes flew in hybrid liveries for years.

A few Tridents retained the BEA stripe with Nagus tails and never got the white/blue fuselage colour at all



BTW
The Aer Lingus lease differed from the BOAC curved cheek line on those owned 747-136s



G-AWNF in Hybrid livery at Melbourne in 1976 - Note the Pan AM with a bridge on the "wrong side behind !



Same plane in BA Maintenance with fusalage striped ready for full paint in 1977



Back then the process was time consuming BA had just a few paint bays at Heathrow no Cardiff and there weren't the sub contractors like Air Livery in existence to help in any meaningful way.
 
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Balerit
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:13 am

Most airlines only repaint their aircraft on D checks, which on the B747 was five years, so maybe this was the case here?
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
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RRTrent
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:16 am

I would imagine that today's painting technology is a lot cheaper and more advanced than in the 70's. So while getting an aircraft painted today is still a big job, its not as big a job as it was 40 years ago. It was common to see multiple variations of livery's on aircraft of the same fleet. Even as recently as the late 90's Delta were flying around with 3 liveries on their fleet.

Also at one point, EI had 3 747's in several different livery's, including the one above. There was also a hybrid Air Jamaica livery before all were eventually painted in the full green livery, only for one to then be painted all white with a shamrock on the tail until its retirement in the mid 90's
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:05 pm

skipness1E wrote:
1970s Britain was not awash with cash and BA were heavily loss making. Although rebranding began in 1972 with the first BA 707 to be repainted for the lauch, G-AWNK would remain hybrid BOAC until it left for TWA......in 1980.


Are you sure about that date? I used to buy the weekly Aviation News (anyone remember that?) and would put a bet on seeing the new livery being revealed in 1974. :scratchchin:
 
Cunard
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:12 pm

The 'new' British Airways was officially inaugurated on the 1 January 1974'although a Government body called the British Airways Project was set up in 1972 to oversea the amalgamation of British European Airways and the British Overseas Airways Corporation in to the newly formed British Airways.

The first aircraft painted in the corporate image of British Airways was a Boeing 707-336 and was revealed on 2 January 1974 in the former BOAC maintenance area.
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theobcman
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:43 pm

A bit like LH's retro 748i, BA should definitely put this BOAC/BA scheme onto a 747-400. Would look amazing !
 
Bricktop
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:51 pm

theobcman wrote:
A bit like LH's retro 748i, BA should definitely put this BOAC/BA scheme onto a 747-400. Would look amazing !

The old BOAC livery was a winner for sure.
 
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Braybuddy
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:53 pm

Cunard wrote:
The first aircraft painted in the corporate image of British Airways was a Boeing 707-336 and was revealed on 2 January 1974 in the former BOAC maintenance area.

Ahhhh . . . thanks for that! Good to know the old brain cells are still ticking over . . :D
 
vv701
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:48 am

From Gaskell, Keith, 'British Airways - Its History, Aircraft and Liveries', Airlife 1999, p.93:

'A new livery for the emerging airline was announced as early as July 1973 and began to appear in September . . . The first aircraft to be rolled out was BOAC Boeing 707 G-AXXY and others soon followed, with Viscount G-APEY of Northeast and newly delivered 747 G-AWNN appearing in early November 1973 and Trident Three G-AWZC in December.'

<photoid:2380619>
 
Cunard
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:15 am

vv701

Thanks for that correction
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Dominion301
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:55 pm

DL_Mech wrote:
Sometimes hybrid liveries languish for several years. Here is a Continental 727 in the People Express livery a full eight years after the merger.

Image

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/photos/airliners/5/0/2/0011205.jpg?v=v40


Yup repaints can take quite a long time. I remember when AC introduced the Eurowhite/green tailed maple leaf livery in fall of 1993 (I still have the winter '93 timetable where it first appeared). AC hadn't even finished painting some of the single red cheatline AC tails into the '89 red/maroon cheatline (personally my all-time favourite AC livery) by fall of '93. And then it took until fall of '98 before the last of the double red cheatlines to get painted into AC livery. Also, I think it took until fall of 2003 before the last of CP's birds were painted into full AC livery. In fact 1 732 stayed in Proud Wings livery until around 2006 thanks to Canadian North becoming a fully independent airline separate from AC.
 
shankly
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:17 pm

skipness1E wrote:
1970s Britain was not awash with cash and BA were heavily loss making. Although rebranding began in 1972 with the first BA 707 to be repainted for the lauch, G-AWNK would remain hybrid BOAC until it left for TWA......in 1980.

Flew on G-AWNK 28th June 1978, Heathrow - Bermuda....my first "jumbo jet" flight. I'll shall add a near 40 year late note to my log that the aircraft had the hybrid BOAC/BA livery
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JannEejit
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:10 pm

G-AWNK actually ended it's BA service career with the fat 1981 'British' titles on top of that former BOAC hybrid scheme. So you 'might' say it had three liveries, of sorts.
Last edited by JannEejit on Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:19 pm

Cunard wrote:
The 'new' British Airways was officially inaugurated on the 1 January 1974'although a Government body called the British Airways Project was set up in 1972 to oversea the amalgamation of British European Airways and the British Overseas Airways Corporation in to the newly formed British Airways.

The first aircraft painted in the corporate image of British Airways was a Boeing 707-336 and was revealed on 2 January 1974 in the former BOAC maintenance area.


That 1972 government comission was 'The Edwards Committee' and created as a study into streamlining the UK civil aviation market. One of it's recommendations was the merger of BOAC, and BEA. This little 40th anniversary thread I ran elsewhere, might prove interesting. I used my 1:400 scale model collection as illustration...

http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/1-4 ... rways.html
 
CF-CPI
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:22 pm

Fascinating thread. As someone mentioned, cash may have been short, all of this coming at a time of a bad economy in Britain, compounded by the oil crisis of 1973 and terrible recession in 1974/75.

IIRC, British Airways circa 1984 made a much more concerted effort to apply the then-new Landor scheme in a more timely fashion, specifically citing the head-spinning array of hybrid schemes that arose in the 1970s after the BOAC/BEA combination as being detrimental to the brand.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:03 pm

eta unknown wrote:
It's G-BDPZ which was an Aer Lingus leased 747 that flew in this hybrid EI/BA scheme.


Ah yes 'Paddy Zulu' as it was referred to amongst BA Engineering types...
 
tonyban
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:20 pm

Growing up on Waye Avenue, Cranford, I used to cycle to TBC during the weekends just to look at these beauties in the early 70s. Thank you for
rekindling my past.
 
ZeeZoo
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:37 pm

Bricktop wrote:
theobcman wrote:
A bit like LH's retro 748i, BA should definitely put this BOAC/BA scheme onto a 747-400. Would look amazing !

The old BOAC livery was a winner for sure.

They did do a 747 retro livery a few decades back in '98

Image

http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-747i/u ... -awna.html
 
richierich
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:59 pm

ZeeZoo wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
theobcman wrote:
A bit like LH's retro 748i, BA should definitely put this BOAC/BA scheme onto a 747-400. Would look amazing !

The old BOAC livery was a winner for sure.

They did do a 747 retro livery a few decades back in '98

Image

http://www.aussieairliners.org/b-747i/u ... -awna.html


I don't think the BOAC retro livery ever flew a revenue service though. It was just before the plane was decommissioned and sent off for its final flight, a somewhat wasteful exercise in the minds of many. But rumor is the paint was lying around, and it got some publicity, so maybe it made sense.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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JannEejit
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Re: I'm a little confused about this BA-BOAC 747 livery

Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:05 pm

Plus it wasn't a proper BOAC livery, just a stripped down Landor with BOAC legend applied.

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