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TN486
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Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:05 am

An interesting article. Note QANTAS tops the list, and also the opinion that QANTAS is the worlds most experienced airline (please don't shoot the messenger).
http://www.9news.com.au/National/2017/0 ... ar-running
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
743Flyer
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:37 am

BA should of been in the LCC section after all the 'enhancements' they have been making of late. :D

In all seriousness though, most of the list make sense; in past years, some of the airlines included have been a bit questionable.
 
RalXWB
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:50 am

I am surprised that LH is not higher on the ranking...
 
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qf789
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:50 am

Forum Moderator
 
beerockxs
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:34 am

RalXWB wrote:
I am surprised that LH is not higher on the ranking...

The article only says which airline is top, and which are in the top 20 in alphabetical order. We don't know where LH stands.
 
WIederling
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:54 am

Does the airline operate only Russian built aircraft?
If yes an additional star will be taken off the total.

double whammy :-)

Putin smiles? 5 more stars removed.
Murphy is an optimist
 
sevenair
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:58 am

Well, it's written by a QF fanboy Geoffrey Thomas so despite airlines not being ranked in order, he gives QF the top award. It keeps his FF miles topped up nicely. Apparently not killing passengers is how you base an airline's safety record!
 
743Flyer
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:06 am

sevenair wrote:
Well, it's written by a QF fanboy Geoffrey Thomas so despite airlines not being ranked in order, he gives QF the top award. It keeps his FF miles topped up nicely. Apparently not killing passengers is how you base an airline's safety record!


Isn't keeping passengers alive the very bare bones of safety?
 
sevenair
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:09 am

Keeping passengers safe from ANY harm is the very bare bones of safety, not just getting them to their destination alive.

JACDEC is far more impartial. It presents its finding based on facts, not on national pride and not on who the author is a fan of or not. JACDEC rates QF at #9.

Whilst it's lovely talking about history, what is happening today is far more relevant. Many airlines fly much a lot more passengers to a lot more diverse and challenging destinations that QF.
 
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blackbox67
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:28 am

Meaning airlines like Interjet will seriously get a downvoting just because they operate SSJ's ? Preposterous !.

And isnt it a bit weird that just of all airlines the Australian flag carrier sticks always on top, rated by an Australian company..omg, hope they are just kidding.
I wont say QF is not a safe airline, but this methodology seems to be biased & rigged.

Cant get it why airlineratings.com got so much media attention each year..I concede Jacdec got a different approach.
Last edited by blackbox67 on Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
usflyer123
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:31 am

Where the hell is El Al? I flown with both Qantas and El Al and I can definitely say LY is safer!
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
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KruegerFlaps
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:34 am

743Flyer wrote:
Isn't keeping passengers alive the very bare bones of safety?


Preventing or reducing risk to the aircraft, crew and passengers is central to aviation safety, not just keeping passengers alive. This involves a far different approach than simply saying, eveything's OK because so far no one has died.

There is a problem with these sorts of lists in that what has happened in the past is not necessarily indicative of what will happened in the future. For example, the QF32 incident is used to show how QF's attention to safety and training enabled the crew to land the plane without loss of life. But would a similar event have the same outcome in future and if not, would that question the safety regime at the airline simply because lives might be lost?

At the time questions were asked if Qantas knew about the risk, given that three months before the incident European air-safety regulators had issued an alert about abnormal wear in the Trent 900 engines installed on the A380. If Qantas knew of those warnings and made a wrong decision, does that mean the airline's safety rating should be down-graded? As it is, the question was dropped when Rolls Royce accepted responsibility.
Last edited by KruegerFlaps on Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves. - William Pitt Speech, 1783
 
WIederling
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:34 am

usflyer123 wrote:
Where the hell is El Al? I flown with both Qantas and El Al and I can definitely say LY is safer!


Armor that scald'st with safety? :-)
Murphy is an optimist
 
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blackbox67
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:38 am

Right. And what about Austrian Airlines ? The operate fatality-free since 1960 (!), also not worth to be mentioned ?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:42 am

sevenair wrote:
Keeping passengers safe from ANY harm is the very bare bones of safety, not just getting them to their destination alive.

JACDEC is far more impartial. It presents its finding based on facts, not on national pride and not on who the author is a fan of or not. JACDEC rates QF at #9.

Whilst it's lovely talking about history, what is happening today is far more relevant. Many airlines fly much a lot more passengers to a lot more diverse and challenging destinations that QF.


No one is impartial. Every independent rating agency has its bias based on personal/financial/national solidarity.

JACDEC data had some glaring mistakes which it never corrected, just to bend the results a bit I guess. Is Germanwings counted as Lufthansa Group or conveniently excluded using some rule.
All posts are just opinions.
 
sevenair
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:54 am

QF is given a 7 star product rating.

By their own criteria this is nonsense as carriersa re marked down for not having PTVs or free alcohol over 90 mins.

QF do have some free alcohol but only on very select flights, and not all aircraft have PTVs, or wifi.

Additionally 0 stars awarded if passengers have to purchase alcohol. Alcohol is only complimentary on select flights.

Oh and one star awarded for 'editor's discretionary'!

The list is very Australasian centric. Coincidence that that is where the author is is based? It's convenient that he spends time in Europe, SE Asia and the USA and airlines awarded are almost always from these places. Call me a cynic but it's very convenient that almost all of the airlines mentioned are from these locations.
 
VC10er
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:56 pm

I am someone who is NOT afraid of flying. I get the logic that I would have a much higher chance of injury or death in the car on the way to/from the airport, etc. So listing the airlines mentioned here is almost trivial to me because I feel very safe on any of them, from Qantas, Lufthansa, Singapore or United, etc. of course, fate is fate and even the finest can have an "incident". (I pray never) That being said, when the list of the worst comes out with scathing and detailed reports of safety issues with certain carriers that would indeed interest me... and potentially give me pause about flying whomever is getting slammed.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
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Loew
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:43 pm

I am surprised Ryanair is not on the list operating without a single fatality, yet flybe makes it on the list while its franchise partner Loganair had at least 4 fatal accidents during past 20 years. Also for example Air China is not on the list, yet it had single fatal accident during last 20 years, while for example Delta which is on the list had two fatal accidents during last 20 years.

airlineratings.com being a private enterprise, it is clear that only airlines willing to pay it for some sort of "safety audit" were evaluated. Im not calling this report biased, but it would be fair to at least name participating airlines in such an evaluation.
 
superjeff
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:56 pm

Loew wrote:
I am surprised Ryanair is not on the list operating without a single fatality, yet flybe makes it on the list while its franchise partner Loganair had at least 4 fatal accidents during past 20 years. Also for example Air China is not on the list, yet it had single fatal accident during last 20 years, while for example Delta which is on the list had two fatal accidents during last 20 years.



I don't think that the number of "fatal accidents" in "the last 20 years" is particularly relevant. I think that larger airlines have a greater "opportunity" to have such accidents. Perhaps fatalities per 1,000,000 passengers or something like that is more relevant.

I always heard that QANTAS had never had a fatality, which is apparently true. But they have had incidents and accidents, including, most recently, the A380 Flight 32 enroute SIN-SYD a couple of years ago. I also was doing some research on the Lockheed Constellation and found a Qantas L-749 which overran a runway in Mauritius back in the mid 1950's as well (thankfully no fatalities on either), but Qantas is not a mega-carrier in the same league as carriers like American, British Airways/IAG, AF/KLM, or Lufthansa, so has relatively fewer Revenue Passenger Kilometres than some of their peers.
 
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PHBVF
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:59 pm

I personally don't put that much faith in these kinds of reports.
The Dutch media picked up a lot about KLM being the safest European airline (JACDEC).
And despite the fact I believe KLM to be top notch, I do not think that incidents/accidents/fatalities are a good measure of safety. I think the way maintenance is organised and the company's culture are more important. "Just culture" for those among us who are in aviation.
Basically being able to, for example, return to the gate if you have a suspicion of a small failure, without being afraid to get punished for the costs incurred. Or a (inexperienced) first officer being able to speak up against a (experienced) captain. As long as these things are not included in these researches I think they are nothing but a "public pleaser"
Licensed 777/787 driver
 
RetiredWeasel
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:39 pm

BKK 1999
Image

Ya, I know I'm taking things out of context here....but shit happens.
 
ahj2000
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Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:44 pm

I'm just going to treat this like I do skytrax. Unless there's an IATA, ICAO, FAA, etc official document, these are all third parties who may or may not be biased/bribed
-Andrés Juánez
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:14 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
BKK 1999
Image

Ya, I know I'm taking things out of context here....but shit happens.

That's a very inconveniently placed tree.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:14 pm

RetiredWeasel wrote:
BKK 1999
Image

Ya, I know I'm taking things out of context here....but shit happens.

That's a very inconveniently placed tree.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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blackbox67
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:27 pm

yes it does..

Image

Image

Like many other flag carrier, QF is far away of being a saint in terms of accident / Incident free operations.
 
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PHBVF
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:18 am

TWA772LR wrote:
RetiredWeasel wrote:
BKK 1999
Image

Ya, I know I'm taking things out of context here....but shit happens.

That's a very inconveniently placed tree.


That's a very inconveniently placed aircraft :duck:
Licensed 777/787 driver
 
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Loew
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:40 pm

superjeff wrote:
Loew wrote:
I am surprised Ryanair is not on the list operating without a single fatality, yet flybe makes it on the list while its franchise partner Loganair had at least 4 fatal accidents during past 20 years. Also for example Air China is not on the list, yet it had single fatal accident during last 20 years, while for example Delta which is on the list had two fatal accidents during last 20 years.



I don't think that the number of "fatal accidents" in "the last 20 years" is particularly relevant. I think that larger airlines have a greater "opportunity" to have such accidents. Perhaps fatalities per 1,000,000 passengers or something like that is more relevant.

I always heard that QANTAS had never had a fatality, which is apparently true. But they have had incidents and accidents, including, most recently, the A380 Flight 32 enroute SIN-SYD a couple of years ago. I also was doing some research on the Lockheed Constellation and found a Qantas L-749 which overran a runway in Mauritius back in the mid 1950's as well (thankfully no fatalities on either), but Qantas is not a mega-carrier in the same league as carriers like American, British Airways/IAG, AF/KLM, or Lufthansa, so has relatively fewer Revenue Passenger Kilometres than some of their peers.


That could be fair point but its just not valid for presented examples. Ryanair has zero fatalities. It is larger airline than flybe. Flybe´s franchise partner, operating flights under flybe brand had 4 fatal accidents. Ryanair´s fatalities per what ever number of miles/flights/pax is zero. Flybe´s number is some x, which is higher than zero. Yet flybe is on the list, Ryanair is not. Thats my whole point.
 
delimit
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 1:40 pm

This topic seems to spring up annually. It's a little bit mind boggling to me that so many people who are interested in airlines haven't really comprehended how completely absurd these lists are. Flying is amazingly safe. You're safer sitting on an "unsafe" airline's plane than you are walking down the street. At that point, ranking individual airlines seems pointless.
 
Redd
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:02 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
Where the hell is El Al? I flown with both Qantas and El Al and I can definitely say LY is safer!



In which regard? They're both very safe airlines with records to prove it, but if you were to compare total number of fatalities then QF is safer.

El Al
https://aviation-safety.net/database/op ... p?var=6283

Qantas
https://aviation-safety.net/database/op ... p?var=4842
 
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AirPacific747
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:05 pm

Quite surprised to see SAS on the list, tbh. They had several incidents with the Dash 8 with landing gear that collapsed on landing (three independent incidents), there was the Linate crash, and the MD that crashed after takeoff out of ARN due to icing on the wings.

I also seem to recall a DC-10 in JFK that skidded off the runway.

I'm not saying that SAS was to blame for any of these incidents, but should that be taken into account?

Obviously the Linate accident was just purely bad luck, but it still involved a SAS aircraft.

Btw - proud to have flown for two of the world's ten safest low cost airlines :)
 
Jetty
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:18 pm

usflyer123 wrote:
Where the hell is El Al? I flown with both Qantas and El Al and I can definitely say LY is safer!

I've personally witnessed an El Al plane crashing down on an apartment building and can definitely say Qantas is safer! (at least for people on the ground)
 
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XAM2175
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:57 pm

superjeff wrote:
I always heard that QANTAS had never had a fatality, which is apparently true.


No. The exact claim is that Qantas have never in their entire history had an incident major enough to cause the hull-loss of a jet-powered aircraft, nor has any passenger died as a result of an incident involving a QF jet.

QF have however had twelve incidents resulting in passenger and/or crew fatalities, all of them between 1927 and 1951. Two of those incidents, both in 1942, were Short S.23 flying boats (owned by Imperial Airways and operated by Qantas under contract to the Australian Government) that were shot down by the Japanese air force.

Since 1951 QF have experienced one further hull-loss incident, that of Lockheed L-1049E VH-EAC in Mauritius in August 1960, with no fatalities.

The other two incidents since then that would have most likely resulted in a hull loss, those of VH-OJH's runway excursion at BKK and VH-OQA's uncontained turbine failure near SIN, both lead to massive repair efforts that saw both aircraft return to service.
 
usflyer123
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:08 pm

Redd wrote:
usflyer123 wrote:
Where the hell is El Al? I flown with both Qantas and El Al and I can definitely say LY is safer!



In which regard? They're both very safe airlines with records to prove it, but if you were to compare total number of fatalities then QF is safer.

El Al
https://aviation-safety.net/database/op ... p?var=6283

Qantas
https://aviation-safety.net/database/op ... p?var=4842


First of all, the LY crash was a freighter plane and most of the victims were killed on the ground. Also, LY interviews every pax at the check-in counter(which was a big headache, especially for a non-Israeli citizen like me) but it makes you feel safer. Also I know that on every LY flight, there is an undercover cop. I do have to say that QF is a great airline.
for most people the sky is the limit. for those who love aviation, the sky is home...
 
rbrunner
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Re: Worlds Safest Airlines

Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:20 pm

Some people surprised not to see this or that airline on the list. Personally, I was expecting to see TAP Portugal on the list. They used to be...

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