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jfkflyer
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What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:21 am

With the 50-60 seat family of airlines such as erj 140/45, and CRj200 becoming less profitable to own and operate and maintain by the minute, which airlines can profitably operate these? will the freighter conversion of the CRj-200 find much success? would some consider the CRJ-200/erj-145 somewhat underpowered to replace aircraft in it's size?
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kcrwflyer
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:44 am

Most will go to the desert, as most have. Airlines can make them work in low demand / high fare situations, but that's really their remaining bread and butter.

I can't speak for the freight world, but these planes have been widely available for years, used, and there have been very few freighter conversions. Both planes have enough power to do what they were built to do. Most freighters fill up (space) before they near their max payload (weight)
 
FWAERJ
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:51 am

For the ERJ-145, the future is a cheap bizjet. Just buy a gently used one, add some auxiliary tanks in the cargo hold, refurbish the interior, and you've got a cheaper Legacy 650.

And that's what smart businesses are doing.
B721/722/731/732/733/735/73G/738/739/742/752/753/762/763, A300/319/320, DC-9/10, MD-82/83/88/90, ERJ-140/145, CRJ-200/700, Q200, SF340, AS350
 
jfkflyer
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:53 am

FWAERJ wrote:
For the ERJ-145, the future is a cheap bizjet. Just buy a gently used one, add some auxiliary tanks in the cargo hold, refurbish the interior, and you've got a cheaper Legacy 650.

And that's what smart businesses are doing.


What airlines can operate them profitably?
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jfkflyer
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:54 am

kcrwflyer wrote:
Most will go to the desert, as most have. Airlines can make them work in low demand / high fare situations, but that's really their remaining bread and butter.

I can't speak for the freight world, but these planes have been widely available for years, used, and there have been very few freighter conversions. Both planes have enough power to do what they were built to do. Most freighters fill up (space) before they near their max payload (weight)


Low demand high fare? some examples? PAWA ordered 6. It will ultimately be a failure, as they are trading capacity (MD82/3) for Connectivity and frequency (Cr2)
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aeromoe
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:56 am

Beer cans
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
FlyUSAir
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:59 am

Interesting to see what will happen with airlines that operate them solely (like Air Wisconsin, Piedmont) and the routes they serve (larger aircraft, less frequencies or a cut in service).
A319/A320/A321/A333 712/732/733/734/735/737/738/752/753/762/763 C172 CR2/CR7/CR9 E145/E170/E175/E190
MD82/MD83/MD88/MD90 Q100/Q400
 
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SRQKEF
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:46 am

Image

No place for them in today's market, even with low fuel prices.
Nothing compares to taking off in an empty 757 with full thrust!
 
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csturdiv
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:07 am

Jetgo in Australia might pick up a few, they did get a 140 recently. They are an all ERJ operator and if they expand routes (like Sydney) they could use some more.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
masseybrown
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:57 am

A small airline called Ultimate Shuttle, which operates four routes out of Cincinnati close-to-downtown Lunken and two routes from Cleveland's Burke downtown airport currently flies nine 328Js and one E135 is in the market for more E135s. They operate 30 seat public charter flights at prices slightly less than full coach five days a week on business routes. They seem to be doing well and are planning additional routes. As long as ULCC prices aren't prevailing in their markets and fuel stays reasonably cheap , used 50-seaters still have some utility.
 
dc10lover
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:06 am

Someone will turn them into an all business class airliner. Each row will be a window, isle, window, isle type seating arrangement. There is no seat right in front of you. Plenty of leg room. (Crj200 jets)
Last edited by dc10lover on Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
Candid76
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:51 am

They work very well in certain niche markets. ERJ145s are very useful for corporate shuttles and ad-hoc charter, particularly in the sport market. Most football (soccer) teams in the UK use them and they are effectively the default aircraft type for this type of work. The CRJ200 is less attractive - they are generally older and I think more expensive to operate, their main advantage is their relatively long range.

For normal scheduled service operations it is different, particularly when fuel prices are higher. Scope clauses in some areas help their cause.
 
GRJGeorge
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:36 am

Airlink of South Africa recently purchased 11 ERJ-140s from the US, first two delivered last month with the rest to join during 2017...this is in addition to 18 ERJ-135s operating for Airlink...and they're doing quite well. (Don't be misled by their codesharing and brand with SAA, as Airlink is a private company, operating as feeder for the SAA group)

Several airlines in Africa/Southern Africa have over the last few years acquired some RJ's, Air Namibia upgraded their B1900s to ERJ135s. CemAir have acquired a lot of CRJ100s and CRJ200s from US carriers, some still to be delivered, where they operate it under their own brand on domestic South African routes and also leasing out to other regional airlines (Air Botswana, ProFlight Zambia and new airline Rainbow Air in Zimbabwe). Same goes for Solenta Aviation group which have several subidiaries around Africa, recently acquiring a stake in FastJet, but also leasing out to various airlines in South Africa (FlyBlueCrane, SA Express) and other African countries with mainly ERJ145s, but also some ERJ135s and more recently more ATRs.
 
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DannyT
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:30 pm

Embraers are preferred in countries with developing air travel as they're cheaper to build and quite safe to fly. Much better than the russian low cost alternatives.
Promoting future airport solutions with experts at Aviation Insider
 
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atypical
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:33 pm

masseybrown wrote:
A small airline called Ultimate Shuttle, which operates four routes out of Cincinnati close-to-downtown Lunken and two routes from Cleveland's Burke downtown airport currently flies nine 328Js and one E135 is in the market for more E135s. They operate 30 seat public charter flights at prices slightly less than full coach five days a week on business routes. They seem to be doing well and are planning additional routes. As long as ULCC prices aren't prevailing in their markets and fuel stays reasonably cheap , used 50-seaters still have some utility.


I do not believe that Ultimate Shuttle operates the ERJ and that is Ultimate Charters since the ERJ exceeds Ultimate Shuttle's operating weight restriction for scheduled service. The 328Jet is within the operating weight limitation and that is the only AC they provide scheduled services with. I believe they would need to upgrade their Operating Certificate to operate the ERJs for scheduled service. In any case I do not think that there are more than a few airlines like this and could never provide homes to a significant numbers or ERJs and CRJs.
Last edited by atypical on Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Mon Jan 09, 2017 11:36 pm

Sure you may see CRJ2's slowly disappear from the US market, but as long as fuel stays below 100/barrel, I'd imagine Delta will keep at least 75 to 100 around to operate into small markets. They actually had their wholly owned regional bring some out of storage in 2016.
From my cold, dead hands
 
DFW789ER
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:02 am

jfkflyer wrote:
FWAERJ wrote:
For the ERJ-145, the future is a cheap bizjet. Just buy a gently used one, add some auxiliary tanks in the cargo hold, refurbish the interior, and you've got a cheaper Legacy 650.

And that's what smart businesses are doing.


What airlines can operate them profitably?


He mentioned bizjets. Non-airline companies could pick up some. Not sure how many, but it has happened...
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: What will become of ERJ's and CRJ's?

Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:06 am

jfkflyer wrote:
kcrwflyer wrote:
Most will go to the desert, as most have. Airlines can make them work in low demand / high fare situations, but that's really their remaining bread and butter.

I can't speak for the freight world, but these planes have been widely available for years, used, and there have been very few freighter conversions. Both planes have enough power to do what they were built to do. Most freighters fill up (space) before they near their max payload (weight)


Low demand high fare? some examples? PAWA ordered 6. It will ultimately be a failure, as they are trading capacity (MD82/3) for Connectivity and frequency (Cr2)


Out of IAH, some examples of lower demand but higher fares would be DSM, LEX, and CRW. Those flights regularly sell fares over $500 per direction. Also IAH-Smaller Cities in Mexico.

The ERJ definitely serves its purpose on markets like that. They aren't big enough for larger aircraft, but the fares are so dang high that they definitely need service.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!

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